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The HW Era from Jack Johnson to Rocky Marciano was the best ever. Guys like Max Baer, Primo Carnera, JJ Braddock, Max Schmeling, Jess Willard, Jack Dempsey, Johnson, Firpo, Tunney, Galento, Sharkey, Walcott, Rex layne, Harry Kid matthews, these were the best and most tough HW's of any era.
In the early part of the 1900s there were generally about 5000 registered pro fighters in NYC. That is more than there are in the world today, or than have been at any time over the last 20 years or more. So, sure, you are going to have some less than stellar guys in that number.
In those days, however, you made your money from live gates, and people pay to see good fights. that is in direct contrast to the recent practice of pitting top guys against losers just so they get kos. But then, you had to fight to get paid. In my youth, the Olympic Auditorium made money doing fights, and had for years before, because Don "War A Week" Chargin made good fight. In the 1990s, that same arena lost money doing fights with popular Mexican fighters because they put them in with victims.
I guess it all depends on what you want to see isn't it.
@greynotsoold
You totally neglected to mention something very important in your figure here for 1900...
There WERE no amateur programs then! And these low level pro boxers fought for a nickel! They were side show freaks! That has nothing in common with what we NOW refer to as "professional" boxing. They were professional in name only!
Before professional boxers start fighting today they have already had a career, sometimes an enormous one at ammy. We call this a pedigree today.
Calling top contenders opponents today losers by comparison with the opponents of way in the past top contenders is immediately falsifiable by checking the records of these olden days KOed guys. They were losers too by your definition.
They didn't call Louis run the bum of the month club for nothing.
The difference today is that some of the guys you CALL bums today are actually decent boxers with decent records. In previous generations they were not only bummy boxers, but they were sometimes ACTUAL bums too!
Today's boxer is more of an elite athlete trained rigorously. Previous "pro" boxers sometimes worked an 8 hr shift and THEN trained with what little resources and energy and time they had left! Sorry but that simply doesn't compare with even generations like the 50's, 60's and 70's let alone the 80's+!
Today's boxer is more of an elite athlete trained rigorously. You are stupid beyond belief if you believe that. Chisroa was a joke against Fury. No way was he conditioned. He was just a punch bag. Are you blind or just ignorant.
Chisora's JOB is to train all day, every day for his fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So, TRANSLATION: DESPITE being well prepared for Fury, Chisora was unable to beat Fury because Fury is simply better than Chisora.
Props to Fury for beating a decent opponent like Chisora and proving his worth as a serious HW.
You like Frazier and Ali right?
Chisroa and Fury are basically the modern, stronger versions of each!
Your post get stupider everyday. The output of Chisora was worse than when he fought the first time. It was an abysmal effort. Do not compare him to Fraizier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerChisora's JOB is to train all day, every day for his fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So, TRANSLATION: DESPITE being well prepared for Fury, Chisora was unable to beat Fury because Fury is simply better than Chisora.
Props to Fury for beating a decent opponent like Chisora and proving his worth as a serious HW.
You like Frazier and Ali right?
Chisroa and Fury are basically the modern, stronger versions of each!
While we are on the subject of pitiful efforts Johnathan Banks against Target was embarrassing as well. For modern trained fighters who train full time, they are poor which is why Wlad is enjoying beating this crap year in year out. Easy money.
Antonio Tarver is 46 years old and has only fought 1ce a year for the last 5 years. He clearly isn't a serious contender anymore, but he was an excellent boxer and obviously still good enough to beat Banks who exposed a few frauds but was never a serious factor himself and is now a part-time boxer, full-time trainer!Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYour post get stupider everyday. The output of Chisora was worse than when he fought the first time. It was an abysmal effort. Do not compare him to Fraizier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerChisora's JOB is to train all day, every day for his fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So, TRANSLATION: DESPITE being well prepared for Fury, Chisora was unable to beat Fury because Fury is simply better than Chisora.
Props to Fury for beating a decent opponent like Chisora and proving his worth as a serious HW.
You like Frazier and Ali right?
Chisroa and Fury are basically the modern, stronger versions of each!
While we are on the subject of pitiful efforts Johnathan Banks against Target was embarrassing as well. For modern trained fighters who train full time, they are poor which is why Wlad is enjoying beating this crap year in year out. Easy money.
The correct comparison is champs+contenders to champs+contenders and social boxers to social boxers, past to present.
I don't care if you want to rubbish these 2 because for me it has little relevance!
Frazier and Ali were supposed to be the BEST!
On the contrary, it is in fact deplorable to compare Frazier FAVOURABLY against Chisora, who is in fact a SUPER-FRAZIER.
Chisora could not carry Joe's jockstrap.
I find that statement particularly amusing, considering Chisora is strong as an ox and Joe Frazier, there is a good chance would actually not quite be strong enough to support Chisora's jock strap!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
:D
You want to see Joe Frazier try to carry something? Why don't you google Joe Frazier - SuperStars program lol
How do you know Chisora is strong as an ox? Because he weighs heavier? Again you make the mistake of equating strength with weight as well as newer being better. Joe was in better condition than Chisora has ever been in his fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI find that statement particularly amusing, considering Chisora is strong as an ox and Joe Frazier, there is a good chance would actually not quite be strong enough to support Chisora's jock strap!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
:D
You want to see Joe Frazier try to carry something? Why don't you google Joe Frazier - SuperStars program lol
Joe was never in as good a condition as Chisora, don't be ridiculous! LOL, there was one time when Frazier was actually lean and 6-packed but that did not last long, normal Frazier was more chubbier than Chisora, just a smaller version.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHow do you know Chisora is strong as an ox? Because he weighs heavier? Again you make the mistake of equating strength with weight as well as newer being better. Joe was in better condition than Chisora has ever been in his fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI find that statement particularly amusing, considering Chisora is strong as an ox and Joe Frazier, there is a good chance would actually not quite be strong enough to support Chisora's jock strap!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
:D
You want to see Joe Frazier try to carry something? Why don't you google Joe Frazier - SuperStars program lol
But YOU make the mistake of equating being ripped with being in condition when that is demonstratably not so, same with being fat.
As for strength, I have NEVER equated heavy with strong, other than the fact the chances of being stronger when heavier are higher.
That's why I also say "x is heavier AND stronger than y", because they don't always go hand in hand. One thing that fat does NOT confer is strength!
However Chirsora lifts some hefty weights for his preparation, he is well muscled, built like a bull in fact and has more leverage. Frazier is diminutive, slender muscled and failed lifting weights that the average schoolboy today could TOY with.
They don't come much more UN-athletic than Joe Frazier. That's a fact!
Today, Joe and Clay would be viewed as they really were.. GROSSLY OUT OF SHAPE CRUISERWEIGHTS!
Take Frazier, make him a bit taller, sharpen his skills a bit, pump him full of steroids for about a year or so and THERE'S your Dereck Chisora! ;) LOL
Not Sure On How You're Looking At This
But, before Jack fought for the Heavyweight Championship, he stepped
into the Ring '60' times from August 1914 thru December 1918.
In 4 1/2 years as a Professional, Jack was fighting an average of '13' times
per year.
In those days, Barn-Storming bouts were taking place nearly every week.
The work was there, if you wanted it.
Joe Frazier was better conditioned than Chisora and had achieved more than chi's will ever do.
Joe Frazier at one point in his career had a 6-pack, meaning very little body fat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
As boxing specific conditioning goes, even with extra muscle and a bit of chub, Chisora is more conditioned than Joe ever was for boxing because of modern training.
Because of the enormous weight difference, without even checking it's obvious Frazier would have a higher punch output anyway.
But I would like to be punched by one of Joe's anyday than by one of Derecks.
You are so wrong that I feel embarrassed for you. I would love anyone to punch you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerJoe Frazier at one point in his career had a 6-pack, meaning very little body fat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
As boxing specific conditioning goes, even with extra muscle and a bit of chub, Chisora is more conditioned than Joe ever was for boxing because of modern training.
Because of the enormous weight difference, without even checking it's obvious Frazier would have a higher punch output anyway.
But I would like to be punched by one of Joe's anyday than by one of Derecks.
Forget the 6 pack and the weight look at what Joe achieved Chisora's mother would not support this argument so why are you?