Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.
Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.
When I say speed, I don't mean in the Khan/ Malinagi 100 punches a second mould, more of the speed he throws his power shots. He has such snap on them and they come from different angles.
I'm still not convinced on Khans power, I think it's more the volume of punches that overwhelms fighters.I don't think Kotlenik got hurt once by Khan, haven't seen the fight for a while, but I remember lots of punches to the gloves by Khan.
Yeah Kotelnik has a hard style to break through. He covers up very well and he doesn't leave himself open much. Khan's power has looked great at times when an opponent has walked onto a shot or when he's landed 3 or 4 clean at a time. He'll struggle to do that against the top guys, unless they are gung-ho. I think he could look brilliant against Maidana personally, but can see the argument for him getting knocked out.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
Mate you got the wrong end of the stick, i said Souleymane M'baye was one of the worst title holders in recent times not Andriy Kotelnik.
Although thats not saying alot about Andriy Kotelnik, who couldn't beat him in 2 fights. As i've stated to me Andriy Kotelnik isn't bad technically and he's got a decent defense, but other than that he's quite mediocre.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
Mate you got the wrong end of the stick, i said Souleymane M'baye was one of the worst title holders in recent times not Andriy Kotelnik.
Although thats not saying alot about Andriy Kotelnik, who couldn't beat him in 2 fights. As i've stated to me Andriy Kotelnik isn't bad technically and he's got a decent defense, but other than that he's quite mediocre.
Ahhhh. It all becomes clear now
;D
Sorry.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
He's been eyeing up Jordan, and claimed meeting Paris Hilton was like meeting Muhammad Ali. Same old Amir Khan it seems to me ;D
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
He's been eyeing up Jordan, and claimed meeting Paris Hilton was like meeting Muhammad Ali. Same old Amir Khan it seems to me ;D
Yeah saw that in the paper. He's obviously a classy guy. ;D
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
One of the best posts i've read on here in a while (with the exception of VD's gym girl advice). Only thing i would argue with is what you say about Malignaggi being on the slide. Plenty of people have said this lately, but it's not true imo. He was coming off what were probably his two best performances of his career both against Juan Diaz. The rest is great though. ;D
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
One of the best posts i've read on here in a while (with the exception of VD's gym girl advice). Only thing i would argue with is what you say about Malignaggi being on the slide. Plenty of people have said this lately, but it's not true imo. He was coming off what were probably his two best performances of his career both against Juan Diaz. The rest is great though. ;D
Ignore Ono, I especially agree with the part about Malinaggi! ;D
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
As many times as those kinds of fighters are crowd favorites and people are quick to make then number one, history has shown time and time again it takes more then just the ability to take a punch and KO power that make you number 1.
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
