Did the Calzaghe fight ruin Jeff Lacy?

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

This can be said about many fighters.

You could ask did Pavlik ruin Miranda or Zertuche? They were not the same after running into him.

Physical beatings you can recover from, but certain mindsets will never recover from a bad loss. It will always be on the back of their mind. When a fighter is undefeated, they feel invulnerable. Fighters can handle points losses usually fine. KO losses or beatings shows a fighter how human they are and they can lose their fire that helped elevate them in the first place.

Joe took away Lacy's fire. The mystique he once had for himself was gone and he knew he had limitations. His injury took more away from him, so he has fallen quite far.

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Neither Miranda or Zertuche took the hammering Lacy took. There is a marked difference pre and post Calzaghe, Miranda looks the same and would lose to Abrahams Pavlik defeat or not. Im not sure Manfredo would take Lacy to a SD pre Calzaghe, do you?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Absolutley, when that fight finished so did Lacy.
He lost ever bit of mental strength and fortitude that he had built.

He was actually a gutsy fighter, he kept coming after Calzaghe, he never stopped trying, but the loss was a complete and uter domination.

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I disagree completely about Lacy losing all his mental strenght and fortidude.


Apart from his physical strength pretty much all Lacy has is his heart and will to win.

I have to say, I'm a big Jeff Lacy fan, in my mind no boxer gives his all more than Jeff Lacy.

To get beat for every minute of every round like he did against Joe Calzaghe but to keep fighting to the very end, to fight with a torn rotator cuff from the second round against Tyspko and pull out a win and to come back from being rocked several times against Mendoza to dig deep and make sure he won the final round and therefore the fight shows the heart and mental strength of a true champion imo.

Lacy is limited technically, and his power was overratted but for heart, determination, dedication to the sport and sheer iron will Lacy is possibly America's best fighter imo.

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I already Repped you, and this post hits it right on the head 10000% not to mention Lacy dosent complain AT ALL!!!!

Mendoza karate chopped Lacy at least 20X to the back of the head

Mendoza after being rocked and stumbling landed a 3 punch combo to Lacys crouch, Jeff didnt complain

The only time I saw Lacy complain is when he tagged Mendoza and he flew backwards into the ropes and richoched off of Jeff and hit the floor.. The ref called it a slip when the ropes were the only thing holding up Mendoza

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

This can be said about many fighters.

You could ask did Pavlik ruin Miranda or Zertuche? They were not the same after running into him.

Physical beatings you can recover from, but certain mindsets will never recover from a bad loss. It will always be on the back of their mind. When a fighter is undefeated, they feel invulnerable. Fighters can handle points losses usually fine. KO losses or beatings shows a fighter how human they are and they can lose their fire that helped elevate them in the first place.

Joe took away Lacy's fire. The mystique he once had for himself was gone and he knew he had limitations. His injury took more away from him, so he has fallen quite far.

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Neither Miranda or Zertuche took the hammering Lacy took. There is a marked difference pre and post Calzaghe, Miranda looks the same and would lose to Abrahams Pavlik defeat or not. Im not sure Manfredo would take Lacy to a SD pre Calzaghe, do you?

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Well Miranda was beaten from ringpost to ringpost for 7 rounds. He absorbed huge punishment from a good puncher. Zertuche also absorbed big punches on a consistent basis for even longer. Miranda could take Abraham's shots in the first fight, he could not in the second one. Zertuche was totally shot after Pavlik and could not even be competative against a much lesser opponent than Pavlik after Pavlik dealt with him.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather have Joe tee off on me for 12 rounds, than have Pavlik tee off on me for 7.

I also agree however, that Joe took something away from Lacy that fight. Lacy had a very rough go of it that fight.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

This can be said about many fighters.

You could ask did Pavlik ruin Miranda or Zertuche? They were not the same after running into him.

Physical beatings you can recover from, but certain mindsets will never recover from a bad loss. It will always be on the back of their mind. When a fighter is undefeated, they feel invulnerable. Fighters can handle points losses usually fine. KO losses or beatings shows a fighter how human they are and they can lose their fire that helped elevate them in the first place.

Joe took away Lacy's fire. The mystique he once had for himself was gone and he knew he had limitations. His injury took more away from him, so he has fallen quite far.

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Neither Miranda or Zertuche took the hammering Lacy took. There is a marked difference pre and post Calzaghe, Miranda looks the same and would lose to Abrahams Pavlik defeat or not. Im not sure Manfredo would take Lacy to a SD pre Calzaghe, do you?

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Well Miranda was beaten from ringpost to ringpost for 7 rounds. He absorbed huge punishment from a good puncher. Zertuche also absorbed big punches on a consistent basis for even longer. Miranda could take Abraham's shots in the first fight, he could not in the second one. Zertuche was totally shot after Pavlik and could not even be competative against a much lesser opponent than Pavlik after Pavlik dealt with him.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather have Joe tee off on me for 12 rounds, than have Pavlik tee off on me for 7.

I also agree however, that Joe took something away from Lacy that fight. Lacy had a very rough go of it that fight.

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You cannot seriously be saying that Miranda took more punishment in the Pavlik fight than Lacy did vs Calzaghe!

Calzaghe has far faster hands far better footwork and doesnt hit as hard so you are getting punched to the brink but not quite done then next round same thing. Pavlik at 160lbs beats you up the its over its not prolonged plus fighter will always feel they have a chance against such a limited plodder so they gain confidence. Lacy was beat every second of every round.

I think Miranda was ruined by Abraham, Pavlik just finished his career off.

Jeff Lacy was never taught to BOX and was never taught how to set up his left hook properly. Had Lacy used more combinations and had faster handspeed or better timing then his career would have been salvaged after the Calzaghe fight. I think he just spent too much time in the amateurs

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Neither Miranda or Zertuche took the hammering Lacy took. There is a marked difference pre and post Calzaghe, Miranda looks the same and would lose to Abrahams Pavlik defeat or not. Im not sure Manfredo would take Lacy to a SD pre Calzaghe, do you?

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Well Miranda was beaten from ringpost to ringpost for 7 rounds. He absorbed huge punishment from a good puncher. Zertuche also absorbed big punches on a consistent basis for even longer. Miranda could take Abraham's shots in the first fight, he could not in the second one. Zertuche was totally shot after Pavlik and could not even be competative against a much lesser opponent than Pavlik after Pavlik dealt with him.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather have Joe tee off on me for 12 rounds, than have Pavlik tee off on me for 7.

I also agree however, that Joe took something away from Lacy that fight. Lacy had a very rough go of it that fight.

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You cannot seriously be saying that Miranda took more punishment in the Pavlik fight than Lacy did vs Calzaghe!

Calzaghe has far faster hands far better footwork and doesnt hit as hard so you are getting punched to the brink but not quite done then next round same thing. Pavlik at 160lbs beats you up the its over its not prolonged plus fighter will always feel they have a chance against such a limited plodder so they gain confidence. Lacy was beat every second of every round.

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There you go again. Calling Pavlik a limited Plodder. I guess that is an upgrade from bum like you called him before.

And Calzaghe nuthuggers wonder why he is so disliked. It is not Joe, but people like you.

...it's the same with Hatton and Haye

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Lacy has always been shit and overhyped.

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To quote Mike Tyson : "...you probably shouldn't talk any more."

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

Well Miranda was beaten from ringpost to ringpost for 7 rounds. He absorbed huge punishment from a good puncher. Zertuche also absorbed big punches on a consistent basis for even longer. Miranda could take Abraham's shots in the first fight, he could not in the second one. Zertuche was totally shot after Pavlik and could not even be competative against a much lesser opponent than Pavlik after Pavlik dealt with him.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather have Joe tee off on me for 12 rounds, than have Pavlik tee off on me for 7.

I also agree however, that Joe took something away from Lacy that fight. Lacy had a very rough go of it that fight.

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You cannot seriously be saying that Miranda took more punishment in the Pavlik fight than Lacy did vs Calzaghe!

Calzaghe has far faster hands far better footwork and doesnt hit as hard so you are getting punched to the brink but not quite done then next round same thing. Pavlik at 160lbs beats you up the its over its not prolonged plus fighter will always feel they have a chance against such a limited plodder so they gain confidence. Lacy was beat every second of every round.

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There you go again. Calling Pavlik a limited Plodder. I guess that is an upgrade from bum like you called him before.

And Calzaghe nuthuggers wonder why he is so disliked. It is not Joe, but people like you.

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It goes both ways. You can call Calzaghe a feather fisted pitter patter and say that Pavlik hitting you for 7 rounds is a lot worse then bearing Calzaghe or 12. Lacy was worn down but never really hurt like he was last night against Calzaghe. Miranda was beaten into a slump on the ropes.

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

You cannot seriously be saying that Miranda took more punishment in the Pavlik fight than Lacy did vs Calzaghe!

Calzaghe has far faster hands far better footwork and doesnt hit as hard so you are getting punched to the brink but not quite done then next round same thing. Pavlik at 160lbs beats you up the its over its not prolonged plus fighter will always feel they have a chance against such a limited plodder so they gain confidence. Lacy was beat every second of every round.

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There you go again. Calling Pavlik a limited Plodder. I guess that is an upgrade from bum like you called him before.

And Calzaghe nuthuggers wonder why he is so disliked. It is not Joe, but people like you.

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It goes both ways. You can call Calzaghe a feather fisted pitter patter and say that Pavlik hitting you for 7 rounds is a lot worse then bearing Calzaghe or 12. Lacy was worn down but never really hurt like he was last night against Calzaghe. Miranda was beaten into a slump on the ropes.

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Never in here will you find I called Joe featherfisted or a slapper. What I said was I would rather endure Joe in the ring for 12 rounds than pavlik for 7.

Pavlik just seems to really hurt people when he unloads. Joe does not have his type of power. I was just stating the obvious as I see it. Marcus stated earlier that Miranda did not take a beating like Lacy did. I beg to differ on that.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

There you go again. Calling Pavlik a limited Plodder. I guess that is an upgrade from bum like you called him before.

And Calzaghe nuthuggers wonder why he is so disliked. It is not Joe, but people like you.

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It goes both ways. You can call Calzaghe a feather fisted pitter patter and say that Pavlik hitting you for 7 rounds is a lot worse then bearing Calzaghe or 12. Lacy was worn down but never really hurt like he was last night against Calzaghe. Miranda was beaten into a slump on the ropes.

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Never in here will you find I called Joe featherfisted or a slapper. What I said was I would rather endure Joe in the ring for 12 rounds than pavlik for 7.

Pavlik just seems to really hurt people when he unloads. Joe does not have his type of power. I was just stating the obvious as I see it. Marcus stated earlier that Miranda did not take a beating like Lacy did. I beg to differ on that.

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I agree. I'm just saying, if he wants to point out what he thinks are weaknesses, yet he is talking about damage, it's just maddening really. Of course Miranda took a worse beating. You certainly can't distinguish Lacy's as being clearly worse in terms of damage.

Pavlik whooping Miranda doesn't really compare with Cazlaghe's masterclass shellacking exhibition dished out to Lacy. One was a NON title fight on a Jermain Taylor UNDERCARD, the other was a UNIFICATION fight between the TWO premier supermiddles at the time.

It is all about context.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Pavlik whooping Miranda doesn't really compare with Cazlaghe's masterclass shellacking exhibition dished out to Lacy. One was a NON title fight on a Jermain Taylor UNDERCARD, the other was a UNIFICATION fight between the TWO premier supermiddles at the time.

It is all about context.

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Yeah I agree but in terms of physical damage dished out, I don't think there's much of a difference.

Yeah but the mental beating was far worse for Lacy, obvioulsy

(I haven't read all the thread.. or properly, sorry)

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Absolutley, when that fight finished so did Lacy.
He lost ever bit of mental strength and fortitude that he had built.

He was actually a gutsy fighter, he kept coming after Calzaghe, he never stopped trying, but the loss was a complete and uter domination.

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I disagree completely about Lacy losing all his mental strenght and fortidude.


Apart from his physical strength pretty much all Lacy has is his heart and will to win.

I have to say, I'm a big Jeff Lacy fan, in my mind no boxer gives his all more than Jeff Lacy.

To get beat for every minute of every round like he did against Joe Calzaghe but to keep fighting to the very end, to fight with a torn rotator cuff from the second round against Tyspko and pull out a win and to come back from being rocked several times against Mendoza to dig deep and make sure he won the final round and therefore the fight shows the heart and mental strength of a true champion imo.

Lacy is limited technically, and his power was overratted but for heart, determination, dedication to the sport and sheer iron will Lacy is possibly America's best fighter imo.

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This is a good post in all seriousness, totally agree. If anything last night I was impressed by the guts of Lacy. Mendoza can complain all he wants but when it counted Lacy wanted it more. He won the fight on pure guts.

With Lacy its just another case of fans falling in love with a puncher but like you say his power has always been overrated too. He's more of a clubbing type puncher, he never got guys out early or with one big punch.

And the technical flaws defensively are really the problem. Outside he's obviously not comfortable and inside (you can see this big time as far back as even the Rubin Williams fight) he doesn't keep his hands up well enough, he keeps the left too low which is ok I guess on the outside but not the inside when you're not really moving your head.

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One thing I noticed in his last fight is I didn't see Birmingham in his corner. That kind of made things weird.

But he looked pretty good when he was double jabbing to the right hand. And then he started winging shots. I don't know what happened. First few times he looked good, then after eh got stunned he started winging.

I think the shoulder injury has messed him up though. Did he even really throw a left hook with authority last night?

He still has guts and heart. But he really needs to learn to use his jab more and have confidence in that left hook again