Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by miles

Hopkins and Calzaghe were fighting men who weighed the same and had similar physical tools. There were no 40 pound weight differentials to be dealing with. If the guy was taller, then at least you knew you weighed the same. The other weight classes exist for good reason. Only at heavyweight can you get such size disparities.

Don't get me wrong Wlad does what he needs to do and it isn't his fault that there is noone to challenge him, but Chambers could quite easily make cruiserweight. Wlad is a superheavyweight really. I think the size can be overcome with skills, but unfortunately there seems to be nothing much on the horizon. A Tyson type figure would put the fear of god into Wlad. Tyson would be his achilles heel. I just don't see how Wladimir would be able to keep him off and stay calm enough to not allow his stamina to suffer badly. Chambers is quite quick, but not offensive minded in the slightest. He has no real power and was too willing to just let the seconds tick by while Wlad kept pawing at the guard.

I've always much preferred Vitali to Wlad, at least the man engages and throws punches.

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It's not Wlad's fault that he has a size advantage over most of his opponents. Wlad's size is an advantage but not that much of a advantage that he can dominate all the fighters he faces. he has a great skillset to go along with his size. The heavyweight division states that anything over 200 pounds is a heavyweight so it's not like he's cheating lol.

Size wasn't a factor for Eddie when he clearly outboxed 6ft7 254 pounds Alexander Dimitrenko for 12 rounds. Dimitrenko actually has a longer reach than Wlad by 2 inches and Eddie was even able to hurt him a few times.

It was all different against Wlad though because he has alot of boxing ability to go along with the size and reach.

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it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

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Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

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Actually, he does, and he does defend and articulate his arguments very clearly and solidly, you're the one avoiding it, his demonstration was to prove that Wlad didn't win only because of reach, weight and height but because of great skills who he uses along with his physical advantages(which is totally right) and he gave the Dimitrienko example to show that Chambers have won against much bigger, heavier and with more reach than him and that you cannot solely place Wlad's victory on the "size but talentless" category.

It was a meh performance aided at every turn by a pathetic ref.

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

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Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

It's not Wlad's fault that he has a size advantage over most of his opponents. Wlad's size is an advantage but not that much of a advantage that he can dominate all the fighters he faces. he has a great skillset to go along with his size. The heavyweight division states that anything over 200 pounds is a heavyweight so it's not like he's cheating lol.

Size wasn't a factor for Eddie when he clearly outboxed 6ft7 254 pounds Alexander Dimitrenko for 12 rounds. Dimitrenko actually has a longer reach than Wlad by 2 inches and Eddie was even able to hurt him a few times.

It was all different against Wlad though because he has alot of boxing ability to go along with the size and reach.

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it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

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Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

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Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.

Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.

Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

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Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

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Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.

Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.

Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.

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So why is Wlad get criticized because he knows how to use his reach and height to his advantage ?

Wlad did hold when Eddie got in close, Wlad isn't an inside fighter though, i can't blame him for holding. Eddie rarely did throw and get inside as well, he was more happy to stand right in front of Wlad and cover up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6TnRvjA8ig

This is Chambers interview after his fight with Wlad.

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

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Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

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when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

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Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

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when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

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Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

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when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

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Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

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....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

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Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

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....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

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Totally agree. It's the size that is making almost all the difference for me. The differences in skill levels and Wlad's opponents isn't all that great, it's more the size and weight advantages Wlad has from the off. If you were to knock 3 inches off of Wlad's height, opponents would have a much easier time of getting to him. In a situation like that he would come across as very one dimensional and limited and would also be revealed by his weak chin.

Wlad throws the same two punches everytime and throws in a clinch every now and then to raise the excitement factor. He is not only boring, but quite limited. Like I say, take away the height advantages and put him in with a fighter with a decent skill set and he gets shown up. Or put him in with a hungry Tyson type and see him wilt.

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

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Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

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....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

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Pugilistic never said that the size doesn't matter, he used the example of Dimitrienko to put that in perspective: the guy was almost as big as Wlad, longer reach heavier but lost to chambers because Chambers was better skilled. Now, Wlad who's more or less Dimitrienko's size (and even not as heavy and not a reach as great) has been able to literally toy Chambers and knock him down BECAUSE he has also a nice set of skills, which Sumkalambay did deny him in first instance.

People want wlad to go back to fighting the way he did back in the day, which would probably lead to him getting knocked out again at some point, he's not stupid! When other fighters use their gifts to their advantage their smart and skilled, when wlad uses his , he's borring and lame and unskilled...Wlad may have reach and height advantage on most of his opponents, but he's more skilled than most of them as well, knowing how to use your reach and control range is a skill in of itself, which wlad has mastered!

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Originally Posted by armin

People want wlad to go back to fighting the way he did back in the day, which would probably lead to him getting knocked out again at some point, he's not stupid! When other fighters use their gifts to their advantage their smart and skilled, when wlad uses his , he's borring and lame and unskilled...Wlad may have reach and height advantage on most of his opponents, but he's more skilled than most of them as well, knowing how to use your reach and control range is a skill in of itself, which wlad has mastered!

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He waits till the last round to use his gifts to his advantage. He only uses one gift and doesnt use any other till the last rounds.


Wladimer playing it safe and carrying rounds isnt "using the gifts to his advantage" He has size power, speed, accuracy, size and weight.

He only uses one? His size, and he only does one thing with it, jab and grab. if Wladimer used the gifts to his advantage he'd be blowing people out in 3 rounds but he prolongs things till the last round. Like I said, there i no excuse for his stalling to use what he has cause he is scared to get knocked out again, if anything prolonging the fight is worse because you can make a scared guy become brave. He should be blowing these guys away yet he isn't and he has all the talent to but he doesn't use it. No excuse for that.

Yes Wlad has a boring style, but so what? The guy wins, that's the bottom line. He uses his skills along with his natural advantages like height, reach, size, etc. If the other guy can't deal with it, tough luck, go fight someone else or go back down 1 division.

B-itching about the guy's natural physical advantages isn't changing the fact that he's the man of the division and wins, he may win in a way that you might not like, but he wins, and that's the bottom line.

Majesty why do you go to such great lengths to defend guys like Derek Gainer and Zahir Raheem but you hate so bad on Wlad?

10 seconds into the fight I said 'oh shit' and kind of laughed because it was glaringly obvious that Fast Eddie had no shot. Wlad fought a bit boring but I agree with Taeth in that he did what he had to do to win which is the theme for guys like Mayweather and Hopkins. Wlad is no worse then Hopkins especially considering how Wlad is built it's hard to fight much different.

The Chambers left hook to Wlad's left palm was surprisingly effective, different strategy.

It's almost like fencing, I kind of like Wladimir though and can't wait for him to embarrrass Colonel Haye. David Haye, that's a guy I don't like. Big mouth, was schooled by Wlad in their head to head charity escalator showdown, British, fought a more boring fight versus Valuev, made a big deal of facing Monte Barrett, is British, it's a lot bad qualities. Not that him being British has anything to do with it.

I don't like the situation where Wlad and Vitali get put against people that we know from the beginning cant beat them, but then after the fight, people like to talk bad because one guy was just looking to survive, or so and so didnt have the skills. Before the fights begin, everyone knows the deal so why rag on someone who you know was going to lose anyway? Like Vitali's next challanger. Yeah, that's a lost cause too.

It's not fun watching fights in which all advantages are on the side of one fighter or another. The other guy has to at least have a chance to make it exciting.

I think Wlad is ok. Personally I look forward to the day when we see a fight which actually challenges him though, and makes him have to work.

Hopefully this happens before Wlad retires.

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Originally Posted by amat

The Chambers left hook to Wlad's left palm was surprisingly effective, different strategy.

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That was one of the best things about the fight. He got that one honed to perfection.

Sultan, Ruslan, and Eddie are top ten heavyweights and Wlad dominated them. He'll do the same to Povetkin when that fight happens. No one is beating him until he retires.

Best and only good moment of the fight.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i..._That_Shit.jpg

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Originally Posted by themacmagician

Best and only good moment of the fight.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i..._That_Shit.jpg

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Really I thought the KO was pretty impressive too.

Funny thing about the k.o. was that the punch wasn't thrown in full power. in fact, it was more like a glancing jab and eddie's reaction was like he just died hanging in the ropes. arrgh!

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Taeth

When will this guy become a top 10 p4p?I hope this cements him as one of the best in the sport. Wladimir Klitschko is big, faster, and powerful. He really impressed me with his athletic ability in this one. Chambers is very quick and Wladimir completely controlled his speed. Not only that but Wlad showed a lot of speed himself.

He's truly a special fighter who may never be appreciated in his time.

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Corrie Sanders;D

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Buster Douglas :-X

This is a better picture, proof Eddie should of taken it to the ground!! :p

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a7/fu...dimir_klit.jpg

Ha Ha Ha...Love the smile on Eddies face while he is carrying the big Man.....Too much

It was an obvious mental thing he did was trying to show how strong he was on the inside everytime they got close early, to the point that I thought there might be a tiny glimmer of hope, but it never amounted to anything.

I noticed one thing though about Wlad

And you can witness this for yourselves if you look back at the klitschko vs chagaev fight videos.

When ever Chagaev would charge forward, Klitschko would take a little hop back...or occassionally to the side.

But what I really found interesting is, when Chagaev did get in close, Klitschko held him.

Now in many boxing matches, when 2 fighters get in a clinch, the ref gives them a chance or a little time to work themselves out of the clinch. -but- in Klitschkos fight, the ref came in and seperated the fighters almost every time, as quickly as he could.

Now you may say, "So what?"

On the inside, the smaller fighter has his best chance... that is while he is not tied up by Klitschko :) But if the ref comes every single time and instantly seperates them..... the small fighter has to work to get in close yet again...

and again...

and again...

only to get tied up, and seperated.

Now Im sorry and dont mean to hate but uh.... that sucks for the small fighter. Thats just a waste of energy to get on the inside only to have next to no chance to capitalize on it.

Anyone else see it the way I do?

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

I noticed one thing though about Wlad

And you can witness this for yourselves if you look back at the klitschko vs chagaev fight videos.

When ever Chagaev would charge forward, Klitschko would take a little hop back...or occassionally to the side.

But what I really found interesting is, when Chagaev did get in close, Klitschko held him.

Now in many boxing matches, when 2 fighters get in a clinch, the ref gives them a chance or a little time to work themselves out of the clinch. -but- in Klitschkos fight, the ref came in and seperated the fighters almost every time, as quickly as he could.

Now you may say, "So what?"

On the inside, the smaller fighter has his best chance... that is while he is not tied up by Klitschko :) But if the ref comes every single time and instantly seperates them..... the small fighter has to work to get in close yet again...

and again...

and again...

only to get tied up, and seperated.

Now Im sorry and dont mean to hate but uh.... that sucks for the small fighter. Thats just a waste of energy to get on the inside only to have next to no chance to capitalize on it.

Anyone else see it the way I do?

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NO

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Originally Posted by skel1983

This is a better picture, proof Eddie should of taken it to the ground!! :p

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a7/fu...dimir_klit.jpg

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think if more heavyweights do that to him he will stop all the holding?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

I noticed one thing though about Wlad

And you can witness this for yourselves if you look back at the klitschko vs chagaev fight videos.

When ever Chagaev would charge forward, Klitschko would take a little hop back...or occassionally to the side.

But what I really found interesting is, when Chagaev did get in close, Klitschko held him.

Now in many boxing matches, when 2 fighters get in a clinch, the ref gives them a chance or a little time to work themselves out of the clinch. -but- in Klitschkos fight, the ref came in and seperated the fighters almost every time, as quickly as he could.

Now you may say, "So what?"

On the inside, the smaller fighter has his best chance... that is while he is not tied up by Klitschko :) But if the ref comes every single time and instantly seperates them..... the small fighter has to work to get in close yet again...

and again...

and again...

only to get tied up, and seperated.

Now Im sorry and dont mean to hate but uh.... that sucks for the small fighter. Thats just a waste of energy to get on the inside only to have next to no chance to capitalize on it.

Anyone else see it the way I do?

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NO

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Well, you obviously dont. Care to explain?

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

I noticed one thing though about Wlad

And you can witness this for yourselves if you look back at the klitschko vs chagaev fight videos.

When ever Chagaev would charge forward, Klitschko would take a little hop back...or occassionally to the side.

But what I really found interesting is, when Chagaev did get in close, Klitschko held him.

Now in many boxing matches, when 2 fighters get in a clinch, the ref gives them a chance or a little time to work themselves out of the clinch. -but- in Klitschkos fight, the ref came in and seperated the fighters almost every time, as quickly as he could.

Now you may say, "So what?"

On the inside, the smaller fighter has his best chance... that is while he is not tied up by Klitschko :) But if the ref comes every single time and instantly seperates them..... the small fighter has to work to get in close yet again...

and again...

and again...

only to get tied up, and seperated.

Now Im sorry and dont mean to hate but uh.... that sucks for the small fighter. Thats just a waste of energy to get on the inside only to have next to no chance to capitalize on it.

Anyone else see it the way I do?

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NO

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Well, you obviously dont. Care to explain?

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I already explained everything to Ninja Spies 1 and 2

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

NO

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Well, you obviously dont. Care to explain?

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I already explained everything to Ninja Spies 1 and 2

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Ok, I got it. ;-) Any other takers?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by miles

Hopkins and Calzaghe were fighting men who weighed the same and had similar physical tools. There were no 40 pound weight differentials to be dealing with. If the guy was taller, then at least you knew you weighed the same. The other weight classes exist for good reason. Only at heavyweight can you get such size disparities.

Don't get me wrong Wlad does what he needs to do and it isn't his fault that there is noone to challenge him, but Chambers could quite easily make cruiserweight. Wlad is a superheavyweight really. I think the size can be overcome with skills, but unfortunately there seems to be nothing much on the horizon. A Tyson type figure would put the fear of god into Wlad. Tyson would be his achilles heel. I just don't see how Wladimir would be able to keep him off and stay calm enough to not allow his stamina to suffer badly. Chambers is quite quick, but not offensive minded in the slightest. He has no real power and was too willing to just let the seconds tick by while Wlad kept pawing at the guard.

I've always much preferred Vitali to Wlad, at least the man engages and throws punches.

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yes and someone with the advantages of Wladimer, fights like he has none at all.

As I said he has size, reach, speed, accuracy and POWER over any other Heavyweight out there. A height and reach advantage as well.

Now, why would someone with all these advantages have to take 12 rounds to stop any opponent? Simply put he is afraid of getting knocked out again. If he used all the skill he has he would be blowing people out in a round or two. You can talk trash about Lennox Lewis all you want but when he had someone he took them out of there so he wouldnt get caught with anything crazy. Wladimer just prolongs and prolongs and prolongs.

When Lennox had someone hurt he got them out.

Fact is Wladimer would take 12 rounds to beat Andrew Golata now, and Lewis knocked him out in the first round.

People can try to say Lennox was boring but he never "prolong"ed anything.

Tua he never really hurt and boxed safely and it was a boring fight. But Wladimer has no tua's in front of him, no one thats gonna blow him out. he had freaking eddie chambers in front of him, 50 pound weight advantage, 6 inch height advantage probably a long reach advantage too and yet it takes him 12 rounds to beat this guy? Why anyone tries to excuse Wlads boringness is beyond me

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What the Tua/Lewis fight lacked in constant action made up for it ion the shots they took....Both fighters ate some big big punches in that bout

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Not really David Tua landed about 4 solid punches in the bout, and im not sure if any of them were that flush. Considering Lennox Lewis was always moving backwards from the punch, taking the sting out of it.

Not a fight i would ever want to rewatch, David Tua was suprisingly very defensive. And never really tried to win, and Lennox Lewis was very boring to watch in that fight for me, a real stinker of a fight considering the two fighters.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

I noticed one thing though about Wlad

And you can witness this for yourselves if you look back at the klitschko vs chagaev fight videos.

When ever Chagaev would charge forward, Klitschko would take a little hop back...or occassionally to the side.

But what I really found interesting is, when Chagaev did get in close, Klitschko held him.

Now in many boxing matches, when 2 fighters get in a clinch, the ref gives them a chance or a little time to work themselves out of the clinch. -but- in Klitschkos fight, the ref came in and seperated the fighters almost every time, as quickly as he could.

Now you may say, "So what?"

On the inside, the smaller fighter has his best chance... that is while he is not tied up by Klitschko :) But if the ref comes every single time and instantly seperates them..... the small fighter has to work to get in close yet again...

and again...

and again...

only to get tied up, and seperated.

Now Im sorry and dont mean to hate but uh.... that sucks for the small fighter. Thats just a waste of energy to get on the inside only to have next to no chance to capitalize on it.

Anyone else see it the way I do?

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NO

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Examples:

0:43
1:03
YouTube - Klitschko vs Chagaev round 1


rnd 2
0:10
YouTube - Klitschko vs Chagaev round 2

Rnd 5
1:40 - wtf??
YouTube - Klitschko vs Chagaev round 5

Round 6
1:34
1:52
2:20
YouTube - Klitschko vs Chagaev round 6

Well holding is not against the rules...Though ,makes for boring fights but look at the videos...For example in the first at abt 40 seconds in...Wlad had him all tangled up Chagaev was not going to punch his way out of it...Why allow time to just mangle each other...I could see if there was some chance for some work to be done but more or less it is a struggle to get out of a sleeping bag not close quarter in fighting

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Well holding is not against the rules...Though ,makes for boring fights but look at the videos...For example in the first at abt 40 seconds in...Wlad had him all tangled up Chagaev was not going to punch his way out of it...Why allow time to just mangle each other...I could see if there was some chance for some work to be done but more or less it is a struggle to get out of a sleeping bag not close quarter in fighting

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Holding isn't against the rules. And it's not like VLad's opponents and their expensive trainser don't know Vlad holds. That they haven't figured a way to counteract his holding is more testament to his ability. That said, I'm not a fan of holding at all. I hate when Bernard does it and I hate when Vlad does it.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Well holding is not against the rules...Though ,makes for boring fights but look at the videos...For example in the first at abt 40 seconds in...Wlad had him all tangled up Chagaev was not going to punch his way out of it...Why allow time to just mangle each other...I could see if there was some chance for some work to be done but more or less it is a struggle to get out of a sleeping bag not close quarter in fighting

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Holding isn't against the rules. And it's not like VLad's opponents and their expensive trainser don't know Vlad holds. That they haven't figured a way to counteract his holding is more testament to his ability. That said, I'm not a fan of holding at all. I hate when Bernard does it and I hate when Vlad does it.

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Bernard only started constant holding once he reached his late 30's where he had to change up his style to suit his declining physical attributes.