to be fair Top Rank does the same shit all the time on their self broadcasted PPV fights, like Clottey/Pacquiao, although UFC does so in fights with no marquee name fighters involvedQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
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to be fair Top Rank does the same shit all the time on their self broadcasted PPV fights, like Clottey/Pacquiao, although UFC does so in fights with no marquee name fighters involvedQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I really hope Toney takes his pay check, puts it in the bank and seriously starts to consider giving this fighting career a rest. He is staining his name with constant drug scandals, the ever increasing flab and growing irrelevance. I've always been a huge Toney fan, but I just can't take him seriously anymore. I was against this fight from the start and seeing that was really just pathetic. There was no reason to be doing MMA beyond the paycheck motive.
Come on Toney give it a rest. Enoughs enough. :rolleyes:
I have a feeling Roy Jones will attempt MMA also, rumors are that he's broke and looking for a paycheck and that's why he keeps on fighting. Let's say Dana White offers him 1 million to fight George St. Pierre and he will probably take the offer and enter the octagon with a similar result happening tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
We bought it at our house tonight. And having watched UFC since UFC 1, my Dad and I hoped against hope that somehow James Toney could get in a good shot or two and KO Randy before Randy took him down.
But alas it played out just as most everyone expected it to, Couture shot in low and took down Toney and choked him out.
It was pathetic on Toney's part and a bit hard to watch him tap.
I wish he woulda just let himself be choked out, passin out wasn't gonna hurt him like an arm bar would.
Where did you get the rumor saying that he was broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI have a feeling Roy Jones will attempt MMA also, rumors are that he's broke and looking for a paycheck and that's why he keeps on fighting. Let's say Dana White offers him 1 million to fight George St. Pierre and he will probably take the offer and enter the octagon with a similar result happening tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
How did anyone think this would be competitive is beyond me. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessWhere did you get the rumor saying that he was broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI have a feeling Roy Jones will attempt MMA also, rumors are that he's broke and looking for a paycheck and that's why he keeps on fighting. Let's say Dana White offers him 1 million to fight George St. Pierre and he will probably take the offer and enter the octagon with a similar result happening tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Really all you have to do is kick a boxers front knee at that range for 15 minutes to get a boring win or get him to the ground eventually if you want to be technical and not go for it.
Know what would be more interesting: someone like Sam Soliman going in there. with a strong background of kickboxing and also boxing that would even things up a bit more.
Now that it's over......
1. Toney campaigned for this. Dana White and ufc didn't try to set him up. He actually asked for Lesnar who would have really demolished him.
2. Boxing ability is only good for about 25% of this sport.
3. Any top boxer would dominate a top mma athlete inside of 3 rounds, in a boxing match.
I'm still annoyed, I mean Toney is an annoying buggerhimself, but few could have wanted to see him lose like that. Sat on and and humped for a good 3 minutes! All that writhing and loose flesh hanging all over the place. It was one of the most vulgar things I have ever seen and reminded me completely why I so dislike MMA.
What a horrid sport and shame on Toney for ever going through with this freak show when he could have instead maybe fought another tune up and then gone in there with someone like David Haye. Such a waste of time. 9 months training for that grunt of a sport?
I've been trying to relax by reading a book, but I keep getting horrid flashbacks to that 'fight'. What kind of man likes to watch that kind of thing anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Toney has lost the plot mate he has a big ego and obviously wont listen to anyone but he needs to hang them up his speech is worrying they even used subtitles on the ufc promo his fight against Fres Oquendo last year showed how washed up he was no top ten fighter should touch him Haye would kill him, the guy has been a legend but time for him to retire from all forms of fighting imo.
I agree that he should retire, but he could have retired with a little more dignity in the sport that he actually knows. What happened today was predictable, but still humiliating. The Oquendo fight was there for all to see as was Peter 2. No doubt Toney was on the slide, but you wouldn't ever see him sprawled like a whale with a big muscle mary trying to have intercourse on top of him. Ooh, it gives me the shivers! :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Toney has lost the plot mate he has a big ego and obviously wont listen to anyone but he needs to hang them up his speech is worrying they even used subtitles on the ufc promo his fight against Fres Oquendo last year showed how washed up he was no top ten fighter should touch him Haye would kill him, the guy has been a legend but time for him to retire from all forms of fighting imo.
Toney lives on Planet Toney these days and he seems quite intent on making a huge tit of himself. A damn shame because skill wise he is one of the greats.
Toney - Dignity? Is that a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI agree that he should retire, but he could have retired with a little more dignity in the sport that he actually knows. What happened today was predictable, but still humiliating. The Oquendo fight was there for all to see as was Peter 2. No doubt Toney was on the slide, but you wouldn't ever see him sprawled like a whale with a big muscle mary trying to have intercourse on top of him. Ooh, it gives me the shivers! :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Toney has lost the plot mate he has a big ego and obviously wont listen to anyone but he needs to hang them up his speech is worrying they even used subtitles on the ufc promo his fight against Fres Oquendo last year showed how washed up he was no top ten fighter should touch him Haye would kill him, the guy has been a legend but time for him to retire from all forms of fighting imo.
Toney lives on Planet Toney these days and he seems quite intent on making a huge tit of himself. A damn shame because skill wise he is one of the greats.
He got a reported $750,000 for this fight. He's worth two bob in boxing. It's just about the money.. like all fights ;)
WTF is ufc/mma`s obsession with boxing?
As said a million times the 2 sports are entirely different to eachother. Pretty sure if i stuck a prime muhammad ali onto a football field his performance would be distinctly average.
I dont mind UFC/MMA fans personally, but they need to stop with all this which is the better sport shit. So there top boy beat up a washed up blubb of a mess who was being destroyed by any half decent boxer, big deal
Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Couture is no where near the top boy but I agree stupid fight and even more stupid was the people who gave Toney a chance.
Wish I never stayed up for it. It was shameful. It wasnt even a clean takedown but Toney is so off blance now he is that fat, that he couldnt stay on his feet. In a way he deserves it for talking so arrogantly.
Didnt like the chants of UFC or how smug Rogan was. Strange that they didnt once reference that a washed up Ray Mercer Knocked out heavyweight champ Tim Sylvia with 1 punch in MMA a couple years back.
Toney hasnt affected his boxing career with this farce but it has made him somewhat of a joke figure in the public eye. He said he wants to stay in MMA but he will just be a steeping stone for those guys. If cant even find teh motivation to get in shape he was never going to take MMA seriously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmyVd...layer_embedded
Here it is for anyone who hasnt seen it.
This was horrible but quite frankly I knew it would be. This fight never peaked my interest because it was nothing more than a thinly veiled hype job. Toney had a punchers chance......that's all. This was promotion at its lowest because there were actually "reports" that Toney was submitting people in practice and that he was in great shape. Even if Toney had won this fight by catching Couture with a punch my intelligence would've still been insulted.
It was sad to watch tbh.
The two sports are so different, who evers terms they fight on has a massive edge.
It's like putting Messi in a tennis match against Nadal.
I'd like to see a rematch under boxing rules and then see.
If UFC wants to prove a point, they need to send someone into a boxing ring and see what happens
No doubts he did it for the money, but his career didn't need to culminate in this farce. What a joke. Still a million dollars for 3 minutes laying on his back isn't to be sniffed at, I guess. The man needs to be kept away from BK though or it will be gone within a matter of months and he will be running his mouth again. :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterToney - Dignity? Is that a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI agree that he should retire, but he could have retired with a little more dignity in the sport that he actually knows. What happened today was predictable, but still humiliating. The Oquendo fight was there for all to see as was Peter 2. No doubt Toney was on the slide, but you wouldn't ever see him sprawled like a whale with a big muscle mary trying to have intercourse on top of him. Ooh, it gives me the shivers! :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Toney has lost the plot mate he has a big ego and obviously wont listen to anyone but he needs to hang them up his speech is worrying they even used subtitles on the ufc promo his fight against Fres Oquendo last year showed how washed up he was no top ten fighter should touch him Haye would kill him, the guy has been a legend but time for him to retire from all forms of fighting imo.
Toney lives on Planet Toney these days and he seems quite intent on making a huge tit of himself. A damn shame because skill wise he is one of the greats.
He got a reported $750,000 for this fight. He's worth two bob in boxing. It's just about the money.. like all fights ;)
MMA is obviously not my thing and I don't think I will watch it again, but Randy Couture seems like a decent enough chap. I was watching this post fight interview and he came across well and was honest enough about what would happen if he faced Toney in the boxing ring. Fair play to him on doing what he had to do. I think it's an ugly and aesthetically unpleasing type of sport, but thems the rules and he applied them as he should. It's like people who criticize Floyd for not going to war, he is only applying his trade in the best way that he knows how. Couture would have been silly to stand up and trade with Toney and bigger fool Toney for trying to get into something that he just doesn't know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuZZA2QljPs&feature=player_embedded
I had Toney winning on my scorecard and i think we can all agree it was a premature stoppage.
Oh god i hope this is the end of all this mma vs boxing crap. This was just another meaningless win for mma for them to brag about and another silly thing about boxing people can tease us about. They sent a in shape 50 year old man in there to beat up on some mumblling fat old guy and bam !!! What a surprise. I heard after the fight james toney said he could coach USC to and no 1 rating in one year......is anyone going to belive, follow, and watch that junk either lol ha ha.
and technically boxing still has a one up hahaha cause Mercer still decimated the UFC's former 2 time HW champ Tim Sylvia in like 10 seconds lol something Randy Couture wasn't able to do, when has a "world class" MMA fighter fought a still semi decent world class boxer under boxing rules?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
No I agree, I meant where did he hear the rumors that Roy Jones was running out of green bills and was pondering an UFC to get another big check.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by NamelessWhere did you get the rumor saying that he was broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI have a feeling Roy Jones will attempt MMA also, rumors are that he's broke and looking for a paycheck and that's why he keeps on fighting. Let's say Dana White offers him 1 million to fight George St. Pierre and he will probably take the offer and enter the octagon with a similar result happening tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Really all you have to do is kick a boxers front knee at that range for 15 minutes to get a boring win or get him to the ground eventually if you want to be technical and not go for it.
Know what would be more interesting: someone like Sam Soliman going in there. with a strong background of kickboxing and also boxing that would even things up a bit more.
I couldn't really understand what Toney was saying in his post-fight interview with Joe Rogan, but am I right in saying that when Rogan asked - 'James, will you work on your ground game and come back to MMA again in the future?'
Toney replied - 'Nothing wrong with my ground game, he just caught me!' :-\
But all of this MMA versus boxing shoit is annoying. Why can't people just respect each sport for the dedicated and hugely brave athletes that take part in both. Fact is, I'd rather fight a boxer in an MMA match and an MMA fighter in a boxing match! Both dominate their respective disciplines. ;)
Probably because Kimbo Slice choked out Mercer in about 90 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Search Youtube "Kimbo Slice Ray Mercer".
Toney bugged Dana White for about a year for a fight. Don't make it seem like this was something dreamed up by the UFC. Toney asked for the fight.
If there's any question about boxers doing MMA again:
White: "We won't be doing any more boxing" after Toney's UFC 118 loss"
After James Toney (0-1 MMA, 0-1 UFC) was forced to tap out (or wave out, if you choose to be technical) in the first round of his UFC 118 contest with Randy Couture on Saturday night at Boston's TD Garden, White said he's done with boxers making their way to the organization – no matter who it is.
Search mmajunkie.com for details.
Can everyone please quit crying about how MMA took advantage of a poor out of shape over the hill boxer......:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek ::eek:
Toney asked for this, he is the one who hyped boxing vs mma. Couture barely even acknowledged it was an issue.
I am starting to hate boxing fans after hearing all the crying. It was a fight and Toney lost.
Who gives a shit about what would happen any other sport. A fight is a fight, and one guy won and the other guy lost and it's over.
Toney gets no pity party for the unwise and misinformed situation he put himself in. As much of a fan as I am of his he as an athlete is a memory. He has himself to blame for what gloves he laced up and even the biggest boxing fan was saying he was going to lose and was reduced to a punchers chance last night in a circus event.
Think the backlash is more so aimed at the thumping of the chest by some,fans in attendance,maybe a promoter with a Napoleon complex, who actually think this somehow represented a meaningful conquest of a potent fighter and whenever he was labeled "heavyweight Champion" it was like running fingers on a chalk board. False advertisement. Lets face it sometimes the lines are drawn as far as mma vs Boxing and the fans allegiances,preferences are at the core. Boxing as any major long lived sport is a brotherhood. Sucks watching one of your very best though washed up,get taken out. Props to Couture for keeping it in perspective and honest as to his own chances in the squared circle and calling Toney on just thinking he could jump into it and do well. He did exactly what he a professional does and frankly he deserved better from his promotion in terms of relevant mma competition. As much as Toney half assed and wasted his chances lately in the sport he actually knows something about....boxing....by showing up in terrible shape,ill prepared and out of depth...lastnight he equally 'insulted' mma competitors who have dedicated all to their sport by doing the very same. As such Dana White has responsibility for how his company is perceived and the product he puts out...signs the checks for and collects fans dollars at the doors. Make no mistake he was not doing Toney a favor out of heart,he's a cutting business man and knows the riffs and comparisons between sports are rampant. I'm not even sure but was this billed as the 'main event' ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
:vd:
Fuck me, Toney never even got to throw a single punch. No wonder those MMA guys are creaming their pants.
$750,000 for spending three minutes getting tripped over, tapped on the head a few times then made uncomfortable. Easiest dough he's ever made. Lucky cunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Ok, I agree with everything you said except that Dana White is a promoter with napolean complex.
James stalked him and basically bullied him into getting signed by UFC. James bullies opponents, newscasters, promoters, etc. He's basically a thug that can actually back up his tough talk everywhere but MMA. How many times have you seen James get physical during an interview, taking the mike by force etc. He's thrown glasses at people during press conferences, thrown punches during staredowns. He's a thug.
Dana gave in to a year long campaign by James who showed up at every event and heckled Dana to give him a shot. James did it for the money, probably actually thought he was gonna win, and Dana allowed it.
The boxing vs mma has been promoted by boxing not mma. Boxing feels threatened by the new kid on the block, not the new kid talking trash. I've seen it on this site for years now.
To me fighting is fighting. I like watching both. As far as an organization. UFC is light years ahead of boxing. Boxing is like a collection of pimps and street hookers and UFC is like going to the bunny ranch. Boxing will never be organized and UFC will continue to grow. It's not about what sport is better, cause that's not defineable. But it is about who's organized and consistent. UFC is like the NFL or NBA. Boxing isn't and never will be. As far as the fight. James Toney commands alot of name recoginition and this fight was no bigger a farce than BHOP vs RJJr 2 20 years too late. It got attention, it was one sided, and after watching it you knew it shouldn't have happened, and you kinda knew before, but maybe it would be great because fighting is unpredictable.
Dont but the Toney intimidates for a minute,just cant. Big bad paunchy Toney waddling up to White and company, all inaudible and spitting while he talks,laying down terms and twisting arms, Nah. He puts his persona out there and commands interviews but has equally had it fall flat,especially when its clear he cant even compete at the top in his chosen field the last few years. White deals with much more in depth competitors in his own house,Ufc and they know the business that is mma. Toney didn't bully a thing without White seeing an opportunity to make bank on a high profile 'known' big mouth personality...and one billed as a boxing 'heavyweight champion'.
I'm not one to disparage mma as a sport but to talk on UFC as if its without flaws and potential pitfalls amongst the ranks is waaaay to premature. White came in and gave it uniformity and collected companies and competition to give it one huge recognizable face. Hey....hats off. Boxing is its own worse enemy in spots no doubt and at times its like being in a one sided mentally abusive relationship with a over bearing female. But It is way to soon to lump it with a NFL or NBA who had both morphed over decades to become what we know today. UFC will grow and in doing so will conjure other franchises and opportunity's for its athletes...cant rule from the mount forever. Trust me it has plenty of time to see inconsistency and suffer the same black eyes and self inflicted wounds boxing has. How long has UFC existed...7,8 years ? Gotta add the difference with Toney/Couture and Hopkins/Jones 2...........B hop and Jones had a few boxing matches under the belt.
Agreed. The NFL and NBA has been around for decades and to lump UFC into that category is way too premature and even they have their own lockouts and work stoppages over money. In fact the NBA and NFL are on a colliision course to have a lockout in 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Let's see in 10 to 15 years from now when the big name fighters starts complaining about making a few hundred grand while Dana continually rakes in tens of millions on their blood if they are going to complain and rebel. It's not at that stage yet I presume, but you have to believe that when guys are seeing that Dana is making bank while the fighters are making chump change I don't think they're going to take it anymore. MMA and the UFC is still a business and like all other types of businesses, money is still a major factor. Best believe that.
...yeah generalbulldog, IMO the UFC is on easy street right now but the newer guys aren't going to want to get chump change (when compared to even average boxers...hell Alexander Povetkin was looking at making $2.5 million vs Wladimir) in their big time fights...they will eventually go Union (which Boxing not having 1 central Association cannot do but it's not like they need to because THEY make the contracts and sign them).
Coouture vs Toney to me was only going to be "exciting" or "special" if #1 Toney submitted Randy #2 If Randy KO'd Toney or #3 if the fight was close and went the distance.
I know that not all MMA fans are like this, but I think they really have an inferiority complex. Yes there are a ton of ignorant boxing fans but there are people who like MMA and especially UFC right now STRICTLY because "it's the hot new thing"....Spike TV has made it all edgy, Energy Drinks and everything "X-treme" sponsors it, and obviously Dana White (a guy who basically got the doors shut on him in the boxing World) has shown he can market to middle class angry white kids ages 16-30 and perhaps kind of like boxing (and this is important) the fighters can make the sport seem #1 Very Easy and #2 Devoid of actual skill......and when I say "Devoid of actual skill" I mean fighters can make it SEEM like they just go out there and swing wild punches or just rely 100% on brute strength or quickness...it's just the way the minds of those middle class angry white kids work, look at Charlie Zelenoff...sure he's the extreme case of this type of mentality but there are plenty of cats out there just like him that think they can just up and hop in a ring (or octogon) and be somebody. All pro athletes train these days (some a lot more than others) and the guys who are really dedicated to honing their craft can make their sport seem effortless, look at what Michael Jordan did...hell he pretty much damn near ruined basketball because everyone was trying to be "Like Mike" and make all the big time fancy highlite reel plays but they didn't know how hard he worked on the basics to make himself that great...look at Roy Jones Jr. and Ali and Mike Tyson....loads of people say those guys (more so than fighters like Rocky or Joe Frazier) were "Naturally Gifted" and I think that discredits the hard work they put in to becoming as great as they were.
Comparing Boxing to MMA is like comparing Tennis to Badminton....yes they are similar but there are gigantic differences at the same time.
As for the Kimbo-Ray Mercer MMA fight....let's see them box, I wonder how fast Kimbo would have him out of there then.
Well said Lyle. Honestly as we've discussed I can't stand most of the MMA fans that wear "Tapout" and drive Daddy's truck or car and think they are tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I like MMA and I'm an MMA fan myself, but I'm a boxing fan first.
Last night was a pathetic display by Toney. A non effort. Didn't even try for a KO punch when Randy shot in. Just fell over like a fat hippo.
Hell I say lets have Mercer and Kimbo have a rematch now and see who wins.
Gurantee Mercer would kill him now after training in MMA.
My opinion is MMA fighters are better pure fighters....If you were in a bar room brawl no holds barred, an MMA fighter is going to win most of the time. That being said I prefer to watch boxing.
Oh I agree 100% those Tapout bastards irritate the piss out of me....those guys are "those mma fans" the guys that talk tons of shit, know fuck all about any type of fighting at all.....they are an embarassment to human beings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I am not an "MMA fan" but I can tolerate it better these days...I usually just critique the striking abilities of those guys. Some throw pretty well, they are usually the guys that don't defend against strikes all that great or avoid them, and so you can see where a boxer in theory could wipe the floor with them, but hell just adding in wrestling and kickboxing tactics to boxing would screw the boxer's gameplan up.
The main thing I hate about MMA is the outspoken ignorant fanbase, yes boxing has our fair share of shitheads, but MMA has a "culture" now, boxing doesn't have 1 culture, it hasn't been marketed as a stereotype and MMA has and it's that stereotype that I just cannot and will not put up with.
I didn't see the fight, I didn't plan to watch the fight, I figured JT had the wrong style for MMA and Randy was definently the wrong match for him...I think a Toney-Rampage Jackson or Shane Carwin fight would have been more interesting, but even then James Toney has had over 80 pro fights, he's washed up, he's old, he's finished and that was well before this MMA charade. Sure some little keyboard warriors for MMA will try and say something like this fight is proof that boxers can't cut it in MMA and that MMA is a better sport but as rational fans of SPORT (in general) will see is that in "Mixed Martial Arts" there are several ways to win and several ways to lose and if you train specifically in 1 area following all their rules and regulations you will be at a disadvantage in MMA because you have to "un-learn" habits that are specifically taught in other martial arts...All martial arts have their pros and cons...James Toney just demostrated the weakness of boxing vs wrestling, but on the other hand Ray Mercer demostrated the strength of boxing vs whatever the hell Tim Sylvia does/did. This whole MMA vs Boxing is not a zero sum game, there is not a clear winner or a clear loser as both sports are going nowhere, there will ALWAYS be boxing and there will always be other forms of martial art.
...I'll take my chances throwing my fists, but to each their ownQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
This boxer did pretty well defending himself against 4-5 guys attacking him.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...I'll take my chances throwing my fists, but to each their ownQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWEroXIdGEg
:cool: