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The Marquez that will be fighting Pac on Dec 8th will be the best version ever better than the chunky form that fought Mayweather. If Pac stops Marquez this saturday night i hope there will be no excuses the same way if Marquez destroys Pac no excuses either.
Fenster,
You know what I mean. Marquez has never been a walk in the park for manny.
I know many believe manny beat bradley but manny did loose and bradley was injured.
I dont like bradleys style and i definately prefer marquez but manny has issues with these fighters with a combination of his skills possibly fading and the skill of the opponent.
Marquez is 40 years old and bradley is still undefeated.
Marquez said in that interview - "Floyd would beat Manny because Floyd doesn't like to fight, he's defensive, so Manny would have to chase him. But Manny is the harder puncher"
He didn't say Floyd was better.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
Marquez had his biggest payday against mayweather and that was marquez biggest fight.
Lets not not discredit marquez by calling him chunky as he would have had the best preparation ever as the outcome of beating mayweather would have meant more by beating pacman at any stage.
I suppose you would have to be better than someone to beat them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Its true what marquez says..floyd is never going to want to fight, hes happy to outbox his opponents.
Marquez should know.
Marquez is a true warrior but he will never have the tools to beat floyd but perhaps the judges might favour him this time against manny and he can give it another go as that will be easy money for floyd.
As a fan, floyds inactivity is p&ssing me off.
As mentioned earlier a sergio martinez is possibly floyds biggest threat but i cant see floyd going up in weight again as its a huge disadvantage for someone who holds all the cards.
How do you define more "impressively"? Pac by the nature of his fighting style will always have more exciting wins...he is a storming fighter who looks for the knockouts. Floyd by comparision is a technician...he is just as happy winning easily on points as he would be winning in dramatic fashion. I personally enjoy watching Floyd dismantling his opponents with his brilliant technique and skills. You can also argue that Floyd fought a slightly less washed up version of Oscar and Mosley...and definitely a more rejuvenated Cotto (better prepared physically and metally after the Margo debacle). Hatton...whatever. So really i would only give Pac the edge to having fought a better Marquez. Styles make fights. And while we will never know who wins between these two until they fight...Floyd's style is all wrong for Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIf you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.
Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.
Another Floyd will beat Manny in my opinion - boxing aside he's the bigger man, that's why Manny needed to fuck with catchweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWeight makes all the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by impI think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIf you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.
Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.
Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.
Floyd:-
Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)
Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.
Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.
Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.
Weight makes all the difference.
Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.
Manny fought Marquez at 126, 130 and both weighing 142.
Floyd fought Marquez once at welterweight with a big size advantage. Marquez dropped back to 135 immediately following the fight.
Clearly Marquez had a big disadvantage against Floyd, so comparing Pac/Floyd where Marquez is concerned is pointless?
If he can't outbox them he'll outfight them and if they bigger and hydrated that's gonna be a lot tougher than the 'best p4p boxer' should find it.
So basically "Floyd would beat Manny because Boxing 101"? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I personally enjoy watching Floyd too. I think he's a great fighter.
However, if you want to judge him on paper with Pacquiao, unless you can argue that a knockout, knockdown or savage beatings aren't as impressive, to the majority of fans, as controlled calculated points victories, then you have to accept Pacquiao is the superior fighter based on common opponents.
I'm not saying Manny is a better fighter. I'm merely pointing out the collateral form says he's the better fighter. Fact.
Floyds and mannys style are like chalk and cheese.
Floyds style imho is more like art and is boxing skills at its greatest.
Mannys style is aggressive, quick but clumsy and can be duplicated.
If anyone had a choice, im sure you would want to leave the leave the ring with as minimal damage as possible while inflicting as much damage as possible.
Floyd does this very well. Manny doesnt.
Manny could possibly fight victor ortiz now and ko ortiz in the first round..are we not to take into the other factors such as the losses victor has incurred since floyd and the broken jaw he has received?
Floyd and manny have both beaten these common opponents in different ways.
And depending on your preference in style you have the choice in who you prefer has done the better job...
But floyd easily had the harder road..
@imp
You originally said Manny needs a 4th attempt at beating Marquez whereas Floyd would never need to rematch him. That is true. However, you have to accept that, if you judge fighters by common opponents then everyone has to be brought into the mix.
Judging Floyd/Pac through Marquez makes Floyd look far superior. Judging Floyd/Pac through Cotto makes Pac look far superior.
Does floyd or manny need to rematch cotto as it was decisive in both fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
The outcome would be the same.
BUT if manny fought cotto at his WEIGHT the majority would agree it would be harder for manny.
If floyd fought cotto at 147 it would still be same thing but possibly a late ko and even easier for floyd
Surely you would agree fenster that in each weight class that floyd fights cotto the outcome is the same but easier at 147?
On the other hand its harder for manny at the opponents weight and not weight drained...and that applies to oscar as well.
I cant say manny was more superior at beating cotto because cotto was at a disavantage in weight and he admits that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I think i addressed my thoughts on their common opponents. I think Floyd fought a better version of every fighter they each faced EXCEPT Marquez. So your point is mute IMO. I don't think Pac is a superior fighter in ANY way except maybe his style is more crowd pleasing. I actually think if you want to make a case for Pac's resume showing he is the better fighter...you could maybe make a case pointing out his performances in the lower weight classes against the likes of Morales and Barrera...not his performances with opponents he shares with Floyd.
I think using Marquez/Cotto to judge who is better between Floyd and Pac is ridiculous! Floyd brought Marquez up in weight and took full advantage. Pac brought Cotto down in weight and took full advantage. You can take it further...Floyd didn't make weight against Marquez...and Pac fought a Cotto that had not fully recovered both physically and psychologically from the Margo debacle. Floyd fought a bigger, better, healthier, more rejuvenated Cotto (not to mention much better coached). Pac has fought a prime Marquez at lower classes and a better suited Marquez at welterweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster