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Re: End of year awards 2019
I frankly don't give a damn what you call it (clickbait, etc). The insinuation is that we're giving credence to Fake News sites.
I proceeded to show you where it's NOT Fake News... it's totally real.... and that should be the end of that.
But you're free to continue making of it what you will (as usual).
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Re: End of year awards 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Fighter of the Year: Naoya Inoue
FOTY: Inoue vs Donaire
Upset of the Year: Ruiz vs Joshua 1
Prospect of the Year: Vergil Ortiz (with a shout out to local boy Joseph Adorno)
Most Enjoyable KO (by far): Sam Maxwell vs Sabri Sediri
You must love the DAZN? All your favourites for the price of one regular PPV.
Well that may change if Hearn has any say in it. ;)
https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/01...to-50-a-month/
So from 10 to 20 to 50 a month. I think Eddies takin the piss with this as it's just near strong arming subscribers to the $100 annual commitment and would steer casuals away. I don't think Dazn has the open ended drawing and crossover power in the States to sustain it and we're not even talking production quality and consistency. Espn+ is 5 bucks a month with multi platforms app and cable.
Stop using clickbait sites for your boxing news (believe it or not we used to ban this troll site but i'm tired of swapping the original source material).
Surely you guys can recognise they steal quotes from other interviews then build their narrative around it? These people are not journalists. Why not just post the interview they stole from so people can understand the context?
Hey if it's one thing I'm rarely short of its an opinion ;D but I think I've been through enough material over the years and watched enough spotty DAZN since the very 1st week to have a general idea of how the ball bounces. Which part would you dispute really, the fact that a casual won't plop down 50 or even 20 to watch Jaime Munguia v Spike O'Sullivan and possible rate increases? Choppy production quality? Or that they have fewer toes aka platforms stables etc in the U.S market compared to espn PBC or Showtime working together. I don't loath Hearn frankly he's a funny guy but he's in it for the bank in the role of front man.
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Re: End of year awards 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Fighter of the Year: Naoya Inoue
FOTY: Inoue vs Donaire
Upset of the Year: Ruiz vs Joshua 1
Prospect of the Year: Vergil Ortiz (with a shout out to local boy Joseph Adorno)
Most Enjoyable KO (by far): Sam Maxwell vs Sabri Sediri
You must love the DAZN? All your favourites for the price of one regular PPV.
Well that may change if Hearn has any say in it. ;)
https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/01...to-50-a-month/
So from 10 to 20 to 50 a month. I think Eddies takin the piss with this as it's just near strong arming subscribers to the $100 annual commitment and would steer casuals away. I don't think Dazn has the open ended drawing and crossover power in the States to sustain it and we're not even talking production quality and consistency. Espn+ is 5 bucks a month with multi platforms app and cable.
Stop using clickbait sites for your boxing news (believe it or not we used to ban this troll site but i'm tired of swapping the original source material).
Surely you guys can recognise they steal quotes from other interviews then build their narrative around it? These people are not journalists. Why not just post the interview they stole from so people can understand the context?
Hey if it's one thing I'm rarely short of its an opinion ;D but I think I've been through enough material over the years and watched enough spotty DAZN since the very 1st week to have a general idea of how the ball bounces. Which part would you dispute really, the fact that a casual won't plop down 50 or even 20 to watch Jaime Munguia v Spike O'Sullivan and possible rate increases? Choppy production quality? Or that they have fewer toes aka platforms stables etc in the U.S market compared to espn PBC or Showtime working together. I don't loath Hearn frankly he's a funny guy but he's in it for the bank in the role of front man.
I merely suggested the original source with context should be posted not the clickbait site (as were the rules back in the day).
Hearn was quoted from a 30 minute interview with Chris Mannix. The context was Hearn promoting the value for money DAZN subscribers get. Hearn is a salesman. Hearn has ZERO authority in DAZN's pricing policy.
I specifically quoted your post so Tito wouldn't dive in acting like i've insulted his mother. I should have known better. That's all.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Hey... no issues, Fenster (really). I'll admit to not knowing about your rules about "clickbait sites". I figured if something seems like a credible bit of news... or interview... then it's fair game. The whole thing started with just a coincidental bit of timing where you had quipped something about the cost of DAZN vs PPV, and then I stumbled on to some comments from Hearn about suggesting to DAZN that they should raise their prices. We all know he has no authority there... but he's certainly a major player in the boxing promoting field. Is it wrong to surmise someone at DAZN could possibly get his ear bent a little by what Hearn has to say?
Please.... stop taking everything so fucking personally.
BTW.... NO amount of "context" explanation can erase the fact that Hearn said what he said. PLUS... in my original comment I added a wink, hoping someone like you wouldn't barge in and start scolding about "clickbait sites" and shit like that.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
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Re: End of year awards 2019
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Re: End of year awards 2019
don't worry, puerto rico will have another decent fighter sooner or later, nowhere as great as canelo, but at least decent
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Nah. We don't have the Hollywood-WBC-Mafia-GBP connections to manufacture bring along a star of that magnitude.
Nor do we have the athletic commissions in our back pocket that hand out slaps on the wrist for PED-cheating scum.
Nor do we have the shady judge connections to constantly steal fights from opponents.
The list goes on but why belabor the point? It's like.................. :beatdeadhorse:
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Nah. We don't have the Hollywood-WBC-Mafia-GBP connections to manufacture bring along a star of that magnitude.
Nor do we have the athletic commissions in our back pocket that hand out slaps on the wrist for PED-cheating scum.
Nor do we have the shady judge connections to constantly steal fights from opponents.
The list goes on but why belabor the point? It's like.................. :beatdeadhorse:
nah, you just don't have guys skilled enough or with enough heart to be a star of that magnitude yet
canelo just fights the fights. if you have a problem with the commisions, judges then take it up with them. canelo is just in there throwing and taking punches against some of the top names of this generations. all great have bad calls on their records. i am disappointed with the failed drug tests, but he served his time, others weren't even punished, and has continued his career
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Re: End of year awards 2019
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
that's why i said yet
remember canelo turned pro young so much of his early fights were development. he has fought a who's who in recent years. who would you be happy for him to fight next? say top three choices
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.
Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.
Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?
was jacobs shot? did canelo ruin ggg after the first fight, canelo had to take a catchweight to fight floyd, was lara shot? what about trout? lots of coddling going on there, not
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.
Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?
No one.
Well.... actually JCC Sr. did fight 40-some bums to kick off his career (a typical practice down yonder).
But after that he swept through a who's who list of fighters and actually EARNED his fame.
He did seem a bit obsessed with reaching 100 wins though..... and fought a few more tomato cans along the way. But it's hard to begrudge him that.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.
Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?
was jacobs shot? did canelo ruin ggg after the first fight, canelo had to take a catchweight to fight floyd, was lara shot? what about trout? lots of coddling going on there, not
I’ve already had this discussion with you. If you want my thoughts, go check our other discussion about it.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
that's why i said yet
remember canelo turned pro young so much of his early fights were development. he has fought a who's who in recent years. who would you be happy for him to fight next? say top three choices
I'll give you one in each division.
Beterbiev.
If Canelo wasn't the division-skipping pussy he is.... he'd go for Beterbiev. None of this "lame zebra picking off" nonsense if you want fans to take you seriously. If you gonna play that game, stay the hell away from 175.
Callum Smith.
Who does Canelo target at 168? Not the guy boxing fans want him to fight. Not the decent punching, big boy Callum Smith. But rather powder-puff punching Billy Joe Saunders. Meanwhile, someone like Smith just gets deafening silence.
Jermall Charlo.
Why doesn't Charlo's name ever come up? And please spare me this "oh Charlo has other commitments" B.S. Charlo is a heavy hitter who could easily derail the Canelo golden goose express.
Answer me this question... WHEN has Canelo ever ventured outside the friendly confines of Vegas/ Southern California (heavily Mexican)/ Texas (heavily Mexican) for a fight?? I'll end the suspense. ONCE.
Once in his whole bleeping career. When he went to New York to challenge the "dangerous" Rocky Fielding. Another deer in headlights with a trinket just waiting to be picked up.
I've respected many bonafide Mexican boxing stars in their day. Finito Lopez, MAB, even JCC Sr. But how Canelo's skipping and hopping through weight divisions, avoiding the dangerous opponents, is admired by anyone..... is anybody's guess.
But hey..... you've got the WBC churning out make-believe belts for him nearly on a daily basis. ;) ;)
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.
Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?
was jacobs shot? did canelo ruin ggg after the first fight, canelo had to take a catchweight to fight floyd, was lara shot? what about trout? lots of coddling going on there, not
I’ve already had this discussion with you. If you want my thoughts, go check our other discussion about it.
it was a reply to yourself and titofan, sorry for trying to spark some interest and discussion on a forum. keep dancing for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know
i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.
that's why i said yet
remember canelo turned pro young so much of his early fights were development. he has fought a who's who in recent years. who would you be happy for him to fight next? say top three choices
I'll give you one in each division.
Beterbiev.
If Canelo wasn't the division-skipping pussy he is.... he'd go for Beterbiev. None of this "lame zebra picking off" nonsense if you want fans to take you seriously. If you gonna play that game, stay the hell away from 175.
Callum Smith.
Who does Canelo target at 168? Not the guy boxing fans want him to fight. Not the decent punching, big boy Callum Smith. But rather powder-puff punching Billy Joe Saunders. Meanwhile, someone like Smith just gets deafening silence.
Jermall Charlo.
Why doesn't Charlo's name ever come up? And please spare me this "oh Charlo has other commitments" B.S. Charlo is a heavy hitter who could easily derail the Canelo golden goose express.
Answer me this question... WHEN has Canelo ever ventured outside the friendly confines of Vegas/ Southern California (heavily Mexican)/ Texas (heavily Mexican) for a fight?? I'll end the suspense. ONCE.
Once in his whole bleeping career. When he went to New York to challenge the "dangerous" Rocky Fielding. Another deer in headlights with a trinket just waiting to be picked up.
I've respected many bonafide Mexican boxing stars in their day. Finito Lopez, MAB, even JCC Sr. But how Canelo's skipping and hopping through weight divisions, avoiding the dangerous opponents, is admired by anyone..... is anybody's guess.
But hey..... you've got the WBC churning out make-believe belts for him nearly on a daily basis. ;) ;)
beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards? i would like to see the fight but can already see some fans criticising or making excuses if canelo won that beterbiev was too old, he is 35 now
callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder
jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on
how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world
i never stated that fielding was dangerous and never named him as an opponent i thought was quality, canelo did travel though and fighters don't tend to fight top opponents back to back to back these days
no other middleweights are putting their hand up to face kov, even now
the belts are irrelevant
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards?
This one is too easy. Answer: No. Why? Because none of the other top guys at 160 are pot-shotting lame zebras at higher divisions, only to go scurrying back to safety. Honestly..... you should've thought out your question better before asking it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world
You're killing me here, man. ;D Floyd?? That is the example you're going to bring here? Floyd?? Your overall argument is beyond weak, I'm afraid. There have been PLENTY of fighters who have not limited their careers to places where they're going to get obvious breaks, such as shady corrupt bought judges (ie: CJ Ross).... slap on the wrist punishments.... and all the obvious advantages Canelo will use to make sure he's playing with a stacked deck. And we haven't even touched on the weight games he plays. He'll never have my respect until he fights someone who's not either a) woefully undersized, b) over-the-hill, c) fatally flawed and exposed, d) woefully inferior, or e) lacking the power to knock over a house of cards. Wanting advantages might be the "real world", but in boxing you fight who they put in front of you, regardless of what the damn computer says about your chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder
jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on
Blah, blah, blah. Say what you will about Callum and Jermall. Point is Canelo won't seek them out, because they're THREATS. Team Canelo will not allow threats to possibly upend their grandiose master plan with the Ginger One. Canelo picks and chooses his targets ultra-carefully and if you don't see that as plain as day......... I'm afraid I can't help you.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Look man, I get it that you're a Canelo fan. He's a great fighter, not saying he's not. His fights are always exciting, because he's the type of guy who will bring it. But all the HYPE built up around him. All the advantages afforded him in every which way and form. The way his career has always been carefully orchestrated from the beginning. The way he skips up and down divisions to pick out the weak deer from the herd. The games he plays with catchweights. The way he avoided GGG for years by saying he wasn't a 160-pounder, trying to drag GGG to 154, only to show up and fight JCC Jr. at 170. The way he never leaves Vegas or Mexico to fight, where he knows he's got the judges in his pocket. The way he was exposed as a PED-cheat and got a slap on the wrist. Etc, etc, etc, etc.
This is not the way it used to be. I love stars who are genuine stars. Who have earned their way to the top.... winning some.... losing some. Not some coddled bozo who cherry picks and cheats.
Canelo is a manufactured star, because boxing wanted it that way.
That's why I'll always say..... f*ck Ginger.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards?
This one is too easy. Answer: No. Why?
Because none of the other top guys at 160 are pot-shotting lame zebras at higher divisions, only to go scurrying back to safety. Honestly..... you should've thought out your question better before asking it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world
You're killing me here, man. ;D Floyd?? That is the example you're going to bring here? Floyd?? Your overall argument is beyond weak, I'm afraid. There have been PLENTY of fighters who have not limited their careers to places where they're going to get obvious breaks, such as shady corrupt bought judges (ie: CJ Ross).... slap on the wrist punishments.... and all the obvious advantages Canelo will use to make sure he's playing with a stacked deck. And we haven't even touched on the weight games he plays. He'll never have my respect until he fights someone who's not either a) woefully undersized, b) over-the-hill, c) fatally flawed and exposed, d) woefully inferior, or e) lacking the power to knock over a house of cards. Wanting advantages might be the "real world", but in boxing you fight who they put in front of you, regardless of what the damn computer says about your chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder
jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on
Blah, blah, blah. Say what you will about Callum and Jermall. Point is Canelo won't seek them out, because they're THREATS. Team Canelo will not allow threats to possibly upend their grandiose master plan with the Ginger One. Canelo picks and chooses his targets ultra-carefully and if you don't see that as plain as day......... I'm afraid I can't help you.
i don't see ay other middleweights hurrying to fight kov, canelo has only had one fight there, how long have artur, and bivol gvozdyk been light heavies? they never fought kov, but you criticize canelo after one fight there, seems fair
lots of fighters get criticized for not travelling, if you have issues with the judges or commissions take it up with them, canelo just fights the fights. many fighters who reach a certain level play weight games of some kind, i don't agree with it but it is part of boxing, and opponents to have to accept them. were lara, trout, ggg, jacobs undersized? was ggg only over-the-hill after the first canelo fight? were trout, floyd, lara, ggg and jacobs fatally flawed and exposed or woefully inferior? granted some of them may have lacked power but boxing is not all about power. canelo does fight who is put infront of him
you see callum and jermall as threats, i see them as easy pickings. i can almost guarantee that if canelo fought each one after the other next and toppled them both you would use some of the excuses i mentioned to sully canelo's victories. hell if canelo chose to fight callum's daddy ryder next, you would probably lose your shit
remember this is a business and dazn may want to bring in some much needed cash, a fight in japan against murata would do that easy, it is a reason they also wanted ggg to fight murata in japan. canelo probably has some sway with the opponents he wants to fight but the guys signing the cheques also have influence
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Look man, I get it that you're a Canelo fan. He's a great fighter, not saying he's not. His fights are always exciting, because he's the type of guy who will bring it. But all the HYPE built up around him. All the advantages afforded him in every which way and form. The way his career has always been carefully orchestrated from the beginning. The way he skips up and down divisions to pick out the weak deer from the herd. The games he plays with catchweights. The way he avoided GGG for years by saying he wasn't a 160-pounder, trying to drag GGG to 154, only to show up and fight JCC Jr. at 170. The way he never leaves Vegas or Mexico to fight, where he knows he's got the judges in his pocket. The way he was exposed as a PED-cheat and got a slap on the wrist. Etc, etc, etc, etc.
This is not the way it used to be. I love stars who are genuine stars. Who have earned their way to the top.... winning some.... losing some. Not some coddled bozo who cherry picks and cheats.
Canelo is a manufactured star, because boxing wanted it that way.
That's why I'll always say..... f*ck Ginger.
every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages. if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner. catchweights have always been a part of boxing. he fought ggg at 160, it's sad he ruined ggg after the first fight. canelo has travelled. canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights. miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others
i feel canelo has earned his way to the top. winning some and losing some. i have already stated on this forum that i felt he lost the first ggg fight, but he fought him, then after the econd fight ggg was old, didn't see many criticizing sergiy d for fighting old man ggg. i have already stated that i am disappointed with the failed drug tests, but he served his punishment, some fighters weren't even punished for the same thing. since the trout fight onwards i have been impressed with canelo's record. sure there are a few gimmes, but all fighters have those, and aside from a few most have been rated opponents
if it was so easy to manufacture a boxing star they would be all over the place, canelo has to do his part, stay dedicated, take and give punches, train
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.
Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.
Sorry... empty argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.
Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
catchweights have always been a part of boxing.
Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
canelo has travelled.
This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.
Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.
Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.
Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others
Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.
Next argument.
Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.
I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.
Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.
Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.
Sorry... empty argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.
Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
catchweights have always been a part of boxing.
Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
canelo has travelled.
This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.
Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.
Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.
Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others
Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.
Next argument.
Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.
I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.
Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).
most fighters try to bend and break the rules where they think they can get away with it. i don' agree with it, but canelo is not the only one. there are a number of fighters who have recieved the benefits of catchweights or boil down for the weigh in but come in much heavier than their opponents. you keep saying opponents that pose no danger, but i don't hear you calling for jermall, andrade or ggg to jump two divisions to face what you consider a weak deer in kov, or any of them even having inclination or desire to jump up to lightheavy and face an eleider or even a joe smith. did jacobs, ggg, lara, floyd, trout pose no threat? canelo fights where the promoters put the fight, his opponents could decline the fight or their promoters could put up the money for the site, but canelo is in a position similar to what floyd had, where if you want to fight him, you either accept the disadvantages or move along. canelo was given a ban and served his time. rey vargas and julio martinez got nothing at all, among others
artur and bivol are busy? they get there eventually? but you expect canelo to face everyone there after only one fight in the division? double standards. if artur or bivol had signed to face kov in a unification, instead of canelo, everyone would have been excited and there would have been no talk of weak deer kov. and if kov was such a weak deer i'm sure the teams of arut and bivol would have jumped at the chance to unify with such an easy task. did sergiy d wait for ggg to get old as well? should no one fight ggg now since he is so old?
catchweights have been used by many fighters such as pacquiao, it is not just canelo who benefits from them. canelo had to concede to 152 to get the floyd fight, he even accepted 155 for cotto, canelo wanted 156. jacobs is another fighter who comes in well above his opponents weight. it might be cheating in your book, i don't agree with it myself, but if a fighter makes the weight at the weigh in then it is witout the current rules
canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling. just like loma and usyk. does canelo recieve benefits from fighting in vegas? sure, would any fighter turn down those advantages? doubt it, it is also a promoters job to get the best deal for his fighter, that includes location as well as purse and many other things
most fghters don't want to admit they lost, broner still thinks he beat pac. this is nothing new. if you have a problem with the judges cards call them out. if it was as easy as having a fighter who could survive to the final bell then all promoters need to do is get iron chinned fighters from this point on and pay off everyone. you make it seem so simple
ofcourse you are not talking about miller, it doesn't fit you bias. we are talking about failed drug tests tough aren't we? have the names rey vargas and julio martinez ever escaped your lips when talking about boxings failed drug tests and punishments?
i understand some of your frustrations and agree with some of them. but you are very onesided. all i'm asking for is consistancy. you rubbish canelo for the same things other fighters are doing, i understand though, when a fighter reaches this level of fame he becomes more of a target for criticism. no fighter is bigger than the sport. canelo will be gone soon enough. enjoy him while you can. not many fighters have a perfect career where the fans agree with every move they make. canelo is still making good fights. i would love to see jermall take on kov at lightheavy or ggg, even some of these supermiddles could step up
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Most fighters CAN'T get away with it..... because they're not Canelo. Again, we can go back and forth all day, but you're not convincing anyone.
Why should I call out other MW's for not jumping two divisions to fight a suddenly vulnerable Kovalev? You keep harping on that even though I've already said more than once that fighters should clean out their own division, a concept as foreign to Canelo as neurosurgery. If you're gonna keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses.
You give Canelo kudos for fighting Floyd at 152? Damn that's pathetic. So it was basically a bloated Floyd, who isn't even a true WW, who whitewashed Canelo like he's never whitewashed anyone before... proving Canelo didn't belong in the same galaxy with him.... and yet somehow one of Canelo's hired help judges managed to see it as a draw. Shit bro.... this isn't even worth arguing about.
My favorite argument of yours, though, is how you insist that Canelo travels. :lolhaha:
In fact..... I like the argument so much, I think I'll post it here verbatim.
"canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling." :LOLATYOU:
Man.... I don't know what to say. It's sad, really. It's becoming tougher not to call you a troll.
Hey, you know what? Of course I'm one-sided. (Newsflash)
I'm one-sided because I've been a boxing fan long enough to know that Canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning. I'm not going to bother with all the reasons why. It's not worth the trouble, and it's nothing I haven't said a million times before.
I already told you Canelo's an exciting fighter and that's all you're gonna get. Every other star in boxing history has earned their way to the top. They've fought credible opposition since about their 15th or 20th pro fight AT THE LATEST. They've fought all comers, including dangerous fighters that are not handicapped by age, weight, lack of power, or any other of the advantages Canelo has to have. They haven't CONSTANTLY outweighed their opposition by 20-30 pounds. They haven't picked off the Rocky Fieldings of the world to collect worthless trinkets. They haven't stuck to their own neighborhood with bought judges and commissions. They haven't had boxing orgs invent belts just for them.
It's all out there for everyone to see. Except, however........ for the followers. ;) ;)
https://media.pixcove.com/N/5/5/Sage...lauti-2455.jpg
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Most fighters CAN'T get away with it..... because they're not Canelo. Again,
we can go back and forth all day, but you're not convincing anyone.
Why should I call out other MW's for not jumping two divisions to fight a suddenly vulnerable Kovalev? You keep harping on that even though I've already said more than once that fighters should clean out their own division, a concept as foreign to Canelo as neurosurgery.
If you're gonna keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses.
You give Canelo kudos for fighting Floyd at 152?
Damn that's pathetic. So it was basically a bloated Floyd, who isn't even a true WW, who whitewashed Canelo like he's never whitewashed anyone before... proving Canelo didn't belong in the same galaxy with him.... and yet somehow one of
Canelo's hired help judges managed to see it as a draw. Shit bro.... this isn't even worth arguing about.
My favorite argument of yours, though, is how you insist that Canelo travels. :lolhaha:
In fact..... I like the argument so much, I think I'll post it here verbatim.
"canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling." :LOLATYOU:
Man.... I don't know what to say. It's sad, really. It's becoming tougher not to call you a troll.
Hey, you know what? Of
course I'm one-sided. (Newsflash)
I'm one-sided because I've been a boxing fan long enough to know that Canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning. I'm not going to bother with all the reasons why.
It's not worth the trouble, and it's nothing I haven't said a million times before.
I already told you Canelo's an exciting fighter and that's all you're gonna get. Every other star in boxing history has earned their way to the top. They've fought credible opposition since about their 15th or 20th pro fight AT THE LATEST. They've fought all comers, including dangerous fighters that are not handicapped by age, weight, lack of power, or any other of the advantages Canelo has to have. They haven't CONSTANTLY outweighed their opposition by 20-30 pounds. They haven't picked off the Rocky Fieldings of the world to collect worthless trinkets. They haven't stuck to their own neighborhood with bought judges and commissions. They haven't had boxing orgs invent belts just for them.
It's all out there for everyone to see. Except, however........ for the followers. ;) ;)
https://media.pixcove.com/N/5/5/Sage...lauti-2455.jpg
did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth
i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses
not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them
is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth
you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either
i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them
i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth
Regurgitation. The first sign of someone who's lost the argument and is reduced to repeating the other side's phrases. ;)
i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses
Ditto. Are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue also?
not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them
is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth
You know what I mean here. I'm not spelling it out for you like some child.
you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either
i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them
i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer
You've already been slammed dunked every which way but continue to plow forward. Plow ahead.
You can like him as a boxer all you like, but his career has still been manufactured.
'Nough said.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth
Regurgitation. The first sign of someone who's lost the argument and is reduced to repeating the other side's phrases. ;)
i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses
Ditto. Are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue also?
not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them
is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth
You know what I mean here. I'm not spelling it out for you like some child.
you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either
i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them
i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer
You've already been slammed dunked every which way but continue to plow forward. Plow ahead.
You can like him as a boxer all you like, but his career has still been manufactured.
'Nough said.
you said most fighters can't get away with it, i provided two fighters among many who got off better than canelo, two guys you have never said peep about. your response was to avoid this truth
another truth is the current crop of top middles and artur and bivol did not choose to fight this so called weak deer kov and i provided loma as an example of a fighter who also hasn't cleaned out divisions, your response was to avoid this truth once again
it is also true that canelo fights outside his home country, again you chose to avoid the truth
you are playing the wrong sport as it is you that has been slammed by the truth
i'll just put it down to jealousy of the legend that canelo is becoming
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Put it down however you like. I just hope you and your also hypnotized brethren snap out of it before the Pied Piper "flutes" you right off the cliff.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.
He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.
He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.
Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.
Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.
He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.
Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.
I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.
Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.
So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.
Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.
He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.
He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.
Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.
Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.
He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.
Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.
I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.
Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.
So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.
Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.
He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.
He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.
Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.
Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.
He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.
Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.
I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.
Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.
So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.
Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.
I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.
The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.
It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.
Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.
Human nature.
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.
I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."
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Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.
He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.
He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.
Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.
Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.
He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.
Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.
I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.
Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.
So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.
Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.
I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.
The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.
It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.
Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.
Human nature.
other than trout and jacobs? what about floyd? i guess taking on the best in the sport is not enough of a risk for you. lara? what about ggg? when was he too old? the first or second fight? sergiy d shouldn't have fought such a shot fighter. and artur, bivol or gvozdyk probably didn't want to fight a shot kov to unify
canelo turned pro young, so many of his eary fights were development. not many modern careers can be like loma or usyk. i agree that a fighter fast tracked is very impressive, but some get derailed. some of canelo's fights could have gone either way, i thought he lost the first ggg fight, but he is fighting these top fighters. this is not ballroom dancing. a fighter risks his life everytime he steps in the ring. and there is no dening that canelo has one of the best current records for fighting highly rated fighters around the weight. i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.
I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."
look at a guy like mikey garcia, he had almost thirty fights before fighting orlando, nobody of any real note. no one really focuses on wht he did early in his career, mainly on what he has been doing since stepping up his competition. how many fights did it take wilder to fight a live body? all modern fighters pick and choose. and many bend and break the rules. bad decisions are a part of boxing. catchweights have been common through boxings history, cotto had a few and was quoted saying "If the guy doesn't want to go (to the catchweight), they can feel free to look in other directions (for opponents)." we can pick apart every fighter and find fighters that they are claimed to have avoided. canelo has taken risks uch as trout, floyd, lara, ggg, jacobs and he fought kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk
-
Re: End of year awards 2019
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
-
Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
so, to you a risk is only if someone has the chance of knocking you out? a risk for me is a fighter challenging himself against an opponent that he risks losing to. there is no shame in losing to the best boxer in the world
you avoided the question again. when did ggg turn old? the first fight or the second fight? either way you should be rubbishing sergiy d for wasting his time against such a shot fighter. i remember cotto ducking ggg and wanting middleweights to fight at catchweights. you will say that cotto was not a middleweight. well then he shouldn’t have been fighting for middleweight titles, and both cotto and alvarez turned pro at superlightweight. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight. If you have an issue with what oscar says take it up with him and his personal life is none of my business. and remember cotto was also playing weight games with middleweights. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight but his fight prior to jc junior was at superwelterweight, so he essentially moved up two weight divisions for that fight. martinez and cotto ducked ggg, canelo actually fought him, twice, within two years of winning the middleweight title, something both Martinez and cotto never did
many young prospects are brought along slowly, especially if they are teenagers. not all fighters with flashy unbeaten 30 plus -0 records are treated like mega-stars. it takes more than just a record to make a superstar. the fighter needs charisma, and that something that resonates with the fans. they need to be dedicated and have that desire to compete and build a legacy. some fighters have got it and some fighters don’t. just look at fighters like andy ruiz or buster and how they lost their dedication and desire or someone like bojado, who was hailed as a future superstar before his bubble burst, or frankie gomez who also lost his desire
i never stated you weren’t a critic of wilder, only that him and mikey Garcia among others, had padded records early on. both have taken more risks since, as has canelo as he has improved and as i stated, canelo’s record is one of the best currently around the weight for opposition
as i stated, not all fighters become superstars, no matter how much they are pushed, primed and promoted, it is a special something that promoters wish they could bottle, it’s not just an unbeaten record, or just good looks, something resonates with the fans. for me it is facing good opponents. most feel canelo lost to ggg in the first fight and he was outclassed by floyd, as well as close fights with trout and lara, those fights have not hindered canelo’s popularity in the least, even with the failed drug tests, canelo is still one of the biggest names and attractions of the sport. it is similar to mcgregor in the ufc, he has lost multiple times, had rape allegations, but is still one of their biggest stars. it can't all be magically manufactured, the fighter needs to do his part
-
Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
so, to you a risk is only if someone has the chance of knocking you out? a risk for me is a fighter challenging himself against an opponent that he risks losing to. there is no shame in losing to the best boxer in the world
you avoided the question again. when did ggg turn old? the first fight or the second fight? either way you should be rubbishing sergiy d for wasting his time against such a shot fighter. i remember cotto ducking ggg and wanting middleweights to fight at catchweights. you will say that cotto was not a middleweight. well then he shouldn’t have been fighting for middleweight titles, and both cotto and alvarez turned pro at superlightweight. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight. If you have an issue with what oscar says take it up with him and his personal life is none of my business. and remember cotto was also playing weight games with middleweights. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight but his fight prior to jc junior was at superwelterweight, so he essentially moved up two weight divisions for that fight. martinez and cotto ducked ggg, canelo actually fought him, twice, within two years of winning the middleweight title, something both Martinez and cotto never did
many young prospects are brought along slowly, especially if they are teenagers. not all fighters with flashy unbeaten 30 plus -0 records are treated like mega-stars. it takes more than just a record to make a superstar. the fighter needs charisma, and that something that resonates with the fans. they need to be dedicated and have that desire to compete and build a legacy. some fighters have got it and some fighters don’t. just look at fighters like andy ruiz or buster and how they lost their dedication and desire or someone like bojado, who was hailed as a future superstar before his bubble burst, or frankie gomez who also lost his desire
i never stated you weren’t a critic of wilder, only that him and mikey Garcia among others, had padded records early on. both have taken more risks since, as has canelo as he has improved and as i stated, canelo’s record is one of the best currently around the weight for opposition
as i stated, not all fighters become superstars, no matter how much they are pushed, primed and promoted, it is a special something that promoters wish they could bottle, it’s not just an unbeaten record, or just good looks, something resonates with the fans. for me it is facing good opponents. most feel canelo lost to ggg in the first fight and he was outclassed by floyd, as well as close fights with trout and lara, those fights have not hindered canelo’s popularity in the least, even with the failed drug tests, canelo is still one of the biggest names and attractions of the sport. it is similar to mcgregor in the ufc, he has lost multiple times, had rape allegations, but is still one of their biggest stars. it can't all be magically manufactured, the fighter needs to do his part
If you consider Canelo a risk taker, continue living on that lonely planet. Not much more to discuss there.
I have repeatedly explained everything there is to know about Golovkin, and how Canelo avoided him like the plague until he felt it suited him. If you want some answer to some bogus age question, again...... we have nothing further to talk about.
If your answer to all of Canelo's many faults is to point out similar faults in others, then it is you avoiding the questions and we have nothing more to discuss.
If coddled fighters with "charisma" is what floats your boat, then by all means proceed. Don't let me stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid.
You obviously decided at some point to go for the hype and become yet another blind groupie.
Who am I to object? Knock yourself out, sport.
We're done discussing this subject.
-
Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
so, to you a risk is only if someone has the chance of knocking you out? a risk for me is a fighter challenging himself against an opponent that he risks losing to. there is no shame in losing to the best boxer in the world
you avoided the question again. when did ggg turn old? the first fight or the second fight? either way you should be rubbishing sergiy d for wasting his time against such a shot fighter. i remember cotto ducking ggg and wanting middleweights to fight at catchweights. you will say that cotto was not a middleweight. well then he shouldn’t have been fighting for middleweight titles, and both cotto and alvarez turned pro at superlightweight. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight. If you have an issue with what oscar says take it up with him and his personal life is none of my business. and remember cotto was also playing weight games with middleweights. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight but his fight prior to jc junior was at superwelterweight, so he essentially moved up two weight divisions for that fight. martinez and cotto ducked ggg, canelo actually fought him, twice, within two years of winning the middleweight title, something both Martinez and cotto never did
many young prospects are brought along slowly, especially if they are teenagers. not all fighters with flashy unbeaten 30 plus -0 records are treated like mega-stars. it takes more than just a record to make a superstar. the fighter needs charisma, and that something that resonates with the fans. they need to be dedicated and have that desire to compete and build a legacy. some fighters have got it and some fighters don’t. just look at fighters like andy ruiz or buster and how they lost their dedication and desire or someone like bojado, who was hailed as a future superstar before his bubble burst, or frankie gomez who also lost his desire
i never stated you weren’t a critic of wilder, only that him and mikey Garcia among others, had padded records early on. both have taken more risks since, as has canelo as he has improved and as i stated, canelo’s record is one of the best currently around the weight for opposition
as i stated, not all fighters become superstars, no matter how much they are pushed, primed and promoted, it is a special something that promoters wish they could bottle, it’s not just an unbeaten record, or just good looks, something resonates with the fans. for me it is facing good opponents. most feel canelo lost to ggg in the first fight and he was outclassed by floyd, as well as close fights with trout and lara, those fights have not hindered canelo’s popularity in the least, even with the failed drug tests, canelo is still one of the biggest names and attractions of the sport. it is similar to mcgregor in the ufc, he has lost multiple times, had rape allegations, but is still one of their biggest stars. it can't all be magically manufactured, the fighter needs to do his part
If you consider Canelo a risk taker, continue living on that lonely planet. Not much more to discuss there.
I have
repeatedly explained everything there is to know about Golovkin, and how Canelo avoided him like the plague until he felt it suited him. If you want some answer to some bogus age question, again...... we have nothing further to talk about.
If your answer to all of Canelo's many faults is to point out similar faults in others, then it is
you avoiding the questions and we have nothing more to discuss.
If coddled fighters with "charisma" is what floats your boat, then by all means proceed. Don't let me stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid.
You obviously decided at some point to go for the hype and become yet another blind groupie.
Who am I to object? Knock yourself out, sport.
We're done discussing this subject.
canelo has risked taking losses as I have already proven by him fighting the likes of trout, floyd, lara, ggg twice, Jacobs and fighting kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk did. you avoided the question again, is a risk to you only if someone has the chance of knocking you out?
canelo fought ggg and never ducked him like Martinez or cotto did. and he fought him in a quicker time from winning the middleweight title than both martinez and cotto did. i remember ggg was considered the number one guy at middleweight when canelo fought him and many thought ggg was going to knock canelo out and we both feel ggg should have won that fight, alvarez fought him again in his next fight, so it would be correct to assume ggg was still considered the top fighter at middleweight going into the rematch. sounds to me like of lot of risk taken there, doesn’t sound perfectly suited to me. perfectly suited would have not being caught for drugs, but canelo served his ban and passed every test for the rematch, jacobs only fought ggg six months before canelo, and jacobs has fought his entire career at middleweight or above, was that perfectly suited for jacobs as well? was it jacobs who ruined ggg, so that he was such a suited non risk opponent for canelo?
i have already proven that canelo has taken risks and is far from coddled, you just can’t accept the truth
i have already stated that from the trout fight onwards i have enjoyed most of what canelo has done and have stated that canelo has one of the best records for opposition around the weight. i don’t care for hype, i am only interested in who a fighter fights and as canelo’s record shows, from the trout fight onwards, he has faced many top opponents
when you are happy to accept the truth, i will be happy to stop discussing it
-
Re: End of year awards 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
so, to you a risk is only if someone has the chance of knocking you out? a risk for me is a fighter challenging himself against an opponent that he risks losing to. there is no shame in losing to the best boxer in the world
you avoided the question again. when did ggg turn old? the first fight or the second fight? either way you should be rubbishing sergiy d for wasting his time against such a shot fighter. i remember cotto ducking ggg and wanting middleweights to fight at catchweights. you will say that cotto was not a middleweight. well then he shouldn’t have been fighting for middleweight titles, and both cotto and alvarez turned pro at superlightweight. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight. If you have an issue with what oscar says take it up with him and his personal life is none of my business. and remember cotto was also playing weight games with middleweights. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight but his fight prior to jc junior was at superwelterweight, so he essentially moved up two weight divisions for that fight. martinez and cotto ducked ggg, canelo actually fought him, twice, within two years of winning the middleweight title, something both Martinez and cotto never did
many young prospects are brought along slowly, especially if they are teenagers. not all fighters with flashy unbeaten 30 plus -0 records are treated like mega-stars. it takes more than just a record to make a superstar. the fighter needs charisma, and that something that resonates with the fans. they need to be dedicated and have that desire to compete and build a legacy. some fighters have got it and some fighters don’t. just look at fighters like andy ruiz or buster and how they lost their dedication and desire or someone like bojado, who was hailed as a future superstar before his bubble burst, or frankie gomez who also lost his desire
i never stated you weren’t a critic of wilder, only that him and mikey Garcia among others, had padded records early on. both have taken more risks since, as has canelo as he has improved and as i stated, canelo’s record is one of the best currently around the weight for opposition
as i stated, not all fighters become superstars, no matter how much they are pushed, primed and promoted, it is a special something that promoters wish they could bottle, it’s not just an unbeaten record, or just good looks, something resonates with the fans. for me it is facing good opponents. most feel canelo lost to ggg in the first fight and he was outclassed by floyd, as well as close fights with trout and lara, those fights have not hindered canelo’s popularity in the least, even with the failed drug tests, canelo is still one of the biggest names and attractions of the sport. it is similar to mcgregor in the ufc, he has lost multiple times, had rape allegations, but is still one of their biggest stars. it can't all be magically manufactured, the fighter needs to do his part
If you consider Canelo a risk taker, continue living on that lonely planet. Not much more to discuss there.
I have
repeatedly explained everything there is to know about Golovkin, and how Canelo avoided him like the plague until he felt it suited him. If you want some answer to some bogus age question, again...... we have nothing further to talk about.
If your answer to all of Canelo's many faults is to point out similar faults in others, then it is
you avoiding the questions and we have nothing more to discuss.
If coddled fighters with "charisma" is what floats your boat, then by all means proceed. Don't let me stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid.
You obviously decided at some point to go for the hype and become yet another blind groupie.
Who am I to object? Knock yourself out, sport.
We're done discussing this subject.
canelo has risked taking losses as I have already proven by him fighting the likes of trout, floyd, lara, ggg twice, Jacobs and fighting kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk did. you avoided the question again, is a risk to you only if someone has the chance of knocking you out?
canelo fought ggg and never ducked him like Martinez or cotto did. and he fought him in a quicker time from winning the middleweight title than both martinez and cotto did. i remember ggg was considered the number one guy at middleweight when canelo fought him and many thought ggg was going to knock canelo out and we both feel ggg should have won that fight, alvarez fought him again in his next fight, so it would be correct to assume ggg was still considered the top fighter at middleweight going into the rematch. sounds to me like of lot of risk taken there, doesn’t sound perfectly suited to me. perfectly suited would have not being caught for drugs, but canelo served his ban and passed every test for the rematch, jacobs only fought ggg six months before canelo, and jacobs has fought his entire career at middleweight or above, was that perfectly suited for jacobs as well? was it jacobs who ruined ggg, so that he was such a suited non risk opponent for canelo?
i have already proven that canelo has taken risks and is far from coddled, you just can’t accept the truth
i have already stated that from the trout fight onwards i have enjoyed most of what canelo has done and have stated that canelo has one of the best records for opposition around the weight. i don’t care for hype, i am only interested in who a fighter fights and as canelo’s record shows, from the trout fight onwards, he has faced many top opponents
when you are happy to accept the truth, i will be happy to stop discussing it
You still talking?
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Re: End of year awards 2019
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
TIC
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
TIC
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.
You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.
Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.
You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.
Your last sentence is one I can agree with.
"i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"
It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.
so, to you a risk is only if someone has the chance of knocking you out? a risk for me is a fighter challenging himself against an opponent that he risks losing to. there is no shame in losing to the best boxer in the world
you avoided the question again. when did ggg turn old? the first fight or the second fight? either way you should be rubbishing sergiy d for wasting his time against such a shot fighter. i remember cotto ducking ggg and wanting middleweights to fight at catchweights. you will say that cotto was not a middleweight. well then he shouldn’t have been fighting for middleweight titles, and both cotto and alvarez turned pro at superlightweight. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight. If you have an issue with what oscar says take it up with him and his personal life is none of my business. and remember cotto was also playing weight games with middleweights. i have never stated that canelo wasn’t a middleweight but his fight prior to jc junior was at superwelterweight, so he essentially moved up two weight divisions for that fight. martinez and cotto ducked ggg, canelo actually fought him, twice, within two years of winning the middleweight title, something both Martinez and cotto never did
many young prospects are brought along slowly, especially if they are teenagers. not all fighters with flashy unbeaten 30 plus -0 records are treated like mega-stars. it takes more than just a record to make a superstar. the fighter needs charisma, and that something that resonates with the fans. they need to be dedicated and have that desire to compete and build a legacy. some fighters have got it and some fighters don’t. just look at fighters like andy ruiz or buster and how they lost their dedication and desire or someone like bojado, who was hailed as a future superstar before his bubble burst, or frankie gomez who also lost his desire
i never stated you weren’t a critic of wilder, only that him and mikey Garcia among others, had padded records early on. both have taken more risks since, as has canelo as he has improved and as i stated, canelo’s record is one of the best currently around the weight for opposition
as i stated, not all fighters become superstars, no matter how much they are pushed, primed and promoted, it is a special something that promoters wish they could bottle, it’s not just an unbeaten record, or just good looks, something resonates with the fans. for me it is facing good opponents. most feel canelo lost to ggg in the first fight and he was outclassed by floyd, as well as close fights with trout and lara, those fights have not hindered canelo’s popularity in the least, even with the failed drug tests, canelo is still one of the biggest names and attractions of the sport. it is similar to mcgregor in the ufc, he has lost multiple times, had rape allegations, but is still one of their biggest stars. it can't all be magically manufactured, the fighter needs to do his part
If you consider Canelo a risk taker, continue living on that lonely planet. Not much more to discuss there.
I have
repeatedly explained everything there is to know about Golovkin, and how Canelo avoided him like the plague until he felt it suited him. If you want some answer to some bogus age question, again...... we have nothing further to talk about.
If your answer to all of Canelo's many faults is to point out similar faults in others, then it is
you avoiding the questions and we have nothing more to discuss.
If coddled fighters with "charisma" is what floats your boat, then by all means proceed. Don't let me stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid.
You obviously decided at some point to go for the hype and become yet another blind groupie.
Who am I to object? Knock yourself out, sport.
We're done discussing this subject.
canelo has risked taking losses as I have already proven by him fighting the likes of trout, floyd, lara, ggg twice, Jacobs and fighting kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk did. you avoided the question again, is a risk to you only if someone has the chance of knocking you out?
canelo fought ggg and never ducked him like Martinez or cotto did. and he fought him in a quicker time from winning the middleweight title than both martinez and cotto did. i remember ggg was considered the number one guy at middleweight when canelo fought him and many thought ggg was going to knock canelo out and we both feel ggg should have won that fight, alvarez fought him again in his next fight, so it would be correct to assume ggg was still considered the top fighter at middleweight going into the rematch. sounds to me like of lot of risk taken there, doesn’t sound perfectly suited to me. perfectly suited would have not being caught for drugs, but canelo served his ban and passed every test for the rematch, jacobs only fought ggg six months before canelo, and jacobs has fought his entire career at middleweight or above, was that perfectly suited for jacobs as well? was it jacobs who ruined ggg, so that he was such a suited non risk opponent for canelo?
i have already proven that canelo has taken risks and is far from coddled, you just can’t accept the truth
i have already stated that from the trout fight onwards i have enjoyed most of what canelo has done and have stated that canelo has one of the best records for opposition around the weight. i don’t care for hype, i am only interested in who a fighter fights and as canelo’s record shows, from the trout fight onwards, he has faced many top opponents
when you are happy to accept the truth, i will be happy to stop discussing it
You still talking?
you accepted the truth?