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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.
When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.
Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.
It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.
When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.
Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.
It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.
Simple but fair comment bud :coolclick:
:badass::badass::badass:
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Nice try. I never said Joe was a "no name"...i said he was not a superstar. And was there a news flash i missed...is Joe, even NOW, a BIG name here in the states? And how convenient...that in Joe's mind (and the mind of some of his fans) he became a "big name" just recently...and hence finally fought Roy and Bernard when they are both over 40. If Joe had the balls back then to come to the states...you don't think Jones and Hopkins would have fought him? Bottom line...Joe Calzaghe didn't actively pursue to come here, to the states (where boxing is at it's biggest stage), years ago. You can sugar coat his career anyway you want...but the smokescreen that are his recent fights here don't make up for his padded record at the comforts of his home in Wales for the majority of his career.
Nice try?
From your first post i thought you was making a reasonable point.. but now i'm thinking you just want to bash Calzaghe. :rolleyes:
Joe is currently a TOP THREE ranked P4P fighter (using The Ring). He never entered the The Ring P4P ratings until he beat Lacy. On the back of that performance, he was snapped up by HBO.. and in turn was able to land BIG money fights against the likes of Hopkins and Roy. That would make him a RECENT big name, no?
Here's shitty pants Joe trying to get a fight with Hopkins before becoming a BIG NAME -
"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.
Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."
- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.
What did Joe do wrong here? It shows he was TRYING to make a fight with Hopkins in the States, no?
;)
What if he had gone to the States and fought Lacy early on and destroyed what they all were calling the next big thing?
That would have cemented his place there and either the line up for him would have happened or fighters would have ran away from him (really exposing themselves),one way or the other it would have worked wonders ;so I say Yes he should have gone earlier,Lacy or one of the others who cares ,the money would of been there after the first fight and after he is proven on those grounds.He should of gone and cemented his legacy first and the money would of poured over him anyway.
He fought Lacy eventually and Lacy although exposed some, was still much more experienced than those early years ,so where is Joes credit for that?
Its from those who now say;"Oh Lacy wasn't all what we first thought".
What about Pavlic if he gets another red mark against him but someone else who his style doesnt beat?
Will they place him in the (He wasn't all what first thought ) class too?
Then Bernards amazing job on him will look like less as well.
Im from Australia I was yelling for Roy against Joe(cause I like what he bought to the game and his interesting fight style) but hey I got to give Joe credit he went the long way around and he has done the job,and he came off the canvas to do it too. He just took a long time securing what he thought he was entitled to so he swapped more cash for less legacy.
Wrong choice I think,but still great what he's done and the records show it.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.
The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?
But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.
Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows ;)
What also screws the pooch,is Hopkins really wanted Jones,probably not anymore,but Bernard spent years calling out Jones.I think Roy was smart enough to know what alot of us allready did,he's shot,and wanted no part of it. He only finally took Calzeghe for a paycheck
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.
HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.
HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.
Were pretty knowledgable here mate, you should learn alot here. And you should enjoy your time here, have some rep from me to welcome you to the forum.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
And I would add,that argument is a non starter
Bruno was huge here,the Klitschko's are both huge here,Valuev,Chageav
I keep having this same argument,but ignore Rocky 4, Americans just arent that nationalistic,its too big a country,the midwest and the Northeast have nothing in common whatsoever,and frankly dont care for each other
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..
Wat do you think ICB?
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gudnite vienna
its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..
Wat do you think ICB?
Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.
But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.
I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.
It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joniebeeuk
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
Well said mate & thats a lot like my own thinking too :coolclick:
:badass::badass::badass:
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious
With respect bud .. JC had a crocked hand going into the Lacy fight, he was nearly out of that fight because of it ... but he went ahead & took his chance like Kess did ... thats boxing bud ... they take there chance and live by it...
Can you even imagine the stick that JC & his fans woulda got if Lacy had beat him then we started claiming re match because JC had a bad hand ....
They woulda laughed us outa the forum telling us he was beat fair & square ... & ya know what bud ... Id accept that, because if he chose to take the fight when injured & it backfired, then Id view that as his own fault .. thats life...
:badass::badass::badass:
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious
Come on TM im not even Joe Calzaghe fan but your being ridiculous now. Mikkel Kessler never complained about his hand before the fight. He was throwing right uppercuts at will, especially the one that almost took Joe Calzaghe's head off.
Hand injuries are common in boxing you should know that, you know how many times i've hurt my hands ? and i've only had 4 Amateur fights.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious
Come on TM im not even Joe Calzaghe fan but your being ridiculous now. Mikkel Kessler never complained about his hand before the fight. He was throwing right uppercuts at will, especially the one that almost took Joe Calzaghe's head off.
Hand injuries are common in boxing you should know that, you know how many times i've hurt my hands ? and i've only had 4 Amateur fights.
Well said mate but common knowledge re hand injuries and perseverance ... & if injured in anyway at all then its up to the camp to weigh up the risk factors involved .... & then to make a decision based on that information & also whats best for the Boxer too given all the circumstances..
:badass::badass::badass:
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gudnite vienna
its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..
Wat do you think ICB?
Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.
But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.
I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.
It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.
Howard Eastman sparked him in sparring.
He was too slow and didn't hit hard enough to beat Calzaghe.. even an inexperienced version.. still, would have been a good fight ;)
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.
It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.
That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mikkel_K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.
It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.
That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.
Hang on.. Hopkins doesn't need a defence from anything ive said. Nothing has been dispariging towards him.
Imagine Hopkins had the choice (obviously he didn't) .. either fight Oscar for 10m or fight Calzaghe for say 5m.. that can't even be seriously considered, not for a minute, second, nanosecond ;D
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.
As you say boxing politics are bullshit.
SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond ;)
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.
As you say boxing politics are bullshit.
SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond ;)
I really ment if he was mandatory , and calls a guy like RJJ out , then if the fight doesnt happen its down to the champ ,
He isnt the only fighter guilty of this kind of thing ,
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.
As you say boxing politics are bullshit.
SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond ;)
I really ment if he was mandatory , and calls a guy like RJJ out , then if the fight doesnt happen its down to the champ ,
He isnt the only fighter guilty of this kind of thing ,
Oh I see. But then i'm sure self admitted haters, like yourself, would still find a way to easily blame Calzaghe for the fights not happening.. ;D
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
As you say boxing politics are bullshit.
SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond ;)
I really ment if he was mandatory , and calls a guy like RJJ out , then if the fight doesnt happen its down to the champ ,
He isnt the only fighter guilty of this kind of thing ,
Oh I see. But then i'm sure self admitted haters, like yourself, would still find a way to easily blame Calzaghe for the fights not happening.. ;D
If he had taken that route he would be blameless.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I really ment if he was mandatory , and calls a guy like RJJ out , then if the fight doesnt happen its down to the champ ,
He isnt the only fighter guilty of this kind of thing ,
Oh I see. But then i'm sure self admitted haters, like yourself, would still find a way to easily blame Calzaghe for the fights not happening.. ;D
If he had taken that route he would be blameless.
Oh well.. maybe he thinks about that at night.. if only he'd done things different - he may not have been a 46-0 multi-millionaire - but at least he would have got the respect of Dark Lord Al ;D
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gudnite vienna
its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..
Wat do you think ICB?
Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.
But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.
I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.
It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.
Howard Eastman sparked him in sparring.
He was too slow and didn't hit hard enough to beat Calzaghe.. even an inexperienced version.. still, would have been a good fight ;)
Howard Eastman could really hit.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.
But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.
I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.
It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.
Howard Eastman sparked him in sparring.
He was too slow and didn't hit hard enough to beat Calzaghe.. even an inexperienced version.. still, would have been a good fight ;)
Howard Eastman could really hit.
If Collins still had some left at the time Joe challenged Eubank it would have been a very good fight, hard to pick. Collins would be there til the end, and joe having not gone beyond 8 before would have had to hang on. The more experienced joe would box circles around the come forward Collins, but without really hurting him.
As for the thread, rather pointless IMO. Yes he could've done more to force the fights, but so could 99.99999999999999% of the boxingworld. Very, very few fighters are anywhere,anytime,don't give a shit about the money types.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Yeah, they all do that. Kessler did the same thing. They make a bs excuse then say they're not making an excuse.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Yeah, they all do that. Kessler did the same thing. They make a bs excuse then say they're not making an excuse.
Bull,anyone could see his paw was damaged,the only reason he went through with the fight was he was afraid that Warren wasnt going to give him a second chance
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.
Yeah, they all do that. Kessler did the same thing. They make a bs excuse then say they're not making an excuse.
Bull,anyone could see his paw was damaged,the only reason he went through with the fight was he was afraid that Warren wasnt going to give him a second chance
I didn't think his hand was damaged at all. I think his people invented the hand story as an excuse if he lost. After the fight he was embarrased when he was asked about the hand and said it had nothing to so with him losing the fight, he knew he'd been beaten fair and square.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Yeah, they all do that. Kessler did the same thing. They make a bs excuse then say they're not making an excuse.
Bull,anyone could see his paw was damaged,the only reason he went through with the fight was he was afraid that Warren wasnt going to give him a second chance
I didn't think his hand was damaged at all. I think his people invented the hand story as an excuse if he lost. After the fight he was embarrased when he was asked about the hand and said it had nothing to so with him losing the fight, he knew he'd been beaten fair and square.
Yeah which is why as soon as I said he was saying he was hurt,the first words out of the mouth of someone who watched the fight with me was, "It was his hand,wasnt it?"
It was pretty obvious
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Bull,anyone could see his paw was damaged,the only reason he went through with the fight was he was afraid that Warren wasnt going to give him a second chance
I didn't think his hand was damaged at all. I think his people invented the hand story as an excuse if he lost. After the fight he was embarrased when he was asked about the hand and said it had nothing to so with him losing the fight, he knew he'd been beaten fair and square.
Yeah which is why as soon as I said he was saying he was hurt,the first words out of the mouth of someone who watched the fight with me was, "It was his hand,wasnt it?"
It was pretty obvious
Yep, as obvious as Pavlik's flu symptoms.
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
I didn't think his hand was damaged at all. I think his people invented the hand story as an excuse if he lost. After the fight he was embarrased when he was asked about the hand and said it had nothing to so with him losing the fight, he knew he'd been beaten fair and square.
Yeah which is why as soon as I said he was saying he was hurt,the first words out of the mouth of someone who watched the fight with me was, "It was his hand,wasnt it?"
It was pretty obvious
Yep, as obvious as Pavlik's flu symptoms.
Pavlik got taken to school,Kessler couldnt throw the hand,a wee bit different
I can see it now,a boxer saying,"You know two hands are overrated"
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Yeah which is why as soon as I said he was saying he was hurt,the first words out of the mouth of someone who watched the fight with me was, "It was his hand,wasnt it?"
It was pretty obvious
Yep, as obvious as Pavlik's flu symptoms.
Pavlik got taken to school,Kessler couldnt throw the hand,a wee bit different
I can see it now,a boxer saying,"You know two hands are overrated"
TM.. you are nuts, son.
Here's the punchstats.
Kessler
Landed/Thrown
Total Punches
173 / 585
Jabs
52 / 326
Power Punches
121 / 259
What hand was it Kessler could NOT throw? ;D
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Yep, as obvious as Pavlik's flu symptoms.
Pavlik got taken to school,Kessler couldnt throw the hand,a wee bit different
I can see it now,a boxer saying,"You know two hands are overrated"
TM.. you are nuts, son.
Here's the punchstats.
Kessler
Landed/Thrown
Total Punches
173 / 585
Jabs
52 / 326
Power Punches
121 / 259
What hand was it Kessler could NOT throw? ;D
He threw a ton of left hooks,he pulled up on his right hooks,Ive got it on tape and watched it plenty,he was pulling his right the entire time
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
And even then Kessler's management boned it,they should have put a rematch clause in there,they more or less bent over and spread for Warren.
Location,pay,and a rematch clause,they pulled off none of the above.
I know they were feeling confident in their boy,but jeez,you should have gotten one of them,they got none
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
And even then Kessler's management boned it,they should have put a rematch clause in there,they more or less bent over and spread for Warren.
Location,pay,and a rematch clause,they pulled off none of the above.
I know they were feeling confident in their boy,but jeez,you should have gotten one of them,they got none
What does that have to do with Calzaghe? You are now (without realising it) highlighting Warrens negotiating skills. ;D
And Kessler was "pulling" his right hand the entire fight? :rolleyes: I doubt you've even seen the fight ONCE ;)
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
And even then Kessler's management boned it,they should have put a rematch clause in there,they more or less bent over and spread for Warren.
Location,pay,and a rematch clause,they pulled off none of the above.
I know they were feeling confident in their boy,but jeez,you should have gotten one of them,they got none
What does that have to do with Calzaghe? You are now (without realising it) highlighting Warrens negotiating skills. ;D
And Kessler was "pulling" his right hand the entire fight? :rolleyes: I doubt you've even seen the fight ONCE ;)
Own it, he was pulling up and any moron can see that,Id love to see a rematch
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Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
And even then Kessler's management boned it,they should have put a rematch clause in there,they more or less bent over and spread for Warren.
Location,pay,and a rematch clause,they pulled off none of the above.
I know they were feeling confident in their boy,but jeez,you should have gotten one of them,they got none
What does that have to do with Calzaghe? You are now (without realising it) highlighting Warrens negotiating skills. ;D
And Kessler was "pulling" his right hand the entire fight? :rolleyes: I doubt you've even seen the fight ONCE ;)
Own it, he was pulling up and any moron can see that,Id love to see a rematch
Who do you think won the fight?
