Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Timing beats speed and McClellan had timing in spades.
McClellan had a good enough chin to hang with Jackson twice.
Roy couldn't stop him, sooner or later McClellan would have tagged him.
McClellan had monster power at Middle. I think he would have got the job done
Timing beats speed if the speed doesn't have timing. Toney had both speed and timing, and he only hit Jones a few times with clean shots, same with Hopkins, both Hopkins and Toney were faster than McCellan, both were as good or better than McClellan and both couldn't time Roy, they couldn't land enough flush shots to stop Roy. You talked about the amateurs, but the amateurs are nothing like the pros, and Roy was nothing like he was as a pro. It wasn't McClellan who went to the Olympics in their weightclass, Roy was a lot easier to tag in the amateurs and he was more of a flurry type fighter than a strategic boxer. As for McClellan chin, how long did his fights with Julian Jackson last (combined 6 rounds?) And how many clean shots did Julian land? Roy dropped guys with better chins than McClellan, Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Reggie Johnson, were all guys who had been known for their iron jaws, but Roy hurt and stopped two of them, and he could have stopped Reggie as well if he really wanted to.
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
None of the Europeans would come over and Fight Roy... One time I believe it was before his fight with Bryant or another supermiddleweight when he was p4p #1 that Roy asked HBO to try and find a fight for him where it was 60-40% in his favor for most cases, and not a single guy from the UK would fight him in the States. Roy never duked anyone... its just these guys weren't willing to come over to get humiliated (like Ricky Hatton) for anything less than a 50/50 split. Benn would never fight Roy, and wouldn't have stood a chance, Eubanks would have foughten Roy for a 50/50 split ,but he didn't deserve it, Collins wouldn't truly consider fighitng Roy, And Calzaghe wasn't willing to fight Roy at 175, in the states, for 60/40 spli in Roy's favor. People will tell you that Roy priced himself out, but he hardly made unreasonable offers, and never offers that were considered totally absurd, the only person who really stood a chance against him either htan Hopkins and Calzaghe was McCellan anyways, and he was done after he fought Benn.
Have you got any evidence to back this stuff up?
Or is it just something you're spouting that has been concocted by fans to excuse Roy for not making these fights?
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Timing beats speed and McClellan had timing in spades.
McClellan had a good enough chin to hang with Jackson twice.
Roy couldn't stop him, sooner or later McClellan would have tagged him.
McClellan had monster power at Middle. I think he would have got the job done
Timing beats speed if the speed doesn't have timing. Toney had both speed and timing, and he only hit Jones a few times with clean shots, same with Hopkins, both Hopkins and Toney were faster than McCellan, both were as good or better than McClellan and both couldn't time Roy, they couldn't land enough flush shots to stop Roy. You talked about the amateurs, but the amateurs are nothing like the pros, and Roy was nothing like he was as a pro. It wasn't McClellan who went to the Olympics in their weightclass, Roy was a lot easier to tag in the amateurs and he was more of a flurry type fighter than a strategic boxer. As for McClellan chin, how long did his fights with Julian Jackson last (combined 6 rounds?) And how many clean shots did Julian land? Roy dropped guys with better chins than McClellan, Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Reggie Johnson, were all guys who had been known for their iron jaws, but Roy hurt and stopped two of them, and he could have stopped Reggie as well if he really wanted to.
The difference between Toney and hopkins and Gerald was that with Gerald it legitimately only took one.
He alreday had a psychological advantage over Roy and he was continuously improving as a fighter.
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Timing beats speed and McClellan had timing in spades.
McClellan had a good enough chin to hang with Jackson twice.
Roy couldn't stop him, sooner or later McClellan would have tagged him.
McClellan had monster power at Middle. I think he would have got the job done
Timing beats speed if the speed doesn't have timing. Toney had both speed and timing, and he only hit Jones a few times with clean shots, same with Hopkins, both Hopkins and Toney were faster than McCellan, both were as good or better than McClellan and both couldn't time Roy, they couldn't land enough flush shots to stop Roy. You talked about the amateurs, but the amateurs are nothing like the pros, and Roy was nothing like he was as a pro. It wasn't McClellan who went to the Olympics in their weightclass, Roy was a lot easier to tag in the amateurs and he was more of a flurry type fighter than a strategic boxer. As for McClellan chin, how long did his fights with Julian Jackson last (combined 6 rounds?) And how many clean shots did Julian land? Roy dropped guys with better chins than McClellan, Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Reggie Johnson, were all guys who had been known for their iron jaws, but Roy hurt and stopped two of them, and he could have stopped Reggie as well if he really wanted to.
The difference between Toney and hopkins and Gerald was that with Gerald it legitimately only took one.
He alreday had a psychological advantage over Roy and he was continuously improving as a fighter.
But you forget Hopkins was also a big puncher back in the day, in fact he has one of the quickest KO's in Middleweight history. You could say with Hopkins that it only took 1 as well back when he was a very aggressive fighter.
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Timing beats speed if the speed doesn't have timing. Toney had both speed and timing, and he only hit Jones a few times with clean shots, same with Hopkins, both Hopkins and Toney were faster than McCellan, both were as good or better than McClellan and both couldn't time Roy, they couldn't land enough flush shots to stop Roy. You talked about the amateurs, but the amateurs are nothing like the pros, and Roy was nothing like he was as a pro. It wasn't McClellan who went to the Olympics in their weightclass, Roy was a lot easier to tag in the amateurs and he was more of a flurry type fighter than a strategic boxer. As for McClellan chin, how long did his fights with Julian Jackson last (combined 6 rounds?) And how many clean shots did Julian land? Roy dropped guys with better chins than McClellan, Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Reggie Johnson, were all guys who had been known for their iron jaws, but Roy hurt and stopped two of them, and he could have stopped Reggie as well if he really wanted to.
The difference between Toney and hopkins and Gerald was that with Gerald it legitimately only took one.
He alreday had a psychological advantage over Roy and he was continuously improving as a fighter.
But you forget Hopkins was also a big puncher back in the day, in fact he has one of the quickest KO's in Middleweight history. You could say with Hopkins that it only took 1 as well back when he was a very aggressive fighter.
Hopkins had the reputation of a ferocious frightening deadly puncher that rivaled McClellan, did he?
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Timing beats speed if the speed doesn't have timing. Toney had both speed and timing, and he only hit Jones a few times with clean shots, same with Hopkins, both Hopkins and Toney were faster than McCellan, both were as good or better than McClellan and both couldn't time Roy, they couldn't land enough flush shots to stop Roy. You talked about the amateurs, but the amateurs are nothing like the pros, and Roy was nothing like he was as a pro. It wasn't McClellan who went to the Olympics in their weightclass, Roy was a lot easier to tag in the amateurs and he was more of a flurry type fighter than a strategic boxer. As for McClellan chin, how long did his fights with Julian Jackson last (combined 6 rounds?) And how many clean shots did Julian land? Roy dropped guys with better chins than McClellan, Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Reggie Johnson, were all guys who had been known for their iron jaws, but Roy hurt and stopped two of them, and he could have stopped Reggie as well if he really wanted to.
The difference between Toney and hopkins and Gerald was that with Gerald it legitimately only took one.
He alreday had a psychological advantage over Roy and he was continuously improving as a fighter.
But you forget Hopkins was also a big puncher back in the day, in fact he has one of the quickest KO's in Middleweight history. You could say with Hopkins that it only took 1 as well back when he was a very aggressive fighter.
Hopkins at his aggresive best was an accumulative puncher. He hit hard, but a paralell with McClellan is incorrect
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
The difference between Toney and hopkins and Gerald was that with Gerald it legitimately only took one.
He alreday had a psychological advantage over Roy and he was continuously improving as a fighter.
But you forget Hopkins was also a big puncher back in the day, in fact he has one of the quickest KO's in Middleweight history. You could say with Hopkins that it only took 1 as well back when he was a very aggressive fighter.
Hopkins had the reputation of a ferocious frightening deadly puncher that rivaled McClellan, did he?
Did i say that ?? i said Hopkins had the kind of punch that could set up knockout. If he hit you flush back in those days he most of the time shook his opponent badly which set up the knockout. I never said he was in the league of McClellan's punching power but Hopkins was still a big puncher.
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
But you forget Hopkins was also a big puncher back in the day, in fact he has one of the quickest KO's in Middleweight history. You could say with Hopkins that it only took 1 as well back when he was a very aggressive fighter.
Hopkins had the reputation of a ferocious frightening deadly puncher that rivaled McClellan, did he?
Did i say that ?? i said Hopkins had the kind of punch that could set up knockout. If he hit you flush back in those days he most of the time shook his opponent badly which set up the knockout.
I never said he was in the league of McClellan's punching power but Hopkins was still a big puncher.
OK Icey. I thought maybe you knew something no-one else did. Best for your sake to make that clear.. otherwise you look silly. ;)
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manju
In his prime, I never thought Jones to be a ducker. The most oft-repeated name was Michalczewski, but he didn't seem that exciting and I recall him being unwilling to travel to the US. Personally, I never clamored for a repeat of the Hopkins and Tooney snoozefests.
If you add Hill, the Bodysnatcher, and Ruiz (considering he's a heavyweight) you have some high-level comp there but obviously not near the level such greats like Ali and Leonard had. Jones could've used some more names on his rez.
In retrospect, there seems to be an awful lot of fights in the Middleweight division that never occurred. Was the timing just a tad off, where they ducking Jones, or did Jones duck them? Here's the list:
1. Nigel Benn
2. Chris Eubanks
3. Julian Jackson
4. Gerald Mcclennan
What's the verdict?
We can believe that the 4 mentioned above ducked roy or the other way round, i believe its the later, Collins said he was willing to travel to Roy Jones home to ask to fight him if he believed there was any chance roy would take it.
Re: Jones Jr. at Middleweight, re: ducking
Truth is the MW division was in a transition at that time...guys on their way out...guys already in negotiations with other top fighters..Jones was also only there about 3 or so years legitimatly...even after he won the title he started fighting SMW and only dropped down for one defense...weight was hard to keep...which is why he did not stay at SMW all that long either....
I don't think anyone ducked anyone be it Roy or guys ducking him...all the big names at the time were tough guys who would fight anyone...just bad timing is all...
I still say this to this day and will more then likely until I die...
Take PBF, Ali, even Ray Robinson's skills at their absolute best and IMO the SMW version of Roy Jones may be the best fighter to ever grace the sport hands down...he was a phenom...He wasn't there long and he was not as good at MW or LHW though he was great all together but the SMW version was something else...
