Saul Alvarez vs Matthew Hatton for the WBC Light Middleweight title

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Originally Posted by koppas

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Originally Posted by Memphis

That has got to be the official saddo's 'fucks sake' gif ;D

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I feel like posting it every time I read one of erics posts. ;D

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two nill

i had a tougher time with skell :)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Wow a lot of moans and whinges on this thread.

Those of you who are bleating on, to whom are your whines directed exactly? And for what reason?

Aside from the usual jokes about Matthew Hatton being shit I don't really see any problem with this fight.

You can't seriously say that Hatton is a joke choice of opponent for Alvarez. He isn't. Alvarez is only 20 years old.

I agree he's gifted and likely to be several classes above Hatton but he's only 20.

At that time in his career the great Floyd Mayweather was fighting the 12-15-1 Tony Duran who had gone 10 fights without a win before meeting Floyd and went a further 6 without winning after.

Hatton as dull and ugly as he maybe is still the legitimate European Champion, is unbeaten in 9 and was robbed by the judges of a win against Lovemore N'dou who took Alvarez the full 12 round distance last time out.

Ok, it's for a vacant belt, but again so what? Are you blaming Oscar for negotioating the best possible deal for his hot prospect fighter?

And why is such a travesty that these fight for a vacant belt? Alvarez is one of boxing's hottest young prospects, and Hatton as much as he bores me keeps on winning fights, has defended his European belt twice and is rated number 5 in the world by both the WBA and WBC.

So both are world ranked, neither has lost in 10 fights, and Alvarez is unbeaten. The title is vacant and we already know you cunts don't think guys like Pacquiao, Margarito or Mosely should be allowed to fight for these belts either, so who can fight for them?

You're all idiots. :)

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You just straightened it all out right there..... Ha. :yay2:

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

To be honest Eric, I think we should move on, arguing is not my thing. You made the point that BOTH MEN ARE DESERVING OF THE SHOT, you had been arguing it, so I made it VERY clear with type at point size 5 in red that you are bang wrong. End of..... Just wanted that point to sink in with a clear and concise message.. No sweats

On the flip side and moving on a little. Maybe Golden Boy could delay this fight till April 9th and have it as chief support to the Light Welterweight World Title fight that is Marcos Maidana vs Erik Morales, with the crowd all laughing in unison at the total shit that GBP are throwing at the boxing public these days.

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:) i am right dude, im just not that hung up about it

another moan is that in your second paragraph? really man you need to chill a bit

cummon magic!

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Haha......... Good man...... Another moan it is my good fellow. All concerning the same thing though, plain odd sanctions from belt orgs.
:yay2:

I'm sure this is still a cover up and we'll see Pac vs Hatton for Pacs title

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Originally Posted by koppas

Being fought at a catchweight of 150lbs. Again.

What an absolute farce. Goldenboy have obviously sent a few envelopes full of cash to the WBC in exchange for them giving Canelo a world title. That is what they have done - given him a title, it's been dripfed to him. The fact he is fighting Matthew Hatton confirms this as there is absolutely no risk of him losing this fight. Another example of what a shambles the governing body are. Goldenboy obviously knew, before the fight was announced, that this fight was going to be for the WBC title. Just wish they had've given it, even a little, credibility by having him fight an actual light middleweight.

I feel a bit sorry for Ryan Rhodes. Worked his way back up the rankings for the past couple of years and being leapfrogged yet again. This time by a fellow cueball-headed Brit who, even as a welterweight and with no disrepect, is European level at best.

WBC - World Boxing Cancer. Slowly killing the sport.

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Alvarez wrecks Rhodes just as easy as he's gonna wreck Hatton. I mean come on now

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Alvarez wrecks Rhodes just as easy as he's gonna wreck Hatton. I mean come on now

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At least he's wrecking a legitimate light middleweight in a fight for the world title for said weight...

you know the more i think about it and the more i read watch the build up and look at their records the more i think hatton has a chance of winning this fight

We all know how people like to build up young boxers, hes the next mexican great and all that, you watch a boxing show what he is on and all you hear is how great he is or is gonna be, its bound to influence

he looks good dont get me wrong but his record isnt amazing, I dont think there is anything hatton couldnt have handled in the same way in his current form

Alvarezes best win on paper is the baldomir KO, but what stage of his carear was baldomir at?

I think this fight will be a lot closer than people are suggesting

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Originally Posted by erics44

you know the more i think about it and the more i read watch the build up and look at their records the more i think hatton has a chance of winning this fight

We all know how people like to build up young boxers, hes the next mexican great and all that, you watch a boxing show what he is on and all you hear is how great he is or is gonna be, its bound to influence

he looks good dont get me wrong but his record isnt amazing, I dont think there is anything hatton couldnt have handled in the same way in his current form

Alvarezes best win on paper is the baldomir KO, but what stage of his carear was baldomir at?

I think this fight will be a lot closer than people are suggesting

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Seeing as Alvarez had to go to decision against recent Hatton oppponent Lovemore N'dou in his last fight I don't think we are witnessing the emergence of a p4p star just yet.

I expect Alvarez to win, and I'm certainly no fan of Matthew Hatton but if he believes in himself and doesn't freeze he can make this a competitive fight.

My guess is Alvarez wears him down and stops him late but it's a good matchup for Alvarez at this stage in his career, only twenty years old after all.

Whether it should be for a light middleweight title is debatable but the belt is vacant, and they don't mean a lot these days anyhow.

At the end of the day Golden Boy believe in Alvarez and think he could be the next big Mexican star. The WBC presumably also think he is a better champion elect for them than Ryan Rhodes and who can really disagree?

Alvarez is good for boxing. He's popular, he's exciting, he may well be one for the future. Ryan Rhodes offers what to world boxing exactly?

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

I agree, alvarez will mean more to the world of boxing than rhodes

ideally tho what i would most like to happen is Hatton win in a cracker and the brings the belt home to fight rhodes

maybe that is a bit far fetched like :)

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

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Originally Posted by koppas

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

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Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by koppas

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

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Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

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Your missing the point again. I want to see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it. Pac fighting for the title was a joke but, to be fair, he was the best welterweight in the world and it was the next logically step up if he wanted another title in another weight. Hatton is only European welterweight champion and would get destroyed by the majority of the top ten fighters in the division. At least, by fighting Ryan Rhodes (or anyone else in the top ten), Alvarez would be fighting one of the' best' in the division.

It's strange that the majority of the boxing public are outraged that Matthew Hatton has a world title fight at light middleweight but a few on here don't seem to have a problem with it. The problem isn't, as i've said, with Alvarez.

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Originally Posted by koppas

Yes I would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it.

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the fight was already made

The WBC obviously wanted alvarez to fight for the title so what options did they have to get it done following manny vacating?

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Originally Posted by koppas

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by koppas

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

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Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

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Your missing the point again. I want to see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it. Pac fighting for the title was a joke but, to be fair, he was the best welterweight in the world and it was the next logically step up if he wanted another title in another weight. Hatton is only the European welterweight champion who would get destroyed by the majority of the top ten fighters in the division. At least, by fighting Ryan Rhodes (or anyone else in the top ten), Alvarez would be fighting one of the best in the division.

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I agree that Matthew Hatton isn't the ideal opponent to win a world title from, but he's actually a very respectable opponent for Alvarez at this stage in his career. He's the reigning European light welterweight champion, is unbeaten in 10 fights and has defended his title two times. He's also rated number 5 in the world in both the WBA and WBC rankings.

Alvarez is twenty years old.

It's not a bad fight in all honesty, if it was for a vacant light welter title it would be completely legitimate imo.

At light middle it's clearly a case of negotiating power over merit but as I couldn't care less about Ryan Rhodes or any of the other non entities at the weight class it doesn't bother me.

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Originally Posted by koppas

It's strange that the majority of the boxing public are outraged that Matthew Hatton has a world title fight at light middleweight but a few on here don't seem to have a problem with it. The problem isn't, as i've said, with Alvarez.

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Bilboa is obviously taking over in my argument on this one, which I am a little upset about mind, i like a good debate as you know and i was in the thick of things before, now i seem to be an outsider in my own barrel of fun :mad:

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

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Originally Posted by erics44

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

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Ok.

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Originally Posted by koppas

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Originally Posted by erics44

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

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Ok.

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do you love me now?

Where the fuck is Craig Watson these days ???

This should be Ryan Rhodes opportunity for the title not Hatton who has never fought a class fighter at this weight. It is who you know, that has got him this opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Master

This should be Ryan Rhodes opportunity for the title not Hatton who has never fought a class fighter at this weight. It is who you know, that has got him this opportunity.

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If he surname wasn't Hatton, he wouldn't be a European champion. Nor fighting in Vegas. FACT*.

*This may or not be fact but it is my personal view and does not represent the views of SaddoBoxing.

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Originally Posted by koppas

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Originally Posted by Master

This should be Ryan Rhodes opportunity for the title not Hatton who has never fought a class fighter at this weight. It is who you know, that has got him this opportunity.

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If he surname wasn't Hatton, he wouldn't be a European champion. Nor fighting in Vegas. FACT*.

*This may or not be fact but it is my personal view and does not represent the views of SaddoBoxing.

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But is that so bad though? Effectively what you are saying is that because of who his brother is Hatton is more interesting to the average fight fan than Ryan Rhodes, and so there for gets an opportunity that Ryan didn't.

That's good right? Ok not for Ryan Rhodes, but good that fightfans get to see who they want to fight.

Nepotism is rife in boxing. Chavez Jr, Ronald Hearns, McGirt Jr, Bobby Pacquaio.....none of these guys would have careers if it wasn't for their father's or siblings.

But thanks to their more successful relations these guys get to put food on their families tables. It's a wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by koppas

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Originally Posted by Master

This should be Ryan Rhodes opportunity for the title not Hatton who has never fought a class fighter at this weight. It is who you know, that has got him this opportunity.

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If he surname wasn't Hatton, he wouldn't be a European champion. Nor fighting in Vegas. FACT*.

*This may or not be fact but it is my personal view and does not represent the views of SaddoBoxing.

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But is that so bad though? Effectively what you are saying is that because of who his brother is Hatton is more interesting to the average fight fan than Ryan Rhodes, and so there for gets an opportunity that Ryan didn't.

That's good right? Ok not for Ryan Rhodes, but good that fightfans get to see who they want to fight.

Nepotism is rife in boxing. Chavez Jr, Ronald Hearns, McGirt Jr, Bobby Pacquaio.....none of these guys would have careers if it wasn't for their father's or siblings.

But thanks to their more successful relations these guys get to put food on their families tables. It's a wonderful thing.

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I disagree with you about McGirt Jr. and Ronald Hearns. They are good solid fighters in their own right and far from bums. They would have careers without the last name, just not as successful or marketable of careers.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

I disagree with you about McGirt Jr. and Ronald Hearns. They are good solid fighters in their own right and far from bums. They would have careers without the last name, just not as successful or marketable of careers.

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So would Matthew Hatton. And the same as Hearns or McGirt Jr, his career wouldn't be as succesful or marketable. He is a good solid fighter in the same way they are, only without the Hatton name he would probably still be fighting around the British/Euro level.

But hey if Arum and Pac want to do it's ok...lol If Oscar sends envelopes of cash then Arum must send suitcases

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

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Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

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Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

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I have to be honest I see boxing and MMA as entertainment. I just want to see the best fights get made, and belts, weight classes etc don't interest me.

I don't care about catchweights, I don't care about alphabet belts or anything else.

As I understand it this fight is to take place at 150 lbs, a weight Alvarez has fought at for his last few fights. He's only 20 so clearly is going to grow into a full junior and then middleweight fighter so makes sense he's moving up.

Yes neither he now Hatton has done anything to warrant a world title in that division, but since when has a belt had any meaning in a division? If you want to see who is the best fighter in a weight class look to the Ring Rankings, the belts mean absolutely nothing to fight fans and do not (and havent for decades) represented who are the best fighters in the division.

What having a world title will do for Alvarez however is give him an increased profile which is good for the sport, at least commercially.

Id' rather have guys like Alvarez and Gamboa being managed to artificially created belts than have fighters with no world appeal or interest hold them.

The lightweight middle division is currently a wasteland with no decent fighters. It seems that the WBC are trying to encourage at least one commercially viable exciting prospect there and to give him a belt, which is no bad thing.

As for Hatton vs Rhodes as an opponent. Maybe Alvarez doesnt want to weigh 154lbs just yet and hasn't grown into the weight so is going for a 147lber.

I don't really care to be honest, I have no purist attatchment to either weightclasses ro title belts, I just want them to bring Alvarez along and get him to have a decent marketable career.

I have no problem with the fight at all.

I should add a caveat here. I'm thinking like this because the light middleweight division as it stands is a mess.

With Williams and Martinez moving up, and Manny moving back down it's one of the most empty divisions in boxing with no recognised champions. Fuck K9 Bundrage is a world champ there!

So having a high profile fighter like Alvarez who could bring some excitment to the weight class move into it is a good thing.

I wouldn't support fighters going into a stacked weight class and getting a title shot ahead of legit stars but pragmatically in this case I don't see it as a bad thing to get a guy like Alvarez into the division with a belt and some marketing to make the division a bit more exciting.

At the end of the day boxing isn't like other sports. It's an event based sport where each big fightcard is like a movie release. We need big movies and Alvarez having a world title belt might help create that later in the year and in 2012 in the light middleweight division.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

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Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

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I like to see entertaining fights too... just like the next guy. But you make a good point regarding the WBC. I wouldn't mind too much if this favoritism they have were more subtle and understated. But it's not... it's blatant and insulting to us real boxing fans. Suliaman should've been removed from his post a LONG TIME AGO... all he's done is undermine the little credibility boxing has left in some circles.

I'm not saying the other organizations are head and shoulders above the WBC. But with Suliaman at the helm, the WBC might as well just put out a full-page ad:

"World title holders WANTED: (Non-Mexicans need not apply)."