Floyd's performance at 130 alone makes him an ATG.
He's a top 5 all time at 130.
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Floyd's performance at 130 alone makes him an ATG.
He's a top 5 all time at 130.
Saying that Floyd is an ATG & one of the best ever IS a sick jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
What other supposed world champion boxers Daddy has said publically " I will not let my son fight that fighter because his health comes before money , titles etc " ???
Mayweather is a wussy little schoolgirl an ATG boxer?????? ROFLMAO No Way Jose
Dude has been fighting at the championship level for 17 years. If you don't see the significance of that you should probably remove your return key.
the difference is that someone like tyson would blow all of his money right after a fight. even though floyd may be stupid in some respects, he seems pretty business savvy. i dont really see him going broke. he is super rich and has a lot of connections. IMO i believe that his promotional company will boom once he retires.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Actually I am forced to agree with you atleast here. C.J. is an imbecile I am afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Even if all allegations are true of Floyd it's clear. He's among the GOAT's.
Show me a fighter with better defensive/countering abilities combined with athleticism such as Mayweather? Non-existent!
I do at times have problem with the hand injections. Not a major deal, it's legal where he fights so both fighters have the ability but it does make me scratch my head sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
The avoiding is a little different. Floyd has said in a few interviews his ability to pick his fights is one suspected that make him great, he also said he will continue to do it. He said it on one of Showtime all access shows and a different one I don't recall. That actually made me feel a bit better about him. He at
addressed an issue fans have been talking about for years. He didn't go into.any detail, I wish he had. Most of you guys have followed Mayweather four at least a decade longer than I so you have more knowledge than I. Damn, I went into a long ramble and I lost it on here somewhere so let me wrap it up. Sure, Floyd in a way has used legal PED. And I'm not just talking about the hand injections. Still, having said all this I would still put him on the ATG list. He was made for boxing. I think he could have been more exciting if you had a reckless edge like Manny to name one of many. I think Floyd would have lost his 0 if he had fought Larry Merchant that night they went at it. Floyd has to fight fifty. That will make it undeniable. Either way the guy is just to skilled and dedicated. Mind you, this is conning from a postcard. I don't like Floyd but love his boxing.
.
Well if you want to look at it in realistic terms... doesn't everyone at the top level (or at least their handlers) pick their fights? You have many fight options so you have to pick one.
Floyd picks guys who he will make the most money fighting, and really, can you blame him? And there seems to be the feeling that "quality" and "picked fights" are mutually exclusive, like if Floyd is picking complete bums.
If Floyd could do the biggest fight in boxing history vs Canelo and make insane money (because Floyd gets a big cut of the gate and PPVs sold), why would he not fight Canelo as opposed to a guy like Lara, who is probably a tougher fight but is largely unknown by the general public and wouldn't do half as many PPV buys? Because (on paper) Lara is probably the tougher opponent, does that mean Canelo is garbage? He was undefeated and ranked higher than Lara when he fought Floyd.
Boxing has always been a cash grab. I think it's disingenuous to infer that past greats didn't care about money and only fought the guys they thought would give them the toughest challenge. Bullshit. Leonard fought Duran because he was the guy he would make the most money against. Same with Hagler and Hearns. If those guys didn't have hype behind them or there was more money to be made fighting someone else, he would have chose someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244
Is Floyd an ATG, lol. That kind of skill is off the charts. You can't measure that or really compare it to very many that came before him.
And these aren't bums and club fighters he's doing that to. These are world champions.
How someone could watch that and see the insane virtuoso skill that Floyd has and accuse him of not being one of the all time greats is just mind boggling. That's reach a dangerous level of stupidity.
Look at Corrales (33-0, 27 KOs) pin Floyd in the corner, throw four punches and hit nothing but air.
Mayweather is in the top 15 and Pac is in the top 20 if you don't think Mayweather is atg then Pac a fucking bum and so is almost everyone one else.Only guy i might rate over Mayweather over past 25 years i Lewis because he was one of the greatest hw champs which i put a lot stock in. Now i think i might have to stop because i fucking hate Mayweather and have had to actually defend the man. I mean the people are so fucking stupid on this forum anymore that i find myself defending a man in which i fucking never thought would have to do. Saddo used to be worth something now its just a bunch bitter fucks just waiting for someone they hate to lose its pretty sad thing to see really. Also anyone who thinks that Mayweather is not atg should never watch boxing again because its not the sport for you go watch mma or tennis i guess.
I find myself doing that with Floyd. Defending him although I don't like him. He perform some trickery which I don't care for but no doubt he is a marvelous specimen and an all time great. I would still love to see him lose #49 then we can all just say he was a flash in the pan.
No doubt Floyd is an all-time great, granted he doesn't have the rivalries guys like Leonard-Hearns-Duran had, but shit what do you want from the guy?
The ONLY knock against Floyd was that he never unified at any weight class, but that's it, that's a small knock against the guy. His career has been brilliant and everything right now is just icing on the cake.
Now, he's not Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, or Willie Pep but by God he's a fucking amazing fighter.
The only one of those guys who you could even compare to Floyd in terms of in-ring skill would be SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerThe only one of those guys who you could even compare to Floyd in terms of in-ring skill would be SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Do people just look at anything I say about Floyd and attempt to find fault with it or just assume I'm slighting Floyd somehow????? How much praise must I heap on the guy to just have people accept that I think he's a great fighter?
Skill and ability sure....career achievements on the other hand. And let us not discount Willie Pep's skill or abilities...the guy survived a plane crash and came back to fight at an outrageously high level.
Nothing against you in particular, I just think people are being a little ridiculous in including certain guys over Floyd.
People insinuate that Floyd isn't on the level of certain guys (Roberto Duran and Willie Pep in particular), and I question whether those guys should even be considered to be near Floyd's level.
In Roberto Duran, you have a guy who was a great lightweight (although who did he really beat at LW), went up to WW, got a fantastic win over Leonard and then QUIT in a championship match, got outfoxed by Wilfredo Benitez and Kirkland Laing, did good against Hagler but still lost, and got KTFO by Hearns.
Why does this guy pop up in everyone's top 10, and then people laugh when you say that a guy who went undefeated for 18 years (16 of those at the championship level) who beat every style, every body type you can think of (mostly in easy/dominant fashion), should be included in the top 10 as well.
Willie Pep had 229 wins, only 65 KO's, he fought 18 times in 1 year (think about that and the KO% he had), he was seriously injured in a plane crash January 7, 1947 and STILL fought 10 bouts that year winning all of them, he retired in 1960 then came back in 1964 and for the last part of his career he went 43-5 ......yeah, I'm sorry I included him in my all-time greats, I mean obviously the guy wasn't half the fighter Floyd Mayweather is....I mean how foolish of me to even make mention of such a boxing peon in the same thread as the great Floyd Mayweather Jr.
229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?
As for Roberto Duran....you doubt his talent, skill, drive, heart? Fuck 104(69 KO)-16-0 fought from age 16 until he was 50 years old, Universally regarded as the Greatest Lightweight of All-Time, won world titles at: lightweight, welterweight, light middleweight, and middleweight....and he's "not great" or "not worth mentioning with Mayweather"???
Ok, I mean I'm sorry I'm just looking at other "great" fighters and what they did I guess truly none compare. I mean Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMatta, etc beat Ray Robinson....why is Ray in the mix???
Man do not shit on Duran please he started his career below 135 and manged to win a championship at 160 which is hard fucking thing to do. most of his lose came after he was 40 years of age about 10 of them which i have no problem with because still fighting top guys and in his prime lost to atg. I mean Leonard and Hearns i favor to beat Mayweather and Benitez i am not sure of it be weird fight to watch. I am not sure how Mayweather would do against Hagler either i don't think he could beat him. Pac would of never been a WW champ is Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Leonard were around because he would not fight them. I mean i rate Leonard higher then both divas now although he himself could be one but he fought fucking everyone though so i give him a pass on it on being a diva anyhow they are great fighters.
This is where these threads lose track. One guy compliments Floyd then implies he isn't in the league of X, Y, Z. Another guy is offended by that and says maybe Y and Z aren't in Floyds league. Neither side is right even though both guys know what they are talking about. Emotion has entered the fray.
Armstrong is amazing
Pep is amazing
Duran is amazing
Robinson is amazing
Greb is amazing
Leonard is amazing
Floyd is amazing
Etcetera
Everyone has different criteria to determine their rank. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. We can all think we have the formula to be certain but we don't. The only people that are wrong are those that would suggest any of those fighters and many more aren't all time greats.
after a fight doubts appeared with Maidana
Again, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.
So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?
Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.
Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.
You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.
Of course, exactly my thoughts......none of them should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Floyd. In fact they shouldn't even call what those guys did "boxing" because it just doesn't even come close to what Floyd has accomplished. Boxing should be called "Mayweathering" because Floyd Mayweather Jr. is just that great at it!
ALL HAIL THE ALL-TIME GREAT MAYWEATHERING CHAMPION FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR!!!!
The Ray Robinson who has 19 losses? and to who? Great fighters???Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
The Ray Leonard who was beaten pillar to post by the very same Roberto Duran you're saying is a quitter? Yeah pick out the rematch as the 1 fight to focus on, pay no attention to the first fight.
It's not just me saying Duran and Pep belong on the all-time top pound for pound list, it's damn near every single boxing pundit since those guys stopped fighting. But since YOU disagree I guess that means my points aren't valid.
Floyd is a great fighter but not the greatest of all time as he claims to be.
How VERY dare you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I dare because I care and you need to be told the truth but you just can not handle it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHow VERY dare you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Just take a second to let this sink in, Willie Pep started boxing as a professional 2 months shy of his 18th birthday in 1940. By 1942 he was 54-0-0 (that's 27 fights a year), had won the NYSAC World featherweight title (back when that meant something) in The Ring Magazine Fight of The Year vs Chalky Wright. Pep went 62-0-0 before his first loss to Sammy Agnott who was a LIGHTWEIGHT in 1943. Pep recovered until his second loss in 1948 to Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler and Pep's record was then 134-2-1 and this mind you is POST airplane crash which could have and should have ended Pep's career. Pep went on to recover and eventually avenge the loss to Saddler.
But you're going to tell me that doesn't matter? All those guys were bums? Fighting 27 times a year back to back wouldn't wear down a fighter, a fighter wouldn't run the risk of getting caught in that many rounds?
I don't just mention Willie Pep because he's an old timer, I mention him because he was a fucking great fighter! But I guess he just doesn't stand up to Floyd's records and Floyd's challengers.
I mean I am TRYING to be reasonable.....but fucking hell.
Yes I understand quantity vs quality but Willie Pep DID fight Hall of Famers, he DID fighter top fighters, he DID suffer some severe adversity and have to battle through that...to write it off just because you're only looking at the number 229 rather than seeing:
Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler
Ring Top 100 Puncher Chalky Wright
Willie Joyce who owned 2 wins over Henry Armstrong
Hall of Famer Manuel Ortiz
Hall of Famer Phil Terranova
It's not JUST that Pep fought seemingly every week, but he fought a fair few very solid if not great fighters in their own right.
Where you rank him will depend on him still having that ZERO when he retires. Will be on the ATG list somewhere, regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Yuck. When did every poster here turn into a bunch of butt-hurt wimps who cry and resort to lame sarcasm whenever someone disagrees and actually, ya know, tries to debate them? Sweet Jesus.
"I think Floyd undoubtedly deserves to be recognized as one of the greatest of all time, and I take issue with the fact that you mentioned that these two guys are vastly superior to Floyd, because, conversely, I believe they were inferior."
"AHHHHH ALL HAIL KING FLOYD EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE!!! OH NOBODY CAN MATCH UP TO HIM HE COULD OUTRUN USAIN BOLT AND BEAT CAIN VELASQUEZ IN AN MMA FIGHT!!! OHHHH BEANFLICKER I GUESS CUZ YOU DISAGREE EVERYONES DUMB BEANFLICKER AND FLOYD ARE THE EMPERORS OF SPACE AND TIME AHHHHHH FEEL THE WRATH OF MY WITTY SARCASM HAHHHHHHH"
Fuck...
Does it? I think his legacy is fairly set right now given the opponents he has to choose from...now if he said "I'm going to grab a middleweight belt" and did so before he retired, then YES I would immediately put him up with SRR, Duran, Pep, Armstrong, and whoever else you can name. Other than that I don't even really see a loss hampering his career because he's already past his best but he's still great enough to school damn near anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedWhere you rank him will depend on him still having that ZERO when he retires. Will be on the ATG list somewhere, regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Cool, you named 5 guys. Do you think I can't name five quality guys Floyd has fought?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If Floyd sandwiched in 150 BUMS with losing records between his real fights, would that somehow make him greater?
Just out of curiosity, how many times has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" on the level Duran did? In fact, when has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerAgain, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.
So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?
Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.
Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.
You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.
That's a fair enough point, I don't think Mayweather has ever fought someone like a Benitez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I give up Beanflicker....Floyd Mayweather is God, the sun rises and sets with him, nobody has had or will have the talent that man possesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Are we a happy poster now???? Or would you care for me to lavish more praise on Floyd? Can I call him Floyd? Do I have the permission to address The Great One as such???
nooooooope....unadmissable there is no duran there is only floydQuote:
Originally Posted by beanflickerthat's a fair enough point, i don't think mayweather has ever fought someone like a benitez.Quote:
Originally Posted by rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I don't know....when did you?
Floyd was best at the lower weight but he has proved a great fighter by dominating at a weight that is not his best weight. If there were great weltered like Leonard and Hearns he would get beaten. No shame.
Nope, never, never ever would Floyd lose. Not vs Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Benitez, Sanchez, JCC, Argeullo, Pryor, not vs a single one of them......I bet Floyd could fight them all in 1 night, never lose a round, and not allow 1 single drop of sweat to hit the canvas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Because he is Floyd.....and because of him Floyd now equals Greatest. There is only one Floyd, and he is no doubt Great, the Greatest of the Great....all must bow before him!
To be quite honest if Mayweather DID sandwich in 150 tomato cans between big fights HE'D FUCKING LOSE!!!
That's not a knock on how great of a fighter he is or isn't it's just the motherfucking odds on fighting anyone that fucking often!
But hell I guess when I say Floyd is great it's just not good enough for some posters.