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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to
When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?
:-\
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to
When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?
:-\
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
So how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking Ottka? Cos thats what u implied! Sounds 2 me like he did'nt want 2 get robbed in Germany,like everybody did against Ottka,or any other German fighter! Funny how Kesslers names not been mentioned in the last few posts whan listing Joe's decent opponents! Nobodys comparing RJJ 2 Calzaghe talent wise,its about who did the better things at the weight,but that facts getting completly overlooked! Why let facts get in the way of a good fighter bash though!:rolleyes:
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Good thread:cool:
Joe Calzaghe;D
History will prove this:p
I would even rank Chong-Pal Park ahead of Jones in a list of all time great super-middleweights
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to
When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?
:-\
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?
Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?
Here's a few things for you -
BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe
Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.
Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote - "We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Who has Calzaghe fought at super middle? What!! Lacy, Manfredo, Reid......come one.
Exactly. I think Joe is the most overrated fighter in recent memory. But i guess some people are impressed by his "flurries", "fast hands" or his underwhelming resume. I only wish he fought Roy at his prime...Jones would have embarrassed him. I have nothing against Joe personally...he seems like a nice guy. But aside from a past prime Eubanks (close fight) and a past prime Hopkins (close fight)...he hasn't fought a great opponent. So i don't care if you are 100-0. Ultimately a fighter is judged by his resume...and Joe's looks mighty thin. Whether that's his fault or not is beside the point. Sure, Roy fought a whole lot less at SMW...but he had the greater impact. By impact i mean we have never seen a fighter with his incredible athleticism or skills at that weight...or maybe any weight. Plus, even if Roy's biggest win was over a PRIME Toney...that is still a much bigger win than anyone Calzaghe fought at that weight.
Eubank planted Calzaghe on his ass. Roy Jones Jr knocking a guy down with a 40-5-1 record down three times and was never hit in a single round is more impressive than Calzaghes entire resume. Calzaghe would have ducked him back then. To me that is more impressive than a pitcher throwing a perfect game.
Well first of all it was Calzaghe who planted Eubank on his ass, your argument immediately collapses as you show yourself to be merely a Max Kellerman puppet and have never even seen the fight. Calzaghe dropped Eubank not the other way around.
Secondly, the question is 'who is the greatest supermiddleweight' ever and the clue is in the title.
It is CLEARLY Joe Calzaghe. He reigned longer at supermiddleweight longer than any other fighter. He had more defenses at supermidleweight than any other fighter. He won more belts at supermiddleweight than any other fighter. He was the only one to ever unify the suppermiddleweight division.
He beat more Ring top 10 supermiddleweights than any other fighter.
So what your in effect saying is, ok Roy didn't win as many belts, he didn't make as many defenses, he didn't dominate the division for more than a decade, he didn't beat as many Ring top 10 middleweights, he didn't unify any title and he was never awarded the Ring belt for being the best supermiddleweight ever BUT in YOUR OPINION in a fictional matchup between the two Roy would have won IN YOUR OPINION so all of Joe's acomplishments don't matter. :rolleyes:
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
So which one is greater at 168 and why?
Arguments for each
Calzaghe
Undefeated
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #3 p4p
Held IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC titles
Big wins at 168
Jeff Lacy (UD)
Mikkel Kessler (UD)
Record at 168: 35-0-0 (23 KOs) (Win %: 100%/ KO %:65.7%)
Opponents combined record: 783-176-23 (Win %: 79.7%)
Jones Jr.
Undefeated at 168
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #1 p4p
Held IBF title
Round 6 against Paz was probably the most dominant round in boxing history (3 knockdowns and Jones was not hit once)
Big Wins at 168
Vinny Pazienza (TKO 6)
James Toney (UD)
Record at 168: 13-0-0 (11 KOs) (Win %:100% / KO %: 84.6%)
Opponents combined record: 321-51-8 (Win %: 84.4%)
Others Mentioned
Sven Ottke
I will edit this as the debate unfolds
I must've repped you already, because I was unable to this time. But great poll, complete with good stats to compare from.
Anyway, I voted Roy Jones Jr. All respect to Joe and his record. But having seen them both on numerous occasions, I'd have to say I consider RJJ the better fighter at his peak. More speed, better boxing skills... and definitely more power (deceptively so, but more power). One thing I dont' like about Calzaghe is his tendency to throw pitty-pat punches during his flurries.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
So which one is greater at 168 and why?
Arguments for each
Calzaghe
Undefeated
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #3 p4p
Held IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC titles
Big wins at 168
Jeff Lacy (UD)
Mikkel Kessler (UD)
Record at 168: 35-0-0 (23 KOs) (Win %: 100%/ KO %:65.7%)
Opponents combined record: 783-176-23 (Win %: 79.7%)
Jones Jr.
Undefeated at 168
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #1 p4p
Held IBF title
Round 6 against Paz was probably the most dominant round in boxing history (3 knockdowns and Jones was not hit once)
Big Wins at 168
Vinny Pazienza (TKO 6)
James Toney (UD)
Record at 168: 13-0-0 (11 KOs) (Win %:100% / KO %: 84.6%)
Opponents combined record: 321-51-8 (Win %: 84.4%)
Others Mentioned
Sven Ottke
I will edit this as the debate unfolds
I would look at prime vs prime. RJJ was an absolute BEAST at 168! Sure he only had 12 fights there but he went on to bigger things. Don't see Joe C winning any HW title. RJJ flat out embarrassed people. So I gave my vote to RJJ.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Exactly. I think Joe is the most overrated fighter in recent memory. But i guess some people are impressed by his "flurries", "fast hands" or his underwhelming resume. I only wish he fought Roy at his prime...Jones would have embarrassed him. I have nothing against Joe personally...he seems like a nice guy. But aside from a past prime Eubanks (close fight) and a past prime Hopkins (close fight)...he hasn't fought a great opponent. So i don't care if you are 100-0. Ultimately a fighter is judged by his resume...and Joe's looks mighty thin. Whether that's his fault or not is beside the point. Sure, Roy fought a whole lot less at SMW...but he had the greater impact. By impact i mean we have never seen a fighter with his incredible athleticism or skills at that weight...or maybe any weight. Plus, even if Roy's biggest win was over a PRIME Toney...that is still a much bigger win than anyone Calzaghe fought at that weight.
Eubank planted Calzaghe on his ass. Roy Jones Jr knocking a guy down with a 40-5-1 record down three times and was never hit in a single round is more impressive than Calzaghes entire resume. Calzaghe would have ducked him back then. To me that is more impressive than a pitcher throwing a perfect game.
Well first of all it was Calzaghe who planted Eubank on his ass, your argument immediately collapses as you show yourself to be merely a Max Kellerman puppet and have never even seen the fight. Calzaghe dropped Eubank not the other way around.
Secondly, the question is 'who is the greatest supermiddleweight' ever and the clue is in the title.
It is CLEARLY Joe Calzaghe. He reigned longer at supermiddleweight longer than any other fighter. He had more defenses at supermidleweight than any other fighter. He won more belts at supermiddleweight than any other fighter. He was the only one to ever unify the suppermiddleweight division.
He beat more Ring top 10 supermiddleweights than any other fighter.
So what your in effect saying is, ok Roy didn't win as many belts, he didn't make as many defenses, he didn't dominate the division for more than a decade, he didn't beat as many Ring top 10 middleweights, he didn't unify any title and he was never awarded the Ring belt for being the best supermiddleweight ever BUT in YOUR OPINION in a fictional matchup between the two Roy would have won IN YOUR OPINION so all of Joe's acomplishments don't matter. :rolleyes:
Sorry I ment to say it was a half ass contender like Byron Mitchell (25-2-1) who put him on his ass. I don't think Bryon Mitchell would ever put RJJ on his ass. The best man Calzaghe ever bested was a middle aged man.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?
:-\
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?
Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?
Here's a few things for you -
BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe
Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.
Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote -
"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren
your right i dont believe any thing frank warren says, any time he speaks its that he made a career high offer......he has a rep for not being overly honest when it comes to these things
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?
Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?
Here's a few things for you -
BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe
Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.
Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote -
"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren
your right i dont believe any thing frank warren says, any time he speaks its that he made a career high offer......he has a rep for not being overly honest when it comes to these things
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
Yeah, yeah. I read the same interview.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
It's Calzaghe at SMW surely without debate? RJJ p4p YES, but Calzaghe has reigned for 11 years at SMW, RJJ didn't fight anybody of any note except Toney at SMW!!!
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND
OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?
Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?
Here's a few things for you -
BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe
Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.
Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote -
"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren
your right i dont believe any thing frank warren says, any time he speaks its that he made a career high offer......he has a rep for not being overly honest when it comes to these things
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
1. Calzaghe is FAR from being my favourite boxer. Fact.
2. I only get angry and take things personal in the "real" world. Fact.
3. You were clearly misinformed. So I apologise for calling you a liar ;)
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?
Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?
Here's a few things for you -
BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe
Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.
Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote -
"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren
your right i dont believe any thing frank warren says, any time he speaks its that he made a career high offer......he has a rep for not being overly honest when it comes to these things
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
1. Calzaghe is FAR from being my favourite boxer. Fact.
2. I only get angry and take things personal in the "real" world. Fact.
3. You were clearly misinformed. So I apologise for calling you a liar ;)
1. Calzaghe is your favorite person in the world. Fact
2. You can't get angry when you know your wrong. Fact
3. I got nothing for number 3.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
your right i dont believe any thing frank warren says, any time he speaks its that he made a career high offer......he has a rep for not being overly honest when it comes to these things
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
1. Calzaghe is FAR from being my favourite boxer. Fact.
2. I only get angry and take things personal in the "real" world. Fact.
3. You were clearly misinformed. So I apologise for calling you a liar ;)
1. Calzaghe is your favorite person in the world. Fact
2. You can't get angry when you know your wrong. Fact
3. I got nothing for number 3.
1. Calzaghe is only my favourite person when educating you on his career. Fact.
2. That don't make sense. Fact.
3. Like all things VD.. Nothingness ;)
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
1. Calzaghe is FAR from being my favourite boxer. Fact.
2. I only get angry and take things personal in the "real" world. Fact.
3. You were clearly misinformed. So I apologise for calling you a liar ;)
1. Calzaghe is your favorite person in the world. Fact
2. You can't get angry when you know your wrong. Fact
3. I got nothing for number 3.
1. Calzaghe is only my favourite person when educating you on his career. Fact.
2. That don't make sense. Fact.
3. Like all things VD.. Nothingness ;)
Boo, boo. I expected more
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
[quote=NUCLEAR BULL;506678][quote=Fenster;506579]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
there was a interview where calzaghe says they wanted him to fight ottka in german, his reponse was...... brewer got robbed out there, and that even muhammed ali wouldn't get a points win in germany so he choose to not take the fight stating he didn't need to as he'd win due to ottkas lack of ability and it wouldn't prove anything.............i quess he felt he couldn't stop powder puff ottka
thats typical of joe, says one thing then later says another, just think back to the b-hop fight...........he said whos hopkins beaten...tarver, well whos tarver whats he ever done to be classed a big win... later he said after he beats hopkins he wants one more super fight and that would be roy jones or tarver, thats the same tarver he was putting doen earlier, you see waht i'm saying.............so i find it hard when him and warren talk to take them honestly. everyone has there own views. i've never called anyone lier on here, and have no reason to lie myself, a gain 000000000000000 from any of it weather he fights someone or not, i'm a fan of many boxer, if they win or lose it make no dif to me, i'm not a gambler so i gain no money nor lose it so have no need to lie about what i know or what i've read or watched a boxer say, just because i say something i heard your favorite boxer say which you dont like doesn't mean i'm saying about you so you shouldn't take it personal and get angry therefore call me or anyone else a lier
2 b fair,thats a bit of a climb down from when yv been saying Joe outright would'nt fight Ottka.I knew myself there were circumstances behind it,but never knew the finer details,can u hounestly blame Joe 4 not wanting 2 go out 2 Germany?! Still dont know how u can put there reigns at SMW on the same level,did Ottka ever get anywere near a P4P list?! Granted there were better Boxers around at the time of Ottka prime,but even if he was around now,you'd have 2 b very generous 2 put him near a P4P list!
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Jones easily. I'm shocked the voting is so close. I didn't think there were that many idiots on this forum. Guess I was wrong.
Why? for beating who? Toney? coz he sure as sh1t didn't beat anybody else at SMW. Yes Jones is an ATG and yes he would very likely have beaten all the others at SMW, but he can't be 'The Greatest' unless he achived the most and he clearly did not (at this weight)
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
i dont think ottka is the best the supermiddle division has seen and nither does many others esp joe calzaghe fans
1) i brought sven ottka in to the debate because he'd spent years as champ like joe
2) because he made 21 defences, just like joe, beating some of the same fighters as joe
3) he fought on home soil, never wanting to leave home, just like joe(take away the b-hop fight at light heavy)
4) he's as big a star in germany as joe is in wales
so if ottka isn't considered anywhere near the best then why do calzaghe fans insist there guy is so much better, tarnishing ottka as low level esp as they both turned down the chance to fight each other ( nither would go to the others country, and a nuetral ground couldnt be set up either, both it seems wanted home advantage)
roy jones and james toney would beat both at super middle with style
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NUCLEAR BULL
i dont think ottka is the best the supermiddle division has seen and nither does many others esp joe calzaghe fans
1) i brought sven ottka in to the debate because he'd spent years as champ like joe
2) because he made 21 defences, just like joe, beating some of the same fighters as joe
3) he fought on home soil, never wanting to leave home, just like joe(take away the b-hop fight at light heavy)
4) he's as big a star in germany as joe is in wales
so if ottka isn't considered anywhere near the best then why do calzaghe fans insist there guy is so much better, tarnishing ottka as low level esp as they both turned down the chance to fight each other ( nither would go to the others country, and a nuetral ground couldnt be set up either, both it seems wanted home advantage)
roy jones and james toney would beat both at super middle with style
If you had ever seen Ottke fight you'd hate him more than you hate Joe. Well almost as much. Your hatred for Calzaghe is pretty sick ;D
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
1. Calzaghe is your favorite person in the world. Fact
2. You can't get angry when you know your wrong. Fact
3. I got nothing for number 3.
1. Calzaghe is only my favourite person when educating you on his career. Fact.
2. That don't make sense. Fact.
3. Like all things VD.. Nothingness ;)
Boo, boo. I expected more
I need better material from you then. Fact.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
i'm not really a fan of ottka, i haven't seen all that much of him but what i've seen is a decent boxer not much more but not enough to be an expert on him like you fenster
i used to be a big fan of calzaghes, when he won the wbo belt by beating eubanks i thought yes, britans got a good young boxer who if he works away can become the next big star, ( like nigal benn, chris eubank, ) he can improve his skills, improve his approach by fighting some good euro level guys then take on the best out there......... a few years later he still was fighting those half decent fighters telling us there super, a few more years and still the same story, always saying he'll go out to america, or anywhere else to fight the best but it didn't seem to happen...........few more years same old story from him and frank warren.
i've got a fight of his..... where he tells us brewer is true world class, top top class, that he only fights the best in the world, brewer already had 8 loses when he fought joe and no one would say he was top top class.........over time i lost any respect i had for a boxer who i once thought could be britans first p4p king.............
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Fair do's.
Everyone has this wrong anyway.
Steve Collins is the best ever supermiddle. Fact.
He beat Benn and Eubank. Fact. And Roy Jones ducked him like the plague. Fact. And Team Calzaghe paid Howard Eastman (in budgie and parrot feed) to KO Collins sparring (was hungover after a night on the lash. Fact.) forcing him to retire before he would have inevitably KO'd Calzaghe. Fact.
Can't argue with the facts. Fact.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
i'm with my old mate, past adversary and old sparringpartner fenster
collins is the best ( good old howard sure did end collins career )
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Fair do's.
Everyone has this wrong anyway.
Steve Collins is the best ever supermiddle. Fact.
He beat Benn and Eubank. Fact. And Roy Jones ducked him like the plague. Fact. And Team Calzaghe paid Howard Eastman (in budgie and parrot feed) to KO Collins sparring (was hungover after a night on the lash. Fact.) forcing him to retire before he would have inevitably KO'd Calzaghe. Fact.
Can't argue with the facts. Fact.
Dam if Collins is better than Jones, and Calzaghe, how good does that make Mike Mcallum, Reggie Johnson and Sumbu Kalambay????
Think about it......
Collins beat Benn when he was shot. Benn was never the same after the Mclellan fight and had just been beat by Malinga who altho not a bad fighter was not great.
Eubank was past his best when Collins fought him and Steve only just snuck passed him anyway. Calzaghe beat Eubank easier and RJJ would have won every round against the version of Eubank that Collins beat by a small margin.
Thems the real facts.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Fair do's.
Everyone has this wrong anyway.
Steve Collins is the best ever supermiddle. Fact.
He beat Benn and Eubank. Fact. And Roy Jones ducked him like the plague. Fact. And Team Calzaghe paid Howard Eastman (in budgie and parrot feed) to KO Collins sparring (was hungover after a night on the lash. Fact.) forcing him to retire before he would have inevitably KO'd Calzaghe. Fact.
Can't argue with the facts. Fact.
Dam if Collins is better than Jones, and Calzaghe, how good does that make Mike Mcallum, Reggie Johnson and Sumbu Kalambay????
Think about it......
Collins beat Benn when he was shot. Benn was never the same after the Mclellan fight and had just been beat by Malinga who altho not a bad fighter was not great.
Eubank was past his best when Collins fought him and Steve only just snuck passed him anyway. Calzaghe beat Eubank easier and RJJ would have won every round against the version of Eubank that Collins beat by a small margin.
Thems the real facts.
No, no, no! Thems excuses. Fact.
Collins ONLY lost pre Paul McKenna days. Fact.
With Paul McKenna in his corner Collins was unbeatable. Fact. That's why Roy dodged him. Fact.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/fen7ster/paul.jpg
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
This thread has officially gone off the deep end. Fact.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Jones is leading the poll.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tins06
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
He beat guy's like Toney and Hopkins in their primes at times when they were consider along some of the all time greats in that class. He was totally dominate. He would flat out embarrass people with his speed and power. Something Calzaghe only has one of.
He beat Hopkins at mw..so got nothing to do with the thread. And Calzaghe had plenty of power but he has constant hand problems wich is why he slaps now..IMO that makes his reign more impressive considering what he has acheived with that problem.
And Calzaghe "beat" Hopkins at Middle Weight so I guess that has nothing to do with it.
Calzaghe beat Hopkins at Light Heavyweight
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tins06
He beat Hopkins at mw..so got nothing to do with the thread. And Calzaghe had plenty of power but he has constant hand problems wich is why he slaps now..IMO that makes his reign more impressive considering what he has acheived with that problem.
And Calzaghe "beat" Hopkins at Middle Weight so I guess that has nothing to do with it.
Calzaghe beat Hopkins at Light Heavyweight
No i mean Jones JR beat them at MW
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Fair do's.
Everyone has this wrong anyway.
Steve Collins is the best ever supermiddle. Fact.
He beat Benn and Eubank. Fact. And Roy Jones ducked him like the plague. Fact. And Team Calzaghe paid Howard Eastman (in budgie and parrot feed) to KO Collins sparring (was hungover after a night on the lash. Fact.) forcing him to retire before he would have inevitably KO'd Calzaghe. Fact.
Can't argue with the facts. Fact.
Dam if Collins is better than Jones, and Calzaghe, how good does that make Mike Mcallum, Reggie Johnson and Sumbu Kalambay????
Think about it......
Collins beat Benn when he was shot. Benn was never the same after the Mclellan fight and had just been beat by Malinga who altho not a bad fighter was not great.
Eubank was past his best when Collins fought him and Steve only just snuck passed him anyway. Calzaghe beat Eubank easier and RJJ would have won every round against the version of Eubank that Collins beat by a small margin.
Thems the real facts.
Eagle, do yourself a favour and look up the word irony in the dictionary.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Jones easily. I'm shocked the voting is so close. I didn't think there were that many idiots on this forum. Guess I was wrong.
The only idiot is you. ;)
Jones Jr didnt do as much at SMW compared to what Calzaghe has. Calzaghe has reigned in a division for a decade and beaten every threat.
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Re: Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time
Except the great Sven Ottke ;D says it all!