Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Does that not go both ways? I mean i have yet to see any proof that he cheated against Cotto. I know Cotto was the favorite going in. And he has his loyal fan base. So it's easy for them to blame it on cheating. But lets be realistic. Cotto took 237 power punches in that fight. From a naturally bigger man. Can that not be the reason he lost? Everything else has been speculation and accusations. Yeah I'm sure what Kizer is really doing is covering his own ass. But it don't change the fact that Nevada crushes California in fights held. So it's easy to see how they would do a better job at monitoring hand wraps than California.
Hey, only MargaCHEATO and his slimey trainers know if he cheated against Cotto or not. But as fans, and as cognitive beings, we can make up out own minds. And I believe the average, intelligent fan realizes that a guy wouldn't bust his ass for 15 years fighting on smaller cards for "decent" pay days, finally establish his name so that he was a marquee fighter capable of making big money, THEN suddenly start cheating. That makes no sense.
Why would Margacheato and his camp risk his career at this point by cheating in such a HUGE marquee fight? The answer is simple: Because they thought they could get away with it. Why would they think they could get away with it? The same reason why these guys who get busted for performance enhancing drugs think they can get away with it: because they've gotten away with it in the past.
You show me someone who truely believes Margacheato has never cheated before the Mosley fight, and I'll show you a numbskull.
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
No matter, cheat against Cotto or not, he used plaster brass knuckle, which are potentially deadly weapons. Ask Billy Collin SR, ask Luis Resto. This is not forgivable just because he didn't have time to use them.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
I think he should be banned from boxing, to give a clear message to those who would entertain the same thoughts, but what do I know?
Hell...... me, I'll just watch reruns of the Margarito-Mosley fight whenever I need something to cheer me up.
;D :cool:
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Hey, only MargaCHEATO and his slimey trainers know if he cheated against Cotto or not. But as fans, and as cognitive beings, we can make up out own minds. And I believe the average, intelligent fan realizes that a guy wouldn't bust his ass for 15 years fighting on smaller cards for "decent" pay days, finally establish his name so that he was a marquee fighter capable of making big money, THEN suddenly start cheating. That makes no sense.
Why would Margacheato and his camp risk his career at this point by cheating in such a HUGE marquee fight? The answer is simple: Because they thought they could get away with it. Why would they think they could get away with it? The same reason why these guys who get busted for performance enhancing drugs think they can get away with it: because they've gotten away with it in the past.
You show me someone who truely believes Margacheato has never cheated before the Mosley fight, and I'll show you a numbskull.
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
That is such a silly way to spin the arguement. CLEARLY if Margarito had loaded gloves, every punch he landed early in the fight would have taken more out of Cotto, breaking him down and making it much easier to land more power shots as the fight wore on, and accumulating MUCH greater damage to Miguel. Perhaps Cotto wouldn't have been broken down so badly by the mid rounds if Margarito wasn't hitting him with bricks? I mean Cotto has tired in the championship rounds before obviously, but he was clearly schooling Margarito for the first 5 and a half rounds, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have continued to do so over the course of the fight if Margarito wasn't in fact cheating.
I'm starting to wonder if you actually saw the fight. Or if you have seen them fight previously. Margarito broke Cotto's nose in the 2nd round. That and the constant pressure Margarito applied are what led to Cotto being broken down. Why is that so hard to accept? Yes Cotto was taking Margarito to school in the first half. But Margarito has always been a slow starter. It was only a matter of time before he got started.
There is no proof Margarito cheated in the Cotto fight. It's stupidity to even bring it up. I mean come on. When does common sense kick in? If Margarito indeed had loaded gloves do you seriously think Cotto would be able to take 267 punches? Hell no! 267 punches is a lot of punches without loaded gloves. With loaded gloves it's insane. There is no way possible he takes even 150 from the naturally bigger man if the gloves were loaded
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Hey, only MargaCHEATO and his slimey trainers know if he cheated against Cotto or not. But as fans, and as cognitive beings, we can make up out own minds. And I believe the average, intelligent fan realizes that a guy wouldn't bust his ass for 15 years fighting on smaller cards for "decent" pay days, finally establish his name so that he was a marquee fighter capable of making big money, THEN suddenly start cheating. That makes no sense.
Why would Margacheato and his camp risk his career at this point by cheating in such a HUGE marquee fight? The answer is simple: Because they thought they could get away with it. Why would they think they could get away with it? The same reason why these guys who get busted for performance enhancing drugs think they can get away with it: because they've gotten away with it in the past.
You show me someone who truely believes Margacheato has never cheated before the Mosley fight, and I'll show you a numbskull.
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
No matter, cheat against Cotto or not, he used plaster brass knuckle, which are potentially deadly weapons. Ask Billy Collin SR, ask Luis Resto. This is not forgivable just because he didn't have time to use them.
That makes no muthafukkin sense. Rather he used them or not he still used them? What the fukk?
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
That is such a silly way to spin the arguement. CLEARLY if Margarito had loaded gloves, every punch he landed early in the fight would have taken more out of Cotto, breaking him down and making it much easier to land more power shots as the fight wore on, and accumulating MUCH greater damage to Miguel. Perhaps Cotto wouldn't have been broken down so badly by the mid rounds if Margarito wasn't hitting him with bricks? I mean Cotto has tired in the championship rounds before obviously, but he was clearly schooling Margarito for the first 5 and a half rounds, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have continued to do so over the course of the fight if Margarito wasn't in fact cheating.
I'm starting to wonder if you actually saw the fight. Or if you have seen them fight previously. Margarito broke Cotto's nose in the 2nd round. That and the constant pressure Margarito applied are what led to Cotto being broken down. Why is that so hard to accept? Yes Cotto was taking Margarito to school in the first half. But Margarito has always been a slow starter. It was only a matter of time before he got started.
There is no proof Margarito cheated in the Cotto fight. It's stupidity to even bring it up. I mean come on. When does common sense kick in? If Margarito indeed had loaded gloves do you seriously think Cotto would be able to take 267 punches? Hell no! 267 punches is a lot of punches without loaded gloves. With loaded gloves it's insane. There is no way possible he takes even 150 from the naturally bigger man if the gloves were loaded
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
No matter, cheat against Cotto or not, he used plaster brass knuckle, which are potentially deadly weapons. Ask Billy Collin SR, ask Luis Resto. This is not forgivable just because he didn't have time to use them.
That makes no muthafukkin sense. Rather he used them or not he still used them? What the fukk?
Yes it makes sense: We are not 100% sure he had it against Cotto though the doubts are legitimates. However, he had the intention to use it against Mosley.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
Work on your reading comprehension dude. I never said he won because he cheated, all I said was that there is no doubt in my mind that he did indeed cheat.
Loaded gloves or not, Margacheato is going to give Cotto problems any day of the week.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Does that not go both ways? I mean i have yet to see any proof that he cheated against Cotto. I know Cotto was the favorite going in. And he has his loyal fan base. So it's easy for them to blame it on cheating. But lets be realistic. Cotto took 237 power punches in that fight. From a naturally bigger man. Can that not be the reason he lost? Everything else has been speculation and accusations. Yeah I'm sure what Kizer is really doing is covering his own ass. But it don't change the fact that Nevada crushes California in fights held. So it's easy to see how they would do a better job at monitoring hand wraps than California.
Hey, only MargaCHEATO and his slimey trainers know if he cheated against Cotto or not. But as fans, and as cognitive beings, we can make up out own minds. And I believe the average, intelligent fan realizes that a guy wouldn't bust his ass for 15 years fighting on smaller cards for "decent" pay days, finally establish his name so that he was a marquee fighter capable of making big money, THEN suddenly start cheating. That makes no sense.
Why would Margacheato and his camp risk his career at this point by cheating in such a HUGE marquee fight? The answer is simple: Because they thought they could get away with it. Why would they think they could get away with it? The same reason why these guys who get busted for performance enhancing drugs think they can get away with it: because they've gotten away with it in the past.
You show me someone who truely believes Margacheato has never cheated before the Mosley fight, and I'll show you a numbskull.
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
"cognitive beings" Did some one call me a cognitive being? :o :confused: :o
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
That makes no muthafukkin sense. Rather he used them or not he still used them? What the fukk?
Once again man, work on your reading comprehension.
And the way in which Margacheato beat Cotto would greatly benefit from loaded gloves. Like you say, Cotto was doing good but wilted under the punishment Margarito dished out on him. So there is a HUGE questionmark there as to whether or not Cotto would have been able to withstand Margacheato's blows had he not loaded them. Margacheato landed a ton of powershots, but most were after Cotto was wore down. So whether you like it or not, that fight is always going to have a huge question mark by it. And I think most people know the truth about it.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Perception is everything, he is going into a fight with Mosley with loaded gloves who in the past was beaten by Cotto, the same Cotto that he just knocked out so why was his gloves loaded against Mosley. It is a fact they were loaded for the Mosley fight so it's easy to ASSUME they were when he fought Cotto.
I don't think he should be licensed, he was caught cheating red handed in a combat sport which could be deadly without the cheating. He could become a Spanish speaking announcer in Mexico but in the U.S. they shouldn't let him or his trainer have anything to do in boxing.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
Work on your reading comprehension dude. I never said he won because he cheated,
all I said was that there is no doubt in my mind that he did indeed cheat.
Loaded gloves or not, Margacheato is going to give Cotto problems any day of the week.
I wasn't aware you were present during the wrapping of hands. You should of notified some one about the loaded wraps. Seriously saying Margarito cheated cuz he beat a fighter he wasn't suppose to beat is pretty moronic. You have no facts to back up your opinion.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
237 "concrete" loaded power punches. WHo knows what would have happened had Margarito not cheated(an unless you are completely nieve, he did cheat) I am sure getting slugged with plaster hands had some effect on Cotto's strategy and ability to absorb his punches.
Margarito committed an unforgivable sin. Look what he did to both Cintron and Cotto's careers prior to him finally getting caught.
This kind of cheating is dangerous and deserves a life time ban.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
Work on your reading comprehension dude. I never said he won because he cheated,
all I said was that there is no doubt in my mind that he did indeed cheat.
Loaded gloves or not, Margacheato is going to give Cotto problems any day of the week.
I wasn't aware you were present during the wrapping of hands. You should of notified some one about the loaded wraps. Seriously saying Margarito cheated cuz he beat a fighter he wasn't suppose to beat is pretty moronic. You have no facts to back up your opinion.
Now I understand why everyone picked on Xadu... :D
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
237 "concrete" loaded power punches. WHo knows what would have happened had Margarito not cheated(an unless you are completely nieve, he did cheat) I am sure getting slugged with plaster hands had some effect on Cotto's strategy and ability to absorb his punches.
Margarito committed an unforgivable sin. Look what he did to both Cintron and Cotto's careers prior to him finally getting caught.
This kind of cheating is dangerous and deserves a life time ban.
If the gloves were indeed loaded there is no way possible Cotto would of been capable of taking even "100 concrete" punches. No way. Anybody who's ever boxed before would tell you that.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
So pretty much what your saying is the 237 power punches Cotto took from Margarito had nothing to do with him losing, right? It was all the wraps. If the wraps weren't loaded Cotto would of shrug them 267 total punches like nothing, right?
237 "concrete" loaded power punches. WHo knows what would have happened had Margarito not cheated(an unless you are completely nieve, he did cheat) I am sure getting slugged with plaster hands had some effect on Cotto's strategy and ability to absorb his punches.
Margarito committed an unforgivable sin. Look what he did to both Cintron and Cotto's careers prior to him finally getting caught.
This kind of cheating is dangerous and deserves a life time ban.
If the gloves were indeed loaded there is no way possible Cotto would of been capable of taking even "100 concrete" punches. No way. Anybody who's ever boxed before would tell you that.
It all depends to what extent plaster was being used in his wraps though. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's on par with the Luis Resto fight as far loaded gloves go, that was just grotesque... But take a look at Margarito's punching form, I think anyone who's ever boxed could also tell you that's he's technically quite poor, he is basically an arm puncher with very little natural athletecism. Obviously that's not to say the guy has no power, he's KO'ed decent fighters way back, you have to give him some benefit of the doubt.. But Shane Mosley never actually hurt Cotto, and he landed plenty of power shots on him when they fought. Miguel actually has/had a pretty good chin once he moved up to 147, and massive heart. To say he couldn't have possibly taken that many punches from loaded gloves is kind of a stretch. It's just as easy to argue that Margarito was only able to land so many punches, and hurt Miguel with the type of punches he was landing, because he had highly illegal wraps. Not to mention the fact that it just doesn't make sense he wouldn't cheat in that fight, and then suddenly decide to against Mosley who had lost to Cotto and was considered well past it.
Re: Rafael on Margarito's license
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
237 "concrete" loaded power punches. WHo knows what would have happened had Margarito not cheated(an unless you are completely nieve, he did cheat) I am sure getting slugged with plaster hands had some effect on Cotto's strategy and ability to absorb his punches.
Margarito committed an unforgivable sin. Look what he did to both Cintron and Cotto's careers prior to him finally getting caught.
This kind of cheating is dangerous and deserves a life time ban.
If the gloves were indeed loaded there is no way possible Cotto would of been capable of taking even "100 concrete" punches. No way. Anybody who's ever boxed before would tell you that.
It all depends to what extent plaster was being used in his wraps though. I don't think anyone is suggesting it's on par with the Luis Resto fight as far loaded gloves go, that was just grotesque... But take a look at Margarito's punching form, I think anyone who's ever boxed could also tell you that's he's technically quite poor, he is basically an arm puncher with very little natural athletecism. Obviously that's not to say the guy has no power, he's KO'ed decent fighters way back, you have to give him some benefit of the doubt.. But Shane Mosley never actually hurt Cotto, and he landed plenty of power shots on him when they fought. Miguel actually has/had a pretty good chin once he moved up to 147, and massive heart. To say he couldn't have possibly taken that many punches from loaded gloves is kind of a stretch. It's just as easy to argue that Margarito was only able to land so many punches, and hurt Miguel with the type of punches he was landing, because he had highly illegal wraps. Not to mention the fact that it just doesn't make sense he wouldn't cheat in that fight, and then suddenly decide to against Mosley who had lost to Cotto and was considered well past it.
All them points (Not saying they don't make sense) are pretty much design to look for a reason to say he's guilty. To much thought into it makes things confusing. Cuz sometimes there's just no answer
Case in point.
I personally think there isn't difference in power between Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto. I rated it the same despite Mosley coming from a smaller weight class. Why is it that Mosley was able to stop Margarito and Cotto couldn't? Mosley landed 118 power punches on Antonio. While Miguel landed 179. I acknowledge the fact that a lot of Cotto's punches in the second half of the fight were punches landed while on the move. While Mosley pretty much set and fired all night. So there's a difference in impact. But that was in the second half. Nobody is going to tell me Cotto didn't tee off on Margarito with full impact punches that landed flush during the first half of the fight. Cuz he did. Plenty of times. And nothing. Margarito soaked them up and kept coming. Yet he had trouble taking pretty much anything from Mosley? Why? Was Margarito's chin loaded for the Cotto fight but not Mosley's? I mean come on. Like I said there just ain't no answer sometimes
