Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
It doesn't matter if 150 pounds is 'only 3 pounds' away though mate.
There has to be a single point where it becomes to much, a pound... an ounce... what ever.
He sure as hell shouldn't have been rehydrating with an IVF drip and barely managing to rehydrate at all.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Prove my point? I don't have to prove anything. You're the one claiming Pacster's wins are tainted.
For you to be right, you must PROVE any other top 147 fighter would have done as good a job as Pacster. Can you prove that? No you can't, because no other 147 fighter fought Oscar that night. So you're wrong. Fact.
You deal with suppostion, I deal with the facts. ;)
Actually your wrong again how is it a "Fact" that no one else would of done that to ODLH ?
Its your opinion no one else wouldn't have, like its my opinion plenty of fighters could.
I've backed my comments up with facts, like its a fact that ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since he fought Arturo Gatti in 2001. Its a fact he hasn't been below 146 pounds since he fought Miguel Angel Gonzalez in 1997 over a decade.
Its a fact in sparring before the Manny Pacquiao fight, he got beat up by the smaller Victor Ortiz. Its a fact in the fight previous to the Manny Pacquiao fight.
He was marked up by the smaller Steve Forbes. Its a fact it was ODLH's worst performance of his career against Manny Pacquiao, its a fact he was badly weight drained.
And its a very strong opinion backed up by solid facts of the past, that most of the elite Welterweights. Would of beaten ODLH without too much trouble.
No.. I never said that. You are confusing yourself. You need to focus on what I am saying.
Nobody apart from Pacster fought Oscar on the 06-12-2008. That is a fact. Therefore it is impossible to know for a fact that any other fighter would have been more impressive than Pacster. That is a fact.
You THINK any top fighter at 147 would have beaten Oscar that night. But you can't PROVE it. It's just an OPINION because It's IMPOSSIBLE to prove. That is a fact.
I too believe other fighters would have beaten Oscar that night. BUT it doesn't mean Pacster's performance should be sullied. ;)
Perhaps but the version of DLH that showed up was in name only.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Teath he weight in at 145 and came in at 147 in the Forbes fight he weight in at 150 but come fight night Oscar Dela Hoya weight alot more.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
I meant Floyd SD Pacster. Fact. ;D
Pacster definitely KO's Cotto. You see Cotto the weekend? He will look like he's fighting in treacle compared to Pacster. Pacster will beat him to a pulp inside 6. Fact.
I know your being sarcastic but im not sure if you still think Manny Pacquiao, will actually beat Miguel Cotto so i'll reply anyway.
Joshua Clottey stood straight in front of Miguel Cotto, and is way bigger than Manny Pacquiao.
Manny Pacquiao would be on the move constantly, he wouldn't stand his ground vs Miguel Cotto. He would rely on his footwork and speed.
Now i think Manny Pacquiao is a really good fighter, but i think he's being a bit overrated here.
Ricky Hatton was on the slide yes it was an impressive victory, and it wouldn't of mattered what Ricky Hatton turned up.
But still Ricky Hatton hasn't been the same since the Kostya Tszyu fight, ODLH was weight drained and rubbish. He hadn't fought at Welterweight in god knows how many years. And David Diaz is just mediocre.
I don't see how any of these fights prove that Manny Pacquiao, stands any chance against Floyd Mayweather Jr or Miguel Cotto. Or that Manny Pacquiao stands a chance against any top Welterweight, he hasn't fought a live-fighter at Welterweight yet.
Floyd Mayweather Jr still totally outboxes Manny Pacquiao, by atleast 8 rounds to 4. Anything JMM can do Floyd Mayweather Jr will do better. And Miguel Cotto will be too physical and too strong, and his body shots will be the key especially the way Manny Pacquiao leaves his body exposed, and he'll stop Manny Pacquiao late on.
JMM style suits him way better againt southpaws then Mayweather's, we've seen Mayweather not look great against Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley.
Also I think you are way over estimating Cotto, he's the guy who went life and death with Ricardo Torres, almost was ko'ed by Demarcus Corley, and he was stunned several times against Zab Judah. Manny will beat Cotto quite badly MARK my words. I don't even see it being super competitive, no way can Cotto close the gap quick enough, you have to be close to land a solid left hook if you are incapable of leaping in(which COtto is), and Manny will be moving away from that left hook all night, he won't allow the slow footed Cotto to corner him, and he will land at will against Cotto because Cotto has an average defense in overall(sometimes he does amazing things defensively, but generally he is easy to hit), he can be hurt (say what you want but Manny hurts people that people wouldn't expect him to, and Cotto definitely isn't the guy with the toughest chin Manny has ever faced).
ALl I've seen from you ICB are excuses of why Manny doesn't deserve credit for beating Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya, but Oscar looked fine against Forbes, sure he was focused on defense, but his offensive looked good at 150, that is three pounds above where he fought Manny, and sure you can make a legitimate excuse that Oscar was weight drained, but great fighters still are tough to beat even if they are facing adversity, and Manny dominated him. Not only that but Manny destroyed Hatton in 2 rounds, and you can't say Hatton was way past his prime because thats not true, he looked as good against Paulie as he did against anyone near his "prime".
Miguel Cotto was weight drained against Torres, Corley, that was at 140. And why are you giving Miguel Cotto so much flack for having a little trouble against Zab Judah ?
Floyd Mayweather Jr struggled just as much against Zab Judah in the first few rounds, and Floyd Mayweather Jr was actually dropped.
Miguel Cotto only lost a few rounds and was only stunned a few times for a split second, it was still a one sided whooping so i don't see your point.
I gave him credit for beating Ricky Hatton, Ricky Hatton was still good but he was still on the slide. He hasn't been at his best since Kostya Tszyu.
You can't judge him in the Paul Malignaggi fight, because Paul Malignaggi just kept clinching and didn't even fight after the 2nd round, when he felt the power of Ricky Hatton.
And again i don't see how beating Ricky Hatton, makes his chances any greater against Miguel Cotto or Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Come on ODLH wasn't good in the Steve Forbes fight, everyone expected ODLH to blow away Steve Forbes. ODLH was marked up and lost rounds which he shouldn't have. If ODLH was in his prime he would of blown away Steve Forbes.
ODLH was 145 pounds against Manny Pacquiao not 147 pounds, secondly he hardly rehydrated any weight which means he was weight-drained.
You don't have to make any excuse its a fact he was weight-drained. He hasn't been that low in weight since 1997.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
Despite the size disparity people will be perfectly fine with this fight because
1) Pacquiao fans have made people hate him.
2) Cotto isn't Mayweather.
I love the hypocritical nature of boxing.
It's not that we as fans are fine with this but the circumstances as of late, have made us sort of immune to this, and Floyd was the one who started this yo-yo and then Pac follows suit.
When Floyd forced Hatton to move up, I knew Hatton would not win,
When Manny moved up to fight Hatton at 140, I know Hatton was going to get stratched, I said 5th round knock out btw. Floyd also moved up to 154 and just bored us with a snoozer. ODLH moves down to fight Manny and I knew ODLH was going to get owned.
Suddenly we have Floyd returning and forcing a guy to practicly move up two weight divisions, two of which he has never faught in ever.
But the trend seems to continue, we all got used to the idea of PBF vs JMM but no one wants to pay to see it ;D
Now, Manny should move up to 147 or call Cotto down to 140. Manny has shown he is perfectly capeable of handling himself in either division. There is nothing to do at 140, how many times can top tier fighters go thru Malignaggi? lol Paulie is not even good.
I seriously believe that Manny can handle his own at 147 but he should go after the baby of the bunch and this being Berto if Berto has the heart and then Manny should explore his options. Cotto looks a bit shot to some, Mosley is old and getting older, so Manny, IMO has a great chance.
I have no idea what is going on with these so called negotiations between Arum, Team Cotto and Team Pacquiao. I am confused and I have stopped reading on the subject. I will just wait until we hear something affirmative on the matter.
Cotto at 140 gets startched by Manny,
Mosley? I don't know
Cotto at 147 against Manny would be a good fight.
Cotto does not do very well against SouthPaws and he also struggles against smaller dudes who move around a lot. (Tony was not small) I wont even get into this as their are too many things to argue and it will be kicking a dead horse to some. Cotto lost to Margarina and that was that.
Right now, we don't have much going on in the sport, so I hope someone does something because this is getting frustrating.
We should have a boxing battle royal, for charity even.
;D
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
SigmaMu. Who is your pick between Pac and Cotto at 142, 144 and 147? I list a few because I don't what they're going to fight at. Just curious, since you were able to get all of the other picks right.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
belakbox
SigmaMu. Who is your pick between Pac and Cotto at 142, 144 and 147? I list a few because I don't what they're going to fight at. Just curious, since you were able to get all of the other picks right.
Below 147, I will take Manny.
At 147, I will really have to sit down and consider it.
Like I do at the race track, I have to take a few things into consideration. Where, who, what why and how.
How is training camp? Who will be the ref, where will they fight, what gloves, who will be the judges, what ring size, how is the cut coming along, any new distractions? A lot goes into this, so I am not just going to go on blind nuthugging when I make this pick.
Even at 147 Manny is solid. I am just going by both fighters last performances. But something tells me Manny could pull this thing off. I am not really sure yet, I am going to wait for the dust to settle, it is too early to make a prediction for me just yet. I will get back to you on this one :)
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Been away for awhile, but now I'm enjoying reading this and other interesting threads. Too bad I missed the post Cotto-Clottey fight forum discussions.
Anyway, here's how I see the Cotto-Pacquiao fight:
First off, I like Pacquiao as a fighter, regardless of how fanatical his fans can sometimes get. So I can try to be somewhat objective. ("Somewhat", because I'm a huge Cotto fan).
:)
First of all, people that are going by Pac's destruction of Hatton in two rounds, to say that he'd do something similar to Cotto... I just have three words to say: Hatton is no Cotto. Sorry, Hatton fans, but I had been saying it all along. No way was Hatton fighting for #1 p4p, no matter WHAT Hatton was saying about it. He got exposed, and that's all there is to it.
Also, that fight was at 140. This one would be at 147, or some catchweight slightly below it. Big difference there. Yes, Pac destroyed De La Hoya at 147... but Oscar was shot, a shell of his former self.
Argument # 2: "Cotto is too slow for Pacquiao." I only got one word for THAT argument... Shane Mosley (well... two words). People conveniently forget how Cotto expertly out-jabbed and out-boxed the great Mosley. Mosley was washed-up, you say? Well... ask Margarito just how washed-up Mosley is.
Will it be an easy fight for Cotto? Of course not... it would be absurd to claim that. Pacquiao is the consensus # 1 p4p for good reason. But to dismiss Cotto altogether would be foolish too. He's proven his critics wrong time and time again. AND... he's the consumate ring warrior.
Well... those are my
:twocents:
;D
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Argument # 2: "Cotto is too slow for Pacquiao." I only got one word for THAT argument... Shane Mosley (well... two words). People conveniently forget how Cotto expertly out-jabbed and out-boxed the great Mosley. Mosley was washed-up, you say? Well... ask Margarito just how washed-up Mosley is.
I thought Cotto's handspeed looked noticeably slower against Clottey than it was against Mosley. His reflexes didn't seem to be quite the same.
That being said, I do agree that this is a very, very tough fight for Pacquiao.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
SweetPea
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Argument # 2: "Cotto is too slow for Pacquiao." I only got one word for THAT argument... Shane Mosley (well... two words). People conveniently forget how Cotto expertly out-jabbed and out-boxed the great Mosley. Mosley was washed-up, you say? Well... ask Margarito just how washed-up Mosley is.
I thought Cotto's handspeed looked noticeably slower against Clottey than it was against Mosley. His reflexes didn't seem to be quite the same.
That being said, I do agree that this is a very, very tough fight for Pacquiao.
You know... I noticed that too, SweetPea. I don't know whether Miguel just adjusts his fighting style (including handspeed) to suit his opponent, or whether it's something with the training or whatnot. Whatever's the case, I hope he realizes that his handspeed's going to be key for a fight against Pacquaio.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
We won't hate Miguel because first Miguel is a GOOD GUY, second inspite of being a tank in the junior welter he is not a ginarmous welter the likes of Margarito and Williams and 3rd he is as vulnerbale as PAC it's a winnable fight for both guys honestly.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
SweetPea
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Argument # 2: "Cotto is too slow for Pacquiao." I only got one word for THAT argument... Shane Mosley (well... two words). People conveniently forget how Cotto expertly out-jabbed and out-boxed the great Mosley. Mosley was washed-up, you say? Well... ask Margarito just how washed-up Mosley is.
I thought Cotto's handspeed looked noticeably slower against Clottey than it was against Mosley. His reflexes didn't seem to be quite the same.
That being said, I do agree that this is a very, very tough fight for Pacquiao.
You know... I noticed that too, SweetPea. I don't know whether Miguel just adjusts his fighting style (including handspeed) to suit his opponent, or whether it's something with the training or whatnot. Whatever's the case, I hope he realizes that his handspeed's going to be key for a fight against Pacquaio.
I don't think he's faded physically, just a little gunshy after Marg, and less confidence in his gameplan.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Yeah. I felt Cotto's handspeed and reflexes looked dulled against Clottey as well. Thought he won the decision (by a point) but got the feeling he is nearing the end of his career - which he himself has admitted (the ending career part).
His new trainer, Santiago, expressed that the he feels the speed is still there and is something they will train/focus more on with the Pacquiao fight.
I don't blame anyone, Mayweather or Cotto, for wanting to fight Pac. He's a huge payday win or lose and is an amazing fighter with big recent wins against very good opponents - no excuses for the losers. They lost to the better man.
That said I still believe Cotto has enough goods to TKO or KO Pac. I just think the style matchup favors Cotto.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
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Originally Posted by
SweetPea
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Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Argument # 2: "Cotto is too slow for Pacquiao." I only got one word for THAT argument... Shane Mosley (well... two words). People conveniently forget how Cotto expertly out-jabbed and out-boxed the great Mosley. Mosley was washed-up, you say? Well... ask Margarito just how washed-up Mosley is.
I thought Cotto's handspeed looked noticeably slower against Clottey than it was against Mosley. His reflexes didn't seem to be quite the same.
That being said, I do agree that this is a very, very tough fight for Pacquiao.
You know... I noticed that too, SweetPea. I don't know whether Miguel just adjusts his fighting style (including handspeed) to suit his opponent, or whether it's something with the training or whatnot. Whatever's the case, I hope he realizes that his handspeed's going to be key for a fight against Pacquaio.
You know guys i noticed that too , but i dont know if somebody think the same in what im going say , but sometimes i been thinking if Cotto when comes fight if is overtraining , Could be that a possibility ?
