This is dedicated to ALL of you who said SSM was a worthy opponent...

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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I'm pretty sure you've been at other boxing forums and the response is the same, some guys just won't be credited like Manny and Floyd. Let's just say hypothetically Manny does make 135 and beat JMM. Do you know what the criticism will be? He fought an old JMM that was long in the tooth, even though he himself isn't exactly some spring chicken with close to 60 fights. Meh.

To get that 5th lineal title he can still do it, but it would have to be at 147 and against Floyd which is a possiblity.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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Its a ridiculous argument that wouldnt be applied to any other fighter.

Why are you not berating Martinez for not moving down to 147 to fight the p4p best fighter in the world?

Why doesnt Marquez move down to bantam and fight Nonito Donaire if he cant get Manny for a third time?

I want to see LUcian Bute prove himself against Martinez and fight for the middleweight title. If he really wanted to be the best he'd do that surely..

I think the guy who started this thread should be banned for a month for thinking this would be Pac's hardest fight.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...oing-face.html

going up in weight will do JMM no good at all.

I got four words for you mick:

WAR JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ !!!!!

It was a horrible fight all along. I hated it, but had to support the underdog. It doesn't mean that I ever really thought he had a chance though. In fact Mosley's performance simply magnified how much he has slipped and how Manny struggles with anyone that attempts to use a little movement and to the side on him. Marquez would pounce on those oppenings and would throw in combination. Mosley threw 7 right hands all night.

It is quite obvious that Marquez would be a worthier opponent. And yes at 140. Pac takes off a couple of pounds and Marquez moves up an entire division. There is no good reason why Manny cannot make that one sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by miles

There is no good reason why Manny cannot make that one sacrifice.

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Yeah. Make a sacrifice for the benefit of your opponent :o I hope Martinez can do the same.


Seriously. 140?? If Pac is going for pure legacy here. he should go for 135 for Juan's Lineal Title. 140 doesnt make sense. Its either 147 for Pac Welter title or Juan's Lineal Lightweight title.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

There is no good reason why Manny cannot make that one sacrifice.

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Yeah. Make a sacrifice for the benefit of your opponent :o I hope Martinez can do the same.


Seriously. 140?? If Pac is going for pure legacy here. he should go for 135 for Juan's Lineal Title. 140 doesnt make sense. Its either 147 for Pac Welter title or Juan's Lineal Lightweight title.

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It makes perfect sense. One man goes up and the other comes down, then the grudge match is on. It is daft to expect Manny to boil down to a weight he might not now be able to perform at and it is equally daft to ask Marquez to jump two divisions again in his mid to late 30's.

If Pac wants to fight Martinez then go for it. I've been reading that Martinez might well come back to 154 because of the lack of big fights at MW. Equal fight as well. One goes up and the other comes down.

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Originally Posted by miles

Pac takes off a couple of pounds and Marquez moves up an entire division.

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147 down to 140 is not an entire division? Mosley was 147 last night :D

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Originally Posted by miles

It makes perfect sense. One man goes up and the other comes down, then the grudge match is on. It is daft to expect Manny to boil down to a weight he might not now be able to perform at and it is equally daft to ask Marquez to jump two divisions again in his mid to late 30's.

If Pac wants to fight Martinez then go for it. I've been reading that Martinez might well come back to 154 because of the lack of big fights at MW. Equal fight as well. One goes up and the other comes down.

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It makes perfect sense to you :)

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy. Marquez is the Lineal Lightweight champion of the WORLD. they should fight at 135 if Pac is going for Legacy. if not depend his belt at 147. its very simple really.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

Pac takes off a couple of pounds and Marquez moves up an entire division.

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147 down to 140 is not an entire division? Mosley was 147 last night :D

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Originally Posted by miles

It makes perfect sense. One man goes up and the other comes down, then the grudge match is on. It is daft to expect Manny to boil down to a weight he might not now be able to perform at and it is equally daft to ask Marquez to jump two divisions again in his mid to late 30's.

If Pac wants to fight Martinez then go for it. I've been reading that Martinez might well come back to 154 because of the lack of big fights at MW. Equal fight as well. One goes up and the other comes down.

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It makes perfect sense to you :)

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy. Marquez is the Lineal Lightweight champion of the WORLD. they should fight at 135 if Pac is going for Legacy. if not depend his belt at 147. its very simple really.

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But Pac isn't even weighing in at 147. It really is less than a division for him.

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Originally Posted by miles

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Professor Miles is not reading the entire post. :(

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy.

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My point is. If Pac agrees to go down it means he's going for Legacy. 140 doesnt make sense it should be 135 for Juan's Title. Why are you arguing about 135? that is Marquez's current weight right? he has zero fight at 140. so what's the problem with Lightweight? :confused:

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Professor Miles is not reading the entire post. :(

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy.

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My point is. If Pac agrees to go down it means he's going for Legacy. 140 doesnt make sense it should be 135 for Juan's Title. Why are you arguing about 135? that is Marquez's current weight right? he has zero fight at 140. so what's the problem with Lightweight? :confused:

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No, I understand quite clearly, but even I, as much as I want the advantages to be in favour of Marquez, cannot imagine Manny ever agreeing to fight him at 135. If it were a possibility I would be all for it, but I have a hard time seeing Manny give up two weight classes just to give Marquez every advantage. I just think the only realistic chance of the fight getting made is at 140 and even though it wouldn't be for a belt, I don't think that matters. The names alone will sell the fight. Manny is at the stage now where belts don't matter, but he really does need credible opponents.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Professor Miles is not reading the entire post. :(

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy.

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My point is. If Pac agrees to go down it means he's going for Legacy. 140 doesnt make sense it should be 135 for Juan's Title. Why are you arguing about 135? that is Marquez's current weight right? he has zero fight at 140. so what's the problem with Lightweight? :confused:

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No, I understand quite clearly, but even I, as much as I want the advantages to be in favour of Marquez, cannot imagine Manny ever agreeing to fight him at 135. If it were a possibility I would be all for it, but I have a hard time seeing Manny give up two weight classes just to give Marquez every advantage. I just think the only realistic chance of the fight getting made is at 140 and even though it wouldn't be for a belt, I don't think that matters. The names alone will sell the fight. Manny is at the stage now where belts don't matter, but he really does need credible opponents.

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The answer is . . .
Pacman vs Bradley(at 140 for Bradley's title)
JMM vs Judah(at 140 for Judah's title)

There is no way in hell Pac is going down to 135, so i don't understand why you are arguing about it. This fight should be at 140, or as much as i hate catch weights 143.

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Professor Miles is not reading the entire post. :(

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy.

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My point is. If Pac agrees to go down it means he's going for Legacy. 140 doesnt make sense it should be 135 for Juan's Title. Why are you arguing about 135? that is Marquez's current weight right? he has zero fight at 140. so what's the problem with Lightweight? :confused:

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No, I understand quite clearly, but even I, as much as I want the advantages to be in favour of Marquez, cannot imagine Manny ever agreeing to fight him at 135. If it were a possibility I would be all for it, but I have a hard time seeing Manny give up two weight classes just to give Marquez every advantage. I just think the only realistic chance of the fight getting made is at 140 and even though it wouldn't be for a belt, I don't think that matters. The names alone will sell the fight. Manny is at the stage now where belts don't matter, but he really does need credible opponents.

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The answer is . . .
Pacman vs Bradley(at 140 for Bradley's title)
JMM vs Judah(at 140 for Judah's title)

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Pacquiao v. Bradley at whatever weight - Bradley has won fights at 147. Same goes for Judah who has fought many fights at 147. Judah would be destroyed though. It wouldn't be close. In my opinion, it's Bradley or Marquez.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

As for this legacy talk, I don't know what you are talking about. Mosley was for legacy? Margarito? Diaz? He picks and chooses his opponents for money or paper trinkets, on that basis a Marquez fight at 140 makes complete sense. To get the man who many think beat him twice. Otherwise, who is he going to fight? Andre Berto?

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Professor Miles is not reading the entire post. :(

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

By going down it means Pac is going for legacy.

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My point is. If Pac agrees to go down it means he's going for Legacy. 140 doesnt make sense it should be 135 for Juan's Title. Why are you arguing about 135? that is Marquez's current weight right? he has zero fight at 140. so what's the problem with Lightweight? :confused:

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No, I understand quite clearly, but even I, as much as I want the advantages to be in favour of Marquez, cannot imagine Manny ever agreeing to fight him at 135. If it were a possibility I would be all for it, but I have a hard time seeing Manny give up two weight classes just to give Marquez every advantage. I just think the only realistic chance of the fight getting made is at 140 and even though it wouldn't be for a belt, I don't think that matters. The names alone will sell the fight. Manny is at the stage now where belts don't matter, but he really does need credible opponents.

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The answer is . . .
Pacman vs Bradley(at 140 for Bradley's title)
JMM vs Judah(at 140 for Judah's title)

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Pacquiao v. Bradley at whatever weight - Bradley has won fights at 147. Same goes for Judah who has fought many fights at 147. Judah would be destroyed though. It wouldn't be close. In my opinion, it's Bradley or Marquez.

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AGREE!!!
Point is, that will give Pacman a chance to get comfortable again making weight at 140. Same with JMM. Giving a fight a 140 so he can get comfortable. Then they can meet.

Don't be surprise Manny take on the weak chin and suspect defense in Ortiz.

Pac fights Marquez at 135 so he can claim another lineal title? ;D

Funny.

I'm sure Pac and his team will seriously consider giving up an advantage over a fighter that has taken him to the wire twice just so boxing nerds can call him a lineal champ. Deary deary me...

Yeah, I was behind Mosley the whole way and I was disappoint time and time again. I knew Mosley was completely shot when Manny was making crucial mistakes, like overthrowing his right hook, and Mosley, despite making him miss three times, wasn't capitalizing like he did against Margarito. He's one of my favorite boxers but he needs to retire and pass on his legacy or something; don't want to see a legend get hurt/embarrassed anymore.

One thing about boxing you never really know what to expect. We don't even know if shane ever even considered winning this fight. He had to hype it to increase revenue but i doubt he really even belived he could win even though convincing so many he could. But this fight being made in the first place was just plain silly. We'll get crap like this fight more and more till we do it mma style and have the best fight the best. Put this ppv fight up against any of the free fights mma puts on free on spike and see what most choose.