Notice Ortiz did not have a response or clue when Floyd asked him how he was going to beat him. Hope Ortiz pulls it off.
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Notice Ortiz did not have a response or clue when Floyd asked him how he was going to beat him. Hope Ortiz pulls it off.
I'm not harshing as much on this now. Ortiz has earned his role in a big one. I think we need to keep perspective in that Ortiz was almost being written off with no heart, no chin and no desire prior to exposing a still somewhat green Berto. It was a fantastic win, but his flaws are still very present....he needs to spend more time looking at Floyd and less talking about how Max took his heart?! If Kellerman takes it...Floyd will own it and show it to him.
Ortiz looked ok and calm otherwise. Don't quite get the reference to Mayweather vs Chavez aside from the name. Mayweather emphasis's if a guy makes mistakes then they must pay. Thats not always true with him, he lets them coast and with Ortiz that could be not so wise. At the very end it was almost a "trying to touch gloves" moment when he asks to Mayweather who's going to hit Max first. Trying to find common ground. That comes right after Mayweather says he's seriously going to mess this kid up and laughs. I think he will.
You thing Ortiz is being too nice and respectful to Mayweather?
I think he sounds sound and unrehearsed when it comes to Mayweather. But maybe like he's not fully realized the next level he's on at all, still talking about others counting him out etc etc. Looking behind. Come to grips with the Berto win. Put a period on it and move to Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think he seriously needed another fight to stabilize before Mayweather, who's catching him exactly where he needs him. Buuuut...nothing like stoking a fire at its hottest. Keeping momentum. Shite...I'm really looking forward to this ?!
I love these Fcae Off things. They always seem to add a who new dynamic to my logic, like I'm now having to think on two levels. The Pre face-off has me thinking of Floyd's age and inactivity and the post Face-Off vid has me thinking of Ortiz' mental immaturity.
But I'm not necessarily saying that 'immaturity' is bad thing.... But it might be Man v.s Boy in ways unimaginable :-\
Ortiz is way out of his depth, its all new to him and just a walk in the park for Mayweather.
I completely agree. There is only one way to look at this fight. It's a good fight for Floyd at 147 given the other potential matchups; at the same time, it's not a competitive fight. Unfortunately, there just aren't very many competive fights for Floyd at 147. Credit to him, but there aren't. The odds in this fight are like 8-1, Floyd. If it's even close, it's a testament to either Floyd slipping a little or Victor being better than we thought. I believe Floyd stops Victor and when was the last time Floyd stopped anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I think that it is quite clear that Mayweather likes this kid. I remember Ortiz saying that Mayweather told him to keep his head up after the Maidana fight and gave him some other encouragement but even with this face off I think Floyd likes Ortiz and vice versa
Erm... 2 fights back.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI completely agree. There is only one way to look at this fight. It's a good fight for Floyd at 147 given the other potential matchups; at the same time, it's not a competitive fight. Unfortunately, there just aren't very many competive fights for Floyd at 147. Credit to him, but there aren't. The odds in this fight are like 8-1, Floyd. If it's even close, it's a testament to either Floyd slipping a little or Victor being better than we thought. I believe Floyd stops Victor and when was the last time Floyd stopped anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
To be fair Mayweather has a 61% stoppage ratio so it wouldn't be that crazy, he just tends to let guys survive (see JMM & Mosley both of whom he could've stopped) rather than take the risks late on to knock 'em out.
I disagree though, this is a competitive fight. Ortiz is so strong & looks tougher at 147 & I think he's got a shot, although I do favour Mayweather by stoppage.
Another thing that i've noticed about Mayweather's mentality that I absolutely love is that it has become more and more apparent (probably as a result of him settling down and 'fighting' a bit more) that Mayweather insists on asking the questions, HE has to hold council... both in the ring and outside of it. Not necessarily in an arrogant way but subtly, he seeks control.
Further to this, he asks questions that he already knows the answers to. While his opponent is figuring out the answer he has probaly exponentialy expanded on his quizing resistance two-fold.
He always fights progressively. He works a plan forward and it's almost impossible to fully break out of it.
If the questions he asks aren't traditionaly direct then there's usually a subliminal 'understanding' on part of the counterpart that questions will NEED to be answered imminently.
"What's your plan to beat me"... "Your gonna have to GET me to respect your fight-game, oh but you gone HAVE to..."
He just LOVES to plant the seed.
I used the term 'quizing resistance' for a reason. I could of said complex fight plan but that wouldn't of been revealing enough... I'll explain...
I've said before that Mayweather likes to get his opponent to think. To create doubt, or as Bernard Hopkins would put it; 'disappoint em'. In relation to how Floyd does it... Well it's kinda like getting your opponent 'on the go'. Sometimes it appears as if though he is making his counterpart belive that moving on to the next thing was thier idea. However of course, he is always a step ahead, simply because he's the one pushing all the buttons. An amazingly intelligent protaganist. So you see, he's ability to win fights is based around his ability to fiddle with the mind as much as it is his athletic abilities.
If boxing finds someone big, strong and tough enough... With enough fire in their belly and naive, arrogant determination in their hearts. Someone happy to jump around throwing hell for leather at the man infront of them for 12 rounds and you might just find someone that Floyd is unable to convince into loosing.
I have an odd feeling Floyd goes all out once he catches-dazes Ortiz. Just see Ortiz highly hittable with that fast right but in contrast to JMM and Mosley late, a guy who remains almost a reckless willing threat. I dont think he'll shell up and accept fate until he's seeing the lights and Floyd will want to get him done and over with.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinErm... 2 fights back.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI completely agree. There is only one way to look at this fight. It's a good fight for Floyd at 147 given the other potential matchups; at the same time, it's not a competitive fight. Unfortunately, there just aren't very many competive fights for Floyd at 147. Credit to him, but there aren't. The odds in this fight are like 8-1, Floyd. If it's even close, it's a testament to either Floyd slipping a little or Victor being better than we thought. I believe Floyd stops Victor and when was the last time Floyd stopped anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
To be fair Mayweather has a 61% stoppage ratio so it wouldn't be that crazy, he just tends to let guys survive (see JMM & Mosley both of whom he could've stopped) rather than take the risks late on to knock 'em out.
I disagree though, this is a competitive fight. Ortiz is so strong & looks tougher at 147 & I think he's got a shot, although I do favour Mayweather by stoppage.
In his last seven fights, he's knocked out two opponents. For whatever reason, his KO power at the lighter weights hasn't translated as well at welterweight. I'm not sure of the reason for that, but it is what it is. He only has knocked out Sharmba Mitchell and Ricky Hatton at welterweight. Floyd isn't a knockout artist anymore if he ever was one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinErm... 2 fights back.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI completely agree. There is only one way to look at this fight. It's a good fight for Floyd at 147 given the other potential matchups; at the same time, it's not a competitive fight. Unfortunately, there just aren't very many competive fights for Floyd at 147. Credit to him, but there aren't. The odds in this fight are like 8-1, Floyd. If it's even close, it's a testament to either Floyd slipping a little or Victor being better than we thought. I believe Floyd stops Victor and when was the last time Floyd stopped anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
To be fair Mayweather has a 61% stoppage ratio so it wouldn't be that crazy, he just tends to let guys survive (see JMM & Mosley both of whom he could've stopped) rather than take the risks late on to knock 'em out.
I disagree though, this is a competitive fight. Ortiz is so strong & looks tougher at 147 & I think he's got a shot, although I do favour Mayweather by stoppage.
This isn't a competive fight. I say it's 85/15 or 80/20 Mayweather. Why do you think it is competitive? I sincerely don't.
Recently, Ortiz looked pretty good in one fight! But, let's not get crazy here, during that fight, he was knocked down multiple times and for most of the fight, he fought rather sloppily. He won it because he wanted it more. Also, the fight before that he scraped by Lamont Peterson, and the one before that, he quit against Maidana. Furthermore, he has only fought at welterweight for one fight and he is only 24. All that adds up to a big-time underdog. Trust me - there is a reason the odds are something like 8-1 against him.
On your first point, yes he's only KO'd 2 of his last 7, but Judah cheated to avoid getting stopped & I think both Mosley & Marquez were there for the taking. He's clearly got some power at the weight to be able to hurt (with the exception of JMM) naturally bigger men. Also, he started his career at 130. Very few guys carry power up through multiple weights like that. Even people like Duran, Arguello & Hearns saw their concussive power fall away as they climbed the weights. I agree Floyd never was a KO artist, but a 61% KO ratio for a man who's never been a huge puncher is impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I think Ortiz' power, workrate & physical strength could prove crucial. Mayweather also hasn't fought in how long & he's 35 in February.
On your last point, you've completely re-written history. He beat a man who was overwhelmingly favoured to beat him & got off the floor to do it. Whatever else people say about Berto he has got speed & power. Peterson is a much better fighter than he gets credit for, I thought his fight with Bradley saw some of the worst scorecards I've seen turned in in years & I still thought Ortiz beat him. He also beat 4 guys after the Maidana loss so that was not the fight before.
Don't get me wrong, I favour PBF to win & think it will be a TKO, but Ortiz is a live dog for me.
He'll be a live dog in as much as Adamek is a live dog against Vitali Klitschko. He's got a chance - like I said 80/20 85/15 - but, he's a big time underdog.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinOn your first point, yes he's only KO'd 2 of his last 7, but Judah cheated to avoid getting stopped & I think both Mosley & Marquez were there for the taking. He's clearly got some power at the weight to be able to hurt (with the exception of JMM) naturally bigger men. Also, he started his career at 130. Very few guys carry power up through multiple weights like that. Even people like Duran, Arguello & Hearns saw their concussive power fall away as they climbed the weights. I agree Floyd never was a KO artist, but a 61% KO ratio for a man who's never been a huge puncher is impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I think Ortiz' power, workrate & physical strength could prove crucial. Mayweather also hasn't fought in how long & he's 35 in February.
On your last point, you've completely re-written history. He beat a man who was overwhelmingly favoured to beat him & got off the floor to do it. Whatever else people say about Berto he has got speed & power. Peterson is a much better fighter than he gets credit for, I thought his fight with Bradley saw some of the worst scorecards I've seen turned in in years & I still thought Ortiz beat him. He also beat 4 guys after the Maidana loss so that was not the fight before.
Don't get me wrong, I favour PBF to win & think it will be a TKO, but Ortiz is a live dog for me.
It's difficult not to sound like I'm putting Ortiz down. I didn't mean to be to such an extent. He's a top level guy. He showed grit and guts beating Berto and I commend him for it. Truthfully, my whole opinion of him changed from that night. And although he's set to make a ton of money against Floyd, I still give him credit for taking the fight because even after beating Berto, Ortiz may still be fragile mentally, and a hard KO could be devestating to his career. At the end of the day, I'm not 100% convinced he's surging with confidence even after the Berto fight. I'd like to see Ortiz develop for a few years fighting the Lamont Peterson's of the world before jumping into the ring with Floyd Mayweather, possibly the greatest boxer on the planet.
My point only is that if he was having trouble with Lamont Peterson, he ain't beating Floyd Mayweather, no matter if you rank Peterson where I rank him or where you rank him. Add to that he is still pretty green and young (he may not even be in his prime yet), and you have the makings of an a*s kicking. That's all I'm saying. Do you want to put a sig bet on Mayweather stopping him within 9 or 10?
Not really because I think that Mayweather stops him in the 8th or 9th ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratIt's difficult not to sound like I'm putting Ortiz down. I didn't mean to be. He's a top level guy. He showed grit and guts beating Berto and I commend him for it. My point only is that if he was having trouble with Lamont Peterson, he ain't beating Floyd Mayweather, no matter if you rank Peterson where I rank him or where you rank him. Add to that he is still pretty green and young (he may not even be in his prime yet), and you have the makings of an a*s kicking. That's all I'm saying. Do you want to put a sig bet on Mayweather stopping him within 9 or 10?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinOn your first point, yes he's only KO'd 2 of his last 7, but Judah cheated to avoid getting stopped & I think both Mosley & Marquez were there for the taking. He's clearly got some power at the weight to be able to hurt (with the exception of JMM) naturally bigger men. Also, he started his career at 130. Very few guys carry power up through multiple weights like that. Even people like Duran, Arguello & Hearns saw their concussive power fall away as they climbed the weights. I agree Floyd never was a KO artist, but a 61% KO ratio for a man who's never been a huge puncher is impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I think Ortiz' power, workrate & physical strength could prove crucial. Mayweather also hasn't fought in how long & he's 35 in February.
On your last point, you've completely re-written history. He beat a man who was overwhelmingly favoured to beat him & got off the floor to do it. Whatever else people say about Berto he has got speed & power. Peterson is a much better fighter than he gets credit for, I thought his fight with Bradley saw some of the worst scorecards I've seen turned in in years & I still thought Ortiz beat him. He also beat 4 guys after the Maidana loss so that was not the fight before.
Don't get me wrong, I favour PBF to win & think it will be a TKO, but Ortiz is a live dog for me.
I just think that he has a decent chance because of his physical gifts & that Mayweather imo is some years past his physical peak. I think Ortiz is at his prime & can cause problems given Mayweather's lay off. But if Mayweather is anywhere near where he was against Mosley than he'll beat the shit out of Ortiz.