James Toney v Randy Couture

[Gandalf]

MMA is obviously not my thing and I don't think I will watch it again, but Randy Couture seems like a decent enough chap. I was watching this post fight interview and he came across well and was honest enough about what would happen if he faced Toney in the boxing ring. Fair play to him on doing what he had to do. I think it's an ugly and aesthetically unpleasing type of sport, but thems the rules and he applied them as he should. It's like people who criticize Floyd for not going to war, he is only applying his trade in the best way that he knows how. Couture would have been silly to stand up and trade with Toney and bigger fool Toney for trying to get into something that he just doesn't know.

[Hornfinger]

I had Toney winning on my scorecard and i think we can all agree it was a premature stoppage.

[Mar]

Oh god i hope this is the end of all this mma vs boxing crap. This was just another meaningless win for mma for them to brag about and another silly thing about boxing people can tease us about. They sent a in shape 50 year old man in there to beat up on some mumblling fat old guy and bam !!! What a surprise. I heard after the fight james toney said he could coach USC to and no 1 rating in one year......is anyone going to belive, follow, and watch that junk either lol ha ha.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Oh god i hope this is the end of all this mma vs boxing crap. This was just another meaningless win for mma for them to brag about and another silly thing about boxing people can tease us about. They sent a in shape 50 year old man in there to beat up on some mumblling fat old guy and bam !!! What a surprise. I heard after the fight james toney said he could coach USC to and no 1 rating in one year......is anyone going to belive, follow, and watch that junk either lol ha ha.

and technically boxing still has a one up hahaha cause Mercer still decimated the UFC's former 2 time HW champ Tim Sylvia in like 10 seconds lol something Randy Couture wasn't able to do, when has a "world class" MMA fighter fought a still semi decent world class boxer under boxing rules?

[Nameless]

I really hope Toney takes his pay check, puts it in the bank and seriously starts to consider giving this fighting career a rest. He is staining his name with constant drug scandals, the ever increasing flab and growing irrelevance. I've always been a huge Toney fan, but I just can't take him seriously anymore. I was against this fight from the start and seeing that was really just pathetic. There was no reason to be doing MMA beyond the paycheck motive.

Come on Toney give it a rest. Enoughs enough.

I have a feeling Roy Jones will attempt MMA also, rumors are that he's broke and looking for a paycheck and that's why he keeps on fighting. Let's say Dana White offers him 1 million to fight George St. Pierre and he will probably take the offer and enter the octagon with a similar result happening tonight.

Where did you get the rumor saying that he was broke?

Really all you have to do is kick a boxers front knee at that range for 15 minutes to get a boring win or get him to the ground eventually if you want to be technical and not go for it.
Know what would be more interesting: someone like Sam Soliman going in there. with a strong background of kickboxing and also boxing that would even things up a bit more.

No I agree, I meant where did he hear the rumors that Roy Jones was running out of green bills and was pondering an UFC to get another big check.

[Oggie]

I couldn't really understand what Toney was saying in his post-fight interview with Joe Rogan, but am I right in saying that when Rogan asked - 'James, will you work on your ground game and come back to MMA again in the future?'
Toney replied - 'Nothing wrong with my ground game, he just caught me!'

But all of this MMA versus boxing shoit is annoying. Why can't people just respect each sport for the dedicated and hugely brave athletes that take part in both. Fact is, I'd rather fight a boxer in an MMA match and an MMA fighter in a boxing match! Both dominate their respective disciplines.

[ralph]

Didnt like the chants of UFC or how smug Rogan was. Strange that they didnt once reference that a washed up Ray Mercer Knocked out heavyweight champ Tim Sylvia with 1 punch in MMA a couple years back.

Probably because Kimbo Slice choked out Mercer in about 90 seconds.

Search Youtube "Kimbo Slice Ray Mercer".

Toney bugged Dana White for about a year for a fight. Don't make it seem like this was something dreamed up by the UFC. Toney asked for the fight.

[ralph]

If there's any question about boxers doing MMA again:

White: "We won't be doing any more boxing" after Toney's UFC 118 loss"

After James Toney (0-1 MMA, 0-1 UFC) was forced to tap out (or wave out, if you choose to be technical) in the first round of his UFC 118 contest with Randy Couture on Saturday night at Boston's TD Garden, White said he's done with boxers making their way to the organization – no matter who it is.

Search mmajunkie.com for details.

[luvfightgame]

Can everyone please quit crying about how MMA took advantage of a poor out of shape over the hill boxer......


Toney asked for this, he is the one who hyped boxing vs mma. Couture barely even acknowledged it was an issue.

I am starting to hate boxing fans after hearing all the crying. It was a fight and Toney lost.

Who gives a shit about what would happen any other sport. A fight is a fight, and one guy won and the other guy lost and it's over.

[Spicoli]

Toney gets no pity party for the unwise and misinformed situation he put himself in. As much of a fan as I am of his he as an athlete is a memory. He has himself to blame for what gloves he laced up and even the biggest boxing fan was saying he was going to lose and was reduced to a punchers chance last night in a circus event.

Think the backlash is more so aimed at the thumping of the chest by some,fans in attendance,maybe a promoter with a Napoleon complex, who actually think this somehow represented a meaningful conquest of a potent fighter and whenever he was labeled "heavyweight Champion" it was like running fingers on a chalk board. False advertisement. Lets face it sometimes the lines are drawn as far as mma vs Boxing and the fans allegiances,preferences are at the core. Boxing as any major long lived sport is a brotherhood. Sucks watching one of your very best though washed up,get taken out. Props to Couture for keeping it in perspective and honest as to his own chances in the squared circle and calling Toney on just thinking he could jump into it and do well. He did exactly what he a professional does and frankly he deserved better from his promotion in terms of relevant mma competition. As much as Toney half assed and wasted his chances lately in the sport he actually knows something about....boxing....by showing up in terrible shape,ill prepared and out of depth...lastnight he equally 'insulted' mma competitors who have dedicated all to their sport by doing the very same. As such Dana White has responsibility for how his company is perceived and the product he puts out...signs the checks for and collects fans dollars at the doors. Make no mistake he was not doing Toney a favor out of heart,he's a cutting business man and knows the riffs and comparisons between sports are rampant. I'm not even sure but was this billed as the 'main event' ?

[Fenster]

Here it is for anyone who hasnt seen it.

Fuck me, Toney never even got to throw a single punch. No wonder those MMA guys are creaming their pants.

$750,000 for spending three minutes getting tripped over, tapped on the head a few times then made uncomfortable. Easiest dough he's ever made. Lucky cunt.

[luvfightgame]

Toney gets no pity party for the unwise and misinformed situation he put himself in. As much of a fan as I am of his he as an athlete is a memory. He has himself to blame for what gloves he laced up and even the biggest boxing fan was saying he was going to lose and was reduced to a punchers chance last night in a circus event.

Think the backlash is more so aimed at the thumping of the chest by some,fans in attendance,maybe a promoter with a Napoleon complex, who actually think this somehow represented a meaningful conquest of a potent fighter and whenever he was labeled "heavyweight Champion" it was like running fingers on a chalk board. False advertisement. Lets face it sometimes the lines are drawn as far as mma vs Boxing and the fans allegiances,preferences are at the core. Boxing as any major long lived sport is a brotherhood. Sucks watching one of your very best though washed up,get taken out. Props to Couture for keeping it in perspective and honest as to his own chances in the squared circle and calling Toney on just thinking he could jump into it and do well. He did exactly what he a professional does and frankly he deserved better from his promotion in terms of relevant mma competition. As much as Toney half assed and wasted his chances lately in the sport he actually knows something about....boxing....by showing up in terrible shape,ill prepared and out of depth...lastnight he equally 'insulted' mma competitors who have dedicated all to their sport by doing the very same. As such Dana White has responsibility for how his company is perceived and the product he puts out...signs the checks for and collects fans dollars at the doors. Make no mistake he was not doing Toney a favor out of heart,he's a cutting business man and knows the riffs and comparisons between sports are rampant. I'm not even sure but was this billed as the 'main event' ?

Ok, I agree with everything you said except that Dana White is a promoter with napolean complex.

James stalked him and basically bullied him into getting signed by UFC. James bullies opponents, newscasters, promoters, etc. He's basically a thug that can actually back up his tough talk everywhere but MMA. How many times have you seen James get physical during an interview, taking the mike by force etc. He's thrown glasses at people during press conferences, thrown punches during staredowns. He's a thug.

Dana gave in to a year long campaign by James who showed up at every event and heckled Dana to give him a shot. James did it for the money, probably actually thought he was gonna win, and Dana allowed it.

The boxing vs mma has been promoted by boxing not mma. Boxing feels threatened by the new kid on the block, not the new kid talking trash. I've seen it on this site for years now.

To me fighting is fighting. I like watching both. As far as an organization. UFC is light years ahead of boxing. Boxing is like a collection of pimps and street hookers and UFC is like going to the bunny ranch. Boxing will never be organized and UFC will continue to grow. It's not about what sport is better, cause that's not defineable. But it is about who's organized and consistent. UFC is like the NFL or NBA. Boxing isn't and never will be. As far as the fight. James Toney commands alot of name recoginition and this fight was no bigger a farce than BHOP vs RJJr 2 20 years too late. It got attention, it was one sided, and after watching it you knew it shouldn't have happened, and you kinda knew before, but maybe it would be great because fighting is unpredictable.

[Spicoli]

Dont but the Toney intimidates for a minute,just cant. Big bad paunchy Toney waddling up to White and company, all inaudible and spitting while he talks,laying down terms and twisting arms, Nah. He puts his persona out there and commands interviews but has equally had it fall flat,especially when its clear he cant even compete at the top in his chosen field the last few years. White deals with much more in depth competitors in his own house,Ufc and they know the business that is mma. Toney didn't bully a thing without White seeing an opportunity to make bank on a high profile 'known' big mouth personality...and one billed as a boxing 'heavyweight champion'.

I'm not one to disparage mma as a sport but to talk on UFC as if its without flaws and potential pitfalls amongst the ranks is waaaay to premature. White came in and gave it uniformity and collected companies and competition to give it one huge recognizable face. Hey....hats off. Boxing is its own worse enemy in spots no doubt and at times its like being in a one sided mentally abusive relationship with a over bearing female. But It is way to soon to lump it with a NFL or NBA who had both morphed over decades to become what we know today. UFC will grow and in doing so will conjure other franchises and opportunity's for its athletes...cant rule from the mount forever. Trust me it has plenty of time to see inconsistency and suffer the same black eyes and self inflicted wounds boxing has. How long has UFC existed...7,8 years ? Gotta add the difference with Toney/Couture and Hopkins/Jones 2...........B hop and Jones had a few boxing matches under the belt.

[generalbulldog]

Dont but the Toney intimidates for a minute,just cant. Big bad paunchy Toney waddling up to White and company, all inaudible and spitting while he talks,laying down terms and twisting arms, Nah. He puts his persona out there and commands interviews but has equally had it fall flat,especially when its clear he cant even compete at the top in his chosen field the last few years. White deals with much more in depth competitors in his own house,Ufc and they know the business that is mma. Toney didn't bully a thing without White seeing an opportunity to make bank on a high profile 'known' big mouth personality...and one billed as a boxing 'heavyweight champion'.

I'm not one to disparage mma as a sport but to talk on UFC as if its without flaws and potential pitfalls amongst the ranks is waaaay to premature. White came in and gave it uniformity and collected companies and competition to give it one huge recognizable face. Hey....hats off. Boxing is its own worse enemy in spots no doubt and at times its like being in a one sided mentally abusive relationship with a over bearing female. But It is way to soon to lump it with a NFL or NBA who had both morphed over decades to become what we know today. UFC will grow and in doing so will conjure other franchises and opportunity's for its athletes...cant rule from the mount forever. Trust me it has plenty of time to see inconsistency and suffer the same black eyes and self inflicted wounds boxing has. How long has UFC existed...7,8 years ? Gotta add the difference with Toney/Couture and Hopkins/Jones 2...........B hop and Jones had a few boxing matches under the belt.

Agreed. The NFL and NBA has been around for decades and to lump UFC into that category is way too premature and even they have their own lockouts and work stoppages over money. In fact the NBA and NFL are on a colliision course to have a lockout in 2011.

Let's see in 10 to 15 years from now when the big name fighters starts complaining about making a few hundred grand while Dana continually rakes in tens of millions on their blood if they are going to complain and rebel. It's not at that stage yet I presume, but you have to believe that when guys are seeing that Dana is making bank while the fighters are making chump change I don't think they're going to take it anymore. MMA and the UFC is still a business and like all other types of businesses, money is still a major factor. Best believe that.

[El Kabong]

...yeah generalbulldog, IMO the UFC is on easy street right now but the newer guys aren't going to want to get chump change (when compared to even average boxers...hell Alexander Povetkin was looking at making $2.5 million vs Wladimir) in their big time fights...they will eventually go Union (which Boxing not having 1 central Association cannot do but it's not like they need to because THEY make the contracts and sign them).

Coouture vs Toney to me was only going to be "exciting" or "special" if #1 Toney submitted Randy #2 If Randy KO'd Toney or #3 if the fight was close and went the distance.

I know that not all MMA fans are like this, but I think they really have an inferiority complex. Yes there are a ton of ignorant boxing fans but there are people who like MMA and especially UFC right now STRICTLY because "it's the hot new thing"....Spike TV has made it all edgy, Energy Drinks and everything "X-treme" sponsors it, and obviously Dana White (a guy who basically got the doors shut on him in the boxing World) has shown he can market to middle class angry white kids ages 16-30 and perhaps kind of like boxing (and this is important) the fighters can make the sport seem #1 Very Easy and #2 Devoid of actual skill......and when I say "Devoid of actual skill" I mean fighters can make it SEEM like they just go out there and swing wild punches or just rely 100% on brute strength or quickness...it's just the way the minds of those middle class angry white kids work, look at Charlie Zelenoff...sure he's the extreme case of this type of mentality but there are plenty of cats out there just like him that think they can just up and hop in a ring (or octogon) and be somebody. All pro athletes train these days (some a lot more than others) and the guys who are really dedicated to honing their craft can make their sport seem effortless, look at what Michael Jordan did...hell he pretty much damn near ruined basketball because everyone was trying to be "Like Mike" and make all the big time fancy highlite reel plays but they didn't know how hard he worked on the basics to make himself that great...look at Roy Jones Jr. and Ali and Mike Tyson....loads of people say those guys (more so than fighters like Rocky or Joe Frazier) were "Naturally Gifted" and I think that discredits the hard work they put in to becoming as great as they were.

Comparing Boxing to MMA is like comparing Tennis to Badminton....yes they are similar but there are gigantic differences at the same time.

As for the Kimbo-Ray Mercer MMA fight....let's see them box, I wonder how fast Kimbo would have him out of there then.