What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?

[Master]

Every fighter has a coulda, would a, should a, but Roy was the man to beat and it was the other top fighters that did not fight him.

[mikeeod]

Every fighter has a coulda, would a, should a, but Roy was the man to beat and it was the other top fighters that did not fight him.

I disagree with that statement. You can't force a guy to get in the ring with you. If he had missed a few guys only throughout his career, then I would agree with you. Great fighters test themselves and prove themselves against other great fighters. Just look at the competition that Whitaker, Tito, Oscar, Shane, Hopkins, Holyfield, Lewis...etc. took on throughout their career.

Roy isn't a bum and I don't think that he was scared of anyone. I do think that he is a smart man and was more interested in making the most money for the least amount of risk and not with securing his legacy. While I agree that the guy was a supreme talent and could have beaten or at least given trouble to any fighter in history, he was at fault for not making some of those big fights happen and his legacy will suffer because of it.

[Master]

Every fighter has a coulda, would a, should a, but Roy was the man to beat and it was the other top fighters that did not fight him.

I disagree with that statement. You can't force a guy to get in the ring with you. If he had missed a few guys only throughout his career, then I would agree with you. Great fighters test themselves and prove themselves against other great fighters. Just look at the competition that Whitaker, Tito, Oscar, Shane, Hopkins, Holyfield, Lewis...etc. took on throughout their career.

Roy isn't a bum and I don't think that he was scared of anyone. I do think that he is a smart man and was more interested in making the most money for the least amount of risk and not with securing his legacy. While I agree that the guy was a supreme talent and could have beaten or at least given trouble to any fighter in history, he was at fault for not making some of those big fights happen and his legacy will suffer because of it.

Roy beat B Hop and Toney who are great fighters, he unified all the belts at light heavy and the top fighters should come to him. I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.

[mikeeod]

Every fighter has a coulda, would a, should a, but Roy was the man to beat and it was the other top fighters that did not fight him.

I disagree with that statement. You can't force a guy to get in the ring with you. If he had missed a few guys only throughout his career, then I would agree with you. Great fighters test themselves and prove themselves against other great fighters. Just look at the competition that Whitaker, Tito, Oscar, Shane, Hopkins, Holyfield, Lewis...etc. took on throughout their career.

Roy isn't a bum and I don't think that he was scared of anyone. I do think that he is a smart man and was more interested in making the most money for the least amount of risk and not with securing his legacy. While I agree that the guy was a supreme talent and could have beaten or at least given trouble to any fighter in history, he was at fault for not making some of those big fights happen and his legacy will suffer because of it.

Roy beat B Hop and Toney who are great fighters, he unified all the belts at light heavy and the top fighters should come to him. I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.

The Hop that Roy beat in 1993 was green and no where near the fighter he became in the late 90's and early 2000's to mid 2000's. Hop was tough, but not an elite fighter at that point, just like Roy was no longer elite when Hop beat him in their rematch. Toney was Roy's best win, and only win over a p4p ranked (at the time of the fight) guy.

Roy also never unified all the belts at light heavy, Darius was the WBO and lineal champ. It is hard to say which weight was better for Roy, in my opinion, because he had a great win over Toney at 168, but overall weaker challengers to his title (Vinny Paz!!!). At 175 Roy didn't have that great, signature win over a top p4p guy, but he fought slightly better competition overall than what he had at 168.

I always thought 168 was the perfect weight for Roy, as he had one punch power and was a good sized 168 pounder. At 175 he was on the smaller side (until he fought Ruiz, then he looked HUGE!), and had enough power to shake and discourage guys, but not blow them out as consistently, although the Virgil Hill and Montell stoppages were impressive and spectacular.

[generalbulldog]

Speaking of Hopkins-Jones, did you know that in their 2nd fight Jones basically made 0 money? Yes, that's right, while Hopkins and Goldenboy made $3.5 million.

• Yahoo! Sports columnist Kevin Iole reported that Jones probably didn't make any money for the fight. He wrote:

The sad thing about the fight is that Jones won't make anything. Let's assume for a second that the 6,792 in the building actually paid for their seats (we know that's not true) and that the seats averaged $300 a ticket (a figure higher than reality). That would mean the gate was $2 million. If the expenses to rent the building and promote the fight were $1 million, that means $1 million is left. Now, let's figure it sold 100,000 pay-per-views at $49.95 apiece. That's about $5 million. They have to split 50 percent of that with the cable and satellite operators, so that leaves $2.498 million for themselves. Add the $1 million from the gate and the $2.498 million from the pay-per-view and you have $3.498 million in profit. Given that the contract called for the first $3.5 million in profit to go to Hopkins and Golden Boy, it's almost certain Jones fought for nothing.

Bernard Hopkins vs. Roy Jones Jr. (2nd meeting) - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

[Beanflicker]

I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.

Roy not a great LHW? Didn't he spend 7 or 8 years there just murdering everyone?

[Beanflicker]

Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.

When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.

Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.

[mikeeod]

Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.

When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.

Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.

Hahaha!!!! Awesome post! "Roy beats anyone ever and if u disagree with me because I made this statement without any supporting facts, I will get mad and wish I could do mean things to u!!!" Look, we get that u r a big fan or Roy's. Got it. The fact is, he didn't fight tough comp at 175 until he got to Tarver. I challenge u to review his record and find someone he beat at 175 who was as big as Tarver, and had the pedigree and boxing background that Tarver had. U lose all credibility when u say Roy could, without a doubt, beat killers at 175 like Foster, Moore, Spinks, and Ezzard Charles. U just can't support those comments and u look ridiculous throwing a fit in the chat room because not many other people agree with u.

[Beanflicker]

Bottom line, Roy beats ANYBODY IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING from 168-175.

When people actually pick guys like Bob Foster (and I love Bob Foster) to beat Roy, I wish I could spit in their faces.

Unfortunately Roy will forever be underrated because of the last 10 years he spend pissing away his legacy, but prime Roy Jones is untouchable.

Hahaha!!!! Awesome post! "Roy beats anyone ever and if u disagree with me because I made this statement without any supporting facts, I will get mad and wish I could do mean things to u!!!" Look, we get that u r a big fan or Roy's. Got it. The fact is, he didn't fight tough comp at 175 until he got to Tarver. I challenge u to review his record and find someone he beat at 175 who was as big as Tarver, and had the pedigree and boxing background that Tarver had. U lose all credibility when u say Roy could, without a doubt, beat killers at 175 like Foster, Moore, Spinks, and Ezzard Charles. U just can't support those comments and u look ridiculous throwing a fit in the chat room because not many other people agree with u.

Watch Roy Jones fight. Watch Foster fight. Watch Archie Moore fight. Watch Spinks fight.

Four great fighters, no doubt. But if you think either of those guys beats prime Roy Jones, here's some free advice: don't bet on boxing.

I don't analyze boxing based on statistics, record books, rumours, hearsay, ect. I go by what I see.

[VG_Addict]

I do not even consider Roy to be a great light heavy but would at super middle if he stayed long enough.

Roy not a great LHW? Didn't he spend 7 or 8 years there just murdering everyone?

Not everyone. He missed a couple like Michalczewski and Rocchigiani.

I also would have liked to have seen him at CW, against Juan Carlos Gomez and Jirov.

[ruthless rocco]

Roy didn't cheat to win.

He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.

He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.

He didn't need to.

His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.

[mikeeod]

Roy didn't cheat to win.

He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.

He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.

He didn't need to.

His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.

Roy didn't cheat to win? U know he got busted for using PEDs, rights?!? Not saying he is the only guy who cheated, just saying everyone does a little diet to get to the top.

[IamInuit]

Roy didn't cheat to win.

He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.

He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.

He didn't need to.

His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.

Although I believe you are exaggerating about Hopkins, I also believe that you are touching on a possible answer to the question being posed. Hopkins was not born with all of that "natural" ability and learned his craft in the school of hard knocks. He's as much a modern day James Scott as he is a 21st century Archie Moore. And therein lies the difference imo. And its not just the physical difference. Hops style is built for longevity, Roys was not. But just as strongly imo is what rests above the shoulders. Hops attitude which was gained from his past is just as resilient as his skills.

And ftr fighters have been taking advantage of where the ref is forever. Many of Hops shots that are called cheap are actually smart. He had the anticipation of the break down to a science and rode the line on "protect yourself at all times." I dont think he's near the dirty fighter that he is accused of being. The same ring generalship and study he uses against fighters he also uses with the refs.

[generalbulldog]

Roy didn't cheat to win.

He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.

He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.

He didn't need to.

His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.

Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.

Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia


Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.

[Beanflicker]

Not everyone. He missed a couple like Michalczewski and Rocchigiani.

They missed him, and intentionally, because they would have gotten brought to school like everyone else.

People go on about how Roy never fought anybody and bring up The Tiger. Well, who did Dariusz fight? With the exception of Virgil Hill, he beat a bunch of nobodies and Roy Jones leftovers.