Same sex marriage

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

No big issue let them do what they want to show their commitment, it also helps them when someone dies as there are legal rights within the marriage that couples living together do not have.

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"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, they can call it a legal union or whatever, but it's not a marriage.

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In a legal sense all a marriage is, is a financial contract. I don't think that churches should be forced to allow gay marriage, but I also don't believe that they should be prevented from doing so either. I really don't see the issue you have with it. Being gay is not a disease or an addiction, some people are born that way. If a church determines that marriage to them is between two consenting adults, then what's the problem?

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I'm not trying to debate this, but for the most part the gay lifestyle is a choice, and it's also a psychosomatic form of schizophrenia. The problem I have is they want special rights, and to be seen as "normal", and they're not. Furthermore, if they'd keep that happy horseshit to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem, but no, they've got to stick it in everyone's face.

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They are not asking for special rights anymore than what my wife and I have with our marriage which has nothing to do with religion.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

No big issue let them do what they want to show their commitment, it also helps them when someone dies as there are legal rights within the marriage that couples living together do not have.

---

"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, they can call it a legal union or whatever, but it's not a marriage.

---

In a legal sense all a marriage is, is a financial contract. I don't think that churches should be forced to allow gay marriage, but I also don't believe that they should be prevented from doing so either. I really don't see the issue you have with it. Being gay is not a disease or an addiction, some people are born that way. If a church determines that marriage to them is between two consenting adults, then what's the problem?

---

I'm not trying to debate this, but for the most part the gay lifestyle is a choice, and it's also a psychosomatic form of schizophrenia. The problem I have is they want special rights, and to be seen as "normal", and they're not. Furthermore, if they'd keep that happy horseshit to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem, but no, they've got to stick it in everyone's face.

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They are not asking for special rights anymore than what my wife and I have with our marriage which has nothing to do with religion.

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I strongly disagree with this. The gay rights lobby, along with the secular atheist lobby are the most militant and vocal in all of public life.

They actively seek to undermine Christian values at every turn, taking people and organisations to court constantly in order to score victories over them

Some recent examples are the undercover gay couple in the UK who made a booking in a Christian guesthouse to stay. The tiny family run guesthouse, designed for use by Christians had a policy of not allowing unmarried couples to share a double room. It held for straight couples too. They also didn't allow gay people to share rooms either as it contradicts their biblical beliefs.

This guesthouse was targeted by the gay lobby, a gay couple booked a room, just so that they could be turned away and then take the guesthouse to court and cite how offended they were.

In America a Christian therapist was approached by a gay man, who asked her to cure him of his homosexuality. In actual fact he was secretly recording the meetings so he could sue her in court for causing emotional distress and homophobia.

Such moves are not new either. Most people have heard of the Scopes Monkey trial in the early 1900's where a science teacher was taken to court for teaching evolution in schools. Most people seem to think he was innocent teacher who was persecuted by the the primitive, bigoted moral brigade of the day.

In fact he was an active member of the ACLU and deliberately claimed he taught evolution in order to force the trial through. He actually never even taught it.

It's always been the strategy to militantly advance gay and secular rights through the law courts, always seeking selective possibilities to undermine Christianity wherever possible.

Only last week here in the UK an atheist liberal democrat counciller won a court ruling against his local council because they have always followed the tradition of starting meeting with prayers. He said it offended his atheism even though the prayers were entirely voluntary and he did not have to attend. He was the one being intolerent but obviously the courts ruled in his favour as they always do. Again, it's just one example of a much larger undermining process and the ever hastening march towards the militant secularisation of society.

Bilbo that is utter bollocks

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

No big issue let them do what they want to show their commitment, it also helps them when someone dies as there are legal rights within the marriage that couples living together do not have.

---

"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, they can call it a legal union or whatever, but it's not a marriage.

---

In a legal sense all a marriage is, is a financial contract. I don't think that churches should be forced to allow gay marriage, but I also don't believe that they should be prevented from doing so either. I really don't see the issue you have with it. Being gay is not a disease or an addiction, some people are born that way. If a church determines that marriage to them is between two consenting adults, then what's the problem?

---

I'm not trying to debate this, but for the most part the gay lifestyle is a choice, and it's also a psychosomatic form of schizophrenia. The problem I have is they want special rights, and to be seen as "normal", and they're not. Furthermore, if they'd keep that happy horseshit to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem, but no, they've got to stick it in everyone's face.

---

They are not asking for special rights anymore than what my wife and I have with our marriage which has nothing to do with religion.

---

I strongly disagree with this. The gay rights lobby, along with the secular atheist lobby are the most militant and vocal in all of public life.

They actively seek to undermine Christian values at every turn, taking people and organisations to court constantly in order to score victories over them

Some recent examples are the undercover gay couple in the UK who made a booking in a Christian guesthouse to stay. The tiny family run guesthouse, designed for use by Christians had a policy of not allowing unmarried couples to share a double room. It held for straight couples too. They also didn't allow gay people to share rooms either as it contradicts their biblical beliefs.

This guesthouse was targeted by the gay lobby, a gay couple booked a room, just so that they could be turned away and then take the guesthouse to court and cite how offended they were.

In America a Christian therapist was approached by a gay man, who asked her to cure him of his homosexuality. In actual fact he was secretly recording the meetings so he could sue her in court for causing emotional distress and homophobia.

Such moves are not new either. Most people have heard of the Scopes Monkey trial in the early 1900's where a science teacher was taken to court for teaching evolution in schools. Most people seem to think he was innocent teacher who was persecuted by the the primitive, bigoted moral brigade of the day.

In fact he was an active member of the ACLU and deliberately claimed he taught evolution in order to force the trial through. He actually never even taught it.

It's always been the strategy to militantly advance gay and secular rights through the law courts, always seeking selective possibilities to undermine Christianity wherever possible.

Only last week here in the UK an atheist liberal democrat counciller won a court ruling against his local council because they have always followed the tradition of starting meeting with prayers. He said it offended his atheism even though the prayers were entirely voluntary and he did not have to attend. He was the one being intolerent but obviously the courts ruled in his favour as they always do. Again, it's just one example of a much larger undermining process and the ever hastening march towards the militant secularisation of society.

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Society should be secular, people should be allowed to worship as they see fit as long as they are not causing harm to other people, or other people's property. You can sue people for homophobia in the UK? That's very strange. I don't see how either case would yield advancement of militant reform.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

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So are you offended by people that cheat on their spouses, or in fact simply lust over other people's spouses?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

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So are you offended by people that cheat on their spouses, or in fact simply lust over other people's spouses?

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I'm not sure what point you are making? I don't have an opinion either way about what people get up to, including gay people, and religious people. I am against the forcing of other people's opinions onto society however.

If people want to have same sex relationships, or extra marital affairs, or fuck their siblings, their pets etc. Then fine, do what you want.

But when they try to make it so everybody else has to embrace their lifestyle and taking to court those who disapprove so that they suddenly become criminalised then I am entirely against that.

Yes, a couple have the right to be gay and live together. But equally other people have the right to believe that such a lifestyle is wrong.

Back to the original topic. I believe in civil partnerships with the couple having the same legal rights and tax breaks a straight couple would have. I am totally opposed to allowing same sex marriage in a Christian sense as it is explicitly clear that such a thing is in violation of what marriage is and nobody has the right to change another's faith and religion.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

---

You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

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So are you offended by people that cheat on their spouses, or in fact simply lust over other people's spouses?

---

I'm not sure what point you are making? I don't have an opinion either way about what people get up to, including gay people, and religious people. I am against the forcing of other people's opinions onto society however.

If people want to have same sex relationships, or extra marital affairs, or fuck their siblings, their pets etc. Then fine, do what you want.

But when they try to make it so everybody else has to embrace their lifestyle and taking to court those who disapprove so that they suddenly become criminalised then I am entirely against that.

Yes, a couple have the right to be gay and live together. But equally other people have the right to believe that such a lifestyle is wrong.

Back to the original topic. I believe in civil partnerships with the couple having the same legal rights and tax breaks a straight couple would have. I am totally opposed to allowing same sex marriage in a Christian sense as it is explicitly clear that such a thing is in violation of what marriage is and nobody has the right to change another's faith and religion.

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I can't speak for how it is in the UK, but civil unions in the US do not hold the same rights as marriage, for me that is where the problem lies. I do not have a Christian marriage, but I am legally married, does this violate what marriage is to you?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

No big issue let them do what they want to show their commitment, it also helps them when someone dies as there are legal rights within the marriage that couples living together do not have.

---

"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, they can call it a legal union or whatever, but it's not a marriage.

---

In a legal sense all a marriage is, is a financial contract. I don't think that churches should be forced to allow gay marriage, but I also don't believe that they should be prevented from doing so either. I really don't see the issue you have with it. Being gay is not a disease or an addiction, some people are born that way. If a church determines that marriage to them is between two consenting adults, then what's the problem?

---

I'm not trying to debate this, but for the most part the gay lifestyle is a choice, and it's also a psychosomatic form of schizophrenia. The problem I have is they want special rights, and to be seen as "normal", and they're not. Furthermore, if they'd keep that happy horseshit to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem, but no, they've got to stick it in everyone's face.

---

They are not asking for special rights anymore than what my wife and I have with our marriage which has nothing to do with religion.

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Yeah, that's what they want, but the problem is they aren't man and wife, and BTW, my opinion has nothing to do with religion.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

No big issue let them do what they want to show their commitment, it also helps them when someone dies as there are legal rights within the marriage that couples living together do not have.

---

"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, they can call it a legal union or whatever, but it's not a marriage.

---

In a legal sense all a marriage is, is a financial contract. I don't think that churches should be forced to allow gay marriage, but I also don't believe that they should be prevented from doing so either. I really don't see the issue you have with it. Being gay is not a disease or an addiction, some people are born that way. If a church determines that marriage to them is between two consenting adults, then what's the problem?

---

I'm not trying to debate this, but for the most part the gay lifestyle is a choice, and it's also a psychosomatic form of schizophrenia. The problem I have is they want special rights, and to be seen as "normal", and they're not. Furthermore, if they'd keep that happy horseshit to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem, but no, they've got to stick it in everyone's face.

---

They are not asking for special rights anymore than what my wife and I have with our marriage which has nothing to do with religion.

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Yeah, that's what they want, but the problem is they aren't man and wife, and BTW, my opinion has nothing to do with religion.

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Nothing to do with religion? Then what is it ultimately, what are they offending of you?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

---

So are you offended by people that cheat on their spouses, or in fact simply lust over other people's spouses?

---

I'm not sure what point you are making? I don't have an opinion either way about what people get up to, including gay people, and religious people. I am against the forcing of other people's opinions onto society however.

If people want to have same sex relationships, or extra marital affairs, or fuck their siblings, their pets etc. Then fine, do what you want.

But when they try to make it so everybody else has to embrace their lifestyle and taking to court those who disapprove so that they suddenly become criminalised then I am entirely against that.

Yes, a couple have the right to be gay and live together. But equally other people have the right to believe that such a lifestyle is wrong.

Back to the original topic. I believe in civil partnerships with the couple having the same legal rights and tax breaks a straight couple would have. I am totally opposed to allowing same sex marriage in a Christian sense as it is explicitly clear that such a thing is in violation of what marriage is and nobody has the right to change another's faith and religion.

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I can't speak for how it is in the UK, but civil unions in the US do not hold the same rights as marriage, for me that is where the problem lies. I do not have a Christian marriage, but I am legally married, does this violate what marriage is to you?

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Then I am in agreement with you. I dont believe any group should suffer discrimination and gay couples wanting to commit to each other in lifelong partnership should absolutely have the same legal rights as straight couples.

They shouldn't have the right to be able to marry in a Christian church ceremony however as it clearly violates the biblical concept of what marriage is. Regarding other religions, it should be up to whatever that religion believes to be marriage that is upheld.

Again with your own marriage as I see it you are legally marrried and are married according to whatever religion or none that you married under.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

---

You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

---

So are you offended by people that cheat on their spouses, or in fact simply lust over other people's spouses?

---

I'm not sure what point you are making? I don't have an opinion either way about what people get up to, including gay people, and religious people. I am against the forcing of other people's opinions onto society however.

If people want to have same sex relationships, or extra marital affairs, or fuck their siblings, their pets etc. Then fine, do what you want.

But when they try to make it so everybody else has to embrace their lifestyle and taking to court those who disapprove so that they suddenly become criminalised then I am entirely against that.

Yes, a couple have the right to be gay and live together. But equally other people have the right to believe that such a lifestyle is wrong.

Back to the original topic. I believe in civil partnerships with the couple having the same legal rights and tax breaks a straight couple would have. I am totally opposed to allowing same sex marriage in a Christian sense as it is explicitly clear that such a thing is in violation of what marriage is and nobody has the right to change another's faith and religion.

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I can't speak for how it is in the UK, but civil unions in the US do not hold the same rights as marriage, for me that is where the problem lies. I do not have a Christian marriage, but I am legally married, does this violate what marriage is to you?

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Then I am in agreement with you. I dont believe any group should suffer discrimination and gay couples wanting to commit to each other in lifelong partnership should absolutely have the same legal rights as straight couples.

They shouldn't have the right to be able to marry in a Christian church ceremony however as it clearly violates the biblical concept of what marriage is. Regarding other religions, it should be up to whatever that religion believes to be marriage that is upheld.

Again with your own marriage as I see it you are legally marrried and are married according to whatever religion or none that you married under.

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So by that reasoning, they could be married as long as it was part of their belief system correct?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Utter,utter,utter bollocks.

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You are simply intolerant of Christianity now you have left it mate. Cognitive dissonance theory in action. That is all.

I am all for gay couples having exactly the same legal status and protections enshrined in law, the same as straight couples. A civil contract? Sure.

A Christian marriage? How can that be enforced, the Bible says it is wrong and unlawful.

The gay lobby is so intolerant. They have all the legal rights they need to live full and accepted lives. But they continue to push further.

In a true and free society everyone has the right to their beliefs. That includes those who don't agree with you.

If somebody wants to believe homosexuality is a sin, then that is their right.

It's actually such a warped view of equal rights that we have. If Christians behaved the same way they would be taking secular organisations to court and winning cases against David Attenborogh for offending them by describing evolution on his tv programs, they would be suing people for claiming God did not exist etc.

People have different opinions. It's part of life.

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You have again revealed your judgemental Christian arrogance in warping a debate to present yourself as a victim of atheism. Firstly you assumed that I was talking about the Gay lobby and not only that you decided for me what my position would be in the debate. My exclamation of bollocks was in response to your ludicrous ill informed assertion that prayers at council meetings were voluntary and that the atheist councillor was the one being intolerant.Having recently attended a council meeting as a football supporter trying to ensure our ground was bought back by the council, I was shocked that they started the meeting with a Christian prayer. There is no option to leave the chamber and I am sure it was not only atheists who were embarrassed but also the local Seikh councillor.

You seem to forget that you are the Status Quo, not the oppressed minority. Lecturing me on tolerance is a joke mate. You equated homosexuality, to incest and bestiality. You seem to think that it's OK to quote the Bible in dismissing the sanctioning of Gay marriage in a church, something I totally understand if you believe the Bible is God's word, it's shows consistency. The Bible is pretty unequivocal on the subject. The problem comes when you then dismiss the whole of Jesus's message on being no part of the world, and rendering Ceasar's things to Ceasar, by insisting Christianity should be part of Politics?

You also can not compare a scientific point of view that is accepted by the majority being talked about on TV as a reason to go to court. There are religious programs on television and plenty of channels for evangelical and other forms of Christian, Muslim and other beliefs however far out to be broadcast. You are the one with a warped view on equal rights. The only way to ensure equal respect is shown in the public sector is to keep religion out of politics.

You are extremely opinionated on many subjects of which you seem to have little experience. Perhaps your paranoid view of being a victim of secularisms endeavours to undermine your belief system is fed by your own doubts of your own ridiculous and peculiar version of Christianitys validity.Oh and give the amateur Psychology a rest, it is not very becoming.

And my microwave is dead, I need to get a new one be back soon. This is an interesting discussion I will return to it shortly, don't make a suicide bomber for the cause before I get back. Love you all!