Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Addicted to_boxing
He was moving in one direction due to bad knee . That direction was not the direction a southpaw should move in vs a right handed fighter. It was the only gear he could move in . He was not able to brace and put power behind it and he did not dart in and out or make quick stop and go movements. Remarkably he lasted that long. Cotto should have taken him out sooner had he just leaned on him More. Sergio's knees could barely handle his own weight. There was no strength afforded to him he simply had no base to stand up and throw any punches with power.
Sorry not buying that. You are not giving Cotto any credit for steering the vehicle and Martinez has never moved a certain way. He's not a fundamentalist fighter. He relies on his natural athletic ability and not a how to book.He takes a Roy Jones like approach.
See now I have no problem with the notion that Sergio was not at his best. Its the reason I picked Cotto. Its the reason Cotto went after the fight. I would not have picked Cotto 2 years ago. I also have no issues with accepting that he has/had a knee issue. Thing is, if his knee was that bad then he would not have been cleared to fight. The entire knee bracegate almost has the stench of premeditation because Martinez never bothered to train and was living in a sauna the week of the fight.
Cotto got to him early and caught him off balance(which has happened throughout his career because of the way he fights)
Martinez never recovered and that's right from his mouth.Its not really a chicken vs egg question. Cotto found him earlier and laid the egg.That fact happened in front of everyone who watched it.How that has translated to his knee being the cause is unbelievable.Any further damage that may have resulted to his knee which is yet to be substantiated was done as a direct result of being dropped three times, probably concussed badly and never recovering.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.
Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.
He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
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Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyclone
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Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyclone
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.
Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??
Sergio was never all that.
Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.
You sure do like making excuses for Sergio.
Martinez was ALWAYS wide open for the punches Cotto had for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
Martinez issue wasn't his knees which has nothing to do with the way he couldnt get away from Cottos left hook. Almost every hook he threw landed and Martinez could do nothing to get away from it. Even if he was 100% Cotto would still be landing those hooks. He was aggressive when he had to be and patient when he had to be. Props to Cotto. Hope Martinez retires he had a late start and still manged to have a great career great fighter lots of heart for wanting to stay in it.
I dont make excuses not even for one of my favorite fighters im just pointing out that there's a difference from getting KTFO like Pacquiao, Williams or Hatton then getting stopped like Alvarado, Castillo or Martinez.
Sergio quit on his stool before he got KTFO like Williams and Pacman
It was coming and he knew it.
He did get dropped on his face though..
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.
Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.
He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.
You sure are one hypocritocal little Hobbit.
Manny made a living out of beating up old semi disabled fighters...at least Sergio had a license..unlike the shattered version of Margarito Pactrash cherry picked.
Pac has plenty meaningless wins on his juiced-up resume.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyclone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.
Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.
He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.
You sure are one hypocritocal little Hobbit.
Manny made a living out of beating up old semi disabled fighters...at least Sergio had a license..unlike the shattered version of Margarito Pactrash cherry picked.
Pac has plenty meaningless wins on his juiced-up resume.
I don't recall mentioning Pac above.
In fact he has nothing to do with this, so you are being bizarre.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
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Martinez was taken to Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan following the fight and missed the post-fight press conference. An MRI revealed that Martinez suffered a broken nose, but his right knee and left hand, which had been damaged in his last fight in April of 2013, were fine, Lewkowicz said. DiBella said an additional CT Scan revealed "no abnormalities." Martinez was discharged at 5 a.m. on Sunday and traveled back home to Spain later in the day, Lewkowicz said.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sp
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
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Originally Posted by
Abelardus
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Martinez was taken to Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan following the fight and missed the post-fight press conference. An MRI revealed that Martinez suffered a broken nose, but his right knee and left hand, which had been damaged in his last fight in April of 2013, were fine, Lewkowicz said. DiBella said an additional CT Scan revealed "no abnormalities." Martinez was discharged at 5 a.m. on Sunday and traveled back home to Spain later in the day, Lewkowicz said.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sp
So he had no knee injury then 0_o
phantom pain. proably not used to his new knees. im sorry, but I looked like his legs would give out after each punch
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris6878
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abelardus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Martinez was taken to Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan following the fight and missed the post-fight press conference. An MRI revealed that Martinez suffered a broken nose, but his right knee and left hand, which had been damaged in his last fight in April of 2013, were fine, Lewkowicz said. DiBella said an additional CT Scan revealed "no abnormalities." Martinez was discharged at 5 a.m. on Sunday and traveled back home to Spain later in the day, Lewkowicz said.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sp
So he had no knee injury then 0_o
phantom pain. proably not used to his new knees. im sorry, but I looked like his legs would give out after each punch
Thats because Cotto caught him good and early.
Now you all have proof that Martinez knees were fine, shut up whining and accept he just got the shit punched out of him by a former light welter.
Maybe there were random tests? ;)
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
chris6878
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Originally Posted by
Abelardus
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Martinez was taken to Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan following the fight and missed the post-fight press conference. An MRI revealed that Martinez suffered a broken nose, but his right knee and left hand, which had been damaged in his last fight in April of 2013, were fine, Lewkowicz said. DiBella said an additional CT Scan revealed "no abnormalities." Martinez was discharged at 5 a.m. on Sunday and traveled back home to Spain later in the day, Lewkowicz said.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sp
So he had no knee injury then 0_o
phantom pain. proably not used to his new knees. im sorry, but I looked like his legs would give out after each punch
Thats because Cotto caught him good and early.
Now you all have proof that Martinez knees were fine, shut up whining and accept he just got the shit punched out of him by a former light welter.
Maybe there were random tests? ;)
Sergio's sloppy hands down mouth open style finally caught up to him.
Those bodyshots were killing him..;D
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris6878
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abelardus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Martinez was taken to Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan following the fight and missed the post-fight press conference. An MRI revealed that Martinez suffered a broken nose, but his right knee and left hand, which had been damaged in his last fight in April of 2013, were fine, Lewkowicz said. DiBella said an additional CT Scan revealed "no abnormalities." Martinez was discharged at 5 a.m. on Sunday and traveled back home to Spain later in the day, Lewkowicz said.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sp
So he had no knee injury then 0_o
phantom pain. proably not used to his new knees. im sorry, but I looked like his legs would give out after each punch
Phantom pain.....lol....that must be your nickname for Cotto;D
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Teddy Atlas said Cotto would win.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
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Originally Posted by
Master
Teddy Atlas said Cotto would win.
The jinx is broken!!!! Hahaha....
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Exactly. The injuries were old ones and many on both hands and knees, and certainly in terms of lower body activity, it was a seriously depleted Martinez. It was a shell of the fighter he was. With Ali it was brain and body not working in line towards the end, here it was the entire lower body of Martinez. Martinez is as sharp as ever mentally, but his body is gone.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Exactly. The injuries were old ones and many on both hands and knees, and certainly in terms of lower body activity, it was a seriously depleted Martinez. It was a shell of the fighter he was. With Ali it was brain and body not working in line towards the end, here it was the entire lower body of Martinez. Martinez is as sharp as ever mentally, but his body is gone.
Sure...Sergio was depleted.
I bet if GG did that to Sergio you wouldn't be taking that depleted shit.;D;D;D
As a matter of fact you'd be all "I don't wanna' here shit about Martinez' knee...GG is just a beast"
Without a doubt.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Sergio was getting caught clean against Williams and Cintron...don't let the KO's cause you to forget.
Cintron is one of the slowest fighters ever and even he was finding Martinez.
Cotto is just such a step up from the guys Sergio has been fighting and he wasn't able to overcome the learning curve.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyclone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Exactly. The injuries were old ones and many on both hands and knees, and certainly in terms of lower body activity, it was a seriously depleted Martinez. It was a shell of the fighter he was. With Ali it was brain and body not working in line towards the end, here it was the entire lower body of Martinez. Martinez is as sharp as ever mentally, but his body is gone.
Sure...Sergio was depleted.
I bet if GG did that to Sergio you wouldn't be taking that depleted shit.;D;D;D
As a matter of fact you'd be all "I don't wanna' here shit about Martinez' knee...GG is just a beast"
Without a doubt.
I've seen Cotto at his best. He didn't suddenly become immaculate on the Roach wonder camp against Martinez. Provodnikov today showed Roach for what he is, a man that seldom improves fighters. Cotto was the same Cotto and Martinez was shot from the waist down. That was the obvious difference.
Stick Cotto in against GG and see what happens. It will answer most of the questions.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyclone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
I'm re-watching the fight now and what I've noticed is that Martinez is never on his toes. Even in the first round he's on shifting his weight from the middle of his foot to the back of his heel. He's strangely awkward with his feet. He appears to be very mobile but if you look at Cotto he's always pushing off with his toes but Martinez is all middle of the foot and heel with almost no weight being put on the toes and by extension no weight being put on the knees. That explains why he was so easy to knock down. Your toes are your balance if you aren't using them then it's quite easy to knock you over.
After re-watching the Williams fights as well as the Cintron fight I can see that Martinez was up on his toes and using them for movement as well as for power when punching. That just isn't there in the Cotto fight. So there may not have been a point in the fight where Martinez injured his knee...infact there may not have been a new injury to his knee at all. But his behaviour in the Cotto fight suggests that he didn't have the same confidence in his abilities that he used to. He fought differently and he paid for it.
Exactly. The injuries were old ones and many on both hands and knees, and certainly in terms of lower body activity, it was a seriously depleted Martinez. It was a shell of the fighter he was. With Ali it was brain and body not working in line towards the end, here it was the entire lower body of Martinez. Martinez is as sharp as ever mentally, but his body is gone.
Sure...Sergio was depleted.
I bet if GG did that to Sergio you wouldn't be taking that depleted shit.;D;D;D
As a matter of fact you'd be all "I don't wanna' here shit about Martinez' knee...GG is just a beast"
Without a doubt.
I've seen Cotto at his best. He didn't suddenly become immaculate on the Roach wonder camp against Martinez. Provodnikov today showed Roach for what he is, a man that seldom improves fighters. Cotto was the same Cotto and Martinez was shot from the waist down. That was the obvious difference.
Stick Cotto in against GG and see what happens. It will answer most of the questions.
This is just silly and somebody needs to kill the horse instead of beating it. Nobody is saying that Martinez was 100%. Had he been Cotto would have never taken the fight. That should be obvious to just about anyone. Martinez has been on the slide for more then two years. Barker broke his nose and was out boxing him until he gassed out.
Matinez's legs were starting to go long before his knee problems and if anything his new bionic knee actually preserved what career he had left. Now the fact of the matter is, he had no issues with the knee or anything else related and that's what he said after the fight. He then went to the hospital and they cleared him of any injury to his knee or hands. I'm not sure how many facts people need.
Its also ludicrous to suggest that Roach did nothing to improve him because Provo's 15 minutes of fame elapsed. George Benton couldn't train that plodder how to box but many myself included still took him to steamroll Algieri nonetheless.
Cotto won because he was the fresher fighter and had a trainer that knows southpaws. That was obvious also by the number of right hands Cotto landed. Cotto executed a perfect game plan and steered Martinez to his left the entire fight inside.
Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart
You miss the fact that Martinez was moving the wrong way because his leg wouldn't go that way. Why else would you walk into Cotto hooks round after round? All things considered Martinez fought well, but realistically, even in the best of health, Cotto was still fighting a man of 39.
Cotto gets props for the win to a small degree, but to back it up, he needs to fight someone young and hungry.
