Inarguably the best boxer of Mexican descent

[Julius Rain]

Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.

[holmcall]

It could be Manny if he keeps beating fighters from Mexico!!!!!!!!!

[CutMeMick]

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?

Brutal.

I wanted to play along and you guys put him on blast...

[TitoFan]

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

[TitoFan]

Dont even bother its Tito fan what did you expect him to say about it.

I'm really hurt that someone who argues as eloquently as you would say that of me.

[CutMeMick]

Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.

JR, your def. not alone in that thought.

Here's what my list looked like in 2007
If I had to re-make that list today I would start with putting JMM at #5 and slide everyone down 1 spot.
Leaving "Chiquita" Gonzalez out.
I have also learned a lot more on Saldivar and would move Saldivar up one and MAB up one and would drop Canto to #10.

Here's my top 10 Mexican fighters.

1. JCC
2. 'Finito' Lopez
3. Olivares
4. Sanchez
5. Roman
6. Erik
7. Canto
8. Saldivar
9. MAB
10. 'Chiquita' (Vastly overlooked in the All-Times lists)

*Depending how JMM, Montiel, Rafa & Izzy close out their respective careers I think either one could potentially slip into the top 10.

Honors: Zaragoza, Zarate, Efren, Pintor, Medina, 'Santa Tokyo', 'Cobrita', Arce, Zurita, Kid Azteca, Rafa, Izzy, Herrera, Montiel, Mijares, Solis, Cazares, "Yaqui", Arizmendi, "Raton", Villasana.

[CGM]

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

[DaxxKahn]

Too many great Mexican fighters of days old to even begin to name who was best...Almost impossible

[Mr140]

Well tito never said i dont do that but does not change the fact that you bag on JCC regardless all i said is its you what did they expect lol. Not saying its a bad thing just saying thats the way you are. I do the same thing i be shocked if you said anything good about JCC. All i was saying be even more shocked if you said something good about Oscar Dela Hoya all i was getting at is when someone brings them up those guys say the same shit like there overrated or they did not do as good as people say.

[TitoFan]

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

[TitoFan]

Well tito never said i dont do that but does not change the fact that you bag on JCC regardless all i said is its you what did they expect lol. Not saying its a bad thing just saying thats the way you are. I do the same thing i be shocked if you said anything good about JCC. All i was saying be even more shocked if you said something good about Oscar Dela Hoya all i was getting at is when someone brings them up those guys say the same shit like there overrated or they did not do as good as people say.

I've said good things about both fighters. You just choose not to read them. See my previous post on this thread, where I give JCC his props. Of course, I also present some arguments against his being annointed God by some near-sighted fans.

Now... on the subject of DLH, just don't expect me to sign up for his Fan Club (LOL).

[boxer1234]

Magarita lacks defense but compensates with plaster

[CGM]

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

[TitoFan]

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

When you compare top 15 opposing fighters, JCC does indeed come out on top over Finito. So on that basis alone, I guess a case could be made for Chavez. I did see each fight in their respective peaks however, and always thought Finito was the more dominant, complete fighter. I may be a little biased as well, 'cause I always respected Finito more as a person, as well as his prowess in the ring.

[Pavlik]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.