Who among the 147 champs you want PAC to possibly get his 7th division title?

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

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This article was written by Cliff Rold... I think he's an American and a credible boxing writer...

Cliff Rold is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel and the Boxing Writers Association of America. He can be reached at roldboxing AT hotmail.com if you have inquiries about his article...

BTW, below is the link to that article:

link --> Pacquiao Aims for Four (and Six): Real History Part 1 - Boxing News

;)

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Well he needs to be fired from his job.
What's even funnier is that he works for the Ring but doesn't realize that the Ring never recognized Yuri as their champ...
It's simple. Yuri was not the Ring/Lineal champ therefor Sasakuls win did not make him the lineal champ.

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You can email Cliff Rold a clarification if you want... What I don't like in your previous comment is how you mock Filipino boxing fans regarding their knowledge about lineages...

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by Fenster

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

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Well the Ring are the people who created lineal champs.
How else are we to keep track.
Let me give you and example.
For the sake of the debate here...
Daisuke Naito can claim he's the Flyweight lineal champ because he can 'supposably' be traced back to "The Man who Beat the Man"?

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...

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Cliff Rold has really shown his smarts on lineage to me.
As I stated above by his viewing Daisuke Naito is the Lineal Flyweight champ. ???

Dan Rafael... PPPLU-EAAAAASE!
Rafael also recognized Joel Julio as the greatest thing since Port-A-Potties and yet here we are couple years later and Julio is well... Not so great to say the least.

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Naito got his lineage from Sasakul-Pacquiao-Singsurat-Tunacao-Pongsaklek-Naito ...

Well at least Dan Rafael and Cliff Rold has millions of readers noticing that they recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ... ;)
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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by miles

Mosley and Cotto are the big two for me, so either of them. But it should be at 147 and no catch weights because that is the proper WW class IMO. If Manny wants to come in lighter then that's his calling.

Reason tells me that he loses to both, but logic seems to have gone out the window regarding Manny. So, I abstain from making any real judgments. :-\

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I don't see him asking for any catch weight deal. He already demolished Oscar at ww.

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I heard a radio story that Mosley went to the wild card gym to speak with Roach about a bout with Pacquiao, Roach told Mosley sure come down to 142 and well make it happen. Mosley said can't do it!

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

This article was written by Cliff Rold... I think he's an American and a credible boxing writer...

Cliff Rold is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel and the Boxing Writers Association of America. He can be reached at roldboxing AT hotmail.com if you have inquiries about his article...

BTW, below is the link to that article:

link --> Pacquiao Aims for Four (and Six): Real History Part 1 - Boxing News

;)

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Well he needs to be fired from his job.
What's even funnier is that he works for the Ring but doesn't realize that the Ring never recognized Yuri as their champ...
It's simple. Yuri was not the Ring/Lineal champ therefor Sasakuls win did not make him the lineal champ.

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You can email Cliff Rold a clarification if you want... What I don't like in your previous comment is how you mock Filipino boxing fans regarding their knowledge about lineages...

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...

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Cliff Rold has really shown his smarts on lineage to me.
As I stated above by his viewing Daisuke Naito is the Lineal Flyweight champ. ???

Dan Rafael... PPPLU-EAAAAASE!
Rafael also recognized Joel Julio as the greatest thing since Port-A-Potties and yet here we are couple years later and Julio is well... Not so great to say the least.

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Naito got his lineage from Sasakul-Pacquiao-Singsurat-Tunacao-Pongsaklek-Naito ...

Well at least Dan Rafael and Cliff Rold has millions of readers noticing that they recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ... ;)
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You completely missed my point on Naito...
Naito is NOT the lineal champ.
As I said for the sake of the debate (I hope you know what I mean by that cause it seems like you dont) Daisuke Naito can claim he's the Flyweight lineal champ because he can 'supposably' be traced back to "The Man who Beat the Man"?
I thought Nonito Donaire was the best Flyweight in the world according to you and the rest of the PacNut Huggers?
Now suddenly you are saying it's Daisuke?
At this time the Flyweight div. has no lineal champ and that's a fact.
Check out the Ring lineages if you want to see the REAL lineal champs.
You will clearly see who they are.

As for the Cliff and Dan comment, oh! me oh! my Boxer please don't tell me that. I loath to have millions of readers. :rolleyes:

I have my true fans here in Saddos who are THEE most knowlegeable fans bare none in the planet.
Head & Shoulders above ANY other boxing forum out there.
Any....

I respect anyone who's out there for the sport and all but clearly Cliff and Dan are not the final word and in the end the lineal champs can be traced by the Ring Magazine title they are awarded just like the one Pac got when he defeated Hatton. Sadly for you Pac's record as of today only shows 3 and there is nothing Cliff, Dan or you can do about it.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Well he needs to be fired from his job.
What's even funnier is that he works for the Ring but doesn't realize that the Ring never recognized Yuri as their champ...
It's simple. Yuri was not the Ring/Lineal champ therefor Sasakuls win did not make him the lineal champ.

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You can email Cliff Rold a clarification if you want... What I don't like in your previous comment is how you mock Filipino boxing fans regarding their knowledge about lineages...

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Cliff Rold has really shown his smarts on lineage to me.
As I stated above by his viewing Daisuke Naito is the Lineal Flyweight champ. ???

Dan Rafael... PPPLU-EAAAAASE!
Rafael also recognized Joel Julio as the greatest thing since Port-A-Potties and yet here we are couple years later and Julio is well... Not so great to say the least.

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Naito got his lineage from Sasakul-Pacquiao-Singsurat-Tunacao-Pongsaklek-Naito ...

Well at least Dan Rafael and Cliff Rold has millions of readers noticing that they recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ... ;)
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You completely missed my point on Naito...
Naito is NOT the lineal champ.
As I said for the sake of the debate (I hope you know what I mean by that cause it seems like you dont) Daisuke Naito can claim he's the Flyweight lineal champ because he can 'supposably' be traced back to "The Man who Beat the Man"?
I thought Nonito Donaire was the best Flyweight in the world according to you and the rest of the PacNut Huggers?
Now suddenly you are saying it's Daisuke?
At this time the Flyweight div. has no lineal champ and that's a fact.
Check out the Ring lineages if you want to see the REAL lineal champs.
You will clearly see who they are.

As for the Cliff and Dan comment, oh! me oh! my Boxer please don't tell me that. I loath to have millions of readers. :rolleyes:

I have my true fans here in Saddos who are THEE most knowlegeable fans bare none in the planet.
Head & Shoulders above ANY other boxing forum out there.
Any....

I respect anyone who's out there for the sport and all but clearly Cliff and Dan are not the final word and in the end the lineal champs can be traced by the Ring Magazine title they are awarded just like the one Pac got when he defeated Hatton. Sadly for you Pac's record as of today only shows 3 and there is nothing Cliff, Dan or you can do about it.

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Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

You're the one who's off Mick ... including your mockery of Filipino boxing fans' knowledge about lineages... You seems to be fair but my respect for you become lesser because of that opinion... Why? Do you consider only Americans and Mexicans has authority/knowledge about lineages??
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The point is, not a lot of people wins 4 lineal titles. That's all I can say.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

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OK, I am asking you a simple question yes or no.
Is Naito the lineal champ?

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

You're the one who's off Mick ... including your mockery of Filipino boxing fans' knowledge about lineages... You seems to be fair but my respect for you become lesser because of that opinion... Why? Do you consider only Americans and Mexicans has authority/knowledge about lineages??
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I'm ONLY mocking the ones who come on here trying to preach something that is clearly not true.
If he shoe fits, wear it.
I'm fair and I respect anyone who respects me.
At no point did I disrespect you.
Look up the lineage by Ring Magazine on the Flyweight division and you will see the lineage is lost somewhere along Chitalada-Kim, after that their is no lineal champ.
Also another bold lie Cliff typed is the whole WBC/Lineal thing.
Yes at one point it might have been or looked that way but their was no ties between the 2.
1st it was the NYSAC and then NBA formed the WBA.
1988 - Kim lineal
1989 - Vacant
1990 thru 2009 - Vacant.


The things I have to do, to get a point accross and I bet you eventhought I am clearly showing you FACTS you are still gonna be blind.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Flyweight--1980s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Flyweight--1990s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Notice how the lineage is lost in 1989 and is never picked up.

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ. ;)

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

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OK, I am asking you a simple question yes or no.
Is Naito the lineal champ?

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Yes...

Mick just accept for once that you got this all wrong... There's so many references around the boxing world that Naito is a lineal champ...

Daisuke Naito – World Flyweight Champion – (32-2-2, 20 KO, Lineal/WBC)

Naito has done nothing wrong to be this low on the list. That he suffers reflects more on the man he beat for the title, Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, and the nature of his division moreso than it does on the Japanese veteran. To the credit of his title, it has the farthest reach backwards into history, traceable to the reign of the great Miguel Canto. It is a line that has encompassed some excellent fighters along the way, fighters like Sot Chitalada, Yuri Arbachakov and Pacquiao. The problems at Flyweight are that the talent is often separated by national, if not continental, borders and the best fighters rarely get it on. Wonjongkam broke Canto’s record of 14 consecutive titles defenses without fights against titlists Vic Darchinyan, Eric Morel, Omar Narvaez, or Lorenzo Parra so what kind of reign was he having? Not much of one. In his two defenses so far, Naito decisioned one questionable foe in Daiki Kameda and logged a rematch draw with Wonjongkam so he’s not off to a bad start but will he face WBA titlist Takefumi Sakata or IBF titlist Nonito Donaire?

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

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Mick Mick, I've been a Caballero fan since he defeated Daniel Ponce De Leon... JuanMa was not yet born that time Mick... ;D
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Originally Posted by Fenster

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ. ;)

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Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...;)

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ. ;)

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Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...;)

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

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Of course Mick has an open mind, he is a student of the sport, he'll appreciate it. :)

I want him to fight the best.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ. ;)

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Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...;)

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

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Of course Mick has an open mind, he is a student of the sport, he'll appreciate it. :)

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That's what I'm thinking too... Mick a good student and good learner... I'm sure he's willing to learn some more from his fellow knowledgeable members here like you MOD Fens...;)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Invincible

The easiest to beat-to hardest to beat.

1)Urango
2)Clottey
3)Berto
4)Cotto
5)Mosley*

Note: The * represents the only fighter that is capable of beating Manny at the moment and until somebody beats Shane, Cotto and Paul Williams , they cannot be an undisputed champ @ WW.

I don't think any WW could beat Paul W. at this point, including a moving up Pacquiao. Chin too good, work rate too good and speed too good. The only prayer is to KO him and that will not happen. Some may say, "Well, look what Quintana did". But anyone who knows anything knows it was a fluke. Williams proved that in the rematch and would not come in and mess around like that in another high profile fight. Trust me.

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I agree, Urango is the easiest... No disrespect for Urango but he's so slow and Hatton did "beat" him...;) Tho he has massive power punches...
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

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Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

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There is one title you guys haven't mentioned. It can't be traced though linage. Although it's not counted as a Weight Classification Title and it has even been called Mythical. There is nothing Mythical or Hypothetical about some very tangible effects is has on $$$, recognition and the respect it carries. i.e. "The Rings" title that Pacquiao holds is P4P #1.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

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Oppsss I missed this one, you could include MOD Fens in that list since I think he considered Daisuke Naito a lineal flyweight champ...;)
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Roach asked Mosley to fight PAC at 142 lbs. and Mosley said "no" citing the fact that PAC fought DelaHoya at 147...

Seems PAC-Mosley fight is a tough one to make...
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Well i am a fan of Mosley so i am bias about this but i really see him knocking Pac out for a few reason i will state what they are. Mosley is as fast as pac at the weight even at the age of 37 and he is also has great power better then any past people Pac has faced in the ring. Not to mention he has great body punching which while be a huge problem. Also and this is most important factor Mosley chin has to one of the best in the history of the sport he ranks up with Haglers and the Leonards kinda of chin and that is one of the major problems he while cause right there.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i am a fan of Mosley so i am bias about this but i really see him knocking Pac out for a few reason i will state what they are. Mosley is as fast as pac at the weight even at the age of 37 and he is also has great power better then any past people Pac has faced in the ring. Not to mention he has great body punching which while be a huge problem. Also and this is most important factor Mosley chin has to one of the best in the history of the sport he ranks up with Haglers and the Leonards kinda of chin and that is one of the major problems he while cause right there.

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No way man. Shane mosley is good I cant dissagree with that, but I do have some dissagreements. No one said Shane had power until he knocked out Margarito so im not ready to jump on that banwagon yet. I know he's a bigger man but winky was letting him hit him a one point. Shane has great speed but he's not as fast as Manny. I would see this fight going similar to the Mosley Cotto fight except a wider unanomous desision for Pacman. Pacquiao's movement is too good to be KO'd by Shane and Pacs also got a chin of his own. I dont think Pacquiao can knock Mosley out, because like you said he's got one heck of a chin, I just see Manny beating him to the punch!

I think the Cotto fight would be a superb fight. Forget the catchweight shit too, they could make this legit at 147.

So far Shane Mosley is leading in this poll with 37% of the votes but it's unfortunate that PAC won't fight Shane at 147 and instead asked him to go down to 142 lbs if he wants to fight PAC... Team PAC felt Mosley is too big for PAC at 147... So scratch out Shane where PAC can possibly get his 7th division title...
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I would much prefer to see Mayweather v Shane anyway.

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Originally Posted by Master

I would much prefer to see Mayweather v Shane anyway.

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I'll 2nd that ;)

I don't care as long as he lets them fight at 147 pounds.

I'm guessing that if PAC fights at 147 again, it will be against a Urango or a Berto...;)
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Berto looks like sh!t in his fight with Urango... I think Berto is the prime candidate where PAC can get his 7th division title and become the only boxer to have titles in 7 different weight divisions...

PAC vs. Berto for WBC welterweight title... IMO, PAC will KO/TKO Berto inside 6 rounds...;)
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Yeah, I knew this would be said after last night. I guess PAC has a legacy/record vs money dilemma here, though. Then again if he could beat one of the better WWs, his legacy would be cemented even better; while making more money.

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Originally Posted by Myk_Myk

Yeah, I knew this would be said after last night. I guess PAC has a legacy/record vs money dilemma here, though. Then again if he could beat one of the better WWs, his legacy would be cemented even better; while making more money.

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Here's a scenario for a possible PAC-Berto fight. PAC can't close a deal with the top welters (PBF, Mosley or Cotto) due to various reasons like purse split, catchweight, etc. This is where Berto's WBC welter belt come in handy. PAC possibly snatching Berto's belt can considerably raise his stocks by becoming the only boxer to get titles in 7 different weight divisions. It will add to PAC's negotiating power for his future fights...
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Berto looks like sh!t in his fight with Urango... I think Berto is the prime candidate where PAC can get his 7th division title and become the only boxer to have titles in 7 different weight divisions...

PAC vs. Berto for WBC welterweight title... IMO, PAC will KO/TKO Berto inside 6 rounds...;)
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I've been reading long time. This will be my first post.

If Manny Pacquiao fights at Welterweight Division and gets one of the championship belt. He cement more his legacy as one of the LEGENDS of boxing The FIRST and ONLY Fighter and boxer who achieved:

7th Division Champion
4th lineal Champion ("the man who beat the man") in four different weight classes

Wow! That's hard to beat. Very interesting... http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon7.gif

I will put him one of the Top 5 all time boxer. His resume is FULL pack! I wish i watch him fight from the beginning of his career. ;D This Asian sensation is Bruce Lee Reincarnation.

I will put Pacquiao one of the top 5 fighter of all time if he gets the 7th division championship belt. Imagine he is the only boxer to get 7th division champion and 4 lineal champion. He is the legend right now. Bruce Lee reincarnation.

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Originally Posted by BlackHawk

I will put Pacquiao one of the top 5 fighter of all time if he gets the 7th division championship belt. Imagine he is the only boxer to get 7th division champion and 4 lineal champion. He is the legend right now. Bruce Lee reincarnation.

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I agree with you... If not Top 5 then definitely Top 10 ATG...

BTW, welcome to the forum...
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Berto looks like sh!t in his fight with Urango... I think Berto is the prime candidate where PAC can get his 7th division title and become the only boxer to have titles in 7 different weight divisions...

PAC vs. Berto for WBC welterweight title... IMO, PAC will KO/TKO Berto inside 6 rounds...;)
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and that says what about Manny if he picks him? Pacquiao won his title in the 7th weight class, against the shittiest champ of the division, again. :-\ yea that's gonna really help his claim for top 10 ATG

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Originally Posted by BlackHawk

I will put Pacquiao one of the top 5 fighter of all time if he gets the 7th division championship belt. Imagine he is the only boxer to get 7th division champion and 4 lineal champion. He is the legend right now. Bruce Lee reincarnation.

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Bruce Lee?

I don't understand. Elaborate please

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Berto looks like sh!t in his fight with Urango... I think Berto is the prime candidate where PAC can get his 7th division title and become the only boxer to have titles in 7 different weight divisions...

PAC vs. Berto for WBC welterweight title... IMO, PAC will KO/TKO Berto inside 6 rounds...;)
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and that says what about Manny if he picks him? Pacquiao won his title in the 7th weight class, against the shittiest champ of the division, again. :-\ yea that's gonna really help his claim for top 10 ATG

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There's a possibility that PAC can't come to terms with the other 147 champs (Mosley or the winner of Clottey-Cotto) then Berto comes into the picture... You can criticize PAC all you want but negotiation issues might just lead to an eventual PAC vs. Berto fight for the WBC 147 belt...;)
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Berto looks like sh!t in his fight with Urango... I think Berto is the prime candidate where PAC can get his 7th division title and become the only boxer to have titles in 7 different weight divisions...

PAC vs. Berto for WBC welterweight title... IMO, PAC will KO/TKO Berto inside 6 rounds...;)
.

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and that says what about Manny if he picks him? Pacquiao won his title in the 7th weight class, against the shittiest champ of the division, again. :-\ yea that's gonna really help his claim for top 10 ATG

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There's a possibility that PAC can't come to terms with the other 147 champs (Mosley or the winner of Clottey-Cotto) then Berto comes into the picture... You can criticize PAC all you want but negotiation issues might just lead to an eventual PAC vs. Berto fight for the WBC 147 belt...;)
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How can he come to terms with the other 147 champs if he won't fight them at 147? He will fight Berto at 147 though because he is such a big draw, right?

WRONG!

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

No offense for Urango but I choose him for obvious reasons (that's if Urango upsets Berto)... ;)

BTW if PAC gets this 7th division title, he will be the only boxer to attain that...

PAC is already the only boxer who got 4 lineal titles (112, 126, 130 & 140)
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I think they should create a new sanctioning body for this very purpose. Hey, the only thing that matters is that it's a belt, any belt will do.

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

and that says what about Manny if he picks him? Pacquiao won his title in the 7th weight class, against the shittiest champ of the division, again. :-\ yea that's gonna really help his claim for top 10 ATG

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There's a possibility that PAC can't come to terms with the other 147 champs (Mosley or the winner of Clottey-Cotto) then Berto comes into the picture... You can criticize PAC all you want but negotiation issues might just lead to an eventual PAC vs. Berto fight for the WBC 147 belt...;)
.

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How can he come to terms with the other 147 champs if he won't fight them at 147? He will fight Berto at 147 though because he is such a big draw, right?

WRONG!

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Mosley already agreed to fight PAC at a catchweight (could be 142 lbs.) and Mosley can further agree that his WBA 147 belt can be at stake depending on the negotiations and of course with the blessing of WBA (just pay them big sanctioning money and it will be blessed)... Any weight above 140 and not more than 147 is technicaly the welterweight division... So there's still chance they can come to terms...;) If they can't, there's still Berto available...;D
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