Calzaghe's legacy.

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10-21-2008, 02:37 PM
ICB

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Funny how Kessler was injured now and Lacy was overratted :rolleyes:

What about Trinidad, he had his ass handed to him by Winky and Roy Jones, he must have been overatted too?

And B Hop has had a bunch of disputed fights. Funny how three close losses to Taylor and Calzaghe can be turned around into wins but a close win can be twisted into almost being a loss? :-\

Calzaghe has beaten everyone put in front of him, more than can be said of Roy Jones, B Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor and any other great American middleweight.

His resume is unquestionable and a win over Roy will make him a first ballot Hall of Famer imo

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

I've asked this question several times and never got a reply.

But who has Bernard Hopkins beat in his entire career who Joe Calzaghe wouldn't have been a favourite to beat as well?

I'm not knocking Bernard at all here,I think his resume is outstanding I'm just saying when you look at all his wins Oscar, Trinidad, Joppy, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Calzaghe would be a clear betting favourite to defeat all of them.

Beating Eubank and Kessler are in actuality probably harder fights than Oscar, Tito and Tarver. They may not have the Hall of Fame credentials but I'd fancy Kessler to beat Hopkins a lot more than I would fancy Tito or Oscar to beat Joe.

Joe's record is amazing, only Floyd Mayweather has managed to go undefeated like him for so long in this era.

I just don't understand why people would want to minimise Joe's acomplishments?

Some people just like to moan and criticise no matter waht someone does.

Well Joe Calzaghe would of struggled with Glen Johnson, Felix Trinidad, Winky Wright, Kelly Pavlik, i understand what your saying Bilbo but i would still say Bernard Hopkins has the better record.
10-21-2008, 02:40 PM
Markusdarkus

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

Ok lets do Roy:

Hopkins = Green

Toney = Weight drained

Bums from 94-03

Tarver = Disputed

Ok lets do Hopkins:

Oscar = Small

Tito = Small

Tarver weight drained

Why do people keep bringing up crap about Calzaghe when EXACTLY the same arguments could be said with Hopkins and Jones.

Calzaghe haters are stupid.

James Toney = was a top 3 P4P fighther he always had weight problems, too much was made out of it. And James Toney in an interview said before the fight he didn't want any excuses regarding his weight. A little bit different to Chris Eubank who was pulled on late notice and only had 1 week to lose 20+ pounds.

RJJ = was just as green as Bernard Hopkins at the pro level, why do people keep using this ridiculous excuse ? RJJ had less fights than Bernard Hopkins.

Antonio Tarver = win was disuputed ? uhh yea whatever people wern't used to seeing RJJ in a close fight, thats why it was disputed at that time. I didn't think it was close at all the rounds were easy to score, and i had RJJ a clear winner by 3 rounds.

ODLH = Legit excuse.

Tito = Well the difference is Bernard Hopkins was a big underdog, Tito was high in the P4P rankings, and destroyed William Joppy like no one else had before. Bernard Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for this win, do you know how much of a favorite Tito was at the time ?

Antonio Tarver = Again Bernard Hopkins was the one moving up 2 weight classes, and was quite a big underdog. If Bernard Hopkins would of lost, there would of been an even more legit excuse for Bernard Hopkins.

One last thing RJJ had many more quality wins against.

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Thulani Malinga
Eric Harding
Jorge Fenando Castro

etc.

Listen i could justify the crap you said about Calzaghes wins.

I just cant be bothered.
10-21-2008, 02:44 PM
Kev

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

I've asked this question several times and never got a reply.

But who has Bernard Hopkins beat in his entire career who Joe Calzaghe wouldn't have been a favourite to beat as well?

I'm not knocking Bernard at all here,I think his resume is outstanding I'm just saying when you look at all his wins Oscar, Trinidad, Joppy, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Calzaghe would be a clear betting favourite to defeat all of them.

Beating Eubank and Kessler are in actuality probably harder fights than Oscar, Tito and Tarver. They may not have the Hall of Fame credentials but I'd fancy Kessler to beat Hopkins a lot more than I would fancy Tito or Oscar to beat Joe.

Joe's record is amazing, only Floyd Mayweather has managed to go undefeated like him for so long in this era.

I just don't understand why people would want to minimise Joe's acomplishments?

Some people just like to moan and criticise no matter waht someone does.

Well Joe Calzaghe would of struggled with Glen Johnson, Felix Trinidad, Winky Wright, Kelly Pavlik, i understand what your saying Bilbo but i would still say Bernard Hopkins has the better record.

I'm not disputing that B Hop has the better record, he's knocking on the door for a top 10 of all time slot imo. I just don't see why whenever Calzaghe achieve something people are so quick to discredit it.

Can't Hopkins and Calzaghe BOTH be great fighters?
10-21-2008, 02:46 PM
kingfrnk

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

Ok lets do Roy:

Hopkins = Green

Toney = Weight drained

Bums from 94-03

Tarver = Disputed

Ok lets do Hopkins:

Oscar = Small

Tito = Small

Tarver weight drained

Why do people keep bringing up crap about Calzaghe when EXACTLY the same arguments could be said with Hopkins and Jones.

Calzaghe haters are stupid.

James Toney = was a top 3 P4P fighther he always had weight problems, too much was made out of it. And James Toney in an interview said before the fight he didn't want any excuses regarding his weight. A little bit different to Chris Eubank who was pulled on late notice and only had 1 week to lose 20+ pounds.

RJJ = was just as green as Bernard Hopkins at the pro level, why do people keep using this ridiculous excuse ? RJJ had less fights than Bernard Hopkins.

Antonio Tarver = win was disuputed ? uhh yea whatever people wern't used to seeing RJJ in a close fight, thats why it was disputed at that time. I didn't think it was close at all the rounds were easy to score, and i had RJJ a clear winner by 3 rounds.

ODLH = Legit excuse.

Tito = Well the difference is Bernard Hopkins was a big underdog, Tito was high in the P4P rankings, and destroyed William Joppy like no one else had before. Bernard Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for this win, do you know how much of a favorite Tito was at the time ?

Antonio Tarver = Again Bernard Hopkins was the one moving up 2 weight classes, and was quite a big underdog. If Bernard Hopkins would of lost, there would of been an even more legit excuse for Bernard Hopkins.

One last thing RJJ had many more quality wins against.

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Thulani Malinga
Eric Harding
Jorge Fenando Castro

etc.

Excatly!
10-21-2008, 03:59 PM
Tysonbruno

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Oscar had fought previously at middleweight against a champ in Felix Sturm so he wasn't at that much of a disadvantage plus he weighed in at 155lbs but Hopkins only came in at 156lbs so both had a bit to spare for the 160lbs limit. Felix Trinidad was that small that he KO'd Joppy in 3 rounds for his WBA title yet Joppy did full 12 with Hopkins.
10-21-2008, 04:01 PM
BIG H

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

This thread should be renamed 'The who uses Boxrec the most' thread ;)
10-21-2008, 04:04 PM
Tysonbruno

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Why Boxrec thread what so because some of us no facts and figures we must have been on boxrec.
10-21-2008, 04:05 PM
Trainer Monkey

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

30 years from now,Clazaghe is going to be considered a great,like it or not. But his fans have to understand the resentment over how much more he might have been.
Warrens timidity seriously hurt Joe long term,even if it helped him in the short term
10-21-2008, 04:24 PM
Fenster

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Sorry Bilbo,it has nothing to do with country,a disputed decision against Hopkins,a fight against an injured Kessler,and an over rated Lacy does not make you a great.
That would be like judging Ali's career by what he did to Jerry Quarry,Patterson in 72(not the first fight) and Zora Foley

Funny how Kessler was injured now and Lacy was overratted :rolleyes:

What about Trinidad, he had his ass handed to him by Winky and Roy Jones, he must have been overatted too?

And B Hop has had a bunch of disputed fights. Funny how three close losses to Taylor and Calzaghe can be turned around into wins but a close win can be twisted into almost being a loss? :-\

Calzaghe has beaten everyone put in front of him, more than can be said of Roy Jones, B Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor and any other great American middleweight.

His resume is unquestionable and a win over Roy will make him a first ballot Hall of Famer imo

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

I don't understand why you rate Kessler as a "good" win? Who did he ever beat?
10-21-2008, 05:24 PM
ICB

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Ok lets do Roy:

Hopkins = Green

Toney = Weight drained

Bums from 94-03

Tarver = Disputed

Ok lets do Hopkins:

Oscar = Small

Tito = Small

Tarver weight drained

Why do people keep bringing up crap about Calzaghe when EXACTLY the same arguments could be said with Hopkins and Jones.

Calzaghe haters are stupid.

James Toney = was a top 3 P4P fighther he always had weight problems, too much was made out of it. And James Toney in an interview said before the fight he didn't want any excuses regarding his weight. A little bit different to Chris Eubank who was pulled on late notice and only had 1 week to lose 20+ pounds.

RJJ = was just as green as Bernard Hopkins at the pro level, why do people keep using this ridiculous excuse ? RJJ had less fights than Bernard Hopkins.

Antonio Tarver = win was disuputed ? uhh yea whatever people wern't used to seeing RJJ in a close fight, thats why it was disputed at that time. I didn't think it was close at all the rounds were easy to score, and i had RJJ a clear winner by 3 rounds.

ODLH = Legit excuse.

Tito = Well the difference is Bernard Hopkins was a big underdog, Tito was high in the P4P rankings, and destroyed William Joppy like no one else had before. Bernard Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for this win, do you know how much of a favorite Tito was at the time ?

Antonio Tarver = Again Bernard Hopkins was the one moving up 2 weight classes, and was quite a big underdog. If Bernard Hopkins would of lost, there would of been an even more legit excuse for Bernard Hopkins.

One last thing RJJ had many more quality wins against.

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Thulani Malinga
Eric Harding
Jorge Fenando Castro

etc.

Listen i could justify the crap you said about Calzaghes wins.

I just cant be bothered.

How can you dispute it ? its facts not opinion's and im not being sarcastic either.
10-21-2008, 05:25 PM
ICB

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG H

This thread should be renamed 'The who uses Boxrec the most' thread ;)

I've seen almost every single Joe Calzaghe fight, along with most of Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins fights. I don't need to use stats off the internet i know by watching there fights.
10-21-2008, 05:27 PM
Mr140

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Well i not a fan of either but if you could be honest about it they both were in weak divsion both would of moved up and fought better people. Only Calzaghe was not lucky enough to have superstars form way lower weights come up i mean i counld not see Oscar or Trinidad beating Calzaghe if they went up to smw and fought him can any of you.
10-21-2008, 05:29 PM
ICB

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Funny how Kessler was injured now and Lacy was overratted :rolleyes:

What about Trinidad, he had his ass handed to him by Winky and Roy Jones, he must have been overatted too?

And B Hop has had a bunch of disputed fights. Funny how three close losses to Taylor and Calzaghe can be turned around into wins but a close win can be twisted into almost being a loss? :-\

Calzaghe has beaten everyone put in front of him, more than can be said of Roy Jones, B Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor and any other great American middleweight.

His resume is unquestionable and a win over Roy will make him a first ballot Hall of Famer imo

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

I don't understand why you rate Kessler as a "good" win? Who did he ever beat?

Mikkel Kessler i rate as a good win because i think he is one of the best technical fighters out there. He had some solid wins against Librado Andrade, Craig Cummings, Anthony Mundine, he may not have the best wins in the world.

But he is a much better fighter than Jeff Lacy ever was, and it was between the two best Super Middleweights in the world and people were demanding the fight. I rated Mikkel Kessler as a good fighter before and after the Joe Calzaghe fight. And i give Joe Calzaghe alot of props for winning the fight.
10-21-2008, 06:33 PM
Rantcatrat

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Bilbo comparing a great fighter like Felix Trinidad who had the record, for the most Welterweight title defenses in history is madness. Felix Trinidad defeated great fighters and proved time and time again, he belonged against the best of his era.

Jeff Lacy was struggling with the likes of Omar Sheika, Syd Vanderpool, even before the Joe Calzaghe fight for crying out loud. He only got overhyped because he defeated a shot undertrained Robin Reid, who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle back in 1999.

Im not saying i agree with TM i think he is discrediting Joe Calzaghe, just for the sake of discrediting him. But i think what he is saying is that majority of Joe Calzaghe's best wins are all questionable. I'll give you examples of what i mean Bilbo.

Charles Brewer = Just got stopped in 3 rounds by Antwun Echols.

Richie Woodhall = Just lost Markus Beyer, was also dropped 3 times by feather fisted Markus Beyer.

Chris Eubank = Weight drained.

Robin Reid = Just lost to 40+ Thulani Malinga.

etc.

I mean the only really good wins Joe Calzaghe has had with no question marks is Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy, but as i pointed out to you before. previous fights before the Joe Calzaghe fight, proved Jeff Lacy wasn't world class.

And i don't see why that if Joe Calzaghe beats RJJ. That the RJJ win should be hailed as some great win, everyone before this fight considered RJJ. A shot fighter and from his last 2 fights he hasn't really impressed me at all, RJJ does have a chance he still has speed and he is still the bigger man, but come on if this fight was 6 years ago would we be even questioning anything else but a clear cut RJJ win ?

Im not saying its Joe Calzaghe's fault he was in a weak era of the Super Middleweights, but i still think he should of moved up to Light Heavyweight years ago. I remember after the Kabary Salem fight, Joe Calzaghe said he was tight at the weight and struggled to make the Super Middleweight limit.

I don't understand why you rate Kessler as a "good" win? Who did he ever beat?

Mikkel Kessler i rate as a good win because i think he is one of the best technical fighters out there. He had some solid wins against Librado Andrade, Craig Cummings, Anthony Mundine, he may not have the best wins in the world.

But he is a much better fighter than Jeff Lacy ever was, and it was between the two best Super Middleweights in the world and people were demanding the fight. I rated Mikkel Kessler as a good fighter before and after the Joe Calzaghe fight. And i give Joe Calzaghe alot of props for winning the fight.

I agree. I still think Kessler needs to prove himself. He has wins over Andrade and Mundine. I want to see wins over fighters like Bute, Froch, Taylor, and Inkin. He beats two of those four and he'll have gained a lot of respect in my eyes.
10-21-2008, 06:54 PM
Markusdarkus

Re: Calzaghe's legacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Ok lets do Roy:

Hopkins = Green

Toney = Weight drained

Bums from 94-03

Tarver = Disputed

Ok lets do Hopkins:

Oscar = Small

Tito = Small

Tarver weight drained

Why do people keep bringing up crap about Calzaghe when EXACTLY the same arguments could be said with Hopkins and Jones.

Calzaghe haters are stupid.

James Toney = was a top 3 P4P fighther he always had weight problems, too much was made out of it. And James Toney in an interview said before the fight he didn't want any excuses regarding his weight. A little bit different to Chris Eubank who was pulled on late notice and only had 1 week to lose 20+ pounds.

RJJ = was just as green as Bernard Hopkins at the pro level, why do people keep using this ridiculous excuse ? RJJ had less fights than Bernard Hopkins.

Antonio Tarver = win was disuputed ? uhh yea whatever people wern't used to seeing RJJ in a close fight, thats why it was disputed at that time. I didn't think it was close at all the rounds were easy to score, and i had RJJ a clear winner by 3 rounds.

ODLH = Legit excuse.

Tito = Well the difference is Bernard Hopkins was a big underdog, Tito was high in the P4P rankings, and destroyed William Joppy like no one else had before. Bernard Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for this win, do you know how much of a favorite Tito was at the time ?

Antonio Tarver = Again Bernard Hopkins was the one moving up 2 weight classes, and was quite a big underdog. If Bernard Hopkins would of lost, there would of been an even more legit excuse for Bernard Hopkins.

One last thing RJJ had many more quality wins against.

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Thulani Malinga
Eric Harding
Jorge Fenando Castro

etc.

Excatly!

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Thulani Malinga
Eric Harding
Jorge Fenando Castro

Exactly the rest of his good wins (those are less than a Pavlik) have question marks.

So does Hopkins so does Wright (small guy king) so does Calzaghe.

Its worrying why idiots pull up Calzaghes wins then not expect to get annihilated on the board.

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