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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
I remember hearing about Kirkland a few years ago and he sounded like an arsehole back then and from what i been reading he still is now.
That was the first time i have seen him fight and he looked pretty raw shitty defence too. To be fair though he looked like he was ok after the knockdowns he wasnt dizzy and wobbling and his eyes were clear he could interact with the ref he was able to go straight back in to the fight. Was hard to tell how he was affected from the final knockdown as Joe Cortez looked like he was about to pin him down but he was probably ok.
They let JMM continue against Pac after a bad first round and i think the fight might have got interesting had he made it through the first but will never know. He was getting caught far too easy though so was probably just a matter of time.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Weird statements really. If he had no power then why did Kirkland keep falling to the floor in a heap. Denial and delusion are his good friends in the wake of a loss like that.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Weird statements really. If he had no power then why did Kirkland keep falling to the floor in a heap. Denial and delusion are his good friends in the wake of a loss like that.
Indeed if you watched after the fight he was shocked what happened, really seems on denial why its stop early, well i guess most of the undefeated will do the same thing ex. Judah of Tzsyu, Darchinyan to Donaire, Solis to Pac, i remember Solis said after the fight with Pac.. his wifey hits harder then Pac. ::confused:;D
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UKPH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Weird statements really. If he had no power then why did Kirkland keep falling to the floor in a heap. Denial and delusion are his good friends in the wake of a loss like that.
Indeed if you watched after the fight he was shocked what happened, really seems on denial why its stop early, well i guess most of the undefeated will do the same thing ex. Judah of Tzsyu, Darchinyan to Donaire, Solis to Pac, i remember Solis said after the fight with Pac.. his wifey hits harder then Pac. ::confused:;D
Mind you, I do think he should have been allowed to continue. He was all over the place, but hardly out of it. Marquez/Pac is another one that springs to mind. That went on and rightfully so. Unless the fighter is really mentally out of it, you have to give him the opportunity to work it on out.
Cortez is a complete cunt and continually produces new evidence to prove why this is the case.
Still, Kirkland was obviously in denial. You don't get put down 3 times and say someone had no power. If there was no power then you wouldn't be going down. That final punch clearly had a bit of a kick.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
TBH I really don't see too many people complainig about the stoppage, well on other forums that is.
Because let's be honest, someone will always have something to complain. If it gets stopped too late, people complain, if it's too soon they still complain.
And Kirkland I'm pretty sure doesn't have the boxing IQ of JMM to turn fights around when he's on his back. Just a gut feeling.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
TBH I really don't see too many people complainig about the stoppage, well on other forums that is.
Because let's be honest, someone will always have something to complain. If it gets stopped too late, people complain, if it's too soon they still complain.
And Kirkland I'm pretty sure doesn't have the boxing IQ of JMM to turn fights around when he's on his back. Just a gut feeling.
You don't hold a fighter to the ground when he is obviously trying to get up. He was losing the round horribly, but quite in control of his senses. Maybe it would have made no difference. But just as he probably wouldn't have put on a Marquez masterclass, he might very well have cleared his head between rounds and gone on to knockout the profoundly civilised person that was very clearly Japanese.
I ALWAYS disagree with premature stoppages. You only stop a fight if the legs have turned to jelly or you are cut down to the skull. Anything else is the ref trying to take centre stage and Cortez is the king of that.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UKPH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Weird statements really. If he had no power then why did Kirkland keep falling to the floor in a heap. Denial and delusion are his good friends in the wake of a loss like that.
Indeed if you watched after the fight he was shocked what happened, really seems on denial why its stop early, well i guess most of the undefeated will do the same thing ex. Judah of Tzsyu, Darchinyan to Donaire, Solis to Pac, i remember Solis said after the fight with Pac.. his wifey hits harder then Pac. ::confused:;D
Mind you, I do think he should have been allowed to continue. He was all over the place, but hardly out of it. Marquez/Pac is another one that springs to mind. That went on and rightfully so. Unless the fighter is really mentally out of it, you have to give him the opportunity to work it on out.
Cortez is a complete cunt and continually produces new evidence to prove why this is the case.
Still, Kirkland was obviously in denial. You don't get put down 3 times and say someone had no power. If there was no power then you wouldn't be going down. That final punch clearly had a bit of a kick.
Yes it could be early stoppage, also im no fan of Cortez but we dunno whats also in mind of Cortez coz maybe he sees also that Kirkland long inactivity in the ring, thats the thing he tried made to decide. Also the first knockdown tells something its not that hard or brutal really but it tells something not right.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Didn't Cortez ref Pac - JMM 1?
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
It's a bit of shame, but typical that after a fighter's loss we have the usual vitriolic glee at his exposing, and the cries of 'I told you so' etc.
I hope he can bounce back. He must have been hurt to keep going down but to his credit he kept getting straight back up immediately.
I think he was probably ok to continue, but 3 knockdowns in a round usually signals the end so he has himself to blame for the stoppage more than the referee for sure.
He looked clueless in there and was just getting tagged at will. We saw Amir get demolished and exposed as a nothing in even less time than it took Kirkland to get beat but he overcame the obstacle of being a chinless hype job by jamming a win against an unable to see Barrera, then won a title against a hopeless belt holder who became a top level fighter only after losing to Khan and then beat the very dangerous Maidana, who as we found out at the weekend was actually a nobody too.
Maybe Kirkland can get back with Ann Wolf and regain his confidence agains some bums and then find a way to demolish luckily one of the current champs on the day that they become finished and shot.
I like the kid, and will always root for a troubled youth to reform his ways and reach the top so I shall hope for this.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Didn't Cortez ref Pac - JMM 1?
Actually, I think he did which makes it even more dodgy. At least if the referee is consistent then you know what you are dealing with, but Cortez isn't. A different example is with holding. He let Hopkins hold Calzaghe all night long and yet Hatton wasn't allowed near Floyd.
At least be consistent so that you know where you stand.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Didn't Cortez ref Pac - JMM 1?
Actually, I think he did which makes it even more dodgy. At least if the referee is consistent then you know what you are dealing with, but Cortez isn't. A different example is with holding. He let Hopkins hold Calzaghe all night long and yet Hatton wasn't allowed near Floyd.
At least be consistent so that you know where you stand.
I think often the corner must speak to the ref before the fight and complain. Complain about elbows, holding, low blows when he's in trouble whatever. I think the idea is to get the ref to watch for it rather than let him pick it up on his own. I know in American football that's what they teach us.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
It's a bit of shame, but typical that after a fighter's loss we have the usual vitriolic glee at his exposing, and the cries of 'I told you so' etc.
I hope he can bounce back. He must have been hurt to keep going down but to his credit he kept getting straight back up immediately.
I think he was probably ok to continue, but 3 knockdowns in a round usually signals the end so he has himself to blame for the stoppage more than the referee for sure.
He looked clueless in there and was just getting tagged at will. We saw Amir get demolished and exposed as a nothing in even less time than it took Kirkland to get beat but he overcame the obstacle of being a chinless hype job by jamming a win against an unable to see Barrera, then won a title against a hopeless belt holder who became a top level fighter only after losing to Khan and then beat the very dangerous Maidana, who as we found out at the weekend was actually a nobody too.
Maybe Kirkland can get back with Ann Wolf and regain his confidence agains some bums and then find a way to demolish luckily one of the current champs on the day that they become finished and shot.
I like the kid, and will always root for a troubled youth to reform his ways and reach the top so I shall hope for this.
Wise words Bilbo.
As boxing fans, we love to see young up and coming fighters fall so we can stroke our own egos and scream "See !? See !? I was right ! I'm so smart ! I told you so !"
Nevermind that the loss just set back a tough, determined young man who has had a very rough life and fought his way out of poverty.
We are all guilty of it and it is wrong.
Kirkland will be back, I hope it was just that he got caught cold, and had trouble cutting weight, ring rust etc. Cus if its his chin, then he is screwed.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Is it me or did Cortez try and sexually abuse Kirkland after the final knockdown?
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quick question. If Kirkland had survived the round, what would the score of the round be? 10-6?
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Let's give Ishida a little credit here, Kirkland was fight the way he always does barging forward, storming the castle, Ishida was aware of this and covered the moat (Beastmaster reference for the children here). He walking Kirkland directly into his shots. Was Kirkland a changed man from prison? It's very possible, but he wasn't exactly doing anything differently, great win for Ishida, I'm not gonna take away from that saying Kirkland wasn't the same man he was before prison, because he wasn't doing anything differently in the ring.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Good point. Ishida hit him with nice, straight punches, didn't get excited and wild. He took advantage of the openings presented and ended the fight.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Let's give Ishida a little credit here, Kirkland was fight the way he always does barging forward, storming the castle, Ishida was aware of this and covered the moat (Beastmaster reference for the children here). He walking Kirkland directly into his shots. Was Kirkland a changed man from prison? It's very possible, but he wasn't exactly doing anything differently, great win for Ishida, I'm not gonna take away from that saying Kirkland wasn't the same man he was before prison, because he wasn't doing anything differently in the ring.
This is true.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
On other boxing boards people were saying that Ishida isn't the bum he's presented to be. It seems that 5 of his 6 losses were extremely close and could have went in his favor, not to mentioned the guy was never ko or stopped in a fight. So his fight record plus his lack of ko power was very deceptive. GBP messed up with this matchmaking. Oh well, another prospect bites the dust.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
TBH I really don't see too many people complainig about the stoppage, well on other forums that is.
Because let's be honest, someone will always have something to complain. If it gets stopped too late, people complain, if it's too soon they still complain.
And Kirkland I'm pretty sure doesn't have the boxing IQ of JMM to turn fights around when he's on his back. Just a gut feeling.
You don't hold a fighter to the ground when he is obviously trying to get up. He was losing the round horribly, but quite in control of his senses. Maybe it would have made no difference. But just as he probably wouldn't have put on a Marquez masterclass, he might very well have cleared his head between rounds and gone on to knockout the profoundly civilised person that was very clearly Japanese.
I ALWAYS disagree with premature stoppages. You only stop a fight if the legs have turned to jelly or you are cut down to the skull. Anything else is the ref trying to take centre stage and Cortez is the king of that.
Was this fight under the 3-KO rule? If so, then he made the right desicion to stop it :-\ . Just following the rules.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
TBH I really don't see too many people complainig about the stoppage, well on other forums that is.
Because let's be honest, someone will always have something to complain. If it gets stopped too late, people complain, if it's too soon they still complain.
And Kirkland I'm pretty sure doesn't have the boxing IQ of JMM to turn fights around when he's on his back. Just a gut feeling.
You don't hold a fighter to the ground when he is obviously trying to get up. He was losing the round horribly, but quite in control of his senses. Maybe it would have made no difference. But just as he probably wouldn't have put on a Marquez masterclass, he might very well have cleared his head between rounds and gone on to knockout the profoundly civilised person that was very clearly Japanese.
I ALWAYS disagree with premature stoppages. You only stop a fight if the legs have turned to jelly or you are cut down to the skull. Anything else is the ref trying to take centre stage and Cortez is the king of that.
Was this fight under the 3-KO rule? If so, then he made the right desicion to stop it :-\ . Just following the rules.
not the 3-0 rules, but the fight wasn't ending any different no matter when it was over, in my opinion.
is it me or have a lot of americans and american prospects been biting the dust recently? paul williams, danny jacobs, james kirkland, kelly pavlik for that matter, cris arreola etc.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Kirkland has lost his mind and hell yes the fight should have been stopped. Just because you can get up forty times doesn't mean the ref should let you. This you hit me and i'll just hit you back harder eventually style he has is gonna get him beat by a lot of the top guys. The japanese guy would have continued to give himself space and pick his shots all night. Kirkland only knows one thing, come forward and punch repeat. Ref just got everyone to the next fight quicker is all.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
TBH I really don't see too many people complainig about the stoppage, well on other forums that is.
Because let's be honest, someone will always have something to complain. If it gets stopped too late, people complain, if it's too soon they still complain.
And Kirkland I'm pretty sure doesn't have the boxing IQ of JMM to turn fights around when he's on his back. Just a gut feeling.
You don't hold a fighter to the ground when he is obviously trying to get up. He was losing the round horribly, but quite in control of his senses. Maybe it would have made no difference. But just as he probably wouldn't have put on a Marquez masterclass, he might very well have cleared his head between rounds and gone on to knockout the profoundly civilised person that was very clearly Japanese.
I ALWAYS disagree with premature stoppages. You only stop a fight if the legs have turned to jelly or you are cut down to the skull. Anything else is the ref trying to take centre stage and Cortez is the king of that.
So you're saying Kirkland wasn't hurt right? He was hurt bad. I don't think that's up for discussion. Those weren't flash knock downs.
JMM got a pass because that was a championship unification fight where the one holding the titles get the benefit of the doubt and are allowed to continue. This was no championship fight. Just a prospect getting his ass whipped.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
He fought like a dickhead. Went in unprotected and had a scare. Instead of adjusting and tightening his defense up, kept going unprotected and got the inevitable. You would hope he learns from this but I have my doubts, especially after hearing his view of what went wrong with the fight.
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Re: Kirkland fight SPOILERS!!
Apparently Kirkland hasn't had any sparring and hasn't been talking to his trainer Kenny Adams for the past 4 weeks. It's absolutely ridiculous to think you can go in against a guy who has fought at championship level (I thought he beat Canelo's brother) without that. He needs to get on his hands & knees and beg Ann Wolfe to take him back.
As it is, I don't think he's chinny. He got dropped only by Allen Conyers previously, and he can really punch, and was up immediately & dropping him. Maybe something did happen in prison, but I suspect that his current training system is fucking him. I also think GBP should have given him another easy fight after the Berrio one, there was too much of a jump imo.
Still it all added to a good card for the fans. I've got to say Golden Boy get a lot of stick, but I'm impressed by their willingness to put their guys (Ortiz, Jacobs, Khan, Broner & Kirkland) in tricky fights even if it doesn't always work out.
