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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Every fighter has a coulda, would a, should a, but Roy was the man to beat and it was the other top fighters that did not fight him.
I disagree with that statement. You can't force a guy to get in the ring with you. If he had missed a few guys only throughout his career, then I would agree with you. Great fighters test themselves and prove themselves against other great fighters. Just look at the competition that Whitaker, Tito, Oscar, Shane, Hopkins, Holyfield, Lewis...etc. took on throughout their career.
Roy isn't a bum and I don't think that he was scared of anyone. I do think that he is a smart man and was more interested in making the most money for the least amount of risk and not with securing his legacy. While I agree that the guy was a supreme talent and could have beaten or at least given trouble to any fighter in history, he was at fault for not making some of those big fights happen and his legacy will suffer because of it.
Roy beat B Hop and Toney who are great fighters, he unified all the belts at light heavy and the top fighters should come to him. I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.
The Hop that Roy beat in 1993 was green and no where near the fighter he became in the late 90's and early 2000's to mid 2000's. Hop was tough, but not an elite fighter at that point, just like Roy was no longer elite when Hop beat him in their rematch. Toney was Roy's best win, and only win over a p4p ranked (at the time of the fight) guy.
Roy also never unified all the belts at light heavy, Darius was the WBO and lineal champ. It is hard to say which weight was better for Roy, in my opinion, because he had a great win over Toney at 168, but overall weaker challengers to his title (Vinny Paz!!!). At 175 Roy didn't have that great, signature win over a top p4p guy, but he fought slightly better competition overall than what he had at 168.
I always thought 168 was the perfect weight for Roy, as he had one punch power and was a good sized 168 pounder. At 175 he was on the smaller side (until he fought Ruiz, then he looked HUGE!), and had enough power to shake and discourage guys, but not blow them out as consistently, although the Virgil Hill and Montell stoppages were impressive and spectacular.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Speaking of Hopkins-Jones, did you know that in their 2nd fight Jones basically made 0 money? Yes, that's right, while Hopkins and Goldenboy made $3.5 million.
Quote:
- Yahoo! Sports columnist Kevin Iole reported that Jones probably didn't make any money for the fight. He wrote:
The sad thing about the fight is that Jones won't make anything. Let's assume for a second that the 6,792 in the building actually paid for their seats (we know that's not true) and that the seats averaged $300 a ticket (a figure higher than reality). That would mean the gate was $2 million. If the expenses to rent the building and promote the fight were $1 million, that means $1 million is left. Now, let's figure it sold 100,000 pay-per-views at $49.95 apiece. That's about $5 million. They have to split 50 percent of that with the cable and satellite operators, so that leaves $2.498 million for themselves. Add the $1 million from the gate and the $2.498 million from the pay-per-view and you have $3.498 million in profit. Given that the contract called for the first $3.5 million in profit to go to Hopkins and Golden Boy, it's almost certain Jones fought for nothing.
Bernard Hopkins vs. Roy Jones Jr. (2nd meeting) - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.
Roy not a great LHW? Didn't he spend 7 or 8 years there just murdering everyone?
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.
When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.
Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.
Roy not a great LHW? Didn't he spend 7 or 8 years there just murdering everyone?
Not everyone. He missed a couple like Michalczewski and Rocchigiani.
I also would have liked to have seen him at CW, against Juan Carlos Gomez and Jirov.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.
Roy not a great LHW? Didn't he spend 7 or 8 years there just murdering everyone?
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.
When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.
Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.
Hahaha!!!! Awesome post! "Roy beats anyone ever and if u disagree with me because I made this statement without any supporting facts, I will get mad and wish I could do mean things to u!!!" Look, we get that u r a big fan or Roy's. Got it. The fact is, he didn't fight tough comp at 175 until he got to Tarver. I challenge u to review his record and find someone he beat at 175 who was as big as Tarver, and had the pedigree and boxing background that Tarver had. U lose all credibility when u say Roy could, without a doubt, beat killers at 175 like Foster, Moore, Spinks, and Ezzard Charles. U just can't support those comments and u look ridiculous throwing a fit in the chat room because not many other people agree with u.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Roy didn't cheat to win? U know he got busted for using PEDs, rights?!? Not saying he is the only guy who cheated, just saying everyone does a little diet to get to the top.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Roy didn't cheat to win? U know he got busted for using PEDs, rights?!? Not saying he is the only guy who cheated, just saying everyone does a little diet to get to the top.
Can you get me the documents showing this to be true?
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If u just google it u will see. He and Lou Del Valle both popped for PEDs after their fight.
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Just googled it, it was Richard Hall, not del Valle.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Just googled it, it was Richard Hall, not del Valle.
Can you show me documents... Was he suspended? Fined? What disciplinary action was taken?
Was it just the one time he tested positive--where both fighters tested for it...? That's not very conclusive.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Roy didn't cheat to win? U know he got busted for using PEDs, rights?!? Not saying he is the only guy who cheated, just saying everyone does a little diet to get to the top.
Roy used "Ripped Fuel" when you could buy it over the counter at a freakin 7-11 or corner drug store.
And the fight when it was brought to light was with Richard Hall who cried like a baby that Roy was using illegal meds not peds. As it turned out, Mr. Hall had 10 times the amount of ripped fuel in his system then Roy did. Fighters at the time had been using all kinds of inhalers and shit for years.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
On a separate not in the Ring it said that Roy's mistress, a woman boxer, showed naked pictures of him on instagram because he would not leave his wife.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.
When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.
Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.
Hahaha!!!! Awesome post! "Roy beats anyone ever and if u disagree with me because I made this statement without any supporting facts, I will get mad and wish I could do mean things to u!!!" Look, we get that u r a big fan or Roy's. Got it. The fact is, he didn't fight tough comp at 175 until he got to Tarver. I challenge u to review his record and find someone he beat at 175 who was as big as Tarver, and had the pedigree and boxing background that Tarver had. U lose all credibility when u say Roy could, without a doubt, beat killers at 175 like Foster, Moore, Spinks, and Ezzard Charles. U just can't support those comments and u look ridiculous throwing a fit in the chat room because not many other people agree with u.
Watch Roy Jones fight. Watch Foster fight. Watch Archie Moore fight. Watch Spinks fight.
Four great fighters, no doubt. But if you think either of those guys beats prime Roy Jones, here's some free advice: don't bet on boxing.
I don't analyze boxing based on statistics, record books, rumours, hearsay, ect. I go by what I see.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VG_Addict
Not everyone. He missed a couple like Michalczewski and Rocchigiani.
They missed him, and intentionally, because they would have gotten brought to school like everyone else.
People go on about how Roy never fought anybody and bring up The Tiger. Well, who did Dariusz fight? With the exception of Virgil Hill, he beat a bunch of nobodies and Roy Jones leftovers.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
Do not go on what you see, sometimes it is an illusion. :)
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Although I believe you are exaggerating about Hopkins, I also believe that you are touching on a possible answer to the question being posed. Hopkins was not born with all of that "natural" ability and learned his craft in the school of hard knocks. He's as much a modern day James Scott as he is a 21st century Archie Moore. And therein lies the difference imo. And its not just the physical difference. Hops style is built for longevity, Roys was not. But just as strongly imo is what rests above the shoulders. Hops attitude which was gained from his past is just as resilient as his skills.
And ftr fighters have been taking advantage of where the ref is forever. Many of Hops shots that are called cheap are actually smart. He had the anticipation of the break down to a science and rode the line on "protect yourself at all times." I dont think he's near the dirty fighter that he is accused of being. The same ring generalship and study he uses against fighters he also uses with the refs.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
Do not go on what you see, sometimes it is an illusion. :)
Illusions only work on people dumb enough to be taken in by them.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
Do not go on what you see, sometimes it is an illusion. :)
Illusions only work on people dumb enough to be taken in by them.
Yes you made my point for me. :)
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
I highly doubt Hopkins has never taken anything. The issue with that ripped fuel stuff was that something in was anabolic, at least that's what I understood, it was a legal supplement though. And as that link clearly says there wasn't comprehensive testing done.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Anyone remember 'mad' Hopkins got when Pascal asked him to take the test?
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
Call your own posts what they are then, you hardly come across as non partisan around here;) I think Inuit, like most hardcore fans, realizes how rampant drugs are in the sport. The fact is Roy never actually tested positive for a specifically banned substance, whether he did use them and got away with it is anyones guess, just as it is for practically every elite fighter of the past few decades. Mosley was on the BALCO mailing list and has since admitted to using, it's a little bit different.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
That is exactly what I just did. Not only that this has nothing to do with the question asked unless you are saying a stint with ripped fuel separates the two somehow. I call them like I see them to and have a pet peeve about revisionist history. Grebs my all time favourite fighter and I have no problem in saying that he is one of the dirtiest fighters that ever laced them up. I also have no problem saying Roy should have developed his jab whether he needed it or not because it may have extended his career in a more positive light. However I'm not going to accept anyone suggesting that he was a chronic cheater based on one episode with ripped fuel.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
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Originally Posted by
p4pking
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
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Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
Call your own posts what they are then, you hardly come across as non partisan around here;) I think Inuit, like most hardcore fans, realizes how rampant drugs are in the sport. The fact is Roy never actually tested positive for a specifically banned substance, whether he did use them and got away with it is anyones guess, just as it is for practically every elite fighter of the past few decades. Mosley was on the BALCO mailing list and has since admitted to using, it's a little bit different.
Check my posts history. I'm actually pretty non biased compared to internet fanboys and have gotten into arguments with them about their fighters, whether it be Ali, Tyson, Mayweather, Pacquiao, De la HOya, Mosley, Cotto, Garcia and yes Jones Jr. I sure as hell don't sugarcoat it. And Jones did test positive for banned substances, unless you're telling me anabolic steroids was legal back then.
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I think some of the fan boys r clouding the issue. Roy popped positive for PEDs. He then tried to say he took Ripped Fuel and that gave him a false positive. Investigation showed that it wasn't ripped fuel that put illegal substances in his body, it was illegal substances that put them there. Ripped Fuel was Roy's attempt to play dumb and excuse getting busted. Thanks.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Aside from different dna, different training, different intellect, safer focus, tighter style plays the hand he was dealt and collected closer to his chest,measured in for long haul.
Roy was about risk n reward, probably a freer training regime :-\, footloose fancy free, relaxed attitude so the body follows as did the relaxed guard and shoulders allowing him to get in his own zone faster,shoot from the hip,hitting during moves for more speed and percussion, more risks, more damage given and undertaken, risked his whole hand while playing them face up.
I love watching one and appreciate the other with reverence.
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Did everyone miss my post about the mistress that exposed naked pictures of Roy Jones?
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Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
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Originally Posted by
Master
Did everyone miss my post about the mistress that exposed naked pictures of Roy Jones?
I have been tempted to put that picture in with the Exxxicutioner thread but the question is currently what Bernard has, not the other way round ;D
