Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.
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Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.
It could be Manny if he keeps beating fighters from Mexico!!!!!!!!!
Brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
:lolhaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepQuote:
Originally Posted by scraptime
Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?
I wanted to play along and you guys put him on blast... ;D
I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanWhile I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w
I'm really hurt that someone who argues as eloquently as you would say that of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
:beat:
JR, your def. not alone in that thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Here's what my list looked like in 2007
If I had to re-make that list today I would start with putting JMM at #5 and slide everyone down 1 spot.
Leaving "Chiquita" Gonzalez out.
I have also learned a lot more on Saldivar and would move Saldivar up one and MAB up one and would drop Canto to #10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w
Too many great Mexican fighters of days old to even begin to name who was best...Almost impossible
Well tito never said i dont do that but does not change the fact that you bag on JCC regardless all i said is its you what did they expect lol. Not saying its a bad thing just saying thats the way you are. I do the same thing i be shocked if you said anything good about JCC. All i was saying be even more shocked if you said something good about Oscar Dela Hoya all i was getting at is when someone brings them up those guys say the same shit like there overrated or they did not do as good as people say.
What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMOh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
I've said good things about both fighters. You just choose not to read them. See my previous post on this thread, where I give JCC his props. Of course, I also present some arguments against his being annointed God by some near-sighted fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Now... on the subject of DLH, just don't expect me to sign up for his Fan Club (LOL).
;)
Magarita lacks defense but compensates with plaster
That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanWhat turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMOh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
When you compare top 15 opposing fighters, JCC does indeed come out on top over Finito. So on that basis alone, I guess a case could be made for Chavez. I did see each fight in their respective peaks however, and always thought Finito was the more dominant, complete fighter. I may be a little biased as well, 'cause I always respected Finito more as a person, as well as his prowess in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMThat's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanWhat turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.