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Lets hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
I was worried that it would kick off. But now I really don't think it will. Us British are pretty strong and resilent when it comes to being an inclusive and tolerant society.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
This will blow over and the mps will still continue to rob the country and the injured limbless soldiers returning from war wont even be given housing.
Man just cant rule man.
A higher force is needed.
You know how we often hear 'ordinary Muslims condemn these acts'? Well, I have asked myself why we don't actually hear them condemning it, why we only hear white men condenming it in the name of Muslims, but today we HAVE heard Muslims from all corners of the UK condemning this loudly and clearly. I feel like they shouldn't have to in this case, much like us white christians didn't have to say publically how Breivik didn't represent us, but I feel like they did it anyway because they could feel it was really needed this time.
Go on 99.9% of Muslims!!!
Fuck the EDL.
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Originally Posted by El KabongWar has changed THIS MUCH....Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
The Blitz on the UK- just over 8 months 40,000-43,000 civilian deaths
Dresden - 4 bombing raids death toll 22,000-25,000 civilian deaths
Okinawa - 4/1/45-6/22/45 between 42,000-150,000 civilian deaths
Hiroshima - 1 bomb 90,000-160,000 civilian deaths
Nagasaki - 1 bomb 60,000-80,000 civilian deaths
Iraq War - Wikileaks/Classified Iraq War Logs 1/2004-12/2009 66,081 civilian deaths
As for Afghanistan According to the United Nations, the Taliban were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 2011
Seriously?.......Seriously? Hey and are the US, Japan, England, Germany resentful towards each other? Have they attacked each other since then? NO....the Muzzies have to get some thicker skin for the love of fuck
Yes I'll catch heat for this but war is war, it ain't patty cake its deadly and it's supposed to be
Apparently it has changed this much and religion fundamentally had nothing to do with the examples you used. We invaded fundamentalist Muslim countries and bombed a bronze age country back to the stone age. Comparing ww2 to whats happening today is horse shit. I don't give two cents what the excuses are. We the West go around the world stepping on people and many of those people are stuck in a 5th century time warp. A family of 30 gets wiped out over a mistake and it does not even make the news here. A couple of us get killed and its 24/7 coverage. And apparently these people do hold grudges. I don't think they care whether Germany or Japan holds a grudge over WW2 or not. Fact of the matter is we operate with impunity all over their world and answer to nobody. In their mind this is retribution and obviously in its most brutal form. I'm not condoning this. It is unfortunately a sign of the times.
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Originally Posted by ryanman
Why fuck them..?
Are they beheading people in broad daylight ?
It has got to do with some things mentioned that are Islamic practices like child marriage/rape, as well as terrorism against the public and the mutilation of their young womens genitals,it all has to cease.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzBreivik killed 72. Is anyone really interested in the reasons he gave? or the fact that he smirked through his court case ? It's not about ignoring whose name they said it was done in the name of because like most religions Islam is often used as an excuse for brutality. It is not an excuse though so what more can you do? you can't pretend it doesn't exist and you can't reason with people who have put their fingers in their ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanYou are right Greenbeanz, but there must be answers somewhere as to why there are seemingly more 'mentalists' that associate themselves with Islam than do any other religion/cause - or at least are mental enough to be willing to kill. Clearly the problem is not exclusive to Muslims, and I hope it goes without saying that this isn't indicative of the Islamic faith as a whole, but the occurances of these brutal acts of violence by those that do so under the name of Allah far outweigh the equally horrific actions of the likes of Breivik. I don't think it's reactionary or ignorant to just be aware of this and say it. But saying that is a long long long way from joining the EDL or such. These people clearly represent noone - but the fact that they themselves stated it was done in the name of Allah can't just be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
I bet those who aligned themselves with Breviks politics distanced themselves from him very smartly and stated they had nothing to do with the idiots deeper views or actions.
Thats all the Muslim community have to do as well,but they need to take that message back inside their Mosques and preach it in there to stop more idiots getting the same ideas and committing further acts in their name.
You can say it has nothing to do with them,(true but only personally).
It has got to do with them if they remain quiet in the Mosques about it,yet state publicly outside to us that Islam is a religion of peace. They need to do something about those within their sub groups who state the reverse then train others to act on it.
(It means in the long run a split in their own religion).
I have always hated the fact muslims put religion before nationality.
Are these people british or muslims ?
they hacked an Englishman to death , because of deaths to muslims in Afganistan ,
doesn't that tell you a lot about loyalties.
Religion for me is the cause of all conflicts and I have no time for any of it.
It turns out the British security forces had known about these two pieces of shit for a decade , it beggers belief we cant do something about it , because of the race and religion card which they play.
I would give them the death penalty for treason.
R.I.P
Maybe this:-\.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
Why fuck them..?
Are they beheading people in broad daylight ?
EDL uses an old playbook to spread message of hate
Im glad to hear the 99% of Muslims are denouncing this action,I still think they need to do more work in their own house to stop it from occurring again one way or another.
The Mullah of those two men needs to be locked down or thrown out of England at least, Him and his views need to be booted out of the religion by the 99%.
The EDL is what exactly?
English Defence League.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
A far-right facist group.
On the political spectrum they are to the right of the BNP.
There's only 2 kinds of English leagues I know about... the Premiere League and the Human League ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanEnglish Defence League.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
A far-right facist group.
On the political spectrum they are to the right of the BNP.
I wonder if you British have anything like the Libertarian Party
Wow, for once I completely disagree with you. When it comes to crimes like this, I don't believe that trials and prison bring any sense of justice to the crime. In crimes like this, when there is concrete video evidence that a man has committed such a heinous crime, I geniunely believe slow and painful torture is a correct form of punishment. All this crap about "don't stoop to their level" is bollocks, because they commit this crime, say they'd do it again and don't see any wrong in it. If they felt a similar kind of pain, maybe they'd see how wrong they are. How is a trial going to bring closure to a family, when he is there smiling in the dock?Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzTrials are very important for both the victims honour and as a mark in the sand. We as a society abhor this behaviour and it will result in consequences. You can not let them drag you down to their level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
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Originally Posted by bzkfnWow, for once I completely disagree with you. When it comes to crimes like this, I don't believe that trials and prison bring any sense of justice to the crime. In crimes like this, when there is concrete video evidence that a man has committed such a heinous crime, I geniunely believe slow and painful torture is a correct form of punishment. All this crap about "don't stoop to their level" is bollocks, because they commit this crime, say they'd do it again and don't see any wrong in it. If they felt a similar kind of pain, maybe they'd see how wrong they are. How is a trial going to bring closure to a family, when he is there smiling in the dock?Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzTrials are very important for both the victims honour and as a mark in the sand. We as a society abhor this behaviour and it will result in consequences. You can not let them drag you down to their level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
It's another excuse to stuff more money into crooked defense lawyers' pockets.
When there is soooo much evidence against someone and guilt is so blatant, why waste time on a trial where these dipshits can say "Well I was temporarily insane" or "I was traumatized by the War on Terror".....nah, they shouldn't have even offered them medical treatment after they were shot, just get the bastards and hang them and put their bodies on display in the harbor so that everyone knows what happens to jokers like that.
Muslims in shock after grandfather is killed on way home from mosque - Telegraph
What about the people who stabbed this guy ? should we torture them and then hang their bodies on display?
What happened in Woolwich was horrific but it was a knife crime, a cowardly murder carried out on the street. The media, the clueless government and half of the people reacting like it is an act of war are playing right into the hands of two British born dickheads. Who gave them the authority to speak for aggrieved Muslims from countries they have not even visited? Putting them on the front pages amounts to moral collusion with the pair of self righteous deluded madmen. "You people will never be safe" really? their both fucked after being shot so they are no threat and the war they want on British streets is being rejected by the vast majority of actual Muslims.
That's bad, but you can blame the murders of that soldier for inciting that violence as well. Everyone knew there would be blowback from that attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
If the guys that killed that grandfather are as blatantly guilty as those guys who murdered the soldier yes, I say same rules apply.....is there a video saying they're coming after all Muslims and declaring war on them and that they aren't ever going to be safe?
We can not tolerate people who wish to act in this manner, no mater on religious grounds or
what ever. When you live in a democratic country, you act accordingly not like butchers you
may demonstrate your view, in a law abiding manner.
If you can't may I suggest, you up sticks and move to a Country that will tolerate this kind of
barbaric behavior.There is no room in this Country, for people who don't abide to civilized
culture, we moved on from meed evil times.
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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.
Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?
Bring back the death sentence and treason laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
That attack happened BEFORE the Woolwich incident. Total C***s come in all colours. And yes of course far right groups are just as indiscriminate in their threatening.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThat's bad, but you can blame the murders of that soldier for inciting that violence as well. Everyone knew there would be blowback from that attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
If the guys that killed that grandfather are as blatantly guilty as those guys who murdered the soldier yes, I say same rules apply.....is there a video saying they're coming after all Muslims and declaring war on them and that they aren't ever going to be safe?
No it is a bullshit answer. They wanted to die as Martyrs. I am saying by executing someone without a trial you lend their delusions creedence. They are common criminals. murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.
Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?
Some of the views here reflect a savage disinterest in the rule of law. If you commit a crime there should always be a trial. Once you start discarding rule of law, you end up with all kinds of messiness and once you cross those lines there is no going back.
Lawless states exist in the world and they know who they are. Britain has been complicit in such regimes, but I wouldn't like it to become a 'shoot first and stoop to the gutter like the criminals' type of nation which all too obviously exist.
It has happened and though good for a bit of a media salesboost, I don't think it is a massively significant story. Any excuse to have a go at the Muslims really and the hate for Muslims is largely based upon propaganda and ignorance of what we do to them overseas. It should come as no surprise when some snap and want to wreak havoc. It isn't a quantum leap to see where the dislike of Britain comes from. It is a habitual invader of sovereign Muslim lands. Muslim attacks are a token act of resistance at best. One would have to be blind to fail to comprehend where anger comes from.
In some ways Britain is very lucky. Very few Muslims kill English people and yet the British are likely the reason why perhaps tens of thousands of Iraqi's have dead family members and that is just Iraq. These things are always comparable. What makes it worse is that the British government sponsored the Iraqi bloodshed. It should come as no surprise that the British are not loved by all that sail within her borders.
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Originally Posted by GreenbeanzNo it is a bullshit answer. They wanted to die as Martyrs. I am saying by executing someone without a trial you lend their delusions creedence. They are common criminals. murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.
Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?
Well... at least it's not "noncommittal". ;)
Oh... and I'm sure by executing someone without a trial, that's going to bring out all the other martyrs of the world, who will want to get swiftly executed without the benefit of a trial. Makes all kinds of fucking sense. :rolleyes:
We don't have the death penalty in Britain. Of course a Muslim extremist would want to die as a Martyr. That is the easy way out. The act of a coward.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzNo it is a bullshit answer. They wanted to die as Martyrs. I am saying by executing someone without a trial you lend their delusions creedence. They are common criminals. murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.
Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?
Well... at least it's not "noncommittal". ;)
Oh... and I'm sure by executing someone without a trial, that's going to bring out all the other martyrs of the world, who will want to get swiftly executed without the benefit of a trial. Makes all kinds of fucking sense. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Probably the root cause of your problems.
What a stupid thing to say. Do you really think that States and countries around the world that have the death penalty are free from murder ? Do you think having the death penalty in place would have stopped people blowing up a London Bus On which they sat? Do you really think that two guys callously and cowardly murdering an unarmed soldier or somebody stabbing an unarmed Grandad to death are the result of not having capital punishment ? What you are in effect arguing is that the guilt for these heinous acts somehow rests on the British people for abolishing hanging.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Probably the root cause of your problems.
Well do you just expect me to know that off hand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Yes I agree on your view that assholes have 0 regard for geopolitical, ethnic, socioeconomic, etc boundaries.
What makes these people "far right"? I am just curious.
The point I was trying to make with the Muslims that murdered that soldier was
#1 There's video evidence of it
#2 There's an admission on the tape, while both guys are holding knives and their hands are bloody
#3 The guy threatens further violence
They're BLATANTLY guilty, they were literally caught "red handed" if you will....let's save everyone some time and trouble and just shoot the scum, like I need a jury to know those dudes are guilty they admitted it with the blood on their hands......ON CAMERA.
2 words BULL...........CRAPQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongCAIR for oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingExactly who is defending intolerant cultures?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI have Muslim friends and they are just as outraged and horrified about this as I am....I think it all comes down to assimilation into the Western culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
What gets on my nerves and what worries me are the people on the left who try to defend the Muslim culture of intolerance seemingly with no sense of irony as those same lefties love the Women's Rights movement and LGBT equality/acceptance movement and those very same hardline Muslims would CRUSH those other liberal platforms if they gained any power at all. The hardcore no dancing, no drinking, Christians are one thing, but they have NOTHING on the devout hardline Muslims who stone to death women who have been raped...it's like the lefties are being so open minded all the common sense fell out of their heads.
Lots of countries haven't bombed and killed innocent people in eight Muslim countries in the last few years or sent their military into various Muslim countries. And these countries aren't suffering terrorist attacks because of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If you're going to write off invading Muslim countries and killing vast numbers of Muslims, propping up dictators who keep hundreds of millions of Muslims living under tyranny for generations and so on as a "run of poor plays" then you can't expect any sympathy when people knock your skyscrapers down or bomb your sporting events. It's amazing this kind of thing doesn't happen every week.
Sure, the British didn't put a foot wrong in Iraq and merely provided water for the dehydrated people put at the mercy of insufferable U.N. sanctions being the heavenly types that we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong2 words BULL...........CRAPQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
You are the masters of police militarisation, the murderers of Bin Laden, torturers of Guantanamo and the main architects of Muslim grievances in the world and I am talking Bull? Of course I am to you when suggesting that we are the probable cause and that rule of law is a must.
The British went along with a lot of it and so it is logical to piece together invasions with occasional ethnic or religious disgruntlement.
CAIR has ties to several terrorist organizations (:o I'm shocked) so says DEMOCRATS Chuck Schumer & Dick DurbinQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
The late Seifeldin Ashmawy, publisher of the New Jersey-based Voice of Peace, called CAIR the champion of "extremists whose views do not represent Islam."
Randall ("Ismail") Royer, an American convert to Islam, served as CAIR's communications specialist and civil rights coordinator; today he sits in jail on terrorism-related charges. In June 2003, Royer and ten other young men, ages 23 to 35, known as the "Virginia jihad group," were indicted on forty-one counts of "conspiracy to train for and participate in a violent jihad overseas."
Ghassan Elashi, Bassam Khafagi and other terrorists have worked for CAIR
CAIR demanded the removal of a Los Angeles billboard describing Osama bin Laden as "the sworn enemy," finding this depiction offensive to Muslims. CAIR also leapt to bin Laden's defense, denying his responsibility for the twin East African embassy bombings.
More broadly, TheReligionofPeace.com website pointed out that "of the more than 3100 fatal Islamic terror attacks committed in the last four years, we have only seen CAIR specifically condemn 18."
In 1998, CAIR co-hosted an event at which an Egyptian Islamist leader, Wagdi Ghunaym, declared Jews to be the "descendants of the apes."
But I'm sure you'll brush these off as mere coincidences :rolleyes:
You're late to this discussion the majority of Iraqi civilians killed during the war were killed by their own people in the Shia vs Sunni fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
So, ignore the fact that your nation along with poodle Britain invaded a nation after crippling them with sanctions for a decade, and then decided to strike while the iron was hot (or the people left depleted) and then want to say they killed each other. That is pretty nifty, Lyle. Classy.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYou're late to this discussion the majority of Iraqi civilians killed during the war were killed by their own people in the Shia vs Sunni fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
What happened was the direct result of Saddam Hussein being stubborn. When the Police say "show me your hands" you put your hands up....Saddam didn't heed the warnings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Sorry the Iraqi civilians got caught in a war zone, but it happens man, it happened in England during The Blitz, and all throughout the history of man. Why you don't directly condemn Obama for drone strikes which murder indiscriminantly is confusing to me, but hey.....YOU are miles....you ARE miles....and you do as you want and death to those who disagree with you
What. Are. You. Gibbering. About.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWhat happened was the direct result of Saddam Hussein being stubborn. When the Police say "show me your hands" you put your hands up....Saddam didn't heed the warnings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Sorry the Iraqi civilians got caught in a war zone, but it happens man, it happened in England during The Blitz, and all throughout the history of man. Why you don't directly condemn Obama for drone strikes which murder indiscriminantly is confusing to me, but hey.....YOU are miles....you ARE miles....and you do as you want and death to those who disagree with you
You invaded a country in Iraq based on a LIE (an obvious one) and I have ALWAYS attacked Obama's drone attacks. This is where it gets silly, I am the person that has attacked drones more than anyone else here and suddenly I am not doing it enough and of course you are on about Obama. Just nuts. You are trying to deflect, but are doing so in a way that is too obvious and weak.
If I kill someone then there should be a trial and everything should be laid open, you would much rather just kill someone and hide the body. It is just Goodfella's silliness. It is too easy to just kill and forget about a trial because there is often a lot more than meets the eye and only those avoiding something want to sweep things under a rug.
The Bin Laden murderer did it just how you liked. I'm surprised he doesn't get even the occasional pass from a right wing thug like yourself.
Miles,Kirkland,Lyle,Vendettos,IamInuit,Andre, etc. Who the hell made two British born people spokesmen for Iraqi or Afghan civilians ? By their actions they have shown a breathtaking arrogance, self righteousness and callous ignorance of anyone's suffering and took it upon themselves to be the very embodiment of evil. They should bear the responsibility for what they have done, not innocent Muslims or British Citizens. They wanted to butcher an unarmed man to death on the streets and in doing so should have forfeited any right to a voice. Trying to imply that their predictions of a war on British streets between scum like them and everybody else is imminent or in some way justifiable is playing right into their hands. They are a shitstain on the arsehole of history not a turning point or a call to arms. Common criminals,and murdering scum nothing more.
Saddam Hussein's Defiance of United Nations ResolutionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Saddam Hussein knowingly and repeatedly violated the law......oh I'm sorry what were you saying recently about the UN saying it was an "illegal" war?
The Bin Laden mission was done well.....would have rather he been taken alive and worked over for information, but whatever what's done is done.
Now Anwar Al Awlaki and his son being murdered is something that irks me because despite what a total shitbag that guy was he was an American citizen and we all have the right to a fair trial.
As for the murderers of that British soldier, shoot....them....dead.....they had weapons and were threatening war, shoot them....problem solved.
These are tired arguments Lyle. If we tried to apply the same sanctions on Israel as on Iraq they would have failed. Israel violates a lot more than Saddam and yet Israel gets saved with the veto every time. Saddam was a calculacted attempt to weaken and invade. Just daft arguments and every time wilfully ignorant of very easy comparables.
This thread has f*** all to do with Israel.
Israel is surrounded by Arab & Persian states which wish to see it wiped off the map....they defend their territory. You're the daft oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf