US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by miles

If you are an Englishman living in England you should be able to wear those colours anytime you like, unless your school has a specific uniform in which case NOBODY should be wearing any colours. That's my point here, it is a school, if there is no uniform policy then the kids cannot be blamed. No Mexican colours and no US colours either.

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That's the thing though. They aren't wearing them anytime they like. They're wearing them on that specific day to spark a reaction from the Mexicans, and in my book that is extremely xenophobic.

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I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ono

That's the thing though. They aren't wearing them anytime they like. They're wearing them on that specific day to spark a reaction from the Mexicans, and in my book that is extremely xenophobic.

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I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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I wouldn't say he sounds like a racist but other than that i fully agree with your post.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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I wouldn't say he sounds like a racist but other than that i fully agree with your post.

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Maybe not, but I'm exercising my democratic right to call him a racist and if he doesn't like it he can fuck off the forum ;D

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ono

That's the thing though. They aren't wearing them anytime they like. They're wearing them on that specific day to spark a reaction from the Mexicans, and in my book that is extremely xenophobic.

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I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Because it's the message that the t-shirt conveys. And it's the thought that's gone in to choosing to wear it on that very specific way. That's what some Mexican people might find upsetting. It's the acknowledgment that they're not really accepted by some Americans. Granted, you'd be okay with it in Korea, but i find it hard to believe that you're viewed as a second class citizen in Korea (correct me if i'm wrong).

Plus the teacher only sent them home in case it caused a problem.

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No, I am not seen as a second class citizen.

But you know, I do worry about the future and my children. They won't be English and they won't quite be Korean, but no chance they will ever end up in a situation such as this. They will need to respect their Korean side as well as their English side. I would always teach them about the idiocy of real life people and how characters in books are so much better than the twits on forums.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ono

That's the thing though. They aren't wearing them anytime they like. They're wearing them on that specific day to spark a reaction from the Mexicans, and in my book that is extremely xenophobic.

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I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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My original argument was about the shirts and that people should wear what they want no matter what the faith of those who disagree on that particular day is.

Actually, no Bilbo, I wouldn't be offended by those teachers. It wouldn't bother me. Despite your argument, I am not nationalistic and never will be.

And I cannot believe you have just suggested that I am a racist. You are better than that Bilbo! :rolleyes:

And my deportation comment was an honest one, if you don't like the country you are living in then why should you stay there? You are an immigrant and don't want the other natives saying "ahm an Arerriicaan". You've just got to learn to integrate somehow. It isn't Mexico.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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I wouldn't say he sounds like a racist but other than that i fully agree with your post.

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Maybe not, but I'm exercising my democratic right to call him a racist and if he doesn't like it he can fuck off the forum ;D

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Maybe, I will. Good job, Bilbo.

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Originally Posted by miles

And my deportation comment was an honest one, if you don't like the country you are living in then why should you stay there? You are an immigrant and don't want the other natives saying "ahm an Arerriicaan". You've just got to learn to integrate somehow. It isn't Mexico.

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It's not as simple as that though. Nobody is going to move because a few trouble-making kids are being xenophobic. But people might react to it...which is why the kids were sent home.

I am siding with miles on this one.

Bilbo and Miles have really reversed roles on this topic.

There is no such thing as being free in this world to many rules! P.S they should have worn union jack shirts they go down well everywhere! :)

The day I am getting told that I cannot wear a flag of my country in my own homeland if ever I feel to do so because some immigrants/sons of immigrants and the direction of an establishment from where I am from decide that it is wrong I am making a revolution. Everybody's welcome to celebrate their national holiday in my country if they feel so but they shall not forget that they have to respect the history of the country as well as the citizens around.

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Originally Posted by Nameless

The day I am getting told that I cannot wear a flag of my country in my own homeland if ever I feel to do so because some immigrants/sons of immigrants and the direction of an establishment from where I am from decide that it is wrong I am making a revolution. Everybody's welcome to celebrate their national holiday in my country if they feel so but they shall not forget that they have to respect the history of the country as well as the citizens around.

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They weren't doing anything to disrespect the country though. It was the American kids that were wearing the t-shirts to provoke a reaction from the Mexicans. I'm not sure how only me and Bilbo are seeing this. Baffling.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Nameless

The day I am getting told that I cannot wear a flag of my country in my own homeland if ever I feel to do so because some immigrants/sons of immigrants and the direction of an establishment from where I am from decide that it is wrong I am making a revolution. Everybody's welcome to celebrate their national holiday in my country if they feel so but they shall not forget that they have to respect the history of the country as well as the citizens around.

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They weren't doing anything to disrespect the country though. It was the American kids that were wearing the t-shirts to provoke a reaction from the Mexicans. I'm not sure how only me and Bilbo are seeing this. Baffling.

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Indeed. The flag wearing isn't even the issue. It's not about flags, patriotism or anything else.

It's a simple case of a school principle wanting to maintain order and not wanting to take any risks with any threat of violence and aggro.

Nobody was punished, nobody had their rights or freedoms taken away. It was just a bunch of antagonistic students who clearly wanted to show to send a message to the Mexicans at their school and the principle, in wanting to diffuse the situation asked them to get changed. They refused, (clearly they were dicks) and so he sent them home, where they then whined about how hard done they were.

It's no different to if there was a national Homosexual Day, and on that day a group of students turned up with tshirts saying that God hates fags. It's the right of the student to wear the t shirt, but if there are gay kids at that school who feel targeted as a result then the principle will likely make them take them off of send them home.

Again, nothing to do with denying people their rights to freedom, but everything to with the principles responsibility to maintain order.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Can you not see the flaw in your logic here? None of the marchers claimed it was a hate march. It was just a peaceful march that just happened to include Wooten Basset. It was those who took offence (i.e the British people) that decided it was a hate march and an incitement to violence.

This is the same here. The flag wearing students insist they did nothing wrong and just happened to choose to wear these particular t-shirts on this day, but the Mexicans clearly felt they were being disrespected and targeted.

And those muslims, (and the Mexicans) just happen to live in these countries too.

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Its a fundementalist march held on the very same day and in the very same place that dead soliders are being carried through the streets. If that isnt a hate march i dont know what is.

This is the equivelant of myself not being allowed to wear my england top on the day eid or whatever the hell they celebrate.

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It's the same principle here. On the very same day, and the very same place that the Mexican students are celebrating their national day a group of Americans turn up parading their own flag.

How can you not see that this could be an incitement to violence also?

It's not the principles job to allow his students to actively demonstrate their right to freedom of speech, it's his job to prevent the students from stabbing each other.

Given the levels of violence in American schools they clearly didn't want to take any chances in an American vs Mexican brawl taking place.

And all the principle did was tell them to either take the tshirts off or go home for the afternoon. There was no punishments or suspension. He just wanted to keep the peace, and these whiny cunts and their parents kick off just demonstrating the fact that they only wore them to antagonise in the first place.

Sorry, but they are just a bunch of racist knobheads imo.

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Observe people. This is how you play the race card. BTW 1 of the kids wanting to wear the American flags and colors is half Mexican.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ono

That's the thing though. They aren't wearing them anytime they like. They're wearing them on that specific day to spark a reaction from the Mexicans, and in my book that is extremely xenophobic.

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I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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Number 1, no matter how hateful or unpopular the speech or expression is, one can express them in America today. That's how the 1st amendment works. And tbh, even if the kids wanted to make a statement with those shirts they are well within their rights.

A famous case in the 1970s tested the 1st amendment rights. A group of Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Ohio where a group of Jewish Holocaust survivors were residing. The community was in a uproar and wanted to stop the event. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) headed by a Jewish man wanted to protect and argued in favor of the 1st amendment rights for the Nazi protestors. His reasoning was that the 1st amendment rights protected freedom of speech and expression, no matter how offensive or unpopular it is. The courts sided with the ACLU and said they were right, that is the basis of the 1st amendment right.

It's something you won't understand. Europe and America are just entirely different with regards to situations like this.

And BTW, stop calling people racist when they don't agree with you. It's pathetic, although not as bad as being sexually attracted to little kids.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I just don't get how the Mexicans living in America can be upset by American people wearing their own colours. It is a bit rude, but that's it. Would it really upset you that much? I know it wouldn't bother me. If the Koreans all started wearing Korean flags, would I be upset? No, I know they are all hardened nationalists. It wouldn't bother me a bit.

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Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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Number 1, no matter how hateful or unpopular the speech or expression is, one can express them in America today. That's how the 1st amendment works. And tbh, even if the kids wanted to make a statement with those shirts they are well within their rights.

A famous case in the 1970s tested the 1st amendment rights. A group of Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Ohio where a group of Jewish Holocaust survivors were residing. The community was in a uproar and wanted to stop the event. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) headed by a Jewish man wanted to protect and argued in favor of the 1st amendment rights for the Nazi protestors. His reasoning was that the 1st amendment rights protected freedom of speech and expression, no matter how offensive or unpopular it is. The courts sided with the ACLU and said they were right, that is the basis of the 1st amendment right.

It's something you won't understand. Europe and America are just entirely different with regards to situations like this.

And BTW, stop calling people racist when they don't agree with you. It's pathetic, although not as bad as being sexually attracted to little kids.

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A nice inconsistency there.

Go fuck yourself, tosser.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Miles if South Korea decided to celebrate an National British day and on that day, and that day only several of your fellow Korean teachers turned up draped in the Korean flag I guarantee you you would take offence to that and feel as if they were deliberately telling you to fuck off home.

It has NOTHING to do with rights, freedoms or political correctness, it's just simple racism and aggression.

It's no different really to the crazed Phelps Baptist church picketing the funerals of fallen US soldiers and celebrating their deaths.

Yes it IS their right to do so according to freedom of speech, but it's an incitement to hate and violence and so everybody universally hates them for it.

You just sound like a racist to me, or at the very least someone who is happy to offend an entire minority group in order to make a very petty point.

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Number 1, no matter how hateful or unpopular the speech or expression is, one can express them in America today. That's how the 1st amendment works. And tbh, even if the kids wanted to make a statement with those shirts they are well within their rights.

A famous case in the 1970s tested the 1st amendment rights. A group of Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Ohio where a group of Jewish Holocaust survivors were residing. The community was in a uproar and wanted to stop the event. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) headed by a Jewish man wanted to protect and argued in favor of the 1st amendment rights for the Nazi protestors. His reasoning was that the 1st amendment rights protected freedom of speech and expression, no matter how offensive or unpopular it is. The courts sided with the ACLU and said they were right, that is the basis of the 1st amendment right.

It's something you won't understand. Europe and America are just entirely different with regards to situations like this.

And BTW, stop calling people racist when they don't agree with you. It's pathetic, although not as bad as being sexually attracted to little kids.

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A nice inconsistency there.

Go fuck yourself, tosser.

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At least I don't make threads about wanting to fukk somone that is known for playing little kids roles all their life and asking random strangers on the internet if it's alright.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Number 1, no matter how hateful or unpopular the speech or expression is, one can express them in America today. That's how the 1st amendment works. And tbh, even if the kids wanted to make a statement with those shirts they are well within their rights.

A famous case in the 1970s tested the 1st amendment rights. A group of Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Ohio where a group of Jewish Holocaust survivors were residing. The community was in a uproar and wanted to stop the event. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) headed by a Jewish man wanted to protect and argued in favor of the 1st amendment rights for the Nazi protestors. His reasoning was that the 1st amendment rights protected freedom of speech and expression, no matter how offensive or unpopular it is. The courts sided with the ACLU and said they were right, that is the basis of the 1st amendment right.

It's something you won't understand. Europe and America are just entirely different with regards to situations like this.

And BTW, stop calling people racist when they don't agree with you. It's pathetic, although not as bad as being sexually attracted to little kids.

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A nice inconsistency there.

Go fuck yourself, tosser.

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At least I don't make threads about wanting to fukk somone that is known for playing little kids roles all their life and asking random strangers on the internet if it's alright.

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ha well I admit it wasn't my proudest hour but she is legal........just.......in some countries.:ziplip:

People take 'freedom of speach' and think that means you can do anything. However, those rights don't extend to public schools. There are tons of rules in place school isn't the place to exercise those rights.

I went to high school in an area much like Morgan Hill, Petaluma, CA. Both have a set establishment of mostly white upperclass people and then everyone else is latino. My graduating class had barely any asians or black people so I can definitely relate.

These kids were DOUCHES, 100%. They are bitter that there melting pot is becoming increasingly brown in color and they can't stomach the fact that Mexicans in the US like to celebrate Cinco De Mayo. So they wear American flags on a day of celebration and use them as tools of EXCLUSION. On the day where you celebrate your Mexican heritage, you see a gang of white kids who made a coordinated effort to say 'Don't forget you are in America.' These kids are assholes, friends of mine have carried the same attitudes and the fact that these kids were trying to make a 'statement' for no reason.

It's funny that this happened in Morgan Hill too because it's an area that's generally split white/latino, there's only about 6 or 7 towns left in the Bay Area that are like that. It's the fact that there are a large number of Mexicans as opposed to Asians or blacks.

This is a common sense issue, these kids were making inflammatory statements meant to deepen the divide in the community and at a school. If this was a march and it was city streets, go ahead be a Dick and make people feel unwanted but this was AT SCHOOL. HTH I expected but I'm shocked people actually side with these douchebags.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

It's either OK to wear or it isn't. End of.

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I don't know this is one of the few times where I might actually side with political correctness.


The school just behaved appropriately. Look at the shitstorm that was cooked up in the UK a few months back when the Muslims wanted a peaceful march through Wooten Basset, which just happened to be the town famous for honouring dead UK soldiers killed in Afghanistan.

There were so many protests that they actually rushed a new law in to outlaw this groups freedom of speech in order to protect against a riot they said.

What's the difference here exactly?

They obviously don't want to risk fighting at school so they sent them home.

I seem to remember all of you being opposed to the Muslim march so why the change of heart here?

The flag wearing brigade sound like a bunch of incendiary minded twats to me.

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I agree.... As soon as I read it, the first thing I thought is, why are these kids wearing the shirts that day? I bet the other 364 days of the year they didn't bother, but because it was "Mexican" day and a day for them to be proud of themselves, they wore the US t-shirts to kind of get attention, and also kind of show a seperateness to the Mexican's.....

I remember when we had a huge group of Japanese exchange students come to our school, and on their second day I wore a t-shirt which has a picture taken during Vietnam of a japanese lady with a machine gun pressed to her head...
It was applauded by all my friends, but I was quickly asked to remove it or I would be sent home...
Which is what I expected and was the right thing to do.... I was wearing it to be a little turd,,, and I bet if you go to the root of why those kids wore their USA flag shirts on the Mexican day, it was to equally be turds....


Going to far would be not allowing US flags to be raised on Flagpoles that day, or existing flags be taken down for the day.... But 2 kids turning up at school trying to play the "country" card against all the Mexicans on their day, then they should definitely be sent home if they won't remove the shirts..


(( this was the shirt I wore to school... Clearly I was asking for trouble ))

http://www.cmdistro.com/images/xlarge/15364.jpg

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Originally Posted by amat

People take 'freedom of speach' and think that means you can do anything. However, those rights don't extend to public schools. There are tons of rules in place school isn't the place to exercise those rights.

I went to high school in an area much like Morgan Hill, Petaluma, CA. Both have a set establishment of mostly white upperclass people and then everyone else is latino. My graduating class had barely any asians or black people so I can definitely relate.

These kids were DOUCHES, 100%. They are bitter that there melting pot is becoming increasingly brown in color and they can't stomach the fact that Mexicans in the US like to celebrate Cinco De Mayo. So they wear American flags on a day of celebration and use them as tools of EXCLUSION. On the day where you celebrate your Mexican heritage, you see a gang of white kids who made a coordinated effort to say 'Don't forget you are in America.' These kids are assholes, friends of mine have carried the same attitudes and the fact that these kids were trying to make a 'statement' for no reason.

It's funny that this happened in Morgan Hill too because it's an area that's generally split white/latino, there's only about 6 or 7 towns left in the Bay Area that are like that. It's the fact that there are a large number of Mexicans as opposed to Asians or blacks.

This is a common sense issue, these kids were making inflammatory statements meant to deepen the divide in the community and at a school. If this was a march and it was city streets, go ahead be a Dick and make people feel unwanted but this was AT SCHOOL. HTH I expected but I'm shocked people actually side with these douchebags.

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Not often we agree but that was a great post. It's so petty as well to test your freedom of speech on such a trivial issue. I mean how many white Americans are being marginalised because Mexcians have one national day of celebration a year?

I hear that the families are of the 'victims' are planning to sue the school as well for the trauma of being told to go change or go home :(

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by amat

People take 'freedom of speach' and think that means you can do anything. However, those rights don't extend to public schools. There are tons of rules in place school isn't the place to exercise those rights.

I went to high school in an area much like Morgan Hill, Petaluma, CA. Both have a set establishment of mostly white upperclass people and then everyone else is latino. My graduating class had barely any asians or black people so I can definitely relate.

These kids were DOUCHES, 100%. They are bitter that there melting pot is becoming increasingly brown in color and they can't stomach the fact that Mexicans in the US like to celebrate Cinco De Mayo. So they wear American flags on a day of celebration and use them as tools of EXCLUSION. On the day where you celebrate your Mexican heritage, you see a gang of white kids who made a coordinated effort to say 'Don't forget you are in America.' These kids are assholes, friends of mine have carried the same attitudes and the fact that these kids were trying to make a 'statement' for no reason.

It's funny that this happened in Morgan Hill too because it's an area that's generally split white/latino, there's only about 6 or 7 towns left in the Bay Area that are like that. It's the fact that there are a large number of Mexicans as opposed to Asians or blacks.

This is a common sense issue, these kids were making inflammatory statements meant to deepen the divide in the community and at a school. If this was a march and it was city streets, go ahead be a Dick and make people feel unwanted but this was AT SCHOOL. HTH I expected but I'm shocked people actually side with these douchebags.

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Not often we agree but that was a great post. It's so petty as well to test your freedom of speech on such a trivial issue. I mean how many white Americans are being marginalised because Mexcians have one national day of celebration a year?

I hear that the families are of the 'victims' are planning to sue the school as well for the trauma of being told to go change or go home :(

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Yep both of you are right on the money.. Exactly what I thought when reading this story...

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

Its a fundementalist march held on the very same day and in the very same place that dead soliders are being carried through the streets. If that isnt a hate march i dont know what is.

This is the equivelant of myself not being allowed to wear my england top on the day eid or whatever the hell they celebrate.

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It's the same principle here. On the very same day, and the very same place that the Mexican students are celebrating their national day a group of Americans turn up parading their own flag.

How can you not see that this could be an incitement to violence also?

It's not the principles job to allow his students to actively demonstrate their right to freedom of speech, it's his job to prevent the students from stabbing each other.

Given the levels of violence in American schools they clearly didn't want to take any chances in an American vs Mexican brawl taking place.

And all the principle did was tell them to either take the tshirts off or go home for the afternoon. There was no punishments or suspension. He just wanted to keep the peace, and these whiny cunts and their parents kick off just demonstrating the fact that they only wore them to antagonise in the first place.

Sorry, but they are just a bunch of racist knobheads imo.

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Observe people. This is how you play the race card. BTW 1 of the kids wanting to wear the American flags and colors is half Mexican.

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That makes him an even bigger idiot then.

I love how when something can seen as being potentially racist, somebody jumps in to point out such a minor detail that obviously excludes them from being racist.

It's up there with 'I'm not racist, i've got a black friend', and 'I'm not racist, i don't care if they're yellow, blue, purple, orange or black....they shouldn't be here'

The kids might have legally been within their rights to do what they did, but anybody who isn't a twat can see that they did it to provoke a reaction. If you can't see this, then i can only guess you have very similar issues to the kids in question. ;)

You have to question the mindset of the kids wanting to wear the flag on THIS day of all days.

I hate political correctness but I actually agree with it here. Those kids were up to no good.

Actually, I disagree with the kids being kicked out from school. Sure maybe it was provocation, which is not correct, however, it wasn't like if they did burn a Mexican flag or something, they were wearing the flag of their country in their country! In Canada for those who might not know it, we have 2 national holiday, June 24 and July 1st. July 24 is the national day for French part of Canada, la "St-Jean Baptiste", VERY popular here and I would even say by far far more than July first, you can't even compare it. How often do you think we've seen peoples in Montreal walking with Canadian flags when the whole rest of the province is walking with our blue and white on it only to provoke and ruin things? How many English native are doing so in the countryside where 95% of the kids speak french only to provoke things? It happens often. IT is not especially nice but it is the flag of our country as much as some might dislike it and till the opposite is proven, Quebec isn't independent yet from Canada. It is perhaps unnecessary provocation but you cannot throw a kid from school for that and I think that the same example is also valid for the Cinco de Mayo thing.

I'd love to research Canadian History because I know nothing about this country except it has some breathtaking scenery and that it's a bit like the USA only less violent and possibly a bit more articulated ???

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Actually, I disagree with the kids being kicked out from school. Sure maybe it was provocation, which is not correct, however, it wasn't like if they did burn a Mexican flag or something, they were wearing the flag of their country in their country! In Canada for those who might not know it, we have 2 national holiday, June 24 and July 1st. July 24 is the national day for French part of Canada, la "St-Jean Baptiste", VERY popular here and I would even say by far far more than July first, you can't even compare it. How often do you think we've seen peoples in Montreal walking with Canadian flags when the whole rest of the province is walking with our blue and white on it only to provoke and ruin things? How many English native are doing so in the countryside where 95% of the kids speak french only to provoke things? It happens often. IT is not especially nice but it is the flag of our country as much as some might dislike it and till the opposite is proven, Quebec isn't independent yet from Canada. It is perhaps unnecessary provocation but you cannot throw a kid from school for that and I think that the same example is also valid for the Cinco de Mayo thing.

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The principle's role isn't to stand up for freedom of speech or do what is politically correct. His job is simply to preserve order and good feeling amongst students at school.

A school is no test bed for legal matters. He just wanted to make sure some idiots didn't ruin the day for the rest of the students.

Why are people getting so worked up about this? Nobody was suspended, nobody had their liberties taken away.

When you consider how so many thousands of people have lain down their lives to provide basic human freedoms for others, and the struggles that some have endured, it's so pathetically trivial that people would moan about this.

'Oh no I'm having MY RIGHTS to adorn myself in my national flag apparel taken away from me for the hours whilst I'm at school on one day of the year!' :rolleyes:

It's really not a big deal, and to protest it so strongly (I'm not saying you here Nameless) can't really be seen as anything other than an underlying hostility or racist sentiment.

There is a time and a place to express your freedom of speech and this wasn't it.

It's no different to someone cursing and using foul language on live tv before the watershed because it's their 'right' to use adult language.

Unless you're Chris Arreola you just don't do it because it's considered disrespectful to those watching, many of whom are young, and many of whom are whiny old pedants who might be offended.

Everyone has the right to curse, but most are happy to waive that right when it might be seen as appropriate to refrain from cursing.

If people want to say their reasons for objecting to the afternoon exclusion of these students are nothing to do with racism, then at least be honest enough to say it's also nothing to do with freedom of speech and human rights either.

I don't think Miles for example is a racist. But he is trying to argue a very petty point imo, arguing for the rights and freedoms to do something which is utterly meaningless in the big scheme of things. The right to drape the American flag around your body on Cinci de Mayo day is not really a fundamental human right imo. And clearly the reason he feels this way is becuase of some antagonism towards the way he believes ethnic minorites should behave in somebody else's country.

So there IS clearly a feeling of some hostility present towards minorites in general and that they should in his own words ' consider deportation' if they don't like being made to feel unwelcome.

And in the case of the school celebrations, the principle obviously felt that this was a day for the school to come together and celebrate unity and that such hostile, negative attitudes were not welcome so he gave them the choice of either changing into some other clothing or else taking the afternoon off.

It's really not a big deal, just like telling someone that if they don't stop swearing at the Town Hall meeting that they will be removed.

You people kill me. Nameless you admit that these people wearing the Canadian flags on the St. Jean Baptiste day are doing it just to start trouble, yet you still believe this has a place in a classroom?

People are losing sight of this being at a school.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

You have to question the mindset of the kids wanting to wear the flag on THIS day of all days.

I hate political correctness but I actually agree with it here. Those kids were up to no good.

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....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Well that was predictable.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

....have you lost your fucking mind?

Since when is it punishable to rock the stars and stripes (and in AMERICA too)? It's not like they said anything bad or acted poorly (that I know of).

If this happened to me I'd raise holy hell...I have more reason to hate on Stinko de Mayo too....the French losing that battle to the Mexicans kept the Confederates from getting war supplies to fight off the Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression

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Nothing you have said here is of direct relevance to the debate. Like I said, you HAVE to question the mindset of these boys. Without going on a rant about how much you hate the Mexicans for the way they shaped your history, tell me.... Question why do it? On this day?

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Originally Posted by ono

Well that was predictable.

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And hilarious.

Because we all know it has seriously drove him berserk.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim, Bilbo, Ono & Amat. It's obvious why they were doing it. Not to mention wearing a t-shirt with a flag on it is lame unless it's affiliated with sports. But really come on. If I turned up to the US on Independence Day with a t-shirt with Osama's face on it* (and only wore it on that day), what would you think my intentions were?

* For all the thickos whose reading comprehension is terrible, I am NOT saying I'd ever wear an Osama t-shirt, it's an analogy.

To answer Amat and Bilbo and Jaz's last argument:

1) Some peoples are coming to the st-Jean Baptiste parade with Canadian flags for various reasons, one being sometimes to show that historically, the french got their rear end kicked by the english an some do it as a gesture of protest against the idea that Quebec might split from Canada someday (which is what many french Canadian wants). Peoples have deeply the right to express their feelings and opinions, if they wage a flag they do not hurt me, if they say an insult they are idiot but I am even dumber if I fire back with violence, period.

2) These kids, if they did just wear american stuff didn't do nothing wrong if expressing that they are in the U.S and to remind the others celebrating their national holiday that they were still living in the US, to me, there is nothing deeply wrong with it, could a bit provocative but as long as they didn't act aggressively or did something hurtful to the mexican culture (burning a flag, stomping a Mexican icon etc), is walks the thin line.

3) article 19 of the human right chart stipulates about the freedom of speech (which is good everywhere normally) and they didn't trespassed any borders if they just showed pacifically their beliefs. It is also in line with every rules of the first amendment guaranteed by the US chart. These rights apply as well in a school, by the way. If they did their stuff pacifically and haven't been aggressive, even if it is not entirely ethically correct perhaps to do so it was still within the limits of decency. Their demonstration wasn't racist, it wasn't violent, it didn't stop peoples from celebrating, In these circumstances, I really do not see the problem. Wearing flags for no reason is lame, sure, but shouldn't be forbidden for such kind of events.

4) to Jaz, the Ben Laden argument is not very good in my opinion because there is a difference between wearing the flag from the country you're in and displaying a mass murderer who threats to annihilate every american citizens using any means available. This is just not the same kind of symbol neither provocation at all.

5) If the kids would have been aggressive, violent or destroying any kind of mexican icons, that would be all another kind of story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

I'd love to research Canadian History because I know nothing about this country except it has some breathtaking scenery and that it's a bit like the USA only less violent and possibly a bit more articulated ???

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I don't know about articulation but it is definitely less violent, we have nothing that comes close to the Bronx, the hot spots of L.A or Detroit. We have our load of things not to be proud of though, starting by how the natives file has been dealt with how we're dealing our drinkable water sources but there is definitely a lot of places that are worth to be seen, especially for the nature lovers.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim, Bilbo, Ono & Amat. It's obvious why they were doing it. Not to mention wearing a t-shirt with a flag on it is lame unless it's affiliated with sports. But really come on. If I turned up to the US on Independence Day with a t-shirt with Osama's face on it* (and only wore it on that day), what would you think my intentions were?

* For all the thickos whose reading comprehension is terrible, I am NOT saying I'd ever wear an Osama t-shirt, it's an analogy.

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It's getting to the point where it's best to put a disclaimer at the bottom of posts. Some people have the most excellent ability to completely misread the post and jump to stupid conclusions.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

And hilarious.

Because we all know it has seriously drove him berserk.

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And us laughing will make him even angrier.


LOL

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Originally Posted by Nameless

I don't know about articulation but it is definitely less violent, we have nothing that comes close to the Bronx, the hot spots of L.A or Detroit. We have our load of things not to be proud of though, starting by how the natives file has been dealt with how we're dealing our drinkable water sources but there is definitely a lot of places that are worth to be seen, especially for the nature lovers.

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Oh okay. I mean I'm just interested in the whole English/ French co-existence... I want to find it remarkable but I wasn't aware that there was any tension there (like i say, i know nothing abut Canada!)

Yeah i'm just keen to look into the history of your country. How it all came to be etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Nothing you have said here is of direct relevance to the debate. Like I said, you HAVE to question the mindset of these boys. Without going on a rant about how much you hate the Mexicans for the way they shaped your history, tell me.... Question why do it? On this day?

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They were in The United States of America .....is that not a good enough reason?


The idea of kicking these students out of school for wearing American flag t-shirts is 100% against everything The United States is about because the boys wearing the t-shirts did not prevent the people from celebrating Cinco de Mayo and THAT my friend is the bottom line....free speech isn't always nice and pleasant and fun, but sometimes a t-shirt is just a t-shirt and in this case an American from ANY ethnic group should be outraged that this happened.

I also find it highly offensive that the illegal immigrants wave Mexican flags when they protest immigration policy....that's just fucking idiotic, but I don't think just because they wave the Mexican flag that they should be thrown out of the country just on account of the flag thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Oh okay. I mean I'm just interested in the whole English/ French co-existence... I want to find it remarkable but I wasn't aware that there was any tension there (like i say, i know nothing abut Canada!)

Yeah i'm just keen to look into the history of your country. How it all came to be etc...

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There is some tensions, sometimes when drunktards from both "clan" meet there are fighting but really, it is more of a big rivalry and because some laws are unfair for the French natives, it is far from being close to the unthinkable like the ethnic war going on in Iraq or the Kurdish case in Turkey. In a nutshell: French discovered Canada first, English came then, both used some native tribes to help their side, they slammed each others on the head, France did stop to help its colonies, not England, French lost and at the time, English quite tried to assimilate them by force.
The biggest modern problem is that Quebec gives more to the Country proportionally than any other provinces, which angers French Canadians, our current Nuts Prime Minister corrected partly the problem by re-giving a part of it (which the other Federal Gov always denied us) and some things are just weighted with 2 measures: For example, legally speaking, the Country has officially recognized both languages, French and English as our official ones. Normally, we are supposed to be able to receive health cares and any primal services in both languages. This is only true in Quebec and in a very few town in the North of Ontario. Institutions in Quebec receive the stick every time somebody is not answered in a clean cut English if they make a complaint but in the rest of Canada, it is almost impossible to have essential services in French, even in Toronto you can absolutely forget it but the gov doesn't do nothing about it. Same for the Army, before the official army manual was in both languages, now they did cut the french version to save money and it's only in English. When every official stuff are supposed to be both released in french and English, it's quite a slap. Air Carrier Air Canada has been found guilty many times of not having at least one member of the crew speaking french on board, every time they babble about giving formations to their employees so it would not happen again but the problem doesn't change, really.

There is a couple of other situations like that and that's mostly where the modern conflicts and tension emerges, that coupled with the fact that in Montreal, there is a very wealthy English community living on West Island and some of them never learned french and said they didn't have to because the country was foremost English and that French wasn't important and that there is no reasons why they should speak it. One of them Galganov even wrote a book called "Bastards" where basically, he's spitting hatred against French Canadians... Mix it all together and you have a bit of electricity when it comes to politics discussions. However, I would say that for the huge majority on both side, we're living very well together, really. Personally I am not for the separation of Quebec from the rest of Canada, I just think that some things should be made fairer for the french natives (like for the proportion of money given and the bilingual stuff) and that we should call these rivalry a day... except when the Montreal Canadians are playing the Leafs, of course ;) If you cut the bunch of nutters on both side and do not mix politics when it's election time or national holidays, it's not that bad at all really, everywhere I went and met some Canadians on vacations it has always been a good time, just don't mix the nutters who think that french Canadians are extreme potential terrorists and the others that see english speakers as potential enemies and it's all ok.

p.s: Sometihng interesting: Quebec provincial rules are far different from the rest of those in the Country as they are a mix of the Napoleon Code and the English Common law, which is unique to the Province.