mayeather vs pacman

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Saddo

OK now mayweather announced his comback on the day of the hatton - pacquiao fight :rolleyes:

who wins if this fight takes place.

this will be a different fight altogether but they are both matched in Speed and i would give Pac the edge on power whatever weight they meet at.

i for one think Mayweather should be no2 p4p now but did before he retired :-X

one things for sure, we as boxing fans have a massive superfight to look forward to....thats if Mayweather wins his next fight ;)

so who you got ?

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If you asked the question 18 months ago I would have picked PNF but then again I a;so thought DLH was going to be way to big for manny:-\

Pacquiao is a whole new beast, the man is sooo fast, he has powwer in his hands, but the real factors are the new changes Roach has made,,,

Manny will not just sit in fron and wait to be countered, he comes in att sooo many angles, he does not stop punching, he turns his opponents around and around before they even know what is going on he is on them again....

Right now manny Pacquiao is a fighter to fear, there is no way to deny it....

I say Manny takes PBF out in 5, Floyds best weapons were/are speed and countering...

Manny nulifies those two

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Yeah but one weapon you forgot is his amazing boxing brain and his ability to nullify pretty much any style.

I would have picked Mayweather 2 years ago. Now it depends. At 140, I don't see Mayweather winning. Dangerous weight because Manny can catch him and give him problems. That is because Manny is a bit unpredictable now. Mayweather will have to do his homework.

A lot of people say Marquez gave Manny a lot of problems. I see it the other way around. What I saw was Manny, as unorthodox as he was at that time (and probably still is), giving Marquez a lot of problems. Marquez was supposed to be a polished boxer (similar to Pretty boy). When Marquez fought Manny, Manny was very predictable. Being predictable, Marquez could have won easily but did not (if he did, it was a very slim margin). So Manny has been the hardest type of fighter Marquez has ever faced. Experts say Mayweather is as crafty, if not more so, than Marquez (that of course will be determined in the fight to come). Still I am certain he will give Mayweather some problems as well.

I see Manny coming in with a strong game plan. Manny will definitely fight similar to the way he fought de la hoya. In and out, potshots here and there. He will be caught sometimes but it will not be enough to hurt him. He will try to catch PB with his money shot but only when the opportunity presents itself.

Anything above 140 I give Mayweather a more than fair chance.

I see Manny knocking out PB rd 8

I think Floyd Mayweather would stop Pac late on and when he was asked the about fighting Mayweather he only had to say yes or no but he didnt he skated around it abit as did freddie roach.

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I think Floyd Mayweather would stop Pac late on and when he was asked the about fighting Mayweather he only had to say yes or no but he didnt he skated around it abit as did freddie roach.

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I dont think Pac calls people out, he is a bloody decent human being. Unlike that knob Mayweather. I can only hope Pac stops the utter knob Mayweather with the same punch, but in the 11th round, after having Mayweather down in each of his previous 10 rounds. I would love to see Mayweather suffer.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Manny is a much improved fighter since then and your comments about his performance against JMM not only lessen his wins but you also make it sound as if theese guys are run of the mill performers.

What are we to believe because he went the diatance w Oscar Larios that was 3 yrs ago and Larios was one of the best in the sport at the time,

So you will then play down DLH, Diaz and Hatton...

DLH was not at his best for certain but even so the hammering he took was beyond imaginable,

Diaz not the best in the world but no slouch, and again manhandled

Hatton had not even come close to losing at 140lbs prior to last night, last night he was not only dominated in 2 rds but he was made to look like a novice fighter...

This was a P4P ranked man!!!!

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Im not downplaying his wins at all i think your misunderstanding what im saying, im saying that fighters that come towards Manny Pacquiao plays into Manny Pacquiao's hands. Fighters who make Manny Pacquiao come towards them have better success JMM, MAB 2, ETC.

Oscar Larios was a good fighter but he was recently stopped in 3 against Israel Vasquez, and had too move up 2 weightclasses against Manny Pacquiao lets not forget that.

I think people are getting a bit too excited over this win, it was a good win and an exciting/brutal one. But that doesn't all of a sudden make him a Floyd Mayweather Jr beater.

I mean before the Ricky Hatton win not many people gave him a chance at Floyd Mayweather Jr, now because he beat a come forward fighter in Ricky Hatton he's suddenly gonna beat Floyd Mayweather Jr ?

Sorry but i don't see it he hasn't suddenly got any better than when he fought JMM in there rematch. He's the same fighter he was then than he is now.

And he still had fits against JMM's counter punching style, and i personally think he lost the fight. Now if he had that much trouble with JMM's counter punching style. What do you think Floyd Mayweather Jr will do ?

He's a better counter puncher than JMM, he's bigger. He has a much better defense and he is quicker. I really think people are going over the top here, and i don't see how beating Ricky Hatton changes his chances against Floyd Mayweather Jr.

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Tell you what,,,,if the fight comes off you make the bet....

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I would confidently take one but i can't do a sig bet, because im a bit on and off on this forum at the moment. And at times i will be off for a few weeks or so, but if you don't mind that we can do that or a rep bet or whatever. Its your call chief.

are people forgetting how Judah gave PBF trouble for the first half of their fight, and lets not forget that Judah has the mind of a small child who gets distracted and forgets were he is from the 6th round on of all his fights,

Pacquiao is as faster if not faster than Mayweather and this will give Floyd problems, the southpaw style makes him a little uncomfortable too i think and with the power manny has i dont see him throwing away the opportunitys that Zab did

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

are people forgetting how Judah gave PBF trouble for the first half of their fight, and lets not forget that Judah has the mind of a small child who gets distracted and forgets were he is from the 6th round on of all his fights,

Pacquiao is as faster if not faster than Mayweather and this will give Floyd problems, the southpaw style makes him a little uncomfortable too i think and with the power manny has i dont see him throwing away the opportunitys that Zab did

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Zab Judah is faster than Manny Pacquiao and there not really alike at all, and i don't remember Zab Judah having that much success. He won 3 out of 4 rounds at the start, then Floyd Mayweather Jr worked him out then battered him for the rest of the fight.

And would of stopped him had it not been for that desperate move from Zab Judah in the 10th round. And i don't think Floyd Mayweather Jr has much trouble with Southpaw's he easily beat DeMarcus Corley, Sharmba Mitchell.

And lastly im gonna return the question to you, have you forgotten the trouble Manny Pacquiao had with JMM's counter punching style ? and isn't Floyd Mayweather Jr faster, bigger, stronger, and much better defensively aswell as a better counter puncher than JMM ?

hmm firstly i would disagree that Judah is faster, secondly yes he took 3 rounds of 4 and then he began to unravel as Judah does, however Pac will be as fresh and eager to go for all 12 rounds or for however long it lasts,

the only two fighters to have rocked mayweather even slightly were southpaws, Corley and Judah, coincedence ?

and using Corley and Mitchell as examples ?? were talking top level fighters here a total different kettle of fish to those two

Floyd wont attack Manny in the way JMM did, yes he counter punched well but after that hed chase Pac down and not just hit him once before getting back on the bike as PBF will do,

intelligent pressure is the name of the game here and Pac will put that on floyd, wait and see

If the longoff has no effect on Floyd he should win.

Pacquiao struggles with counterpunchers as was proved against Marquez.

Mayweather is the best counterpuncher in the sport, has very good lateral movement plus has a very accurate right hand that is perfect against southpaws.

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

are people forgetting how Judah gave PBF trouble for the first half of their fight, and lets not forget that Judah has the mind of a small child who gets distracted and forgets were he is from the 6th round on of all his fights,

Pacquiao is as faster if not faster than Mayweather and this will give Floyd problems, the southpaw style makes him a little uncomfortable too i think and with the power manny has i dont see him throwing away the opportunitys that Zab did

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Are people forgetting that Zab's arms are five inches longer than Pacman's plus two inches taller. The opportunities that Zab had won't be there for Manny. Manny's opportunities won't present themselves in the same light as Judah's. PACMAN will have to look to another strategy. Because Floyd will stay on the outside jabbing until manny reaches for him out of desperation.

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Mayweather also has a very good chin and has never been down. Which is even more trouble for Pacquiao if he catches him

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I still think he went down vs Judah, but that's just me.

Before Pac faced Hatton people talked about certain weaknesses/flaws that would make Hatton pay and that's what happened. As for Mayweather, what can we say that will make him lose if he has not shown any clear weakness/flaw?

Let's see how Mayweather performs vs Marquez coming July and then we'll talk about Mayweather being rusty or not. Remember, JMM has given Pac his biggest challenges ending in two questionable decisions. So if Mayweather beats JMM in a convincing fashion then it will serve as a statement. Pretty much like having them say this to each other "Look at how easily I bet Hatton and you took you more rounds than me to beat him?...Look how I dominated JMM and you got gift decisions TWICE?".
I am going to Vegas to watch this fight.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Mayweather also has a very good chin and has never been down. Which is even more trouble for Pacquiao if he catches him

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I still think he went down vs Judah, but that's just me.

Before Pac faced Hatton people talked about certain weaknesses/flaws that would make Hatton pay and that's what happened. As for Mayweather, what can we say that will make him lose if he has not shown any clear weakness/flaw?

Let's see how Mayweather performs vs Marquez coming July and then we'll talk about Mayweather being rusty or not. Remember, JMM has given Pac his biggest challenges ending in two questionable decisions. So if Mayweather beats JMM in a convincing fashion then it will serve as a statement. Pretty much like having them say this to each other "Look at how easily I bet Hatton and you took you more rounds than me to beat him?...Look how I dominated JMM and you got gift decisions TWICE?".
I am going to Vegas to watch this fight.

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He did technically, but it was a balance shot more than a power shot.

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

are people forgetting how Judah gave PBF trouble for the first half of their fight, and lets not forget that Judah has the mind of a small child who gets distracted and forgets were he is from the 6th round on of all his fights,

Pacquiao is as faster if not faster than Mayweather and this will give Floyd problems, the southpaw style makes him a little uncomfortable too i think and with the power manny has i dont see him throwing away the opportunitys that Zab did

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Judah in no way is faster then pacquiao....not on a consistant basis anyhow

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

Im not downplaying his wins at all i think your misunderstanding what im saying, im saying that fighters that come towards Manny Pacquiao plays into Manny Pacquiao's hands. Fighters who make Manny Pacquiao come towards them have better success JMM, MAB 2, ETC.

Oscar Larios was a good fighter but he was recently stopped in 3 against Israel Vasquez, and had too move up 2 weightclasses against Manny Pacquiao lets not forget that.

I think people are getting a bit too excited over this win, it was a good win and an exciting/brutal one. But that doesn't all of a sudden make him a Floyd Mayweather Jr beater.

I mean before the Ricky Hatton win not many people gave him a chance at Floyd Mayweather Jr, now because he beat a come forward fighter in Ricky Hatton he's suddenly gonna beat Floyd Mayweather Jr ?

Sorry but i don't see it he hasn't suddenly got any better than when he fought JMM in there rematch. He's the same fighter he was then than he is now.

And he still had fits against JMM's counter punching style, and i personally think he lost the fight. Now if he had that much trouble with JMM's counter punching style. What do you think Floyd Mayweather Jr will do ?

He's a better counter puncher than JMM, he's bigger. He has a much better defense and he is quicker. I really think people are going over the top here, and i don't see how beating Ricky Hatton changes his chances against Floyd Mayweather Jr.

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Tell you what,,,,if the fight comes off you make the bet....

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I would confidently take one but i can't do a sig bet, because im a bit on and off on this forum at the moment. And at times i will be off for a few weeks or so, but if you don't mind that we can do that or a rep bet or whatever. Its your call chief.

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I cant commit to a sig bet myself at the moment...at least until Haye/Wlad beccause I have the bet w lefty already...but we will come up w something:D

The tables have turned on Mayweather a little here, he is no longer the MAN!
Pacquiao is the MAN of the moment and it is he who should dictate terms in any possible match up in the future (hopefully this year). Can PBF make 140lb?
If i was Pacman i would be insisting on this, why should he fight him at 147lb?
Next thing for Mayweather is he must get past Marquez, no easy fight for him as Marquez is the only fighter in recent years to give Pacquiao a competitive fight.
Mayweather will have second thoughts about this comeback, realising boxing didn't need him as much as he thought.
The fight has to happen and it will probably be at 147lb, (Mayweather rules the kingdom, in his own mind anyway) i think Pacman will break through the defence of Mayweather and win. Mayweather will be spending his whole time fending Pacman off and his offense will suffer, Pacquiao will catch him at some point.

Floyd wins this fight in a 12 round decision. Pacquiao won't get through Floyd's defense to land anything of significance.

One that could end in that rare boxing beast the draw. PBF has to get past JMM first which is no easy task, I am sure he has been secretly training big time for a few months before deciding to come back but he might just get caught out a bit rusty. If JMM wins then it's all over for PBF unless he decides on a rematch but the glitter would be gone for a subsequent Pac fight.

Allowing for PBF being a little rusty , if he gets in a decent 12 rounder and still looks good then the questions need to be asked of Pac and how ready he can be. Quite honestly although he dismantled his last two opponents he did it with such ease you would need to question his readiness to go a long 12 chasing PBF.

After this past week I wouldn't put anything past Pac, I had Hatton as a sure thing but the little man showed he is something special. I just think that any time recently he has actually had a decent challenge he has gotten a bit flustered at some stages and PBF is capable of getting him very frustrated.

Head says PBF over 12, heart says Pac within 6.

David Haye is relieved that Pac can't grow up the way that's for sure ;D

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Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa

This fight had no effect on my confidence in Floyd beating PAC. Though stunning, remember Hatton did come in with chin in the air, hands way to low, no head movement, and charging to make a sum of forces. This does not mean the defensive genius of Floyd Mayweather will be able to be beaten. Good KO by PAC but it means nothing against Floyd.

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It is more about size than anything. Pacquiao stands 5'6 and has a 67" reach; Floyd stands 5'8 and has a 72" reach. PBF has fought at 147 since 2006. Manny was fighting below 130 at that time. They may be very comparable in speed, agility, and endurance. But, pardon the cliche, all other things being equal, a naturally bigger man will beat a smaller man.

N.B. Hatton and Pacquiao didn't actually look too different in size. They stood about the same size and Pacquiao actually had a longer reach.

Floyd should put all the naysayers criticism to rest by challenging true welters. He should beat SSM, Cotto, and Pwill. That would do more for his legacy than beating Pac.

Beating Floyd would do a lot for Pac's legacy because PBF is the former p4p #1 and a naturally bigger man. In beating Pac, Floyd would just be beating another smaller man, albeit the greatest in the last 20 years, but another smaller man.

I think Roach will see it as his greatest chess match, and I think another aspect is that Manny will be okay at reaching Floyd and getting back out.. He kind of commits forward, but slips and gets his head down and out to keep away from Floyd.. As long as he has different angles and isn't predictable, which I don't think Pac is, Floyd will at the absolute minimum, have trouble with him...
Not to say he won't win and look good doing it, but I don't see it being easy and I don't see Pac taking anything to risky to get himself knocked out.. Roach will have a good plan of attack and defence, and I think Floyd and Roach will be prepared as if it is the biggest fight of Manny's career.. Because it will be... And if he's intelligent and doesn't leave anything in the ring, Floyd will not have an easy time at all...

I am reading the same things most said prior to dela Hoya's and Hatton's fight against Pacquiao. And when Pacquiao destroyed them both some people know exactly the reason why.

And if Pacman defeats PBF, I have a pretty good idea what some will say the reason PBF lost.

I think Roach is right PBF is afraid of Pacquiao. He could have fought a comeback fight with someone Roach will pick for Pacquiao after Hatton. Instead he went for JMM. Why?

"He's a good small man. I'm a great big man."..that's why.

The experts in the sport are saying Pacquiao is one of (if not THE) greatest fighter that ever lived. I guess Pacquiao will have to prove that again in the ring like he always does.

I think Mayweather will stop pac inside 10 rounds i think Mosley,Cotto and Mayweather all beat Pac.

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Originally Posted by Skipper One

I am reading the same things most said prior to dela Hoya's and Hatton's fight against Pacquiao. And when Pacquiao destroyed them both some people know exactly the reason why.

And if Pacman defeats PBF, I have a pretty good idea what some will say the reason PBF lost.

I think Roach is right PBF is afraid of Pacquiao. He could have fought a comeback fight with someone Roach will pick for Pacquiao after Hatton. Instead he went for JMM. Why?

"He's a good small man. I'm a great big man."..that's why.

The experts in the sport are saying Pacquiao is one of (if not THE) greatest fighter that ever lived. I guess Pacquiao will have to prove that again in the ring like he always does.

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spoken like a true fan boy....marquez clearly beat him twice...moralles once...he's limited at boxing..although he will be one of the greatest ever at 130 and below..but if he gets in the ring with PBF, MOSELY, COTTO, he goes to sleep....

I think Floyd wins with a failry close UD and there's a rematch, but let's see what Floyd has left first when he fights JMM.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I think Floyd wins with a failry close UD and there's a rematch, but let's see what Floyd has left first when he fights JMM.

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That's right. Before we make any speculations about Mayweather being rusty after 11 months off and all, le't see how he performs vs JMM. Both can make a good statement by beating common opponents in a better fashion. Pac already did with Hatton by beating him faster than Floyd but doesn't style makes fights? Now Mayweather has to beat the who "beat" Pac twice, in a clearer fashion.

By the time Floyd fights JMM he will have been out of the ring 19 month lets hope he is'nt to rusty so he can get JMM out of the way to set up a super fight with Pac.

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He did technically, but it was a balance shot more than a power shot

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Yes, that's how I saw it. Its not like Floyd was totally hurt or about to be saved by the referee. He was off balance but it was still a KO for me.

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Next thing for Mayweather is he must get past Marquez, no easy fight for him as Marquez is the only fighter in recent years to give Pacquiao a competitive fight

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...and two questionable decisions. Let's not forget Morales 1. I think Morales 1 dominated Pac even more than JMM did in both fights.

What I find funny is how Mayweather will be talking all this trash and Pac will just be smiling peacefully since Pac is not known for being a trash talker. That's why I don't dislike Pac. I just want to see him lose, that's all.

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Floyd should put all the naysayers criticism to rest by challenging true welters. He should beat SSM, Cotto, and Pwill. That would do more for his legacy than beating Pac

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If all that happens, I wonder if people will still throw crap at Mayweather.

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I think Roach will see it as his greatest chess match

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Like I have said before, I think Roach and Moorer were spot on on the 24/7 show when they trained for Hatton's leaping attack and how to counter him and observing other mistakes Hatton makes. As for Mayweather, what mistakes can they study? They say Manny can adapt to certain styles but I am not sure about that specially after seeing him face Morales 1, JMM twice, etc. If someone can adapt to a fight I'll say its Mayweather. He has fought brawlers, boxers, power punchers, speedsters, southpaws, etc. And has adapted just fine. Yes, Roach will see this as his greatest chess match. Now that is a 24/7 I don't want to miss to see how they train for Mayweather.

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Floyd will at the absolute minimum, have trouble with him...

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I HOPE SO. Man! I can't believe I am cheering for Mayweather!

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And if Pacman defeats PBF, I have a pretty good idea what some will say the reason PBF lost

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...same thing if PBF defeats Pacman.

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I think Roach is right PBF is afraid of Pacquiao. He could have fought a comeback fight with someone Roach will pick for Pacquiao after Hatton. Instead he went for JMM. Why?

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"He's afraid" is one of the most overused lines in boxing just to hype things up, bring the money, etc. He went for JMM which is way better than taking a tune up fight with a guy like David Diaz. It's waaaaaaay better considering that Floyd will fight the guy who "Beat" Pac twice.

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The experts in the sport are saying Pacquiao is one of (if not THE) greatest fighter that ever lived. I guess Pacquiao will have to prove that again in the ring like he always does

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I wonder if some people are just a bit overhyped. Here we have Pac who got dominated by Morales clearly. Then he comes back and wins by KO twice, good job. Then he faces JMM and gets two questionable decisions. Fights a guy like David Diaz and knocks him out, people get all crazy for that win which I just don't understand. Faces an over the hill ODLH who was badly dehydrated weightdrained, something even Pac and his corner acknowledged. Beats Hatton with a powerful left in the 140 pounds, good win. It's not like, say, Tyson who kept beating guys left and right clearly. Pac has lots of big fights along the road and he keeps proving to have the tools to take care of business. I am happy to have a guy like Pac in the sport. Bring on more fights!

Check out this ESPN article about the greatest fighters ever. Quite interesting.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest110

I'm not a fan of PBF, I don't doubt his ability, but I'm not a fan. That said, I wouldn't argue with his hype at all if he just beat 2 of the top 5 welterweights.

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I think Mayweather will stop pac inside 10 rounds i think Mosley,Cotto and Mayweather all beat Pac.

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I don't agree with you, but win or lose, give the guy daps for fighting them. At the end of the day, it says something if Pac fights Cotto or SSM before PBF. If Pac went by the PBF model, he would fight fight at 135 and only fight junior lightweights.

Mayweather has primarily an outside style. Many people make a big deal out of Mayweather's defensive skills and they are pretty good, but not so good that he can't get hit buy even a slower opponent with less on the body movement boxing skills. If your review his fights it's because he gets swarmed or counter punched from his lead right. De La Hoya was not a on the toes style but a rather pressure fighter as was hatton. Both were guys that came straight forward and got to mayweather with swarms of punches but didn't give Mayweather too many angles to have to deal with. Marquez is going to give Mayweather some trouble but has problems cutting the ring as well as Hatton does. Marquez had problems with Chris John's deep in and out movements with just a 2" reach advantage and counldn't catch him. Mayweather will be able to exploit Marquez with his 5" reach advantage but will take some hits from Marquez because Mayweather timing is more predictable than Chris John's. Zab Judah was able to turn Mayweather and get in some good shots with his right hook, straight left and count left hook. Mayweather likes to duck and cover a lot, I think it's to conserve energy.

Fighting Pacquiao, Mayweather has three problems he has to deal with. First he has to deal with that southpaw stance which takes away alot of that reach advantage. Second Pacquiao has very good stamina and will have to deal with a lot of punches. Thirdly Pacquiao's speed. This combination is what will give Mayweather his first loss if he ever gets in the ring with Pacquaio. Even if Pacquiao can't get a clean knockout shot on Mayweather he's going to have more connects, and drive the pace of the fight to get a UD.

People think Pacquiao is so much better after defeating Hatton. I thought myself something was strange. So I went and analyzed the fight, punch-for-punch, wrote it down, watched it in slow motion, everything. What I saw was very different than the first time when I watched it without expecting anything. I saw a Hatton that came in with all the right tools and doing everything right to beat PAC. Look at the start of the fight, Hatton bullies PAC to the point PAC is running away from him. Just like an animal who cannot resist when it sees its prey fleeing Hatton charges it recklessly throwing all skill and caution to the wind. Pacquiao instantly capitilizes and intercepts turning the fight around. Right until the last KO Hatton had the right gameplan and if you look landed some good hard punches that had their effect on Pacquiao. But it was Pacquiao who, with his speed and power, was able to intercept and combine his power with that of the charging Hatton to destroy him. This repeated itself over and over. If Hatton only listened, stuck to the gameplan and didnt charge, there might have been a very different outcome. After all that scrutiny I wasnt as impressed as I formerly was. I think that match revealed a lot of Pacquiaos weaknesses. Not to mention he drops his gaurd hand whenever he punches leaving him vulnerable to counterpunching.

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Many people make a big deal out of Mayweather's defensive skills and they are pretty good, but not so good that he can't get hit buy even a slower opponent with less on the body movement boxing skills

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I think people make it a big deal because he is yet to leave a fight with a single bruise to his face. There's a reason why he is called "Pretty Boy" and that is because he always leaves the ring "looking pretty", as gay as it may sound.

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Mayweather likes to duck and cover a lot, I think it's to conserve energy

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I wonder if that is why he is selective with his punches and not just throws them at will.

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Fighting Pacquiao, Mayweather has three problems he has to deal with. First he has to deal with that southpaw stance which takes away alot of that reach advantage. Second Pacquiao has very good stamina and will have to deal with a lot of punches. Thirdly Pacquiao's speed. This combination is what will give Mayweather his first loss if he ever gets in the ring with Pacquaio. Even if Pacquiao can't get a clean knockout shot on Mayweather he's going to have more connects, and drive the pace of the fight to get a UD

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How about if he just keeps throwing flurries of punches only to have Floyr shoulder-roll them, connect Pac with a straight right, and then slip away from him. That's his usual style.