Hamed/Marquez

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

How many times has JMM been floored ? he's only been floored against world class fighters like the best P4P fighter in the world. And against MAB which was desperation shot, and against Freddie Norwood. He may of been knocked down more in his early fights. But i haven't seen them.

Kevin Kelley had a pretty weak chin yet he was able to slug it out with Naseem Hamed, and deck Naseem Hamed 3 times. Juan Manuel Marquez may not have a granite chin like Marvin Hagler, but his recovery powers are excellent.

Naseem Hamed may knock down JMM but he wouldn't keep him there, and JMM would make Naseem Hamed look stupid in the ring, with his counter punching style. Naseem Hamed would look like a drunken ballerina.

---

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about. ;)

---

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

---

Not really a COMPLETE distortion.

So we'll say.. anyone he HURT lost. Fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

VD i remember watching a Naseem Hamed fight where he tackled a fighter to the ground and used his knees or something ? ? i watched it when i was very young and i can't remember the fighters name, do you remember it ?

I also remember Manuel Medina being knocked down a few times against Naseem Hamed, yet he survived until the 11th round. And gave Naseem Hamed a very good argument.

---

That's because Naz had the flu. Fact.

---

What about the other examples VD gave you ? and thanks VD it was the Cesar Soto fight i remember now, its just been years since i've seen it.

---

The other examples got knocked the fuck out.. or schooled. Fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

So that's six definite knockdowns. Proves my point. No-one survived Naz once he hurt you. Fact.

Nearly every knockdown Hamed suffered was down to his balance. You know that bad balance you were talking about. ;)

---

Come on now. That's a complete distortion of the truth. He stunned Cesar Soto early. Soto went 12 with him. He had Paul Ingle down and hurt in the 1st. Ingle made it all the way to the 11th. And he had Kevin Kelly hurt in the 2nd. Kelly came back and floored him one more time. And those are straight facts.

---

Not really a COMPLETE distortion.

So we'll say.. anyone he HURT lost. Fact.

---

Works for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

That's because Naz had the flu. Fact.

---

What about the other examples VD gave you ? and thanks VD it was the Cesar Soto fight i remember now, its just been years since i've seen it.

---

The other examples got knocked the fuck out.. or schooled. Fact.

---

In my mind Naseem Hamed's wild punches would never catch a technician like JMM, and Naseem Hamed's style is also made for JMM's counter punching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

What about the other examples VD gave you ? and thanks VD it was the Cesar Soto fight i remember now, its just been years since i've seen it.

---

The other examples got knocked the fuck out.. or schooled. Fact.

---

In my mind Naseem Hamed's wild punches would never catch a technician like JMM, and Naseem Hamed's style is also made for JMM's counter punching.

---

I agree with ICB on this one. Marquez would have owned Naz. Naz would never have been able to connect with those wild shots and Marquez would have put the Prince on his ass repeatedly.

Honestly dont think Hamed was too eager to mix it up with under the radar Marquez.I really could see Marquez cutting Hamed down and using Hameds glaring balance probs to beat him.JMM has always been a crisp pin point hitter,could come off long range to short shots close in a blink.At that time,he was also not as forward charging as he is now,doing a just bit more timed counter punching :fight:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rene69

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

---

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right? ;)

---

Sorry, didn't go back to read THE BOXING ALMANAC. Bottom line is that Hamed ducked Marquez plain and simple. And the only reason he(Hamed) fought Barrera who was a weight division lower...was because Barrera looked to be on the down side after the Morales fight and looked beatable. It's amazing how Hamed was psychologically
destroyed and ruined after just one fight. Marquez would have probably stopped him if they had fought.

Marquez was Hamed's Mando. Hamed chased after the fighter he thought would have been the easier opponent in Barrera. Barrera showed him otherwise though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chino

Quote:

---

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

---

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

---

Good point.

JMM was the #1 challenger for the WBO for sometime.
Naz never gave him a shot and clearly ducked him.

Once and only after JMM had lost to Norwood did Naz offer to fight JMM.
JMM turned down the offer.


It's that simple.

Regardless of who ducked who.

I can say it with ease that JMM would have boxed circles around Naz then and now. With Ingle or without Ingle, with allah or without allah.

JMM today clearly stands head and shoulders above Naz as far as greatness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fan johnny

Juan Manuel Márquez - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Marquez turned down Hamed (fact) it was first reported that he wasn't offered enough money but in an interview (later) he said he wasn't given enough time to prepare. So how can he be waiting two years to get this fight and then say its not enough time or money and then turn around and fight Jiminez for less. Would you say that's ducking a fight or not?

"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." (cluck.. cluck..)

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics.

"They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

Pacquiao put about $30,000 in his pocket the first time he met MAB.

---

Anyone can type in Wikipedia all that stuff is often moved/changed. I contribute to the boxing section and also to the one on BoxRec.

I've often had things that I typed altered and changed so not everything you read on there is the 100% true. Remember these things are put together by everyday people...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RozzySean

Remember, Marquez was the odd man out for a long time. Morales and Barrera were the bigger names and bigger draws. I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the loss to Freddie Norwood took JMM out of the Naz sweepstakes. There is a better case that Naz should have fought Morales. That would have been a bigger draw and by the time Naz fought Barrera, Morales had wins over Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Chacon, McCullough, Kelly, Chi, and Barrera. He also had the WBC belt at FW and Barrera was just coming up from 122. In 2000-2001, Morales would have been the biggest fight out there for him, but he fought Barrera instead. If Naz ducked anybody, he ducked Morales.

---

exaclty!

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

About Hamed, he was screwd no matter who he fought, mab,eric or jmm. They would of all owned him.

---

WTF, how does JMM supposedlyy ducking pac come into this ??

It's probably that none ducked the other. Thats what boxers managers do! It's very rare you will find a boxer who is frightened of fighting anyone or wants to duck anyone. Tyson, Liston and prime Foreman to me were the main fighters who other fighters were genuinely frightened of fighting. All boxers will have nerves before a fight but not genuine fear like they all brought to the game.

As for the outcome though I think Marquez kicks Hamed's ass. As would Morales and as Barrera did. Don't think I even need to mention Pac!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rene69

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rene69

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

---

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right? ;)

---

Sorry, didn't go back to read THE BOXING ALMANAC. Bottom line is that Hamed ducked Marquez plain and simple. And the only reason he(Hamed) fought Barrera who was a weight division lower...was because Barrera looked to be on the down side after the Morales fight and looked beatable. It's amazing how Hamed was psychologically
destroyed and ruined after just one fight. Marquez would have probably stopped him if they had fought.

---

Right. And the OTHER bottom line is that Marquez TURNED DOWN the chance to fight Naz in 2000.

Marquez admits it. Beristain admits it.

So what we have is - Naz ducked a fighter that REFUSED to fight him :beat: