Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
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Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
Agree with the both of you. Tyson struggled with Tony Tucker, Green and to an extent Ruddock(although that was already well past Tysons best form), but those guys had chins. I can't envision any way Wlad would avoid getting tagged early and hence losing by KO, simple as.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
The issue becomes whether Wlad could really avoid taking a SINGLE flush shot. It's well and good to say Tyson struggled with guys, but he would only need to land once against Wlad and the fight is over. Not to mention how easy it is to flip that arguement around and ask who Wlad has fought that measures up to Tyson... And he's still managed to get knocked senseless.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
And who has Wlad fought at any time in his career that is anything like Tyson. The only thing I alluded to concerning style is that Wlads is tailor made for a prime Tyson.
I'm no fan of Tyson or Wlad so I have no dog in a fight. Tyson imo makes short work.
And yeah Wlad is top notch is the lamest heavyweight era in history and he's been floored about 11 times during it.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
And who has Wlad fought at any time in his career that is anything like Tyson. The only thing I alluded to concerning style is that Wlads is tailor made for a prime Tyson.
I'm no fan of Tyson or Wlad so I have no dog in a fight. Tyson imo makes short work.
And yeah Wlad is top notch is the lamest heavyweight era in history and he's been floored about 11 times during it.
Tysons era was as bad if not worse IMO. Witherspoon was about the best of the rest and he never even fought him. Much of that was due to Bonecrusher sparking him. Then again if Bonecrusher had tried before the final 30 seconds against Tyson he might have sparked him too. I'd say Haye is probably as good as anyone Tyson fought barring Holmes and Holmes was way way past it when Tyson fought him.
How is Wlad tailor made for Tyson? He hated being clinched, Wlad is the best I've ever seen at it. I'm not defending his style, I wish Wlad would open up more, but for me his intelligence is his biggest enemy. He knows he can control fights without having to get involved in a brawl.
Wlad also hits very hard, If Evander can KO him Wlad would put him to sleep. I'm not knocking Evander here, I'd have him to beat pretty much anyone since the 70's on his best day and that even includes Lennox. But Evander wasn't a Huge puncher as a HW.
To talk about Wlads defeats isn't really appropriate either. If you watch the first Peter fight and then watch the second, for me they were the beginning and the end of a new learning curve for Wlad, a learning curve that made him the best HW in the world BY FAR! He got floored multiple times (3 i think) and got up to win the first fight which to me showed that Wlad really wanted it now, I don't actually think Wlad didn't want it as such but after winning the olympics I think he just expected it all to just come and forgot he really had to work, I mean he gassed against Purrity! Could anyone see him gassing now? I don't. By the time Peter and Wlad fought again Wlad had improved so much that Peter didn't stand a chance.
Now if that was "PRIME" Tyson fighting them 2 fights I'd go with him to beat Wlad in the first fight but by the time the second came along? I don't see it! Wlad has completely got over his losses now and is in his prime (just watch him capitulate this weekend now), he's confident (which is a huge part of it), he's as big as you can get without seriously losing athleticism and he knows how to use it. A few years ago I thought Vitali was the better of the 2 because of his toughness, BUT Wlads boxing skills are so much more superior I think he's better now than Vitali ever was!
Wlad now beats Tyson at any point who to me is nowhere near as good as the Legend suggests.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
Exactly these people are criticising Tyson’s opposition yet Wlad’s are embarrassingly lame. Even then Wlad is so cautious that he bores them to death before he goes in for the kill. Wlad is a good champion and can only beat what is put in front of him but keep it real. Tyson would flatten Wlad pre clinch or post clinch version.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
It would actually take Mike Tyson quite some time to stop Tony Thompson.
Not 12 rounds.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Picking a prime Tyson is not hating on Wlad. It's considering some obvious factors. People like to point out the riff-raff that Tyson faced. But he also faced some top opposition, and some tall guys with a lot of reach. Lyle pointed out Tyson's height and reach vs. Wlad's height and reach. But Tyson beat a very good (and hard-punching) Razor Ruddock, who was just as big and had more reach. End of that argument. People also choose to ignore that Wlad was knocked out several times earlier in his career. His chin is suspect. The fact that most bums who have faced him later on come into the ring scared shitless, doesn't exactly dispel the "weak chin" rap. He hasn't been challenged by someone of Tyson's skills, quickness, and explosive power. Someone mentioned Tyson getting KO'ed by Holyfield. That was due to an accumulation of punches. Holyfield fought Tyson without being intimidated, just like Buster Douglas did. They both hit Tyson with numerous punches, before Tyson went down. Doesn't mean Wlad can do it. Wlad fights more timidly, more defensively, taking advantage of scared shitless opposition. Cannot be compared to Tyson. Tyson would gladly take one or two (or three) right hands from Wlad on the way in to take off his head with one of those airborne left hooks. Tyson, as opposed to Wlad, did not have a suspect chin. In fact he had a pretty good chin. Accumulation of punches is what put him down. Boxing is a matter of styles. We're not arguing here who had the greater championship run, or better record. We're arguing who would win between a prime Tyson and a prime Wlad. Prime Tyson was full of head movement.... hard to hit. His bobbing and weaving got him inside many good fighters. Wlad would've been no exception. Wlad would've been scared to get tagged by Tyson, and for good reason. Tyson would've gladly risked a shot or two from Wlad. Heavyweight fights are often defined by a single punch. That's really all Tyson would need against Wlad.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
Exactly these people are criticising Tyson’s opposition yet Wlad’s are embarrassingly lame. Even then Wlad is so cautious that he bores them to death before he goes in for the kill. Wlad is a good champion and can only beat what is put in front of him but keep it real. Tyson would flatten Wlad pre clinch or post clinch version.
Wlad's opposition is bigger but definitely not better than that of Mike Tyson.
And Tony Thompson wouldn't last 6 rounds with Tyson, he's big and he's got guts, but he's slowwwwwwwwwww as a glacier.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
It would actually take Mike Tyson quite some time to stop Tony Thompson.
Tyson fighting a soutpaw!! Don't be silly! Tony thompson is better than james smith and buster douglas, trust me.....smith was outboxed by axel schultz, levi billups and marvis frazier lol
A motivated and fully fit thompson would not have lost to david bey, mike white, jesse ferguson and stefan tansgstad, nor would he look like a whale in the ring like buster often did, thompsons size and southpaw stance would have been awkward for tyson when you consider he did struggle at times with rangy tall fighters and he never fought southpaws!
Thompson put up a better fight against Wlad than Chambers, haye, Chagaev, Rahman, Peter II, Byrd II, Austin, Brock, and Brewster II. Chambers lasted longer, but never won a minute of any round.
The only opponent Wlad had more trouble against in the past 5 years was the elusive and skillful Ibragimov.
I also read he beat up Haye in sparring. You underrate thompson, for me he is the best american HW, i rate him higher than chambers, mitchell and kingpin johnson.
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
You underrate sultan.
Actually Mike Tyson loved this guy. Tyson said he had simliar hand speed to himself and nice skills. Tyson wanted to be in his corner for the Wlad fight but couldn't leave the state after legal issues.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/galler...SULTAN_jpg.jpg
Ibragimov aka Barney Rubble an olympic silver medallist (more than tyson ever got) who looked about as tough as cream pie.
Very good fighter! not flashy or anything but he fought smart...an intelligent fighter indeed and actually quite slick! Byrd v ibragimov would have been a chess match..
He was good enough to beat everyone not named Klitschko in my view. Always said he is the one heavy who should come back. He had fast hands, power, and could punch or box from his southpaw stance. His performances against briggs and an ageing holyfield were pretty much boxing clinics...and let's not forget he fought his way to a heavyweight unification fight! Wlad gave him massive respect in that fight (boring style clash) but klitschko was aware of iggies ability no doubt...
Oh well. Hope he is happy. took the money and got out with his health and respect in tact, good luck to him.
