I guess no one has ever told David Haye to be careful what you wish for.
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I guess no one has ever told David Haye to be careful what you wish for.
He needs to be as special as Ross "The Boss" Purrity and his twenty losses. Just because he's the best at the minute doesn't mean he's any good.
....it means he's better than the 50 guys he has beaten 44 by KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And Haye has done what to earn this fight or show that he's ready to even challenge Wlad much less beat him?
He's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle....it means he's better than the 50 guys he has beaten 44 by KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And Haye has done what to earn this fight or show that he's ready to even challenge Wlad much less beat him?
Wladimir will have his hands full with the secound best heavy in Thompson.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsWladimir pissed off could be a really scary sight...that guy can hit like a bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm sure Haye wants him mad. Its his best chance to catch Wlad on his chin and get him to fight like a man rather than a wounded Giraffe.
BUT
Haye's chin is kinda glass too, so...
Someone's gettin knocked out.
I suppose if Wlad beats the life out of Haye then all of a sudden Haye will be a "tomato can"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingHe's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle....it means he's better than the 50 guys he has beaten 44 by KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And Haye has done what to earn this fight or show that he's ready to even challenge Wlad much less beat him?
Kirkland, you demand a lot from a champion considering your favorite fighter did jack crap...he beat one guy by split decision and ooooh he's such a cult hero :beat:
Why do people keep going on about wladimir struggling against the "heavy hitters"??
This is heavyweight for gods sake, everybody in the division packs a mean punch and whether your a world champion ukranian or a 25-3 journeymen from kazhakstan you`ll always be capable of knocking your opponent out with one big shot.
As said before this fight would be a 55/45 for me with only Wlads potential to paw his opponent with the jab for 12 rounds making him the very slightest of favourites.
But in reality, thompson, povetkin, haye, peter, rahman, klitschko, maskaev - theyre all capable of being heavyweight champion of the world on their day because they all have the ability to knock someone out with one punch!!
A decent heavyweight hasn't come along in 15 years buddy, they are sighted less often than Hayley's CometQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingHe's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle....it means he's better than the 50 guys he has beaten 44 by KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And Haye has done what to earn this fight or show that he's ready to even challenge Wlad much less beat him?
Thompson has the ability to KO someone with 1 punch??? 31 wins and 19 KO's doesn't exactly scream power puncher. Povetkin hasn't really hurt a true heavyweight yet, Haye has fought 1 guy you could mistake for a heavyweight and Sam Peter had his shot and couldn't get the job done.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Wladimir is the king right now and he deserves some credit.
Watch the fight vs Sultan the blame for it being a bad fight doesn't fall 100% on Wlad's shoulders...Sultan ran away a lot and hid in a crouch a lot.
Haye is a world class fighter but may not be world class at heavyweight. We'll have to see. Meanwhile Vlad has already lost to tomato cans. Just because he's the best heavyweight right now doesn't mean anything when you consider the state of the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI suppose if Wlad beats the life out of Haye then all of a sudden Haye will be a "tomato can"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingHe's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Kirkland, you demand a lot from a champion considering your favorite fighter did jack crap...he beat one guy by split decision and ooooh he's such a cult hero :beat:
Kirkland Laing beat a living legend, something Vlad will never do. And if you watch the fight you have to agree he won it clearly too. He's my favourite fighter because of how he went about his business, not how well he did in the ring.
Yes, the heavyweight division has in general got progressively worse over the past couple of decades but that's irrelevant. Anybody who comes along now who is anywhere near the level of 90s heavyweights like Bowe will flatten Vlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboA decent heavyweight hasn't come along in 15 years buddy, they are sighted less often than Hayley's CometQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingHe's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Hey if Wlad doesn't lose to any of the current heavyweights then his record is going to be really damned good and that has to account for something even if the guys he has beat aren't as good as Riddick Bowe or Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson....look at those guys and you will see the guys they beat had their flaws as well, the only difference is they had their signature wins and Wlad's opponents have had signature wins as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Donovan Rudduck drew his 5th pro fight and lost his 10th pro fight by KO but he came back and beat a once tough Michael Dokes and an underachieving Buster Douglas to fight Tyson. Rudduck could punch like a son of a bitch but he wasn't really a threat to Tyson OR Lewis other than by a puncher's chance.
Riddick Bowe was a champion for a VERY short amount of time. He was dominant over Holyfield BUT his only big wins other than the ones vs Holyfield were vs Buster Douglas (an under achiever bar the fight vs Tyson), Michael Dokes (past his prime), and vs the game Pierre Coetzer.
Tyson's opponents, Holyfield's opponents, Bowe's opponents....Wlad has fought similar competition HOWEVER it's not his fault no one is good enough to compete with him. Maybe Daivd Haye can be the other man in the division but I doubt he's going to do well vs Wladimir based on size, strength, and power
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by LyleI suppose if Wlad beats the life out of Haye then all of a sudden Haye will be a "tomato can"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingHe's knocked over a bunch of tomato cans. I didn't say Haye was worth puttting in the ring with him. I said we'll have to see with Haye. But as soon as a decent heavyweight comes along Vlad will get flattened. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Kirkland, you demand a lot from a champion considering your favorite fighter did jack crap...he beat one guy by split decision and ooooh he's such a cult hero :beat:
The current heavyweight scene is rubbish and Vlad is just the least-worst guy in it right now. Vlad has been KO'd by guys much smaller than him, so even a cruiserweight Haye stands a puncher's chance. If anybody remotely good comes along in the next couple of years he'll clean up the heavyweights easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleHey if Wlad doesn't lose to any of the current heavyweights then his record is going to be really damned good and that has to account for something even if the guys he has beat aren't as good as Riddick Bowe or Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson....look at those guys and you will see the guys they beat had their flaws as well, the only difference is they had their signature wins and Wlad's opponents have had signature wins as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Donovan Rudduck drew his 5th pro fight and lost his 10th pro fight by KO but he came back and beat a once tough Michael Dokes and an underachieving Buster Douglas to fight Tyson. Rudduck could punch like a son of a bitch but he wasn't really a threat to Tyson OR Lewis other than by a puncher's chance.
Riddick Bowe was a champion for a VERY short amount of time. He was dominant over Holyfield BUT his only big wins other than the ones vs Holyfield were vs Buster Douglas (an under achiever bar the fight vs Tyson), Michael Dokes (past his prime), and vs the game Pierre Coetzer.
Tyson's opponents, Holyfield's opponents, Bowe's opponents....Wlad has fought similar competition HOWEVER it's not his fault no one is good enough to compete with him. Maybe Daivd Haye can be the other man in the division but I doubt he's going to do well vs Wladimir based on size, strength, and power
You're still smarting because Bernard Hopkins got beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by LyleI suppose if Wlad beats the life out of Haye then all of a sudden Haye will be a "tomato can"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Kirkland, you demand a lot from a champion considering your favorite fighter did jack crap...he beat one guy by split decision and ooooh he's such a cult hero :beat:
You still smarting cuz you don't know how to judge a fight. If you did, you would know Hopkins didn't loseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYou're still smarting because Bernard Hopkins got beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You're so lucky you didn't do a signature bet with me. We have to do one when Calzaghe fights Jones Junior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYou still smarting cuz you don't know how to judge a fight. If you did, you would know Hopkins didn't loseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYou're still smarting because Bernard Hopkins got beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Sounds goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYou're so lucky you didn't do a signature bet with me. We have to do one when Calzaghe fights Jones Junior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYou still smarting cuz you don't know how to judge a fight. If you did, you would know Hopkins didn't loseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Yeah I agree if anybody comes along at the level of Bowe they would cause mayehm, but they AIN'T COMING! There's nobody on the horizon that remotely looks like they could take out Wlad right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes, the heavyweight division has in general got progressively worse over the past couple of decades but that's irrelevant. Anybody who comes along now who is anywhere near the level of 90s heavyweights like Bowe will flatten Vlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboA decent heavyweight hasn't come along in 15 years buddy, they are sighted less often than Hayley's CometQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Anybody roughly the same size as him who can punch could beat him. When there were good heavyweights to fight he stayed in Germany and made money. I just don't think he's worth getting excited about. And it's not because he's a pretend German either, if he was any good I'd like him, but I honestly think he's rubbish, unexciting, etc.
OK please explain how Wladimir can fix the current heavyweight division??? He's just one man he can't fight against himself dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
David Haye has to prove himself and THEN maybe we can talk but right now Wlad is THE dominant fighter in the division. He beat Sam Peter BEFORE Sam had any losses that has to count for something. He beat Chris Byrd twice and both times he beat Chris Byrd he was one of the longest reigning title holders having defended several times vs guys just as big as Wladimir. Wlad also avenged his loss vs Lamon Brewster and had Corrie Sanders actually trained and beaten the 14-5-1 Osborne Machi-whaddy MAYBE Wlad would avenge that loss as well.
Right now there are not contenders OTHER than the punks who hold the other two belts and Wlad would hand them their asses as well.
I'm not sayign Wlad is the greatest of all time I am saying he's hands down the best right now and honestly right now the division isn't totally horrible it's the same as ever: no consistency, no big fights being made, and no complete fighters......which is why Lewis, Tyson, and Holyfield were able to stick around for so long and honestly I see Wlad being much the same, Even if (and that's a BIG if) a great heavyweight comes along, Wlad will still be able to win vs everyone else.
Kirkland you have flaws in your argument, you don't give credit where credit is due and even in HYPOTHETICAL situations you weasle out ways to try and rob Wladimir of any true legacy whatsoever. Sure Wlad got beat early in his career and he's been KO'd 3 times but hell show me a fighter sho either hasn't lost at all or has come back from losses to be stronger and better than before.....the only guys ARE THE BEST.
Lennox Lewis got knocked the fuck out vs McCall and Rahman and those guys were no world beaters. Mike Tyson lost to Buster motherfucking Douglas and Holyfield got TKO'd by a fucking supermiddleweight so don't fucking complain to me about Wlad losing when he was 22 years old.
Your argument is flawed, it's MORE biased than mine which borders on impossible and you're stubborn to boot. Congrats you got the hat trick.
I wouldn't get excited if he could fight himself. Watching one glass-jawed Frankenstein paw and jab some inevitably smaller guy for twelve rounds is bad enough but watching two of them would be torture.
Your problem is that you're relentlessly wrong about everything.
It's either you or me buddy and honestly your argument is hella weakQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
I think Haye is an idiot, he just looked like a moron standing on that escalator looking up at Wladimir Klitschko.
I loved how Wlad said I can't fight you now I'm fighting my IBF mandatory challenger Tony Thompson, and Haye is like 'ok next' and Wlad is like 'the I must take on Alexander Povetkin the winner of the elimination tournament to fight me.
It was starting to sound like that speech in Life of Brian about what the Romans have ever done for us.
Haye is like 'Ok after you've fought Tony Thompson and Alexander Povetkin will you fight me?.
Wlad is like 'Then I am fighting a rematch against Sam Peter for a chance to become the first fighter to unify the heavyweight division since Lennox Lewis.
Poor David cries, 'Ok so after you've fought Tony Thompson, Alexander Povetkin and Sam Peter to unify the heavyweight division THEN will you fight me?
:rolleyes:
Run along David you made a complete ass of yourself ;D
I'm not sure David Haye will be a good heavyweight. He might make Vlad look rock-jawed. But he'll be in some exciting fights. You can't say the same about Vlad.
OK Lyle. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleIt's either you or me buddy and honestly your argument is hella weakQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
For some reason I can easily picture Haye behind Wlad at the super market with a loaf of bread in his hand begging to Wlad "Please fight me, Wlad"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Well in your efforts to discredit ONE heavyweight you have ended up trying to discredit them all even ones who haven't even fought in the division yet....that seems to me to be a little bit of a stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Did Mike Tyson have anyone great on his record during his reign??? A scared Michael Spinks, an old Larry Holmes,....Trevor Berbick?? Pinklon Thomas??? FRANK BRUNO???....but you like him because he was fun to watch....so I take it you don't watch much boxing :rolleyes: . Wlad throws punches, he is able to inflict damage AND utilize his natural advantages of size and strength and what more could you ask for as a professional fighter??? You want him to talk trash like James Toney or just go for broke in every fight and not use strategy at all????
What you ask of Wladimir is either #1 ignorant from a strategic standpoint or #2 impossible for Wlad to do because he doesn't choose the people that are in the division and he can't make his opponents fight any better than what they do.
So yeah YOU are 100% wrong in this case....you can be a Haye fan and cheer him on and everything but denying Wlad his credit will come back and bite you in the ass because if Haye beats Wlad and Wlad is as big of a bum as you make him out to be then what the fuck has Haye proven???? And if you just like the way Haye fights then go watch the fucking gypsies fight...because it's fun
Haye at heavyweight may make Vlad look iron-chinned. But he'll be exciting, not Vlad-like. He may lose to Solis again but in every fight he'll be entertaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleWell in your efforts to discredit ONE heavyweight you have ended up trying to discredit them all even ones who haven't even fought in the division yet....that seems to me to be a little bit of a stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Did Mike Tyson have anyone great on his record during his reign??? A scared Michael Spinks, an old Larry Holmes,....Trevor Berbick?? Pinklon Thomas??? FRANK BRUNO???....but you like him because he was fun to watch....so I take it you don't watch much boxing :rolleyes: . Wlad throws punches, he is able to inflict damage AND utilize his natural advantages of size and strength and what more could you ask for as a professional fighter??? You want him to talk trash like James Toney or just go for broke in every fight and not use strategy at all????
What you ask of Wladimir is either #1 ignorant from a strategic standpoint or #2 impossible for Wlad to do because he doesn't choose the people that are in the division and he can't make his opponents fight any better than what they do.
So yeah YOU are 100% wrong in this case....you can be a Haye fan and cheer him on and everything but denying Wlad his credit will come back and bite you in the ass because if Haye beats Wlad and Wlad is as big of a bum as you make him out to be then what the fuck has Haye proven???? And if you just like the way Haye fights then go watch the fucking gypsies fight...because it's fun
Lyle, there are two fighters.
One guy has a truly epic physical presence. He's extremely tall, heavy and athletic, with exceptional athleticism for such a big guy. Yet since he discovered that his jaw is made out of glass he fights in a style that makes John Ruiz entertaining. He managed his career in a way that made Frank Warren seem like a reckless risk-taker and only due to the tragic decline in the heavyweight division since the 1970s is he even seen as world-class.
The other fighter has less height and reach than the first guy and naturally weighs considerably less than the first fighter. But his style of fighting is exciting and he has lots of power married to exceptional athleticism, and he's willing to move up a weight class and fight the best fighter in the world at that level straight away.
Which of these guys is most worth supporting? Which is it most natural to be a fan of?
Or look it at another way. One guy is intelligent, respectful, articulate and an ambassador for the sport of boxing, the other is a complete tool. Which of these guys is most worth supporting? Which is it most natural to be a fan of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
David Haye did well in the cruiserweight division but hell it's in a weaker state than the hw division has ever been. In the hw division, I think Haye will find out the hard way that he is a legend in his own mind and that's before he can fight his way to Wlad.;)
....maybe it's worth siding with the humble down to earth Doctor who supports tons of charities and has made something of himself in AND outside the ring.
Oh another loudmouthed boxer full of bravado....my where ever on Earth did they find him???
If he's respectful and a great ambassador for boxing but a glass-jawed gunshy bore and the other guy is a tool but actually wants to fight and is exciting when he does fight then I think it's obvious which guy any boxing fan would choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOr look it at another way. One guy is intelligent, respectful, articulate and an ambassador for the sport of boxing, the other is a complete tool. Which of these guys is most worth supporting? Which is it most natural to be a fan of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Nobody liked Mike Tyson because he was a great ambassador for boxing.
Wlad isn't gunshy...he throws and lands a lot of punches...he just does so in a way which causes for him to take less damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Mike Tyson is now alone, an ex-con, drug addict, and no one gives a crap about him.....such a great person to pass the sport on to the youth. :rolleyes:
The Mike Tyson story is come from nothing hit the big time and leave the sport with NOTHING and go back to where you came from....Wlad has a different story one of hope for boxers after retirement
Assuming each guy is at their physical peak, which guy would you rather see in a fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleWlad isn't gunshy...he throws and lands a lot of punches...he just does so in a way which causes for him to take less damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Mike Tyson is now alone, an ex-con, drug addict, and no one gives a crap about him.....such a great person to pass the sport on to the youth. :rolleyes:
The Mike Tyson story is come from nothing hit the big time and leave the sport with NOTHING and go back to where you came from....Wlad has a different story one of hope for boxers after retirement
Who are they fighting?
How many David Haye fights have and Wladimir Klitschko fights have you actually seen? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingIf he's respectful and a great ambassador for boxing but a glass-jawed gunshy bore and the other guy is a tool but actually wants to fight and is exciting when he does fight then I think it's obvious which guy any boxing fan would choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOr look it at another way. One guy is intelligent, respectful, articulate and an ambassador for the sport of boxing, the other is a complete tool. Which of these guys is most worth supporting? Which is it most natural to be a fan of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Nobody liked Mike Tyson because he was a great ambassador for boxing.
Haye sent most of the crowd to sleep when he plodded to victory against Ismail Abdoul just 5 fights ago. He was booed and jeered out of the ring.
Fragomeni a fat 5 ft 9 plodder almost upset him busting his face open and only Haye's heavy hands managed to save him from once again being upset.
In fact if you back through Haye's career he's been constantly criticised for poor stamina, being lazy, having no chin etc. He was unimpressive against Lasse Johansen, knocked out by Carl Thompson and has looked vulnurable in a number of other fights.
He has looked excellent only in his last three fights demonstrating his impressive KO power.
It was a rhetorical question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle