Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
People aren't getting at Cotto for fighting Manny because he doesn't have a history of fighting people smaller than himself. Mayweather has been criticised for this ( and also "dodging" certain welterweights ) and got it again when he signed to fight JMM, unfairly in my opinion.
Manny beats Cotto quite easily, then Floyd beats Manny.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
ICB
No i wouldn't Miguel Cotto is still very much the same fighter, but i think the excuses above are valied.
Because pretty much everyone agrees ODLH was a weight drained punchbag, and alot of fighters would of beaten that version of ODLH.
And i think everyone agrees Ricky Hatton hasn't been the same since Kostya Tszyu fight, and people have been saying that even before the Manny Pacquiao fight.
Carlos Quintana may not be as good as Manny Pacquiao, but he is a slick fighter with good movement. Yet Miguel Cotto soon caught up to him.
I haven't seen any performance from Manny Pacquiao that leads me to believe, he would stand a chance against Miguel Cotto or Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Pacster would have beat Hatton at any time of Hatton's career. Watch the Magee fight.
Oscar was a shriveled mess, yes, but that doesn't mean any fighter would have slaughtered him the way Pacster did.
You're the excuses king, ICB, don't try and make out you wont be making excuses. ;)
Didn't i just say Manny Pacquiao would of beaten any version of Ricky Hatton ? but you can't just base that on one performance.
ODLH was rubbish in that fight any top 147 pound fighter, would of beaten ODLH like a red headed step child. ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since 2001 agaisnt Arturo Gatti, and the last time he was below 146 was in 1997 against Miguel Angel Gonzalez, if that isn't proof enough i don't know what is.
You know it and i know it, don't try and make out that Manny Pacquiao, is the only fighter that would of beaten a weight drained ODLH like that.
Because that is reaching just to try and prove your point, when the fact is ODLH was rubbish and he was rubbish in sparring aswell. Getting the crap knocked out of him by the smaller Victor Ortiz.
Im the king of excuses since when ? i give fighters credit but if there is circumstances surronding a certain fight. Then yes i will point it out like everyone else does on here.
Prove my point? I don't have to prove anything. You're the one claiming Pacster's wins are tainted.
For you to be right, you must PROVE any other top 147 fighter would have done as good a job as Pacster. Can you prove that? No you can't, because no other 147 fighter fought Oscar that night. So you're wrong. Fact.
You deal with suppostion, I deal with the facts. ;)
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
XaduBoxer
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
Despite the size disparity people will be perfectly fine with this fight because
1) Pacquiao fans have made people hate him.
2) Cotto isn't Mayweather.
I love the hypocritical nature of boxing.
1. No, it's not people hating PAC because of his fans (actually PAC fans are people who loves to have fun all the time).
No but people do want to see Pac lose and it's not because of Pac... it's because of people such as yourself.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
I forgot to add, the reason why no one will hate on Cotto is because the guy has been a warrior. He fights anyone out there in the most talented division. I can't say the same for Floyd, while Manny will fight anyone out there he's now proposing catch weights.
Not to mentioned Cotto took a beating in the 8-11 rounds of the Margarito fight which many people have noticed Margarito all of a sudden seems to be punching harder. The theory was that the hand wraps had started to harden. Cotto is a warrior fighting someone that had plaster of paris handwraps agaisnt him.
And of course I'll admit it, I want to see Pacman take a savage beating, I'm pretty sure most of the boxing fans wants to see it and when it happens most of the boxing fans will be rejoicing. Not because I don't like Pacman or most boxing fans don't like him, it's just that the Pacman fans are the least knowlegeable about the sport and just a bunch of bandwagoners, racists, idiots, nationalists, etc. They really make Pacman fans look bad, hence why everyone now is against Pacman.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Pacster would have beat Hatton at any time of Hatton's career. Watch the Magee fight.
Oscar was a shriveled mess, yes, but that doesn't mean any fighter would have slaughtered him the way Pacster did.
You're the excuses king, ICB, don't try and make out you wont be making excuses. ;)
Didn't i just say Manny Pacquiao would of beaten any version of Ricky Hatton ? but you can't just base that on one performance.
ODLH was rubbish in that fight any top 147 pound fighter, would of beaten ODLH like a red headed step child. ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since 2001 agaisnt Arturo Gatti, and the last time he was below 146 was in 1997 against Miguel Angel Gonzalez, if that isn't proof enough i don't know what is.
You know it and i know it, don't try and make out that Manny Pacquiao, is the only fighter that would of beaten a weight drained ODLH like that.
Because that is reaching just to try and prove your point, when the fact is ODLH was rubbish and he was rubbish in sparring aswell. Getting the crap knocked out of him by the smaller Victor Ortiz.
Im the king of excuses since when ? i give fighters credit but if there is circumstances surronding a certain fight. Then yes i will point it out like everyone else does on here.
Prove my point? I don't have to prove anything. You're the one claiming Pacster's wins are tainted.
For you to be right, you must PROVE any other top 147 fighter would have done as good a job as Pacster. Can you prove that? No you can't, because no other 147 fighter fought Oscar that night. So you're wrong. Fact.
You deal with suppostion, I deal with the facts. ;)
Actually your wrong again how is it a "Fact" that no one else would of done that to ODLH ?
Its your opinion no one else wouldn't have, like its my opinion plenty of fighters could.
I've backed my comments up with facts, like its a fact that ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since he fought Arturo Gatti in 2001. Its a fact he hasn't been below 146 pounds since he fought Miguel Angel Gonzalez in 1997 over a decade.
Its a fact in sparring before the Manny Pacquiao fight, he got beat up by the smaller Victor Ortiz. Its a fact in the fight previous to the Manny Pacquiao fight.
He was marked up by the smaller Steve Forbes. Its a fact it was ODLH's worst performance of his career against Manny Pacquiao, its a fact he was badly weight drained.
And its a very strong opinion backed up by solid facts of the past, that most of the elite Welterweights. Would of beaten ODLH without too much trouble.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
ICB
Didn't i just say Manny Pacquiao would of beaten any version of Ricky Hatton ? but you can't just base that on one performance.
ODLH was rubbish in that fight any top 147 pound fighter, would of beaten ODLH like a red headed step child. ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since 2001 agaisnt Arturo Gatti, and the last time he was below 146 was in 1997 against Miguel Angel Gonzalez, if that isn't proof enough i don't know what is.
You know it and i know it, don't try and make out that Manny Pacquiao, is the only fighter that would of beaten a weight drained ODLH like that.
Because that is reaching just to try and prove your point, when the fact is ODLH was rubbish and he was rubbish in sparring aswell. Getting the crap knocked out of him by the smaller Victor Ortiz.
Im the king of excuses since when ? i give fighters credit but if there is circumstances surronding a certain fight. Then yes i will point it out like everyone else does on here.
Prove my point? I don't have to prove anything. You're the one claiming Pacster's wins are tainted.
For you to be right, you must PROVE any other top 147 fighter would have done as good a job as Pacster. Can you prove that? No you can't, because no other 147 fighter fought Oscar that night. So you're wrong. Fact.
You deal with suppostion, I deal with the facts. ;)
Actually your wrong again how is it a "Fact" that no one else would of done that to ODLH ?
Its your opinion no one else wouldn't have, like its my opinion plenty of fighters could.
I've backed my comments up with facts, like its a fact that ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since he fought Arturo Gatti in 2001. Its a fact he hasn't been below 146 pounds since he fought Miguel Angel Gonzalez in 1997 over a decade.
Its a fact in sparring before the Manny Pacquiao fight, he got beat up by the smaller Victor Ortiz. Its a fact in the fight previous to the Manny Pacquiao fight.
He was marked up by the smaller Steve Forbes. Its a fact it was ODLH's worst performance of his career against Manny Pacquiao, its a fact he was badly weight drained.
And its a very strong opinion backed up by solid facts of the past, that most of the elite Welterweights. Would of beaten ODLH without too much trouble.
No.. I never said that. You are confusing yourself. You need to focus on what I am saying.
Nobody apart from Pacster fought Oscar on the 06-12-2008. That is a fact. Therefore it is impossible to know for a fact that any other fighter would have been more impressive than Pacster. That is a fact.
You THINK any top fighter at 147 would have beaten Oscar that night. But you can't PROVE it. It's just an OPINION because It's IMPOSSIBLE to prove. That is a fact.
I too believe other fighters would have beaten Oscar that night. BUT it doesn't mean Pacster's performance should be sullied. ;)
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
Despite the size disparity people will be perfectly fine with this fight because
1) Pacquiao fans have made people hate him.
2) Cotto isn't Mayweather.
I love the hypocritical nature of boxing.
Well there is a big difference if you are talking about a possible Cotto vs Pac fight and floyd vs Marquez.
1)Pac has looked just as strong if not stronger than most his opponents since moving up from 130 while Marquez was being manhandled at 135 by Juan Diaz until he outsmarted him.
2)Pac has great speed that up to this point seems unrivaled. Marquez although a great boxer in his own right doesn't have that equalizer at higher weights.
3)Pac looks comfortable at around 140 and i don't see Marquez beating a top 10 Jr welter.
Good enough?
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
AdamGB
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Originally Posted by
XaduBoxer
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
Despite the size disparity people will be perfectly fine with this fight because
1) Pacquiao fans have made people hate him.
2) Cotto isn't Mayweather.
I love the hypocritical nature of boxing.
1. No, it's not people hating PAC because of his fans (actually PAC fans are people who loves to have fun all the time).
No but people do want to see Pac lose and it's not because of Pac... it's because of people such as yourself.
Normal people don't wanna see PAC and/or Cotto lose coz they're both warriors... Irrational people tho wants PAC to lose because of his fans?? Totally nonsense reasoning...
.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Who's talking about wanting to see Cotto lose? :rolleyes:
Now one wants to actually see Pac himself lose, they just want it to happen because his retarded minions need a good slap across the face which is exactly what it would be if he lost.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
BIG H
PBF TKOs Pac FACT
Cotto TKOs Pac FACT
:cool:
I meant Floyd SD Pacster. Fact. ;D
Pacster definitely KO's Cotto. You see Cotto the weekend? He will look like he's fighting in treacle compared to Pacster. Pacster will beat him to a pulp inside 6. Fact.
I know your being sarcastic but im not sure if you still think Manny Pacquiao, will actually beat Miguel Cotto so i'll reply anyway.
Joshua Clottey stood straight in front of Miguel Cotto, and is way bigger than Manny Pacquiao.
Manny Pacquiao would be on the move constantly, he wouldn't stand his ground vs Miguel Cotto. He would rely on his footwork and speed.
Now i think Manny Pacquiao is a really good fighter, but i think he's being a bit overrated here.
Ricky Hatton was on the slide yes it was an impressive victory, and it wouldn't of mattered what Ricky Hatton turned up.
But still Ricky Hatton hasn't been the same since the Kostya Tszyu fight, ODLH was weight drained and rubbish. He hadn't fought at Welterweight in god knows how many years. And David Diaz is just mediocre.
I don't see how any of these fights prove that Manny Pacquiao, stands any chance against Floyd Mayweather Jr or Miguel Cotto. Or that Manny Pacquiao stands a chance against any top Welterweight, he hasn't fought a live-fighter at Welterweight yet.
Floyd Mayweather Jr still totally outboxes Manny Pacquiao, by atleast 8 rounds to 4. Anything JMM can do Floyd Mayweather Jr will do better. And Miguel Cotto will be too physical and too strong, and his body shots will be the key especially the way Manny Pacquiao leaves his body exposed, and he'll stop Manny Pacquiao late on.
JMM style suits him way better againt southpaws then Mayweather's, we've seen Mayweather not look great against Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley.
Also I think you are way over estimating Cotto, he's the guy who went life and death with Ricardo Torres, almost was ko'ed by Demarcus Corley, and he was stunned several times against Zab Judah. Manny will beat Cotto quite badly MARK my words. I don't even see it being super competitive, no way can Cotto close the gap quick enough, you have to be close to land a solid left hook if you are incapable of leaping in(which COtto is), and Manny will be moving away from that left hook all night, he won't allow the slow footed Cotto to corner him, and he will land at will against Cotto because Cotto has an average defense in overall(sometimes he does amazing things defensively, but generally he is easy to hit), he can be hurt (say what you want but Manny hurts people that people wouldn't expect him to, and Cotto definitely isn't the guy with the toughest chin Manny has ever faced).
ALl I've seen from you ICB are excuses of why Manny doesn't deserve credit for beating Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya, but Oscar looked fine against Forbes, sure he was focused on defense, but his offensive looked good at 150, that is three pounds above where he fought Manny, and sure you can make a legitimate excuse that Oscar was weight drained, but great fighters still are tough to beat even if they are facing adversity, and Manny dominated him. Not only that but Manny destroyed Hatton in 2 rounds, and you can't say Hatton was way past his prime because thats not true, he looked as good against Paulie as he did against anyone near his "prime".
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
It doesn't matter if 150 pounds is 'only 3 pounds' away though mate.
There has to be a single point where it becomes to much, a pound... an ounce... what ever.
He sure as hell shouldn't have been rehydrating with an IVF drip and barely managing to rehydrate at all.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Prove my point? I don't have to prove anything. You're the one claiming Pacster's wins are tainted.
For you to be right, you must PROVE any other top 147 fighter would have done as good a job as Pacster. Can you prove that? No you can't, because no other 147 fighter fought Oscar that night. So you're wrong. Fact.
You deal with suppostion, I deal with the facts. ;)
Actually your wrong again how is it a "Fact" that no one else would of done that to ODLH ?
Its your opinion no one else wouldn't have, like its my opinion plenty of fighters could.
I've backed my comments up with facts, like its a fact that ODLH hasn't fought at Welterweight since he fought Arturo Gatti in 2001. Its a fact he hasn't been below 146 pounds since he fought Miguel Angel Gonzalez in 1997 over a decade.
Its a fact in sparring before the Manny Pacquiao fight, he got beat up by the smaller Victor Ortiz. Its a fact in the fight previous to the Manny Pacquiao fight.
He was marked up by the smaller Steve Forbes. Its a fact it was ODLH's worst performance of his career against Manny Pacquiao, its a fact he was badly weight drained.
And its a very strong opinion backed up by solid facts of the past, that most of the elite Welterweights. Would of beaten ODLH without too much trouble.
No.. I never said that. You are confusing yourself. You need to focus on what I am saying.
Nobody apart from Pacster fought Oscar on the 06-12-2008. That is a fact. Therefore it is impossible to know for a fact that any other fighter would have been more impressive than Pacster. That is a fact.
You THINK any top fighter at 147 would have beaten Oscar that night. But you can't PROVE it. It's just an OPINION because It's IMPOSSIBLE to prove. That is a fact.
I too believe other fighters would have beaten Oscar that night. BUT it doesn't mean Pacster's performance should be sullied. ;)
Perhaps but the version of DLH that showed up was in name only.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Teath he weight in at 145 and came in at 147 in the Forbes fight he weight in at 150 but come fight night Oscar Dela Hoya weight alot more.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
I meant Floyd SD Pacster. Fact. ;D
Pacster definitely KO's Cotto. You see Cotto the weekend? He will look like he's fighting in treacle compared to Pacster. Pacster will beat him to a pulp inside 6. Fact.
I know your being sarcastic but im not sure if you still think Manny Pacquiao, will actually beat Miguel Cotto so i'll reply anyway.
Joshua Clottey stood straight in front of Miguel Cotto, and is way bigger than Manny Pacquiao.
Manny Pacquiao would be on the move constantly, he wouldn't stand his ground vs Miguel Cotto. He would rely on his footwork and speed.
Now i think Manny Pacquiao is a really good fighter, but i think he's being a bit overrated here.
Ricky Hatton was on the slide yes it was an impressive victory, and it wouldn't of mattered what Ricky Hatton turned up.
But still Ricky Hatton hasn't been the same since the Kostya Tszyu fight, ODLH was weight drained and rubbish. He hadn't fought at Welterweight in god knows how many years. And David Diaz is just mediocre.
I don't see how any of these fights prove that Manny Pacquiao, stands any chance against Floyd Mayweather Jr or Miguel Cotto. Or that Manny Pacquiao stands a chance against any top Welterweight, he hasn't fought a live-fighter at Welterweight yet.
Floyd Mayweather Jr still totally outboxes Manny Pacquiao, by atleast 8 rounds to 4. Anything JMM can do Floyd Mayweather Jr will do better. And Miguel Cotto will be too physical and too strong, and his body shots will be the key especially the way Manny Pacquiao leaves his body exposed, and he'll stop Manny Pacquiao late on.
JMM style suits him way better againt southpaws then Mayweather's, we've seen Mayweather not look great against Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley.
Also I think you are way over estimating Cotto, he's the guy who went life and death with Ricardo Torres, almost was ko'ed by Demarcus Corley, and he was stunned several times against Zab Judah. Manny will beat Cotto quite badly MARK my words. I don't even see it being super competitive, no way can Cotto close the gap quick enough, you have to be close to land a solid left hook if you are incapable of leaping in(which COtto is), and Manny will be moving away from that left hook all night, he won't allow the slow footed Cotto to corner him, and he will land at will against Cotto because Cotto has an average defense in overall(sometimes he does amazing things defensively, but generally he is easy to hit), he can be hurt (say what you want but Manny hurts people that people wouldn't expect him to, and Cotto definitely isn't the guy with the toughest chin Manny has ever faced).
ALl I've seen from you ICB are excuses of why Manny doesn't deserve credit for beating Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya, but Oscar looked fine against Forbes, sure he was focused on defense, but his offensive looked good at 150, that is three pounds above where he fought Manny, and sure you can make a legitimate excuse that Oscar was weight drained, but great fighters still are tough to beat even if they are facing adversity, and Manny dominated him. Not only that but Manny destroyed Hatton in 2 rounds, and you can't say Hatton was way past his prime because thats not true, he looked as good against Paulie as he did against anyone near his "prime".
Miguel Cotto was weight drained against Torres, Corley, that was at 140. And why are you giving Miguel Cotto so much flack for having a little trouble against Zab Judah ?
Floyd Mayweather Jr struggled just as much against Zab Judah in the first few rounds, and Floyd Mayweather Jr was actually dropped.
Miguel Cotto only lost a few rounds and was only stunned a few times for a split second, it was still a one sided whooping so i don't see your point.
I gave him credit for beating Ricky Hatton, Ricky Hatton was still good but he was still on the slide. He hasn't been at his best since Kostya Tszyu.
You can't judge him in the Paul Malignaggi fight, because Paul Malignaggi just kept clinching and didn't even fight after the 2nd round, when he felt the power of Ricky Hatton.
And again i don't see how beating Ricky Hatton, makes his chances any greater against Miguel Cotto or Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Come on ODLH wasn't good in the Steve Forbes fight, everyone expected ODLH to blow away Steve Forbes. ODLH was marked up and lost rounds which he shouldn't have. If ODLH was in his prime he would of blown away Steve Forbes.
ODLH was 145 pounds against Manny Pacquiao not 147 pounds, secondly he hardly rehydrated any weight which means he was weight-drained.
You don't have to make any excuse its a fact he was weight-drained. He hasn't been that low in weight since 1997.
Re: Why people won't hate on Miguel Cotto for fighting Manny Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Despite the size disparity people will be perfectly fine with this fight because
1) Pacquiao fans have made people hate him.
2) Cotto isn't Mayweather.
I love the hypocritical nature of boxing.
It's not that we as fans are fine with this but the circumstances as of late, have made us sort of immune to this, and Floyd was the one who started this yo-yo and then Pac follows suit.
When Floyd forced Hatton to move up, I knew Hatton would not win,
When Manny moved up to fight Hatton at 140, I know Hatton was going to get stratched, I said 5th round knock out btw. Floyd also moved up to 154 and just bored us with a snoozer. ODLH moves down to fight Manny and I knew ODLH was going to get owned.
Suddenly we have Floyd returning and forcing a guy to practicly move up two weight divisions, two of which he has never faught in ever.
But the trend seems to continue, we all got used to the idea of PBF vs JMM but no one wants to pay to see it ;D
Now, Manny should move up to 147 or call Cotto down to 140. Manny has shown he is perfectly capeable of handling himself in either division. There is nothing to do at 140, how many times can top tier fighters go thru Malignaggi? lol Paulie is not even good.
I seriously believe that Manny can handle his own at 147 but he should go after the baby of the bunch and this being Berto if Berto has the heart and then Manny should explore his options. Cotto looks a bit shot to some, Mosley is old and getting older, so Manny, IMO has a great chance.
I have no idea what is going on with these so called negotiations between Arum, Team Cotto and Team Pacquiao. I am confused and I have stopped reading on the subject. I will just wait until we hear something affirmative on the matter.
Cotto at 140 gets startched by Manny,
Mosley? I don't know
Cotto at 147 against Manny would be a good fight.
Cotto does not do very well against SouthPaws and he also struggles against smaller dudes who move around a lot. (Tony was not small) I wont even get into this as their are too many things to argue and it will be kicking a dead horse to some. Cotto lost to Margarina and that was that.
Right now, we don't have much going on in the sport, so I hope someone does something because this is getting frustrating.
We should have a boxing battle royal, for charity even.
;D
