Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Everyone fails to recognize what Spicoli has said already. Wlad has a definitive comfort zone, when it is compromised he unravels. His only adjustment is to hold like he was clinging to a life preserver.
Those guys I mentioned came to fight.
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
Bowe
Moorer
Those guys were tough, had heart and a fighting spirit. The problem with the heavyweight division is, European fighters for the most part need to read there opposition from a comfort level and a distance.(Quote from Emmanuel Steward on how Ricky Hattons style was made to beat Tszyu)
Now when you look at the influx of European fighters that are in the Heavyweight division Chagaev, Imbragimov, Povetkin, Wlad Klitschko etc. They are good Boxers NOT GOOD FIGHTERS. Wlad being so big and enjoying a size advantage those guys cant outbox him. Yet they wouldnt try to press and push him and unravel him they try to box from the outside and they get picked off.
The guy that beats Wlad wont be a guy that out boxes him, its a guy who jumps in and presses and fights. Thats why fighters like David Haye and Chris Arreola are such intriguing matchups.
There going to try and fight and impose there will, there not safety 1st guys there the kind of exciting fighters that we come to enjoy from our Heavyweight Champion of the world. Its unimagineable to think a 6'7 240lb carved out of a statue physique who hits like a mule dosent finish a guy who he clearly out guns by a longshot, he dosent even try.
If Wlad was a Welterweight or Middle etc, than his style would be great, but he's the damn recognized HeavyWeight Champ of the world for Chrisesakes TRY TO FRIGGIN FIGHT!!!
Wlad hasnt even had a career defining fight that galvanizes his legacy.
Good post for the most part but I do ask about the fighter's who have jumped in and fought him, you mean too tell not one of them has already try this without Wlad knocking the shit out of them. Thing is yes maybe there would be fighter's who jump in like Haye or Arreola but it's the fact that the would be hit so cleanly and hard as hell they will basically unravel themselves saying "holy fuck I'd better not do that again" alas making their style and the fight reverert back to a "boring ass" Wlad controlled fight.
The point is the same as Sanders and Brewster. They sold out because they knew Wlad would unravel because of his chin and he did and will.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
But that isn't a testament to how weak the division is, it's a testament to how good of a fighter Wladimir is
You just keep on believing.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Everyone fails to recognize what Spicoli has said already. Wlad has a definitive comfort zone, when it is compromised he unravels. His only adjustment is to hold like he was clinging to a life preserver.
Those guys I mentioned came to fight.
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
Bowe
Moorer
Those guys were tough, had heart and a fighting spirit. The problem with the heavyweight division is, European fighters for the most part need to read there opposition from a comfort level and a distance.(Quote from Emmanuel Steward on how Ricky Hattons style was made to beat Tszyu)
Now when you look at the influx of European fighters that are in the Heavyweight division Chagaev, Imbragimov, Povetkin, Wlad Klitschko etc. They are good Boxers NOT GOOD FIGHTERS. Wlad being so big and enjoying a size advantage those guys cant outbox him. Yet they wouldnt try to press and push him and unravel him they try to box from the outside and they get picked off.
The guy that beats Wlad wont be a guy that out boxes him, its a guy who jumps in and presses and fights. Thats why fighters like David Haye and Chris Arreola are such intriguing matchups.
There going to try and fight and impose there will, there not safety 1st guys there the kind of exciting fighters that we come to enjoy from our Heavyweight Champion of the world. Its unimagineable to think a 6'7 240lb carved out of a statue physique who hits like a mule dosent finish a guy who he clearly out guns by a longshot, he dosent even try.
If Wlad was a Welterweight or Middle etc, than his style would be great, but he's the damn recognized HeavyWeight Champ of the world for Chrisesakes TRY TO FRIGGIN FIGHT!!!
Wlad hasnt even had a career defining fight that galvanizes his legacy.
Good post for the most part but I do ask about the fighter's who have jumped in and fought him, you mean too tell not one of them has already try this without Wlad knocking the shit out of them. Thing is yes maybe there would be fighter's who jump in like Haye or Arreola but it's the fact that the would be hit so cleanly and hard as hell they will basically unravel themselves saying "holy fuck I'd better not do that again" alas making their style and the fight reverert back to a "boring ass" Wlad controlled fight.
The point is the same as Sanders and Brewster. They sold out because they knew Wlad would unravel because of his chin and he did and will.
But you do think Wlad has changed since those fight's ? The way he is fighting now is it not protecting his chin now? Those fight's were long ago and as of now he is on a roll and from what I believe exactley what Flores was saying he looks completley relaxed and confident. I think that is the difference between Wlad now and Wlad of a few years back.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Good post for the most part but I do ask about the fighter's who have jumped in and fought him, you mean too tell not one of them has already try this without Wlad knocking the shit out of them. Thing is yes maybe there would be fighter's who jump in like Haye or Arreola but it's the fact that the would be hit so cleanly and hard as hell they will basically unravel themselves saying "holy fuck I'd better not do that again" alas making their style and the fight reverert back to a "boring ass" Wlad controlled fight.
The point is the same as Sanders and Brewster. They sold out because they knew Wlad would unravel because of his chin and he did and will.
But you do think Wlad has changed since those fight's ? The way he is fighting now is it not protecting his chin now? Those fight's were long ago and as of now he is on a roll and from what I believe exactley what Flores was saying he looks completley relaxed and confident. I think that is the difference between Wlad now and Wlad of a few years back.
yea but no matter what you cant change your chin, you have one or you dont. he is confident because the fights are all the way he dictates the pace. Wlad's opponents try to out box him, they stay at the end of his jab and are dumb enough to circle to his right hand and boom, wash rinse and repeat. When Wlad fights a live body and a banger then we'll see how confident he is.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
yea but no matter what you cant change your chin, you have one or you dont. he is confident because the fights are all the way he dictates the pace. Wlad's opponents try to out box him, they stay at the end of his jab and are dumb enough to circle to his right hand and boom, wash rinse and repeat. When Wlad fights a live body and a banger then we'll see how confident he is.
If you don't get hit then that really voids the whole chin issue then doesn't it???
Brewster and Sanders "sold out"...well Corrie did it because he knew he had to get to him within the first couple of rounds or Corrie would be gased. Lamon did it out of dumbass luck...he let Wlad smash his face for 5 rounds until he tired himself out. Wlad fought Brewster again and look what happened, Wlad paced himself and Brewster got destroyed...if Wlad fought even a PRIME Corrie Sanders right now he'd have no issue with him he has probably fought and beaten more heavyweight southpaws (for title fights) than any other heavyweight champion in history and all that just since the loss to Corrie Sanders...none of them really bothered him and it's not because they were worse than Sanders it's because Wlad learned from his mistakes....some people are able to adapt and Wlad has done that. Ruslan Chagaev landed 1 meaningful punch on Wladimir.....1 and it didn't even phase him.
Wlad's CHIN isn't the issue it's how he deals with being hit...he has never been KO'd the way Hatton got KO'd by Pacquiao he has only been knocked down, he's always recovered decently, in the Sanders and Brewster fights he took some pretty damn big bombs and either took them standing up or got right back up after getting knocked down....Wlad just didn't know how to deal with fighting once his bell has been rung and NOW he just ties the guys up and viola he hasn't had trouble since then
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
JT, how can you say this as a Floyd fan? I mean, I'm a Mayweather fan too and no Wlad fan, but Mayweather has at times been just as cautious as Wlad and Wlad at times has poured it on just as much as Mayweather ever has.
Also Holmcall, I disagree. While I found the other guy annoying, I thought B.J. did a great job commentating I was very impressed. I don't think he was calling the fight exciting but with more action then what might have been expected after the Sultan Ibragimov farce. There was greater skill there and I"m sure as a fighter, that's what B.J. was excited by. So just because you weren't seeing a great competitive battle or a great fight but good skills from a good heavyweight on display who executed his gameplan to perfection.
When things started getting repetitive he put the onus on Wlad to finish the fight, he started talking about the importance of a good finish at the very start of the 5th round. He also wanted more then the 1,2 and thought Wlad should have used his left hook more especially following the right hands that were landing to put some punches together. So it wasn't as if he didn't offer any critique.
I really didn't see him blowing smoke like others (on other boards too) did.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
JT, how can you say this as a Floyd fan? I mean, I'm a Mayweather fan too and no Wlad fan, but Mayweather has at times been just as cautious as Wlad and Wlad at times has poured it on just as much as Mayweather ever has.
One. Mayweather rarely towers over his foes with a weight and massive reach advantage.
Two. Mayweather is not a knockout puncher
Three. Mayweather fights with a counter punching style not just because he doesn't have the power to stand and bang with someone but because of his fragile hands. Mayweather has reason to be cautious because he isn't the biggest or hardest punching guy in there, he often isn't the bigger guy in the ring, and everyone he fights is basically more often then not the same size as him or bigger.
Wladimer has height, reach, youth, athleticism, speed and power over EVERY heavyweight he faces so what does he have to be cautious about?
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
He's fighting smart Majesty.
Riddle me this, if Wladimir fought more the style that he did Saturday vs Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster would he have a better or worse chance of winning a fight?
If Wladimir threw caution to the wind and went out there "guns a blazin" how many fights could he win and how many could he lose??
Wladimir isn't fighting the way he is because that's the way people want to see it he's fighting the way that is best suited for him and his physical/mental attributes and this is why he is so dominant.
Would Kareem Abdul-Jabaar been as dominant without the sky hook? Would Shaq have been as great without using his natural physical attributes? Would Floyd Mayweather be great if he didn't use any defense?? Would Babe Ruth have been great if you told him to ONLY hit for average???
Wlad is just using his physical advantages AND his mind to overcome his opponents he's a very gifted athlete and smart fighter.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
JT, how can you say this as a Floyd fan? I mean, I'm a Mayweather fan too and no Wlad fan, but Mayweather has at times been just as cautious as Wlad and Wlad at times has poured it on just as much as Mayweather ever has.
One. Mayweather rarely towers over his foes with a weight and massive reach advantage.
Two. Mayweather is not a knockout puncher
Three. Mayweather fights with a counter punching style not just because he doesn't have the power to stand and bang with someone but because of his fragile hands. Mayweather has reason to be cautious because he isn't the biggest or hardest punching guy in there, he often isn't the bigger guy in the ring, and everyone he fights is basically more often then not the same size as him or bigger.
Wladimer has height, reach, youth, athleticism, speed and power over EVERY heavyweight he faces so what does he have to be cautious about?
BOOYEA! Game set, match Amat!;D Majesty couldnt have said it any better.
I addressed this already in an earlier post, if Wlad was in a lower weight his style would be great if he was a welter or middle, since the physical advantages arent as dramatic.
Lyle I have no problem with Wlad starting a fight Jabbing and 1-2 for a few rounds, since I agree it's absolute presicion and a thing of beauty and I am a fan of that brand of fighting.
BUT
My only issue with Wlad is when its obvious early that he has stifled the guy with a jab, hammered him with a few rights and has them on the backfoot he dosent go for the kill when there is blood in the water, no bodywork, no hooks no killer instinct just repetitive jabs. No one is advocating a Tyson approach were he runs out in the middle of the ring and blitzes his opponent. He would be more appealing if he put his foot on the gas when its obvious his fights could be over in 3-4 rounds instead of 8-9.
I'll even venture a guess and say Wlad hasnt lost a round in a fight since Peter dropped him 3 times back in 05. Bottomline is Wlad should shift gears faster against guys that he clearly outguns and is dominating.
Thats why I am not a fan of his, I believe his chin and mental state is that fragile that he wont try to finish guys like Chageav, Rahman, Byrd, Imbragimov
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rowlesy
Saying that about his victories, you have to look at who he has beaten. It's one hell of a padded record. It's a very sad indictment of the division that someone like Wlad can just jab there way to the top and be so very boring.
...well after a post like that I don't even have to call you a hater you're proudly promoting yourself as one without any help from the like of me.
Wladimir does what he does, he comes to fight in shape, he gets the KO's and he doesn't get hit. He's not Mike Tyson, he's not Evander Holyfield but he has achieved so much already and he's just 32 so he's got a lot left in him.
Sure the guys Wlad has fought recently have mainly been fighting to stay alive Tyson had similar issues as did Lennox Lewis and they had tough fights on account of it and they weren't fun to watch.
But that isn't a testament to how weak the division is, it's a testament to how good of a fighter Wladimir is, that a very experienced pro like Chagaev can just be baffled by the size, the skill, and the athletism of Wladimir and have no answer for it.
But go ahead and hate away...I'll enjoy it all the more when David Haye gets smacked down like the punk he is
http://rlv.zcache.com/deluded_jer_z_...41uh9r_400.jpg
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
B. J. pretty much writes down what the guy next to him says mixes it up and says it again.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
JT, how can you say this as a Floyd fan? I mean, I'm a Mayweather fan too and no Wlad fan, but Mayweather has at times been just as cautious as Wlad and Wlad at times has poured it on just as much as Mayweather ever has.
One. Mayweather rarely towers over his foes with a weight and massive reach advantage.
Two. Mayweather is not a knockout puncher
Three. Mayweather fights with a counter punching style not just because he doesn't have the power to stand and bang with someone but because of his fragile hands. Mayweather has reason to be cautious because he isn't the biggest or hardest punching guy in there, he often isn't the bigger guy in the ring, and everyone he fights is basically more often then not the same size as him or bigger.
Wladimer has height, reach, youth, athleticism, speed and power over EVERY heavyweight he faces so what does he have to be cautious about?
BOOYEA! Game set, match Amat!;D Majesty couldnt have said it any better.
I addressed this already in an earlier post, if Wlad was in a lower weight his style would be great if he was a welter or middle, since the physical advantages arent as dramatic.
Lyle I have no problem with Wlad starting a fight Jabbing and 1-2 for a few rounds, since I agree it's absolute presicion and a thing of beauty and I am a fan of that brand of fighting.
BUT
My only issue with Wlad is when its obvious early that he has stifled the guy with a jab, hammered him with a few rights and has them on the backfoot he dosent go for the kill when there is blood in the water, no bodywork, no hooks no killer instinct just repetitive jabs. No one is advocating a Tyson approach were he runs out in the middle of the ring and blitzes his opponent. He would be more appealing if he put his foot on the gas when its obvious his fights could be over in 3-4 rounds instead of 8-9.
I'll even venture a guess and say Wlad hasnt lost a round in a fight since Peter dropped him 3 times back in 05. Bottomline is Wlad should shift gears faster against guys that he clearly outguns and is dominating.
Thats why I am not a fan of his, I believe his chin and mental state is that fragile that he wont try to finish guys like Chageav, Rahman, Byrd, Imbragimov
Since when is the name of the game finishing a guy? And btw, he finished every single one of those you mentioned except Ibragimov, so what you are talking about? Really, he may not have poured it on for you enough but he definitely poured it on enough for all those guys who were actually in the ring against him. And as far as I'm concerned that's what matters.
I am no Wlad fan, I actually consider him one dimensional and I loathed his performance in the Ibragimov fight with all the holding. But the Wlad that faced Chagaev was an improved product who did almost no holding and when he had the opportunity to fire the right hand, he did. It wasn't perfect, could have been more punches but he punished the guy and never really gave the guy an opportunity to win. I'm sorry for not finding as many flaws in a performance where the opponent probably didn't land more then 10 clean punches the entire fight as others. The nitpicking is at an all time high here.
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
One. Mayweather rarely towers over his foes with a weight and massive reach advantage.
Two. Mayweather is not a knockout puncher
Three. Mayweather fights with a counter punching style not just because he doesn't have the power to stand and bang with someone but because of his fragile hands. Mayweather has reason to be cautious because he isn't the biggest or hardest punching guy in there, he often isn't the bigger guy in the ring, and everyone he fights is basically more often then not the same size as him or bigger.
Wladimer has height, reach, youth, athleticism, speed and power over EVERY heavyweight he faces so what does he have to be cautious about?
BOOYEA! Game set, match Amat!;D Majesty couldnt have said it any better.
I addressed this already in an earlier post, if Wlad was in a lower weight his style would be great if he was a welter or middle, since the physical advantages arent as dramatic.
Lyle I have no problem with Wlad starting a fight Jabbing and 1-2 for a few rounds, since I agree it's absolute presicion and a thing of beauty and I am a fan of that brand of fighting.
BUT
My only issue with Wlad is when its obvious early that he has stifled the guy with a jab, hammered him with a few rights and has them on the backfoot he dosent go for the kill when there is blood in the water, no bodywork, no hooks no killer instinct just repetitive jabs. No one is advocating a Tyson approach were he runs out in the middle of the ring and blitzes his opponent. He would be more appealing if he put his foot on the gas when its obvious his fights could be over in 3-4 rounds instead of 8-9.
I'll even venture a guess and say Wlad hasnt lost a round in a fight since Peter dropped him 3 times back in 05. Bottomline is Wlad should shift gears faster against guys that he clearly outguns and is dominating.
Thats why I am not a fan of his, I believe his chin and mental state is that fragile that he wont try to finish guys like Chageav, Rahman, Byrd, Imbragimov
Since when is the name of the game finishing a guy? And btw, he finished every single one of those you mentioned except Ibragimov, so what you are talking about? Really, he may not have poured it on for you enough but he definitely poured it on enough for all those guys who were actually in the ring against him. And as far as I'm concerned that's what matters.
I am no Wlad fan, I actually consider him one dimensional and I loathed his performance in the Ibragimov fight with all the holding. But the Wlad that faced Chagaev was an improved product who did almost no holding and when he had the opportunity to fire the right hand, he did. It wasn't perfect, could have been more punches but he punished the guy and never really gave the guy an opportunity to win. I'm sorry for not finding as many flaws in a performance where the opponent probably didn't land more then 10 clean punches the entire fight as others. The nitpicking is at an all time high here.
Finishing a guy that is there for the taking, is what people come to expect in a Heavyweight Champ and you know that.
Its no secret that the majority grow tired of Wlads cautious approach when he is more than capable of putting guys away 3-4 rounds earlier if he opened up a bit, like already mentioned he enjoys dramatic differences in power, height and weight 99% of the time.
Yes he's winning and thats what counts at the end of the day, but most fans grow weary and restless of the Jabaholic.
Quick question, when was the last time Wlad fought on a US PPV telecast? I know we arent the only boxing fans in the world and he is popular in europe but can you answer that?
Re: B. J. Flores' comments on Wlad yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SweetPea
You beat me to it. Michael Moorer? Wlad would annihilate Michael Moorer.
Moorer only won the title because Evander Holyfield practicially had a heart attack during the middle of their fight. And he lost the title in his first defense to a guy who was 45 years old.
LOL heart attack. I agree, it's just funny to think of someone boxing through a heart attack.
I think JT Rocksteady meant Archie Moore ;D
