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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif
This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0to%22&f=false
Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
Here's South Carolina:
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
This “Confederately correct” orthodoxy that the South fought for independence, not slavery, rankled a few southern realists, including the editors of the Richmond-based Southern Punch in 1864: ” ‘The people of the South,’ says a contemporary, ‘are not fighting for slavery but for independence.’ Let us look into this matter. It is an easy task, we think, to show up this new-fangled heresy — a heresy calculated to do us no good, for it cannot deceive foreign statesmen nor peoples, nor mislead any one here nor in Yankeeland. . . Our doctrine is this: WE ARE FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE THAT OUR GREAT AND NECESSARY DOMESTIC INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY SHALL BE PRESERVED, and for the preservation of other institutions of which slavery is the groundwork.”
After the war, a few ex-Confederates expressed similar disgust with the insistence that defense of slavery had not been the cause of the war. Confederate veteran Ed Baxter unashamedly told a reunion in 1889: “In a word, the South determined to fight for her property right in slaves; and in order to do so, it was necessary for her resist the change which the Abolitionists proposed to make under the Constitution of the United States as construed by them. . . Upon this issue the South went to war, I repeat that the people of the South had the right to fight for their property”. . . . Famed Confederate partisan leader Colonel John S. Mosby was equally forthright. “I’ve always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about,” he wrote a former comrade in 1894. “I’ve never heard of any other cause than slavery.”
Mosby, [South Carolina politician Robert Barnwell] Rhett, [Confederate President] Davis, [Vice President Alexander] Stephens, and other Confederates had no difficulty conceding what their descendants go to enormous lengths to deny: that the raison d’être of the Confederacy was the defense of slavery. It follows that, as the paramount symbol of the Confederate nation and as the flag of the armies that kept the nation alive, the St. Andrew’s cross is inherently associated with slavery. This conclusion is valid whether or not secession was constitutional. It is valid whether or not most southern soldiers consciously fought to preserve slavery. It is valid even though racism and segregation prevailed among nineteenth-century white northerners.
How people convince themselves that the Confederate flag represents freedom, not slavery - The Washington Post
And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.
Interesting read, cheers.
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Re: American confederate flag
Damn, NASCAR just banned, or is going to ban the battle flag from the infield at their events. Seems to me that will upset there hardcore southern fans. Do we need to give so much power to an image, it just seems a little out of hand. A number of Blacks I know told me they don't want the flag banned as they don't want that part of history to slip out of the conscience. Interesting take but that's what they say
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif
This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0to%22&f=false
Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
Here's South Carolina:
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
This “Confederately correct” orthodoxy that the South fought for independence, not slavery, rankled a few southern realists, including the editors of the Richmond-based Southern Punch in 1864: ” ‘The people of the South,’ says a contemporary, ‘are not fighting for slavery but for independence.’ Let us look into this matter. It is an easy task, we think, to show up this new-fangled heresy — a heresy calculated to do us no good, for it cannot deceive foreign statesmen nor peoples, nor mislead any one here nor in Yankeeland. . . Our doctrine is this: WE ARE FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE THAT OUR GREAT AND NECESSARY DOMESTIC INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY SHALL BE PRESERVED, and for the preservation of other institutions of which slavery is the groundwork.”
After the war, a few ex-Confederates expressed similar disgust with the insistence that defense of slavery had not been the cause of the war. Confederate veteran Ed Baxter unashamedly told a reunion in 1889: “In a word, the South determined to fight for her property right in slaves; and in order to do so, it was necessary for her resist the change which the Abolitionists proposed to make under the Constitution of the United States as construed by them. . . Upon this issue the South went to war, I repeat that the people of the South had the right to fight for their property”. . . . Famed Confederate partisan leader Colonel John S. Mosby was equally forthright. “I’ve always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about,” he wrote a former comrade in 1894. “I’ve never heard of any other cause than slavery.”
Mosby, [South Carolina politician Robert Barnwell] Rhett, [Confederate President] Davis, [Vice President Alexander] Stephens, and other Confederates had no difficulty conceding what their descendants go to enormous lengths to deny: that the raison d’être of the Confederacy was the defense of slavery. It follows that, as the paramount symbol of the Confederate nation and as the flag of the armies that kept the nation alive, the St. Andrew’s cross is inherently associated with slavery. This conclusion is valid whether or not secession was constitutional. It is valid whether or not most southern soldiers consciously fought to preserve slavery. It is valid even though racism and segregation prevailed among nineteenth-century white northerners.
How people convince themselves that the Confederate flag represents freedom, not slavery - The Washington Post
And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.
Interesting read, cheers.
Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
Just as the deceased Martin Luther king Jr cried out to white clergy, pastors ,ministers to unite as Christians so, to today few christian leaders have stood up.
Fox so called news who is excellent for calling the words...The WORDS of black men as racists, but can't seem to use the words of this hateful evil man as racist. Refuse to use the word evil or racist to describe this atrocity.
Those adjectives are reserved for liberals and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif
This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0to%22&f=false
Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
Here's South Carolina:
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
This “Confederately correct” orthodoxy that the South fought for independence, not slavery, rankled a few southern realists, including the editors of the Richmond-based Southern Punch in 1864: ” ‘The people of the South,’ says a contemporary, ‘are not fighting for slavery but for independence.’ Let us look into this matter. It is an easy task, we think, to show up this new-fangled heresy — a heresy calculated to do us no good, for it cannot deceive foreign statesmen nor peoples, nor mislead any one here nor in Yankeeland. . . Our doctrine is this: WE ARE FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE THAT OUR GREAT AND NECESSARY DOMESTIC INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY SHALL BE PRESERVED, and for the preservation of other institutions of which slavery is the groundwork.”
After the war, a few ex-Confederates expressed similar disgust with the insistence that defense of slavery had not been the cause of the war. Confederate veteran Ed Baxter unashamedly told a reunion in 1889: “In a word, the South determined to fight for her property right in slaves; and in order to do so, it was necessary for her resist the change which the Abolitionists proposed to make under the Constitution of the United States as construed by them. . . Upon this issue the South went to war, I repeat that the people of the South had the right to fight for their property”. . . . Famed Confederate partisan leader Colonel John S. Mosby was equally forthright. “I’ve always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about,” he wrote a former comrade in 1894. “I’ve never heard of any other cause than slavery.”
Mosby, [South Carolina politician Robert Barnwell] Rhett, [Confederate President] Davis, [Vice President Alexander] Stephens, and other Confederates had no difficulty conceding what their descendants go to enormous lengths to deny: that the raison d’être of the Confederacy was the defense of slavery. It follows that, as the paramount symbol of the Confederate nation and as the flag of the armies that kept the nation alive, the St. Andrew’s cross is inherently associated with slavery. This conclusion is valid whether or not secession was constitutional. It is valid whether or not most southern soldiers consciously fought to preserve slavery. It is valid even though racism and segregation prevailed among nineteenth-century white northerners.
How people convince themselves that the Confederate flag represents freedom, not slavery - The Washington Post
And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.
Interesting read, cheers.
Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
Just as the deceased Martin Luther king Jr cried out to white clergy, pastors ,ministers to unite as Christians so, to today few christian leaders have stood up.
Fox so called news who is excellent for calling the words...The WORDS of black men as racists, but can't seem to use the words of this hateful evil man as racist. Refuse to use the word evil or racist to describe this atrocity.
Those adjectives are reserved for liberals and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
Interesting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst. I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles. I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.
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Re: American confederate flag
I am a bit confused does the confederate flag, belong to racists or southern pride or is it
being used as a weapon of political correctness.
Why is it offensive to fly the flag, trouble is all of a sudden it seems to be demonized it's
a flag of the southern states is it not.:confused:
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Re: American confederate flag
This is a bullshit issue. You can take down the flag tomorrow but people will still be poor. Bankers will still be stealing money from the poor working class. So the media instead of talking about these problems. Are saying hey look over here see this flag. We fall for this bullshit every fucking time.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Alrighty :rolleyes:
#1 Slaves states fought FOR the Union....were they self loathing slave states?
#2 Slave states exempted from the Emancipation Proclamation: Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware, Tennessee, and West Virginia. Why on Earth if slavery was such a blight on the nation AND reason for a horrible and destructive war, why would states be EXEMPTED from freeing slaves?
#3 Civil War 4/12/1861 to 6/22/1865....during which time period the Emancipation Proclamation occurred 1/1/1863...fighting continued...after the treaty was signed at Appomattox slavery was still in force. December 18, 1865 is when William H. Seward announced the adoption of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution. So the Civil War started and ended before slavery was abolished.
But....but....
A couple of posts previously you were claiming :
January 1, 1863 the Emancipation freed 100% of the slaves in Confederate states, in 1864 Confederate states themselves were abandoning slavery.....in 1865 the Union banned slavery.
And I'm saying that wasn't the case. So again you're making my argument for me. Well done Woti.
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Re: American confederate flag
Anybody who still thinks the Confederate states didn't start the civil war over slavery :
The Confederate Cause in the Words of Its Leaders - The Atlantic
And anybody who thinks white supremacy ended in the south in 1865 or that discrimination against black people ended in America even by 1965 read this, even if you just read the first bit about Clyde Ross.
The Case for Reparations - The Atlantic
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Re: American confederate flag
The war lasted until 1865 begging the question: If the slaves were already free in the South then why keep fighting???
Also the overwhelming majority of Confederacy did NOT own slaves....so what were THOSE people fighting for?
....oh and don't bother responding I'll NOT debate the War Between The States with a fucking fool such as yourself, CUNT!
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Re: American confederate flag
Imagine if we they had a Civil War rematch, the South would win 1st round knockout. The North has gotten soft with their restrictive gun laws!
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The war lasted until 1865 begging the question: If the slaves were already free in the South then why keep fighting???
Also the overwhelming majority of Confederacy did NOT own slaves....so what were THOSE people fighting for?
....oh and don't bother responding I'll NOT debate the War Between The States with a fucking fool such as yourself, CUNT!
There were still slaves in the Confederate states until 1865.
Ans while the majority of people fighting for the Confederate cause didn't own slaves themselves slaves were the main engine of the southern economy. It's like a coal mine in Kentucky or a military base in some town. All the businesses around the mine/base make their money from the people working at the mine/base. Close the mine and the local economy collapses. End slavery and the southern economy collapses, as the Confederate states themselves admitted in their declarations of secession.
All those people were fighting for their livelihoods Lyle. When they lost the war their economy did collapse and it still hasn't recovered.
A major finding of the research into the economic dynamics of the slave system was to demonstrate that the rise in the value of slaves was not based upon unfounded speculation. Slave labor was the foundation of a prosperous economic system in the South. To illustrate just how important slaves were to that prosperity, Gerald Gunderson (1974) estimated what fraction of the income of a white person living in the South of 1860 was derived from the earnings of slaves. Table 1 presents Gunderson’s estimates. In the seven states where most of the cotton was grown, almost one-half the population were slaves, and they accounted for 31 percent of white people’s income; for all 11 Confederate States, slaves represented 38 percent of the population and contributed 23 percent of whites’ income. Small wonder that Southerners — even those who did not own slaves — viewed any attempt by the federal government to limit the rights of slaveowners over their property as a potentially catastrophic threat to their entire economic system. By itself, the South’s economic investment in slavery could easily explain the willingness of Southerners to risk war when faced with what they viewed as a serious threat to their “peculiar institution” after the electoral victories of the Republican Party and President Abraham Lincoln the fall of 1860.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-econ...the-civil-war/
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Re: American confederate flag
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Re: American confederate flag
Everyone knows the confederates were led by vampires and Lincoln was the hero.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I think this particular fire is already pretty hot.
Klan plans Confederate flag rally in South Carolina
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Re: American confederate flag
Copying from an online source Kirkland? I'm sorry, that's not allowed......just holding you to your own asinine standard jackass.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Everyone knows the confederates were led by vampires and Lincoln was the hero.
Yes! And finally Magic Johnson freed the slaves by beating Larry Bird in a 1v1!
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
MSNBC asked this question of everyone on Facebook (and I quote) "Should the KKK have the right to free speech?"
Fuck the white sheet wearing bastards and everything they believe in, but anytime, I mean ANY time someone says "Should they have the right to free speech?" that question should be answered in the affirmative regardless of how vile and/or idiotic the group or individual may be. Westboro Baptist Church, they can speak freely too, the crazy ass Code Pink people, they speak freely too.....our Founding Fathers had this thought about the free exchange of ideas, open debates, and ....allowing people to freely out themselves as idiots as many idiots are want to do anyway.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif
This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.
Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.
Interesting read, cheers.
Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
Interesting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.
I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?
I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?
Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?
If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?
The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.
I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom- they ended it- with finances offered- -The USA went to war over it. Serious what God backs a nation like that?
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.
As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."
I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.
The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:
A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.
A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?:mad:
What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif
This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.
Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.
Interesting read, cheers.
Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
Interesting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.
I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?
I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?
Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?
If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words are is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?
The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.
I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.
As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."
I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.
The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:
A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.
A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?:mad:
What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?
No argument here. I would not want to be living under it and I'm glad the stars and bars won out. I just look at it as a part of a history of a tragic war we once had.
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States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.
The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.
Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.
The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.
Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?
If it's private property,a person should have the right to wave any flag they choose.
I have a cousin who is the only one.....within blocks to have the American flag on his front porch.
Right next to the Green Bay Packers flag!
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Re: American confederate flag
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Copying from an online source Kirkland? I'm sorry, that's not allowed......just holding you to your own asinine standard jackass.
Linking to something online Lyle, not copying it and pretending I thought of it myself which is what you did.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.
The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.
Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?
How many people need to see the flag of slavery , of treason and of terrorism to be offensive before the rest of you will respect their right not to have to live under it?
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.
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Re: American confederate flag
Kirkland, I'm not debating you. Slaves of the Confederacy were freed in 1863 under the Emancipation Proclamation...the war continued on for 2 more years. 2 more years where border states STILL had slavery. Again, this isn't a debate this is a fucking history lesson you twat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
Well then you'd be able to tell your neighbor was an out and proud jackass, whom you'd want as little contact with as possible. A KKK flag? Is there such a thing???
Here's the deal with Free Speech...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9cYuQonbXs
...you either believe in it or you don't
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.
In favor of censorship by a totalitarian government? Then allow them to fly whatever flag they wish to!
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
The what if factor....
then would have no probable end.
What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?
What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board
Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.
President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.
Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.
Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and hateful people will still exist.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
The what if factor....
then would have no probable end.
What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?
What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board
Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.
President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.
Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.
Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and
hateful people will still exist.
Why stoke the fires of hate needlessly, though? All in the name of freedom of speech? That's what's wrong with society. We take these damn proclamations literally and take the thinking away from the lawmakers. What? So-and-so is flying an old Nazi swastika flag in his backyard in a Jewish neighborhood, in an obvious attempt to provoke people and continue promoting hate? Well... let's just drop the ol' Constitutional 1st Amendment bag over it and everything will be fine. Next case.
Personally... I respect what those great men wrote back in the day... like the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution. In both cases, they were sorely needed. But society today uses those as a crutch to avoid tackling problems head on. Let's just quote these 200-year old documents and go on about our day... thank you very much.
Everybody and their brother can distinguish between someone expressing him/herself freely about politics, the government, religion, the economy, and other controversial issues........ and someone who is spewing hate for the sake of hate. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, skinheads, black militant groups.... etc, etc. Why continue to pretend that what they do is ok?? Is it a little more trouble to split hairs and decide who has freedom of expression and who doesn't? Damn right it is. That's why God gave people brains. A chimpanzee could quote and parrot old documents that may or may not be applicable to these times.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.
Where would you draw the line on that though? Isn't the British flag similar in that it can conjure up images of war, corruption, and inequality which are of course extremely distressing and scary things? Or how about the US flag to native Indians put on reservations? Or Palestinians who have to see the Israeli flag? I don't see anyone calling to ban those. Personally, I believe you should have whatever flag you like and that flag should be a reflection of who you are. If it is something abhorrent like a Nazi flag, then that is pretty obvious, but it should be a choice. As long as the Nazi is a peaceful one who doesn't impose upon others, then it is really none of my business. The same for anyone who wants to display the confederate flag or the Union Jack. You have to accept that different people see different things and they will express themselves accordingly. I think flags are silly and so you won't see me with one, but that is my choice too.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.
Where would you draw the line on that though? Isn't the British flag similar in that it can conjure up images of war, corruption, and inequality which are of course extremely distressing and scary things? Or how about the US flag to native Indians put on reservations? Or Palestinians who have to see the Israeli flag? I don't see anyone calling to ban those. Personally, I believe you should have whatever flag you like and that flag should be a reflection of who you are. If it is something abhorrent like a Nazi flag, then that is pretty obvious, but it should be a choice. As long as the Nazi is a peaceful one who doesn't impose upon others, then it is really none of my business. The same for anyone who wants to display the confederate flag or the Union Jack. You have to accept that different people see different things and they will express themselves accordingly. I think flags are silly and so you won't see me with one, but that is my choice too.
Peaceful Nazi seems like a contradiction in words.
You would need someone to complain because they feel intimidated, then an authority to inquire about the persons intention who put the flag up and if it is found they did it maliciously they would be asked to take it down.
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Re: American confederate flag
I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.
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Re: American confederate flag
It's gotten ridiculous. I just read they took reruns of Dukes of Hazzard off the TV because of the General Lee. What a fucking joke.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.
I burn the South Korean flag everyday in protest of its genocide of Christians, marching them off that cliff and what not.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.
I burn the South Korean flag everyday in protest of its genocide of Christians, marching them off that cliff and what not.
Eh, Walrus? ;D
I don't mind the Korean flag as it is a badge of honour against oppression, which you cannot say about the more violent nations in this world. I'm not a flag person, but the SK flag is one of the least offensive. At least the way I see it anyway.
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Re: American confederate flag
Yes, you also defend the Nazi flag. Thank God for Winston.
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Re: American confederate flag
;D
Not at all. I am defending the right to freedom of speech which is something you should be into. I do not like flags of any sort. Some are simply more tolerable than others. Silly things really.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
It's gotten ridiculous. I just read they took reruns of Dukes of Hazzard off the TV because of the General Lee. What a fucking joke.
Hogan's Heroes is still running even though it has Nazis and Swastikas everywhere.
Coexist bumper stickers piss me off...but somehow some way I cope without murdering anyone
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?
Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?
These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......
The what if factor....
then would have no probable end.
What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?
What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board
Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.
President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.
Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.
Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and
hateful people will still exist.
Why stoke the fires of hate needlessly, though? All in the name of freedom of speech? That's what's wrong with society. We take these damn proclamations literally and take the thinking away from the lawmakers. What? So-and-so is flying an old Nazi swastika flag in his backyard in a Jewish neighborhood, in an obvious attempt to provoke people and continue promoting hate? Well... let's just drop the ol' Constitutional 1st Amendment bag over it and everything will be fine. Next case.
Personally... I respect what those great men wrote back in the day... like the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution. In both cases, they were sorely needed. But society today uses those as a crutch to avoid tackling problems head on. Let's just quote these 200-year old documents and go on about our day... thank you very much.
Everybody and their brother can distinguish between someone expressing him/herself freely about politics, the government, religion, the economy, and other controversial issues........ and someone who is spewing hate for the sake of hate. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, skinheads, black militant groups.... etc, etc. Why continue to pretend that what they do is ok?? Is it a little more trouble to split hairs and decide who has freedom of expression and who doesn't? Damn right it is. That's why God gave people brains. A chimpanzee could quote and parrot old documents that may or may not be applicable to these times.
Well said. I'm not defending ones right to act a fool or stoke the flames. Just trying to separate the symbols of hatred from the people who will hate regardless.
Again, well said: I concur.
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Re: American confederate flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
;D
I do not like flags of any sort. Some are simply more tolerable than others. Silly things really.
Unless it's flag with a big giant vagina on it.
Then I guess some would banter how the cootchie is portrayed. If its a hairy pussy --it must be an un-hygenical pussy, or a bald pussy, then must be a child molester's choice.
