Holyfield on Joe Louis "I'd tear him up!"

Lyle i think you are over rating Louis he had weak oppstion and not only that but in his prime was beat by a less then great heavyweight not only beat but knocked out and also was being out boxed by a LHW. Think Evander Holyfeild would stop him late and if Evander could take Tyson and Lewis punchs when he was past prime i think he can take Louis. I also think he could of made as many defences to if he was fighting guys who were not really pro fighters like bartenders then i think Holyfeild could of made that many title defences easy i would favor Holyfeild to win it he has the workrate chin and speed to win and competion was far better and i dont get the big deal he said he could win.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by SaltyBacon

holyfield wins throws too many punches for louis

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Holyfield got hit by too many punches to take Louis....Joe Louis was a BAAAAAD man and Holyfield even comparing himself to Joe makes me think it's waaaaaaay past time to hang them up, it's delusional. Joe Louis would whip his ass! Joe Louis is the greatest of all-time!!!

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That's what I'm talking about! :lolololol:

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Originally Posted by Rotten Apple

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by holmcall

But why diss a great like Louis? What does it gain him? He should just go away into the sunset and take the Beast from Russia with him. Louis was a beloved champion in his day.

I'm just plain sick of Holyfield and his "dream." Give me a break here. What part of "it's over" doesn't he get? Part of my animus is due to the fact I hate to see great fighters screw up thier legacy by staying on too long. Same thing happened to Saad and that was sad.

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It really wasn't even that much of a diss. He pretty much just said he could beat him. Yeah I agree it's time for him to go. It's been time. But he fights on for the same reason Louis fought on. He needs the money.

I ignore all negative Holyfield news. That guy that fought recently is named Evander Holyfield. But that's just in name. It's not the same guy I followed and made money off by betting on him. That guy disappeared when James Toney (a former Middleweight) knocked him out. He was already shot by than. But I bought his excuses (bad shoulder against Byrd, Ruiz to much holding was the problem) even though I knew they were just that. Excuses. Cuz he was Holyfield. He earned his excuses (they long ran out by now).

Now I seen a lot of Louis fights. Read and study up on him enough to know he was a great fighter. But he was before my time. I didn't follow him. So I can't back him as much as I back Holyfield. And I don't want to back him up. Louis never made me no money like Evander did. So Evander says he can beat Louis ass. Than Evander can beat Louis ass

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It is rather difficult to get behind a fighter you never saw fight live

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Well, that's why I'm behind The Brown Bomber. Believe it or not, I did actually see him fight. He would have beaten Holyfield IMO, but a compareison of the level of opposition would clearly favor Holyfield who has fought just about everyone and anyone.

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Originally Posted by ross

Regarding Holyfields heart "problem" that was down to growth hormone, thats a problem of his own making.

Holyfield needs to shut up now, hes not relevant and doesnt create any interest in the heavys and is part of the joke that is todays heavys

.

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Not relevant?

He dropped a scandalous decision to Valuev just weeks ago, he's relevant enough to compete with the top heavies.


1;
Holyfield believes that he can still be Unified world Heavyweight Champion.
We don't take this opinion seriously, then why take his opinion about Louis seriously?

2;
As a heavyweight, Holyfield is actually bigger than Joe.
He has actually fought better competition than Joe has in Tyson, Lewis, Bowe etc.

Given the evolution in size, one could also take Holyfield's cruiser wins into account.

Joe was taken out badly by Marciano and Schmeling, outjabbed by Conn and troubled by some mediocre fighters.
With Holyfields chin, anything COULD happen.

Although I would insert the Bomber as favourite, this hypothetical fight could be a pick em.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ross

Regarding Holyfields heart "problem" that was down to growth hormone, thats a problem of his own making.

Holyfield needs to shut up now, hes not relevant and doesnt create any interest in the heavys and is part of the joke that is todays heavys

.

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Not relevant?

He dropped a scandalous decision to Valuev just weeks ago, he's relevant enough to compete with the top heavies.


1;
Holyfield believes that he can still be Unified world Heavyweight Champion.
We don't take this opinion seriously, then why take his opinion about Louis seriously?

2;
As a heavyweight, Holyfield is actually bigger than Joe.
He has actually fought better competition than Joe has in Tyson, Lewis, Bowe etc.

Given the evolution in size, one could also take Holyfield's cruiser wins into account.

Joe was taken out badly by Marciano and Schmeling, outjabbed by Conn and troubled by some mediocre fighters.
With Holyfields chin, anything COULD happen.

Although I would insert the Bomber as favourite, this hypothetical fight could be a pick em.

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Good points, indeed, but keep in mind that Valuev is nothing to write home about. Johnny Ruiz got stiffed in a fight with that Beast.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Good points, indeed, but keep in mind that Valuev is nothing to write home about. Johnny Ruiz got stiffed in a fight with that Beast.

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In truth Valuev is a very poor boxer. He does pose problems because of his sheer size though and for Holyfield to have the conditioning to (imo) overcome him deserves some credit given his age.

You know what I agree, in their first meeting Ruiz outhustled Valuev completely and was never hurt or in danger himself.

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

I agree with Holyfield. He probably would have beat him, probably even decisively imo. He never said he was greater than him, just that he could beat him. I think Mayweathers claim to be greater than SRR or Briggs claim to be greater than Ali are obsurd. Holyfields remark is not.

Right, Holyfield didnt just say hed beat him, he said hed tear him up!

Like he tore up Larry Holmes and Bert Cooper? Both were faced while in Holyfields prime and both were either washed up or not very good;D

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Originally Posted by ross

Right, Holyfield didnt just say hed beat him, he said hed tear him up!

Like he tore up Larry Holmes and Bert Cooper? Both were faced while in Holyfields prime and both were either washed up or not very good;D

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And Cooper came whithin a whisker of taking him out, but Holyfield recovered and rendered a terrible beating Oon "Smokin" Bert.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

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Say what you will about how bad Carnera was (he was bad) but he went up against the BEST. Valuev will NEVER fight the best heavyweights because he will get humiliated...Nicolay Valuev, John Ruiz, AND Evander Holyfield have turned the WBA Heavyweight title into a joke. Sure Evander is a great fighter but he's nowhere near Joe Louis' class.

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all-time he successfully defended his title 25 times, sure he lost to Schmeling but he also avenged that loss in brutal fashion.

As for Joe Louis' "weak competition": Max Baer, Jim Braddock, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Schmeling, Rocky Marciano, Billy Conn, and Jack Sharkey....that's pretty good competition as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

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Say what you will about how bad Carnera was (he was bad) but he went up against the BEST. Valuev will NEVER fight the best heavyweights because he will get humiliated...Nicolay Valuev, John Ruiz, AND Evander Holyfield have turned the WBA Heavyweight title into a joke. Sure Evander is a great fighter but he's nowhere near Joe Louis' class.

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all-time he successfully defended his title 25 times, sure he lost to Schmeling but he also avenged that loss in brutal fashion.

As for Joe Louis' "weak competition": Max Baer, Jim Braddock, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Schmeling, Rocky Marciano, Billy Conn, and Jack Sharkey....that's pretty good competition as far as I can tell.

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We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

Making 25 defenses is a sign of greatness just because of the consistency and dedication that is required.That alone makes him greater that Holyfield.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

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And Evander Holyfield lost to Michael Moorer one of the weakest heavyweight champions of all-time. Evander also lost to flash in the pan Riddick Bowe TWICE and was KO'd by him. Evander also got schooled by Chris Byrd, James Toney, and Larry Donald! Evander lost to JOHN RUIZ.....JOHN FUCKING RUIZ and you're saying he's better than Joe Louis.

Joe Louis lost 3 times...Evander has lost 10 times vs MUCH weaker opposition.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

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And Evander Holyfield lost to Michael Moorer one of the weakest heavyweight champions of all-time. Evander also lost to flash in the pan Riddick Bowe TWICE and was KO'd by him. Evander also got schooled by Chris Byrd, James Toney, and Larry Donald!

Joe Louis lost 3 times and was KO'd twice...Evander has lost 10 times vs MUCH weaker opposition.

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Moorer....indeed only a mediocre champion.
However, with the evolution of the heavyweight division (size,) any fighter should have the ability to KO another.
I believe this applies to Holyfield.
Louis, a much smaller man than Holyfield could not possibly defend a title 25 times against such large men without some setbacks.

As for Bowe, I cannot deem him a "flash in the pan." He had the potential to be a great fighter and blew it. I could see him compared to Max Baer in that sense, although Baer certainly didn't neglect his body the way Bowe did.

A man can only fight what is in front of him in his era. He left a great legacy that should not be taken lightly. Joe v Holyfield at Cruiserweight who do you think would have won?

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Originally Posted by Master

A man can only fight what is in front of him in his era. He left a great legacy that should not be taken lightly. Joe v Holyfield at Cruiserweight who do you think would have won?

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Great post again man, it's crazy the type of crap Louis and Marciano catch all because someone like Ali got blessed not only with great talent but with other great fighters for them to fight.

Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano ducked NOBODY and they are two of the finest champions in the history of boxing



And Joe Louis was just as big as Evander...6'2 76" reach compared to Evander's 6'2 1/2 78" reach

Lyle you forget the age Holyfeild was when he was losing i mean when Joe was his age he was getting knocked out as well that dont mean shit. Prime for Prime i think Holyfeild would beat Louis out husle him as well he was faster and had a chin that was better then Louis look at the size difference of there competion the 90s was right behind the 70s in competion if you ask me Louis era was a weak one hell he almost lost to lightheavy which was the first time he fought there I have no problem saying Holyfeild could win he fought better competion and was able to win the title back i would favor Holyfeild to win he was better in almost everything i can think of and i dont see why people even care taht much.

It's funny how a fighter who wins a bunch had weak opponents whenever it helps a different point of view.


Joe Louis was dominant in a way we have NEVER and possibly will never see. From his loss to Schmeling in 1936 until he lost the title to Ezzard Charles in 1950 he went 34-0-0 with 29 KO's 1 DQ and 4 decisions....that's a hell of a prime of a career for anyone with any opposition.

Lets not forget he did not fight when he was in the army and could keep his titles not to mention when you are fighting bartenders it is easy to make defences and you call Moorer bad well Schemling was even worse and he was past hime prime as well so i did not get the point not only that he knocked Louis out and dominated him hell Holyfeild with condtion of stiff hart lost by a point and both avenged it but Holyfeild lose was not near as bad let me ask you Lyle do people call Holyfeilds comeption the bum of the month club i think not my friend and there is reason why.

Joe fought and beat who was put infront of him....if Holyfield fought as often as Joe Louis did he'd find himself fighting bartenders because he would have gone through all the top heavyweights before the end.


Imagine if Wladimir Klitschko fought 7 times in one year like Joe did in 1941 who would he be fighting????

I would rather see a guy fight greats then batenders but i know Louis may not had the competion but i not going to use that in putting down Holyfeild because he had a strong divsion to me your only as good as the man that beat and Holyfeild beat men that were great all i can say.

I don't doubt Holyfield's greatness, I just think it pales in comparison to Joe Louis'. Just my take, Holyfield is one of the toughest guys to beat hands down....his fight vs Valuev further proves that.

Joe Louis just had an aura about him, I guess kind of like Tyson had an aura around him during his prime but Joe Louis was great (unlike Tyson) and he was great for a long time (unlike Tyson)....if you merged Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield you'd have Joe Louis, he was a power puncher but he could apply pressure and he could also set someone up by using a plethera of punches with power to back them up.

Comparisons to other eras no matter what sport are absurd, first of all the training, diet and professionalism simply wasn't there back in the 30's.
Athletes, be it Footballers, Basketball players, Baseball players, Hockey players, Cricketers, Cyclists and Boxers etc are all full time professionals these days and if they are not cheating then they put themselves through rigorous training regimes and are all on special diets to maximise performance and longevity in their chosen sport.
Holyfield is way off the mark here with his comments, Louis and Owens were greats of their time and had they of had the advantages he has had then they would have been greater!
Almost all of our past sporting heroes were part-timers and their achievements were exceptional given their circumstances. Does Holyfield think that both Phelps and Bolt's achievements in Beijing will not be surpassed given time? Holyfield has taken to many punches.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Rotten Apple

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

It really wasn't even that much of a diss. He pretty much just said he could beat him. Yeah I agree it's time for him to go. It's been time. But he fights on for the same reason Louis fought on. He needs the money.

I ignore all negative Holyfield news. That guy that fought recently is named Evander Holyfield. But that's just in name. It's not the same guy I followed and made money off by betting on him. That guy disappeared when James Toney (a former Middleweight) knocked him out. He was already shot by than. But I bought his excuses (bad shoulder against Byrd, Ruiz to much holding was the problem) even though I knew they were just that. Excuses. Cuz he was Holyfield. He earned his excuses (they long ran out by now).

Now I seen a lot of Louis fights. Read and study up on him enough to know he was a great fighter. But he was before my time. I didn't follow him. So I can't back him as much as I back Holyfield. And I don't want to back him up. Louis never made me no money like Evander did. So Evander says he can beat Louis ass. Than Evander can beat Louis ass

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It is rather difficult to get behind a fighter you never saw fight live

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Well, that's why I'm behind The Brown Bomber. Believe it or not, I did actually see him fight. He would have beaten Holyfield IMO, but a compareison of the level of opposition would clearly favor Holyfield who has fought just about everyone and anyone.

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Really? Wow. How old are you? If you don't mind me asking.

I replied along with a positive rep-heh heh

I was either 12 or 13 when I saw Louis fight some guy in the Chicago Stadium. My dad and brother were with me. We attended pro fights on an almost weekly basis back then and I was beginning my amature career in the Chicago Park Leagues. It was his first fight on his comeback after losing to Ezzard Charles and the other guy was pretty good. Louis won a decision as I recall. I also saw him fight live on tv a few times. He was everyone's hero-white, brown or black. He transcended race.

Louis would K.O. him.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

In a recent interview with Esquire, Evander Holyfield made these following statements:

"Jesse Owens couldn't even make the Olympic team today. It's the same with boxing. I always just look at Joe Louis, I say, You know what, he kind of slow. I'd tear him up.

People say, Joe Louis had twenty-five consecutive wins as a champion. That's because they didn't have videotape. You couldn't pick up his style unless you was in there with him."

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Evander Holyfield is acting like an idiot does he not realize the garbage running tracks, and the garbage running shoes runners had back in those days ? and they certainly didn't have dietitians, and all the supplements runners have to today. Plus steroids which most runners have now and you better believe it.

As for the Joe Louis comment again just pure hating right there, Evander Holyfield was a very good fighter but he also had his faults. He got wobbled badly against B level fighters like Alex Stewart, Bert Cooper.

He almost lost to an ancient Larry Holmes losing the last 3 rounds, and just eeking out a decision by 7-5. He also received a very tough fight against Michael Dokes who was years past his best. And he lost soundly to Riddick Bowe in his prime.

I always respected Evander Holyfield but im starting to dislike him, in the last few years. With all these steroid rumours, 9 illegitimate kids, and him keep fighting well past his best trying to convince us and himself he has something left.

Which he doesn't since 2000s his record is just ridiculous, 1-1-1 John Ruiz, 0-1 against a former Middleweight James Toney, 0-1 Chris Byrd, 0-1 Larry Donald, 0-1 Sultan Ibragimov, 0-1 Nikolai Valuev.

Now IMO he did deserve the win against Nikolai Valuev no question, but just have a look at that record its ridiculous his best win since 2000s is against Hasim Rahman, and even that was on a headbutt.

6-6-1 is his exact record since 2000s why doesn't he just quit ? im starting to lose the respect i used to have for him, and these comments right here don't sound like the Evander Holyfield i used to look up to.

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It happens. Galento and Braddock weren't better. They were C level. They dropped and hurt Louis. Conn a non-puncher at Light Heavyweight shook him pretty good.

I agree with Holyfield. I think he smashes Louis.

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Ditto.

Although i say that based purely taking each fighter as i see them. No considertion to training regime, diet regime and of course, Youtube lol.

Stupid thing to say on many different levels.
As pointed out by others,athletes didnt have the training knowledge,let alone standards they do today,the Yankees once had to put out a story that Babe Ruth had "eaten too many hotdogs" for why he wasnt playing one day,yeah 12 ounce hotdogs in a chilled glass with a frothy foamy head on them. Micky Mantle played half of his career hung over as hell. Also there werent any,"athletes little helpers",so at the very least we know Louis wasnt on any form of juice,nobody can say that about Evander.
Longer rounds and less rules,not that Evander doesnt lean on the rules of boxing as they stand so hard you can hear them creak. But Louis had to fight in an era with more time in there,and less rules while you were in there.

And the main reason why it was stupid,what purpose does it serve? He wasnt specifically asked about Louis. Whats the point of dissing a dead legend? Is it going to get him fans? Is it going to make boxing historians rethink their position on Holyfield? Or will it just piss a bunch of people off?

The more I see of Louis the more aI wish he was around today, he may have been a little methodical but fuck me did he just have raw power and very accurate to boot.

Ive boxed 18 amature matches and know what it feels like in your own fist and arm when you connect at the perfect distance, you feel a jarring right up your arm and in to your shoulders, you just know it landed perfect and you can see alot of his punches doing just that, whereas some like Holyfiled needs workrate, Louis could and probably would pick Holyfield apart when he comes in, making Holyfield alot more wary of that power and slow down to suit Louis.

Dont forget people that would probably be the same size if not smaller if they lost fat have hurt Holyfield, like Ruiz and Toney.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lnTDtqiYzww



A nice match up would be Jack Dempsey v Joe Louis, Louis was bigger but their styles would have made for a good scrap.

If we were talking about the super heavyweights such as Lennox and Vitali I could nearly agree that Joe would not beat modern heavyweights. Holyfield is a smaller heavyweight and would weigh at his best 218lb (if you perceive his best to be when he fought Tyson). If you believe his peak was when he was first champion then it would be around 207lb. Either way that is not much heavier that Joe Louis who superstitiously always tried to weigh below 200lb at his peak. For a fight with Holyfield, Joe would probably come over 200lb.

Holyfield would have to use his boxing skills unless he tried to go for an early KO as Joe could start slowly. Joe however punched harder than Holyfield, his jab, left hook and right cross were very devastating as Ross said, and if he managed to put Holyfield down like Bert Cooper then Joe Loius was one of the best finishers ever.

It is not clear-cut that Holyfield would beat Joe Louis. Holyfield was not that much bigger, did not punch as hard, and was inconsistent.

Well Louis was rocked by even lesser fighters then what Holyfeild got rocked by i mean one of the guys that rocked Louis was a fat out of shape bartender his chin was far from unbreakable so it could go either was if you ask me i feel Holyfeild could use movement like Conn did and out box Louis also ross Holyfeild was almost 40 with the fighters you are talking about so what is the point of bringing them up were talking prime here and has anyone even seen the interview were he said this.

Holyfield is a plank, and he always has been. Anybody listening to him rave after a fight knows this. Anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt. He doesnt have too many brain cells. Just a wee bit dumb.

Id be intereted to hear what scrap reckons on Louis, if he were a young pro coming up with all the skills he has and all the benefits of todays fighters, dyou reckon hed take Holyfield?

I for one think he would, he was extraordionary back then, head and shoulders above everyone else, with that punch and his balance and poise I reckon hed batter all of em and if clumsy fighters like Brewster and Peter can get to Klitschkos chin im sure Louis would have.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well Louis was rocked by even lesser fighters then what Holyfeild got rocked by i mean one of the guys that rocked Louis was a fat out of shape bartender his chin was far from unbreakable so it could go either was if you ask me i feel Holyfeild could use movement like Conn did and out box Louis also ross Holyfeild was almost 40 with the fighters you are talking about so what is the point of bringing them up were talking prime here and has anyone even seen the interview were he said this.

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Joe Louis pummeled Billy Conn in a rematch, Evander Holyfield does move well but he is still very easy to hit he isn't a stick and move fighter like Billy Conn. And he is nowhere near as elusive as Billy Conn was.

From my knowledge Joe Louis was only hurt a few times in his prime out of 25 title defenses, where as Evander Holyfield was hurt a hell of alot more in his prime, Joe Louis did get hurt by Tony Galento.

But Evander Holyfield was hurt far worse against Bert Cooper, and had the ref not given Evander Holyfield a standing 8 count. He may of been KO'ed right there and then.

Lets also not forget his life and death struggle with Michael Dokes, who had been on drugs and was years removed from his best. Evander Holyfield also almost lost against an ancient Larry Holmes.

Evander Holyfield lost the last 3 rounds and looked very disheartened at the end, i had Evander Holyfield just winning 115-113, but you could easily make a case that maybe Larry Holmes may of earned a draw.

Evander Holyfield was a quality fighter with a warrior's heart and excellent countering abilities, but he got shook up too much for my liking. And Joe Louis was explosive on the inside, his little short hooks would of been hell for Evander Holyfield.

Evander Holyfield was getting caught by Bert Cooper's little short hooks on the inside, imagine if that was Joe Louis ? what would he have done to him ?

Evander Holyfield lost a few times in his prime to Michael Moorer/Riddick Bowe, Joe Louis never lost in his prime. I don't believe he was in his prime against Max Schmeling. I feel he was a little bit green and improved quite a bit after that fight.

The problem was Max Schmeling had watched tapes on Joe Louis, and noticed when Joe Louis threw his jab and then brought it back. Joe Louis would leave it slightly too low, and Max Schmeling got a gameplan together to counter over the top of that slightly low left hand with right hands.

Joe Louis learnt his lesson improved on that and beat the living crap out of Max Schmeling. He almost broke him in half, Joe Louis's other losses were to Ezzard Charles/Rocky Marciano. And he was way-way past his prime by that point.

Ive never seen Holyfields fight with Holmes so I just watched the last few rounds on youtube, ha ha, Holmes pukes up right at the end of the fight.

I reckon a Holmes at his peak takes Holyfield though, that was a 42 year old Holmes pushing Evan Fields!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-PP...eature=related

Holmes being sick after the fight was the best bit of that particular contest.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Not sure he wasn't telling the truth though, I don't think the minature heavyweights of the turn of the century or up until the 60's would have done very well against LIston and on. There are obviously a few like Joe Louis and Jack Johnson that might have held their own, but I don't see them beating guys like Lewis, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Holyfield, Prime Tyson, Bowe, etc, etc. I think the sport has evolved too much stylistically, and in size.

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Even if there may be some truth in what you're saying... I think it's pretty classless of Holyfield to be spouting off on previous champions, especially dead ones. Evander should worry about other things, such as hanging up his gloves for good before someone hurts him beyond the point of no return.

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There was no need for Evander Holyfield to make statements like this other than to create a lil controversy and try and get more people to watch his fights and buy that stupid magazine with his interview in it.

Well Holyfeild did avenge his loses in prime and with Moorer he had stiff hart which most thought he was going to retire which he did not. Keep saying Cooper but he was just as good as most of Louis competion i not like he was not a big hitter he could bang and i could easly see Bowie beating Louis not saying that Louis was not great i just feel most of his era was weak the strongest competion he fought was Rocky, Charles, Walcott, Schemling most of those he lost i thought Walcott won the first time they fought now he may not have been in prime but those are the only names that stick out in his resume and most of them he lost to. Now i know Holyfeild has loses but he has fought on longer and been in one of the best eras in boxing and recaptured the title more then anyone else and i dont see the big deal in him saying he could win.

I see so much made of Holyfield getting rocked and hurt by Cooper but what is forgotten is that aside from a wide booming right hand followed by two clubbing shots.....That was it for Cooper.The ref rightfully ruled it a KD as the ropes held Holyfield up and he would have been sitting on the ringsiders laps had they not.
Holyfield went from being lined up to fight Mike Tyson......replaced by the world famous Fracisco"creampuff" Damiani......who was replaced on very short notice by Bert Cooper.Thats enough to mess with anyones head...ecspecially fighting in front of your hometown fans.Before and after Holyfields moment of double vision and rubber legs,Holyfield had battered Cooper from the outset,dropping him in the first and almost ending it all right there.After the KD,Holyfield came close to removing Coopers head from his shoulders with some hellacious uppercuts and hit him with everything but the kitchen sink prior to the stoppage.No doubt Holyfield was hurt up in a bad way but I just do not see the automatic translation into Louis bombing him out.Afterall the man stood up to some of the biggest punchers of the last few decades in Foreman,Lewis,Tyson etc. Cooper had a helluva night and really rode that wave into a all time classic with undefeated wrecking ball Michael moorer.Twice depositing him onto the deck but ultimatly succumbing to another KO himself.Heavyweight history is littered with Greats and not so greats being rocked and staggered by guys lesser known but by no means does that define a guys career.....its how you come back from the adversity that speaks volumes.

The whole Holyfield dissing Louis thing,come on man.I do not think for a nano second that Holyfield harbors ill will or fails to recognize Louis as an all time great who had blazed a trail for future fighters such as himself...I see A great that is speaking on another great and how he might fair against him.I also see a fighter who he is on the way out but can not bring himself to walk through the door...even with many telling him to not let it hit him on the backside and to hurry the hell up.Trying to stamp his place amongst the greats.Pompous,arrogant....proud?Yes.But not meant as a slight I believe.