Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
I did not think Pac Man would beat Mayweather but after the Cotto display, he definitely does. I hope they fight and he batters Floyd.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
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Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Styles do make fights. After that fight I think Pacquaio would beat Mayweather. I don't think either fighter will win by KO but I do think Pacquaio will throw 5 to Mayweather's 2 and win on points
I agree...I don't care how much of a defensive genius you are - How do you deal with that speed, work rate and punch selection?
I think Pac could be too taxing for Mayweathers defence.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
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Originally Posted by
skel1983
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
LOL at Mayweather decimating Pacquaio. Will it be just like the Gatti fight or just like the Chavez fight?
I was right about Pacquiao decimating Cotto in a one sided fight.
Pacquao would get dominated by Mayweather badly. Maybe give him some issues in the first 2 rounds but that will be the end of it.
Mayweather won't stand toe to toe like Marquez did but he will counter the hell out of Pacquiao the same way. Mayweather also has a good consistant jab, something no one has used against Pacquiao. Jabs offset speed and Mayweathers timing AND speed make a problem. Pacquiao has showed against Marquez, his rhythm can be found out and he can be timed. Mayweather has better timng is faster and hts harder then Marquez and he's bigger. Pacquao has tendencies when he bounces out and and in to do it with his hands down and thats why Marquez would catch hm coming out. Mayweather would do it a lot worse. Cotto did it for one round and only with one left hook.
Pacquiao can't deal with counter punchers that have a composed mind and great timing like Marquez, Mayweather s better in every way then Marquez and is a bad style matchup for Pacquiao.
I stand by this like I stood by my prediction for Cotto and Pacquiao. If Pacquiao and Mayweather ever fight Pacquiao is going to get destroyed.
Maybe you want to remind us that you got the Cotto fight rite once again??
Give it a fucking rest you predict a fight rite and now you think your fucking some boxing expert, Pac destroyed by Mayweather hahahahaha give your head a fucking wobble, when the fight happens I will bring this post up.
To be fair Majesty most likely picked Pac big so he could act like it wasn't a big deal if it happened and if it didn't happen OMG he sucks, Floyd!
Who here picked Scott Lawton to KO Derry Matthews and made it their joker pick all the while knowing dude had only 5 KO's in 26 wins? Fenster? LOL, No. I did. That's boxrec magic.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Wow! I have tremendous respect for Pac...but i think people are getting a bit carried away. If you listen to Roach before Pac's last three fights...he himself pointed out their individual glaring weaknesses. Fact remains...Roach for the most part handpicked Manny's last three opponents. He is definitely not handpicking the Floyd fight. This will be a fight that the market demands. All of the HUGE advantages Pac had over Cotto, Oscar, and Hatton...will either be gone or neutrilized against Floyd. Skill, speed, endurance, defense, intelligence...there is no glaring weakness in Floyd's arsenal. Another thing i think people miss from the Pac/Cotto fight...Pac, for all of his speed and improvements...still gets hit frequently. Cotto has no where near the speed, accuracy, or overall skill of Floyd...yet he still tagged Manny. People keep focusing on IF FLOYD CAN KNOCKOUT MANNY. But Floyd's game has never been about knocking people out. If anything...Manny's huge rise will make Floyd train harder than ever (which is scary considering how hard he trains normally). I am not saying Floyd will definitely win...but for people to think that this will play out like Pac's recent performances...highly doubtful.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
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Originally Posted by
Nameless
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Boxing is about styles and where people are mentally. Hence why I picked Pacquiao to decimate Cotto.
But Pacquiao would get decimated by Mayweather.
Compared to Marquez, Mayweather is a better counter puncher, has better timing, is faster, is bigger, and hits harder. I think Mayweather would decimate Pacquiao. But the only thing people will say is that Mayweather doesn't look good vs southpaws. But i doubt that would make much of a difference since Pacquiao squares up.
But Mayweather is too good for Pacquiao because of how he locks down with his style, he would shut Pacquiao down. Arum knows that too. Unless Mayweather gets there first Pacquiao will be fighting Mosley or Berto.
That is exactly how I see Mayweather - Pac. I think Mayweathers style is all wrong for Pac and because of Pacs agressive tendencies when he is starting to get tagged i actually see Mayweather stopping Pac.
IF Cotto didn't flat down Pacman, you can be sure that Mayweather can't, especially as he's a really careful boxer who doesn't like to trade and their respective punching power has nothing in common.
I'm not sure about this. On one or two occasions Cotto caught Manny coming in, and Manny looked stunned for a moment, though his legs held. What's going to happen if Mayweather hits him every time he jumps in to unleash one of those trademark flurries? And we all know Mayweather is capable of doing it, too. Did you see the state of Manny's face after the fight, btw? Cotto didn't even land that many shots, but he still looks like he's fallen down a flight of stairs. Also, when Cotto kept to boxing, tucked his chin in and had his guard high he got the better of Manny [before the second knockdown, after which he went totally defensive]. Mayweather can box far better [on or off the back foot] than Cotto, so I could see Manny getting badly hurt, though whether he would be stopped really depends on whether Mayweather wants to try and finish him or not. I think if he caught Manny and Pac was set off-balance/wobbled/dazed for a moment, Mayweather would be all over him trying to KO him and cement his 'legacy'. He would definitely win on points otherwise, imo, for a few reasons:
1. Manny struggles with good boxers [Morales, Marquez and even Cotto for a few rounds], and particularly counter-punchers who are able to hurt him on the way in.
2. PBF is just as fast as Pac.
3. Manny has never fought anyone as defensively sound as Mayweather.
4. Even though everything was stacked against Marquez [weight, age, hand-speed] Mayweather made him look average after being outside of the ring for over a year. This is a man who arguably beat Manny, and at the very least, offered a stern challenge that he only just overcame by the good grace of the judges.
5. Styles do make fights, and Manny's is perfectly suited to PBF's. This will be the bull vs the matador, and, whilst it would only take one mistake for PBF to get mauled, I don't see it happening - the matador rarely loses, as Floyd's record reflects.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
You know with all the comparisons between how Floyd versus Pacquaio would go as opposed to Pacquaio-JMM you can see a difference between the two in SRR's sig.
If Manny starts his work from too far and lunges he's gonna create some openings for Floyd but Floyd most likely wouldn't even throw that second punch that really got Manny's attention in that video, the left hook, JMM counters in combination and very accurately which is pretty rare, Floyd would have most likely just thrown a counter right and tried to get out of the way. JMM is a much more offensive counter puncher than Floyd, anytime Manny made a mistake he could be punished with multiple shots by JMM, not sure that's the case with Floyd.
Still Floyd could win definitely, just not sure if he could do it one shot at a time and play defense. It won't be anything like the JMM fight size or not, JMM just can't play to his strengths against a guy like Floyd. Make him come forward and lead, especially against a guy like Floyd, and he's lost.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
You know with all the comparisons between how Floyd versus Pacquaio would go as opposed to Pacquaio-JMM you can see a difference between the two in SRR's sig.
If Manny starts his work from too far and lunges he's gonna create some openings for Floyd but Floyd most likely wouldn't even throw that second punch that really got Manny's attention in that video, the left hook, JMM counters in combination and very accurately which is pretty rare, Floyd would have most likely just thrown a counter right and tried to get out of the way. JMM is a much more offensive counter puncher than Floyd, anytime Manny made a mistake he could be punished with multiple shots by JMM, not sure that's the case with Floyd.
Still Floyd could win definitely, just not sure if he could do it one shot at a time and play defense. It won't be anything like the JMM fight size or not, JMM just can't play to his strengths against a guy like Floyd. Make him come forward and lead, especially against a guy like Floyd, and he's lost.
Like I said, I'm not sure he'd KO him, but I definitely think he'd win on points. He would avoid 90% of Pac's output, make him miss big where possible and accentuate every mistake whilst setting up eye-catching shots for the judges. And no, Floyd doesn't string together combinations as much as he once did, or as aggressively as Marquez did against Pac, but he has always shown that he is excellent at selecting shots when he wants to, and that can be damaging even when on the defensive - especially against a fighter who you know will come to you all night long. And if Pac is rocked/in trouble I think Mayweather will try to finish him, which he is very good at doing, tbf - we just don't see much of it.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
What kills me is everyone is using Jmm Vs Pacquiao and Jmm Vs Mayweather as a measuring stick for how Pac Vs Floyd would go but what I don't see is...
People realizing that JMM is not the fighter he was then, Manny is not the fighter he was then.
JMM took an beating from J Diaz most of their fight a good but certainly not P4P class fighter.
Everyone looks for excuses on why Pacquiao is so good be it his opp was weight drained, past thyeir best they were over rated or my favorite of them all is
I knew he would win but I rooted for the other guy...Then the..
Styles make fights line.
What I don't hear is,
Pacquiao keeps improving so much that he makes world class fighters look like club fighters, Manny and Roach together as a team make Manny so good or Manny has a cool haircut so he is so good!!!!
Just reasons to take away from what he has accomplished.
Now all of a sudden Cotto was over rated, Cotto has the wrong style, Cotto was ruined by Margarito thats why Manny was able to dominate him....
A bunch of shit talking guys who refuse to give credit where credit is due!!!
JMM is a great fighter who is on the slide ( though not washed up by any means)
DLH was weight drained but that was his fault, his size advantage should have been an equalizer and just a yr before he gave PBF all he could handle.
Hatton was without question the best 140 lbr in the world and unbeaten at the weight when Manny destroyed him and Ricky had just come off a one sided beat down of Malinaggi
Cotto is prime, is a huge body puncher (The spot everyone swore he would break Manny down with), Cotto holds wins over the Ring Champ at WW Mosley, Former champ Quintana b(one sided) Beat Clottey in a tough tough fight and even dropped the iron Jawed native of Ghana.
Fact is Manny has beaten all these guys with ease, easier then I have seen Mayweather beat anyone since Gatti!!!!!
Now Pacquiao nut huggers annoy the shit out of me but I'll be damned if I will just agree with any of the bullshit excuses on why Manny is doing so well.
Pacquiao is walking through these guys because he is just that good!!!
Nothing more nothing less and with the amount of money that could be made in a fight Vs Floyd there is a reason why Floyd is not jumping at this like a kid in the candy store.
And it's certainly not because he is a bigger draw then Manny at the moment
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
What kills me is everyone is using Jmm Vs Pacquiao and Jmm Vs Mayweather as a measuring stick for how Pac Vs Floyd would go but what I don't see is...
People realizing that JMM is not the fighter he was then, Manny is not the fighter he was then.
JMM took an beating from J Diaz most of their fight a good but certainly not P4P class fighter.
Everyone looks for excuses on why Pacquiao is so good be it his opp was weight drained, past thyeir best they were over rated or my favorite of them all is
I knew he would win but I rooted for the other guy...Then the..
Styles make fights line.
What I don't hear is,
Pacquiao keeps improving so much that he makes world class fighters look like club fighters, Manny and Roach together as a team make Manny so good or Manny has a cool haircut so he is so good!!!!
Just reasons to take away from what he has accomplished.
Now all of a sudden Cotto was over rated, Cotto has the wrong style, Cotto was ruined by Margarito thats why Manny was able to dominate him....
A bunch of shit talking guys who refuse to give credit where credit is due!!!
JMM is a great fighter who is on the slide ( though not washed up by any means)
DLH was weight drained but that was his fault, his size advantage should have been an equalizer and just a yr before he gave PBF all he could handle.
Hatton was without question the best 140 lbr in the world and unbeaten at the weight when Manny destroyed him and Ricky had just come off a one sided beat down of Malinaggi
Cotto is prime, is a huge body puncher (The spot everyone swore he would break Manny down with), Cotto holds wins over the Ring Champ at WW Mosley, Former champ Quintana b(one sided) Beat Clottey in a tough tough fight and even dropped the iron Jawed native of Ghana.
Fact is Manny has beaten all these guys with ease, easier then I have seen Mayweather beat anyone since Gatti!!!!!
Now Pacquiao nut huggers annoy the shit out of me but I'll be damned if I will just agree with any of the bullshit excuses on why Manny is doing so well.
Pacquiao is walking through these guys because he is just that good!!!
Nothing more nothing less and with the amount of money that could be made in a fight Vs Floyd there is a reason why Floyd is not jumping at this like a kid in the candy store.
And it's certainly not because he is a bigger draw then Manny at the moment
Roach said Hatton was washed up and one dimensional. Roach said Oscar was past it and would fade. Roach said Cotto isn't the same fighter as he was before the Tony fight. It seems to me Roach was smart enough to pick the right fighters for Manny at this point. Props for Manny for handling his business...but Mayweather is a huge step up in quality. Different fighters win in different ways. Pac's wins seem more impressive because he is an offensive/all action fighter. Floyd doesn't have to knock his opponents out. He technically dismantles them. I am not saying any of this as a fan or hater of either fighter. Just saying...as impressive as Pac has been...for me...the BEST fighter he has faced to this point of his career is Marquez. And those where two pick em fights. You could say Manny could beat Marquez easier now...but we really don't know unless they fight again. The Floyd vs. Pac fight will truly determine who is the pfp champ. And that is a fight that is going to happen because the market demands it!! Not because Roach thinks it will suit Pac's strengths.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
What kills me is everyone is using Jmm Vs Pacquiao and Jmm Vs Mayweather as a measuring stick for how Pac Vs Floyd would go but what I don't see is...
People realizing that JMM is not the fighter he was then, Manny is not the fighter he was then.
JMM took an beating from J Diaz most of their fight a good but certainly not P4P class fighter.
Everyone looks for excuses on why Pacquiao is so good be it his opp was weight drained, past thyeir best they were over rated or my favorite of them all is
I knew he would win but I rooted for the other guy...Then the..
Styles make fights line.
What I don't hear is,
Pacquiao keeps improving so much that he makes world class fighters look like club fighters, Manny and Roach together as a team make Manny so good or Manny has a cool haircut so he is so good!!!!
Just reasons to take away from what he has accomplished.
Now all of a sudden Cotto was over rated, Cotto has the wrong style, Cotto was ruined by Margarito thats why Manny was able to dominate him....
A bunch of shit talking guys who refuse to give credit where credit is due!!!
JMM is a great fighter who is on the slide ( though not washed up by any means)
DLH was weight drained but that was his fault, his size advantage should have been an equalizer and just a yr before he gave PBF all he could handle.
Hatton was without question the best 140 lbr in the world and unbeaten at the weight when Manny destroyed him and Ricky had just come off a one sided beat down of Malinaggi
Cotto is prime, is a huge body puncher (The spot everyone swore he would break Manny down with), Cotto holds wins over the Ring Champ at WW Mosley, Former champ Quintana b(one sided) Beat Clottey in a tough tough fight and even dropped the iron Jawed native of Ghana.
Fact is Manny has beaten all these guys with ease, easier then I have seen Mayweather beat anyone since Gatti!!!!!
Now Pacquiao nut huggers annoy the shit out of me but I'll be damned if I will just agree with any of the bullshit excuses on why Manny is doing so well.
Pacquiao is walking through these guys because he is just that good!!!
Nothing more nothing less and with the amount of money that could be made in a fight Vs Floyd there is a reason why Floyd is not jumping at this like a kid in the candy store.
And it's certainly not because he is a bigger draw then Manny at the moment
Roach said Hatton was washed up and one dimensional. Roach said Oscar was past it and would fade. Roach said Cotto isn't the same fighter as he was before the Tony fight. It seems to me Roach was smart enough to pick the right fighters for Manny at this point. Props for Manny for handling his business...but Mayweather is a huge step up in quality. Different fighters win in different ways. Pac's wins seem more impressive because he is an offensive/all action fighter. Floyd doesn't have to knock his opponents out. He technically dismantles them. I am not saying any of this as a fan or hater of either fighter. Just saying...as impressive as Pac has been...for me...the BEST fighter he has faced to this point of his career is Marquez. And those where two pick em fights. You could say Manny could beat Marquez easier now...but we really don't know unless they fight again. The Floyd vs. Pac fight will truly determine who is the pfp champ. And that is a fight that is going to happen because the market demands it!! Not because Roach thinks it will suit Pac's strengths.
Good points and well backed up statements, I give credit for not just using any random excuse for your not thinking Manny is a good as it seems.,
The statements of Roach have even been said about Floyd, though not the downslide or not the same fighter as he once was part but he has stated Floyd was over rated.
My comments were more or less based on the faqct that until Manny is proven other then what he is maybe people (No one in particular because I have heard writers at other fights in the press room use stupid reasoning as well) should just give him credit.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
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Originally Posted by
zhubin
<snip />
I am not saying Floyd will definitely win...but for people to think that this will play out like Pac's recent performances...highly doubtful.
Well then I'll say it for you.
Mayweather will beat Manny.
Definitely. Barring puncher's luck, which is always the wild card when folks are hitting each other, Floyd should be expected to win by most anyone, particularly by boxing fans. Like yous.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Boxing is about styles and where people are mentally. Hence why I picked Pacquiao to decimate Cotto.
But Pacquiao would get decimated by Mayweather.
Compared to Marquez, Mayweather is a better counter puncher, has better timing, is faster, is bigger, and hits harder. I think Mayweather would decimate Pacquiao. But the only thing people will say is that Mayweather doesn't look good vs southpaws. But i doubt that would make much of a difference since Pacquiao squares up.
But Mayweather is too good for Pacquiao because of how he locks down with his style, he would shut Pacquiao down. Arum knows that too. Unless Mayweather gets there first Pacquiao will be fighting Mosley or Berto.
Yes, styles do make fights, but here's the thing you are forgetting. Just because fighter A loses to fighter B and fighter B loses to fighter C doesn't mean fighter A will lose to fighter C. Case in point. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier lost to Foreman, therefore it was widely predicted Ali would lose to Foreman, we all know what happened. Or how about the recent welterweight matches? Mosely loses to Cotto, Cotto loses to Margarito, therefore Mosely would lose to Margarito right? It didn't happen that way.
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
roach seems to be picking the right opponents for pac. roach said he wanted pbf next, if there is anyone who knows pacs ability its roach. if roach thinks pac can handle pbf then i guess he can.
we cannot compare pacs performances with jmm morales hoya anymore. we all saw that pac is getting better he is not the same pac who fought before. in pacs next fight i will expect the same pac that demolished cotto plus a whole lot more.
pac also showed us that he can take a punch on the body and head. mind you he got tagged by punches that he didnt even see.
the thing with pbf is that he is hard to hit! add that with his ability to pick punches. can pbf damage pac with his punches? maybe can pac open up pbf's defence with his quick gazillion angled punches? pac i think is smart enough not to get over excited or frustrated with pbf's style. does pbf experienced offence same as pac? did he do well?
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Boxing is about styles and where people are mentally. Hence why I picked Pacquiao to decimate Cotto.
But Pacquiao would get decimated by Mayweather.
Compared to Marquez, Mayweather is a better counter puncher, has better timing, is faster, is bigger, and hits harder. I think Mayweather would decimate Pacquiao. But the only thing people will say is that Mayweather doesn't look good vs southpaws. But i doubt that would make much of a difference since Pacquiao squares up.
But Mayweather is too good for Pacquiao because of how he locks down with his style, he would shut Pacquiao down. Arum knows that too. Unless Mayweather gets there first Pacquiao will be fighting Mosley or Berto.
Yes, styles do make fights, but here's the thing you are forgetting. Just because fighter A loses to fighter B and fighter B loses to fighter C doesn't mean fighter A will lose to fighter C. Case in point. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier lost to Foreman, therefore it was widely predicted Ali would lose to Foreman, we all know what happened. Or how about the recent welterweight matches? Mosely loses to Cotto, Cotto loses to Margarito, therefore Mosely would lose to Margarito right? It didn't happen that way.
And Ali also beat Frazier twice after losing to him the first time, and Margacheato used plaster of paris to beat Cotto [Oh c'mon, we all know it, please don't argue the toss :rolleyes:]. And you've kind of missed the point, anyway, since he wasn't just saying that because 'fighter A loses to fighter B and fighter B loses to fighter C doesn't mean fighter A will lose to fighter C', he was saying that Marquez is a less lethal version of Mayweather, who gave Pac fits - and he's right. It's a fact, not an opinion based on who beat who [since Marquez never officially beat Pac, anyway, which makes your point/example null and void].
Re: 3 things - 1 Pac is inhuman- 2- How good must marquez be - 3-Mayweather!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mnmc10
roach seems to be picking the right opponents for pac. roach said he wanted pbf next, if there is anyone who knows pacs ability its roach. if roach thinks pac can handle pbf then i guess he can.
we cannot compare pacs performances with jmm morales hoya anymore. we all saw that pac is getting better he is not the same pac who fought before. in pacs next fight i will expect the same pac that demolished cotto plus a whole lot more.
pac also showed us that he can take a punch on the body and head. mind you he got tagged by punches that he didnt even see.
the thing with pbf is that he is hard to hit! add that with his ability to pick punches. can pbf damage pac with his punches? maybe can pac open up pbf's defence with his quick gazillion angled punches? pac i think is smart enough not to get over excited or frustrated with pbf's style. does pbf experienced offence same as pac? did he do well?
Roach wants Floyd next because that will be his and his fighters biggest payday. I am not saying he doesn't have confidence in Manny against Floyd...but Roach knows deep down how difficult it is to beat Mayweather. It will also be a challenge for Floyd...because Floyd hasn't faced such a tremendous athlete at the top of his game before.
