Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Fuk all the BALCO talk.
Cotto is good but Mosley is better. Yeah I know Mosley lost but IMO he fought the wrong fight; He was suprised by Cotto's boxing ability.
Cotto was on the back foot by the end of the fight. Forget he's excuses for why. The real reasons became apparent in the Margarito and Clottey fights.
Cotto isn't quite the warrior he'd have us all believe.
Mosley would K.O cotto in a Re-match.
Also, for the sake of this argument, id LOVE to see how Cotto handled a PRIME Dela Hoya at 147 ;)
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Because he slaughtered the guy who butchered the guy who beat him, but he did this MOST RECENTLY. My guess is Mosley is fresher than Cotto and that's why I have have him ranked higher--that and the fact I saw Margo's ghost in his fight with Clottey.
Yea, but Cotto beat Clottey even more recently and he beat Mosley. Plus, Mosley looked mediocre in his win over Mayorga, which was the fight before Margarito.
Either way you cut it Cotto has taken on every single fighter out there. How anyone could not say Cotto is a warrior is beyond me.
Mosley is ranked above Cotto because Mosley beat Margarito. I can get that: Margarito was ranked number one and Mosley beat the number one guy. That said, Cotto beat Mosley, the current number one, and beat Clottey, the current number three.
If I'm getting everyone's points, everyone would agree that if Cotto rematched Margarito and beat him, he unequivocally would be ranked number one. Correct? And what if he beats Manny?
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Yea, but Cotto beat Clottey even more recently and he beat Mosley. Plus, Mosley looked mediocre in his win over Mayorga, which was the fight before Margarito.
Either way you cut it Cotto has taken on every single fighter out there. How anyone could not say Cotto is a warrior is beyond me.
Mosley is ranked above Cotto because Mosley beat Margarito. I can get that: Margarito was ranked number one and Mosley beat the number one guy. That said, Cotto beat Mosley, the current number one, and beat Clottey, the current number three.
If I'm getting everyone's points, everyone would agree that if Cotto rematched Margarito and beat him, he unequivocally would be ranked number one. Correct? And what if he beats Manny?
All Cotto has to do is fight Mosley again...simple as.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
Mosely should be ranked ahead of Cotto.
1. Margarito (plaster or not) completely broke Cotto down. In fact, it remains to be seen if he will ever recover. The bottom line is Cotto ate a bunch of leather.
2. Mosely put on a clinic against Margarito. Mosely did not get hit much at all.
3. Cotto did beat Mosely. But I wish people would go back and watch that fight. No way in hell was it a blow out and in no way did Cotto dominate. In a rematch I would def wager on Mosely.
4. Mosely has a real record that is very established. Not too many Urangos in recent time with him.
I actually don't think if you had to ask anyone who the man to beat at WW, it would really be that close of a question. Hands down, Sugar Shane is the man.
Cotto beat Mosley and Cotto beat #3 Clottey. Just these facts merit debate. As an analogy, remember Ring Magazine ranks Donaire ahead of Vic because Donaire beat Vic even though Vic has beat the better competition since that fight, which isn't even the case here.
Cotto's loss to Margarito, at least to an extent, can be chalked up to the fact Margarito was hitting him with bricks. Mosley didn't fight a Margarito with bricks.
We aren't talking about p4p. We are talking about at welterweight. Cotto has beat almost every single top ten welterweight with the exception of Collazo and Berto. Mosley has only beat Collazo.
It is definitely a close call even if Mosley gets the nod.
I agree completely that the Ring is contradicting itself here.
Personally I agree that Mosely should be number 1 because in knocking out Margarito he basically beat the man in the division. Ok so Mosely lost a close decision to Cotto, but Cotto was ktfo by Margarito and which at best puts Mosely and Cotto level and I think Mosely's career record and recent wins have been more impressive than Cotto so he deserves to be number 1 ahead of Cotto.
What annoys me though is that the Ring in a complete contradiciton rate Nonito Donaire above Darchinyan which is a total farce imo. Donaire has only ever faced a single world class opponent, and Darchinyan aside has never fought a world champion past or present. His resume apart from Vic is mediocre at best and the win over Darchinyan is mainly seen as a great win because of what Darchinyan has gone on to achieve AFTER losing to Donaire.
In a frankly ludicrously bizarre decision Donaire has had Darchinyan's wins over Arce and Mijares added to HIS resume which is ridiculous beyond belief.
Following that logic Chad Dawson should be top 10 p4p without question seeing as he beat Adamek who went on to beat O Neil Bell and Steve Cunningham and become the Ring champ at cruiserweight and thus a two weight world champ like Darchinyan.
It's a really weird twist of logic that you have Donaire above Darchinyan because he beat Darchinyan BEFORE he went on to acomplish the great things in his career yet they don't apply that logic to other fighters.
Williams and Dawson, probably Pavlik, Kessler, Haye, Wlad should all be above Donaire along with maybe guys like Juan Guzman.
Even Tim Bradely is a two time world champ which is double the acomplishments of Donaire.
Never has a man been rated so highly for achieving so little as Nonito Donaire.
Sorry to change the thread into a Nonito rant but it really grates me :mad:
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
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Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Yea, but Cotto beat Clottey even more recently and he beat Mosley. Plus, Mosley looked mediocre in his win over Mayorga, which was the fight before Margarito.
Either way you cut it Cotto has taken on every single fighter out there. How anyone could not say Cotto is a warrior is beyond me.
Mosley is ranked above Cotto because Mosley beat Margarito. I can get that: Margarito was ranked number one and Mosley beat the number one guy. That said, Cotto beat Mosley, the current number one, and beat Clottey, the current number three.
If I'm getting everyone's points, everyone would agree that if Cotto rematched Margarito and beat him, he unequivocally would be ranked number one. Correct? And what if he beats Manny?
All Cotto has to do is fight Mosley again...simple as.
Yeah i think that the WW division kind of Stood still when Floyd was about. Everyone wanted to fight him and no one really seemed to be fighting each other (if that makes sense).
Now that Manny Pacquiao has blown up in weight the same Welters, who for a while, were getting on with it in some great fights have seemed to be dragged back in to this equation of 'Who's gonna fight the P4P King'..
Fuk P4P. Mosley and Cotto are No.1 & 2 and thats a great reason, if any, for a rematch.
REMATCH BABY!! :cool:
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
It is a very close call, I wouldn't use my time to argue with neither of the two camps actually so close it is and how arguments on each side are solid to some extend, I think that to this point, it has almost been a head or tail decision but what makes the difference, I think, is that Moseley is 38 and schooled in a tremendous way the dominant Margarito, I think that it could be what made the difference, an outrageous performance and a Cotto who fights with lackluster in his latest ones.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Bilbo, aside from the Nonito rant, Mosley has had a better career, but how can you argue his recent performances were any better than Cotto's? Cotto has faced all comers at welterweight and beat two of the three in the top three (Mosley and Clottey). Before the Margarito fight, Mosley had a completely lackluster fight with Mayorga where he arguably was winning by maybe one round, before the 12th.
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Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Yeah i think that the WW division kind of Stood still when Floyd was about. Everyone wanted to fight him and no one really seemed to be fighting each other (if that makes sense).
Now that Manny Pacquiao has blown up in weight the same Welters, who for a while, were getting on with it in some great fights have seemed to be dragged back in to this equation of 'Who's gonna fight the P4P King'..
Fuk P4P. Mosley and Cotto are No.1 & 2 and thats a great reason, if any, for a rematch.
REMATCH BABY!! :cool:
Cotto didn't stand still. He fought every single fighter out there...and he still is doing same.
The Margarito win for Shane may indeed put him in the number one spot, but it is a tough call because Cotto beat Mosley and Clottey. Cotto should be number, for sure, if he beats Collazo, Berto, or Manny.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bilbo, aside from the Nonito rant, Mosley has had a better career, but how can you argue his recent performances were any better than Cotto's? Cotto has faced all comers at welterweight and beat two of the three in the top three (Mosley and Clottey). Before the Margarito fight, Mosley had a completely lackluster fight with Mayorga where he arguably was winning by maybe one round, before the 12th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Yeah i think that the WW division kind of Stood still when Floyd was about. Everyone wanted to fight him and no one really seemed to be fighting each other (if that makes sense).
Now that Manny Pacquiao has blown up in weight the same Welters, who for a while, were getting on with it in some great fights have seemed to be dragged back in to this equation of 'Who's gonna fight the P4P King'..
Fuk P4P. Mosley and Cotto are No.1 & 2 and thats a great reason, if any, for a rematch.
REMATCH BABY!! :cool:
Cotto didn't stand still. He fought every single fighter out there...and he still is doing same.
The Margarito win for Shane may indeed put him in the number one spot, but it is a tough call because Cotto beat Mosley and Clottey. Cotto should be number, for sure, if he beats Collazo, Berto, or Manny.
I give credit to Cotto for fighting all-comers but he has NOT fought EVERY single fighter out there. Mosley, Clottey, Judah & Quintana are impressive, but really at least 2 of those guys should not be ranked there as they haven't fought at 147 in over a year. The fact is Cotto narrowly beat Mosley (I had it 115-114 for Cotto) & Clottey (114-113 Clottey), whilst Mosley decisively beat & KO'd Margarito, which was unthinkable beforehand, who made Cotto quit. Now, admittedly there are severe doubts over Margarito's win over Cotto by virtue of his gloves, but there are none over his chin, which Mosley broke, & Cotto threw all he had at & couldn't finish.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Bilbo, aside from the Nonito rant, Mosley has had a better career, but how can you argue his recent performances were any better than Cotto's? Cotto has faced all comers at welterweight and beat two of the three in the top three (Mosley and Clottey). Before the Margarito fight, Mosley had a completely lackluster fight with Mayorga where he arguably was winning by maybe one round, before the 12th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Yeah i think that the WW division kind of Stood still when Floyd was about. Everyone wanted to fight him and no one really seemed to be fighting each other (if that makes sense).
Now that Manny Pacquiao has blown up in weight the same Welters, who for a while, were getting on with it in some great fights have seemed to be dragged back in to this equation of 'Who's gonna fight the P4P King'..
Fuk P4P. Mosley and Cotto are No.1 & 2 and thats a great reason, if any, for a rematch.
REMATCH BABY!! :cool:
Cotto didn't stand still. He fought every single fighter out there...and he still is doing same.
The Margarito win for Shane may indeed put him in the number one spot, but it is a tough call because Cotto beat Mosley and Clottey. Cotto should be number, for sure, if he beats Collazo, Berto, or Manny.
Mosley already beat Collazo and would have NO trouble beating ANY of Cotto's previous opponents.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Cotto - Mosley could have gone either way
Margarito beat Cotto convincingly.
Shane raped Margarito from start to finish
Therefore Shane is the best welterweight and until Cotto beats him he shall remain the best .
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Margarito knocked out Cotto because his will was greater then Cotto's.
I admit i was just a little skeptical, but when I watched the Clottey fight and how Cotto was getting tagged constantly and busted up when he couldnt put Clottey away it became clear to me that if that was Margarito in there for a rematch Cotto would have been stopped again. I don't think Margarito would have even needed bricks to beat Cotto that night or when he fought Clottey. No disrespect to Cotto but he just doesn't seem to respond as well to pressure as he did when lesser fighters did it to him.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
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Originally Posted by
blegit
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
kingfrnk
agree with all of it. especailly the words in bold. Cotto has taken all of the toughest fights at welter and no else has done this. i dont see how anybody cant be a fan of Cotto he takes on the toughest fights possible. im pretty sure if Paul Williams was still at 147 Cotto would be the only one who has the balls to take him on. anyways i think its pretty close but i would probably have shane 1st. but thats only because Margacheato beat Cotto (which is a questionable win now ) who was the #1 welter then Mosley beat Margacheato who was the #1 welter.
IMO shane and cotto should fight for the ring welterweight title
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Cotto beat Mosley and Cotto beat #3 Clottey. Just these facts merit debate. As an analogy, remember Ring Magazine ranks Donaire ahead of Vic because Donaire beat Vic even though Vic has beat the better competition since that fight, which isn't even the case here.
Cotto's loss to Margarito, at least to an extent, can be chalked up to the fact Margarito was hitting him with bricks. Mosley didn't fight a Margarito with bricks.
We aren't talking about p4p. We are talking about at welterweight. Cotto has beat almost every single top ten welterweight with the exception of Collazo and Berto. Mosley has only beat Collazo.
It is definitely a close call even if Mosley gets the nod.
neither did cotto..he just got his ass whooped by pressure and will...
Two pictures: One with his hand wrap around cotto, the second is the ref kenny bayless raising margo's hand, clearly showing that if he had plaster around his hand then bayless must've bet on him...
cotto just got his ass whooped, valiant effort, but just had the wrong game plan. No cheating..even if he did cheat, which is clear that he didn't at least not against cotto....he still took all of cotto's shots and walked through them, he broke cotto's will.
Imageshack - margaritocotto.jpg
Imageshack - movieclipping5.jpg
I know you already have your mind made up but don't be offended. Lets just be factual. The pictures you link are of Margarito hugging Cotto. How would Cotto know there is plaster in the wraps from Margarito's palms being on his back??? Second picture, the ref is holding Margarito's wrist. What does that prove??? Try to see what we are seeing about your argument.
In the Cotto fight there was nothing to be suspicious of so who is even looking for plaster? Let alone feeling for it. No one in either of these pics is feeling the knuckles and the plaster would be in the wraps on the knuckle part. You do realize that your pics prove nothing now, right? Actually, its makes your argument look silly by showing those pics and then saying proof. And remember before the Mosley bout, Nazeem Richardson had to feel and pat the knuckles of Margarito's wraps to know there was something not right. Also, Margarito already had one of his hands pass the inspection and checked off by the Commission by the time Richardson even got in the Margarito locker room. So Margarito is no slouch at getting away. Those wraps obviously were not visually catchable. And one more thing my man. How could anyone else know there was plaster in Margarito's handwraps when Margarito didn't even know?http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ons/icon10.gif
Those are very good points and the pic doesn't really prove anything. But what I do know is that there isn't any proof that he did use plaster against cotto or anyone else prior to the mosley fight.
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
neither did cotto..he just got his ass whooped by pressure and will...
Two pictures: One with his hand wrap around cotto, the second is the ref kenny bayless raising margo's hand, clearly showing that if he had plaster around his hand then bayless must've bet on him...
cotto just got his ass whooped, valiant effort, but just had the wrong game plan. No cheating..even if he did cheat, which is clear that he didn't at least not against cotto....he still took all of cotto's shots and walked through them, he broke cotto's will.
Imageshack - margaritocotto.jpg
Imageshack - movieclipping5.jpg
I know you already have your mind made up but don't be offended. Lets just be factual. The pictures you link are of Margarito hugging Cotto. How would Cotto know there is plaster in the wraps from Margarito's palms being on his back??? Second picture, the ref is holding Margarito's wrist. What does that prove??? Try to see what we are seeing about your argument.
In the Cotto fight there was nothing to be suspicious of so who is even looking for plaster? Let alone feeling for it. No one in either of these pics is feeling the knuckles and the plaster would be in the wraps on the knuckle part. You do realize that your pics prove nothing now, right? Actually, its makes your argument look silly by showing those pics and then saying proof. And remember before the Mosley bout, Nazeem Richardson had to feel and pat the knuckles of Margarito's wraps to know there was something not right. Also, Margarito already had one of his hands pass the inspection and checked off by the Commission by the time Richardson even got in the Margarito locker room. So Margarito is no slouch at getting away. Those wraps obviously were not visually catchable. And one more thing my man. How could anyone else know there was plaster in Margarito's handwraps when Margarito didn't even know?http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ons/icon10.gif
Those are very good points and the pic doesn't really prove anything. But what I do know is that there isn't any proof that he did use plaster against cotto or anyone else prior to the mosley fight.
People tried to say Cotto's face went from fine to completely busted up in a round or something and how it was "physically impossible" without the help of plaster..
Well I just watched a fight with Ortiz on Saturday where his face went from fine to busted up in a single round where he had a huge gash and also a huge lump on the bottom of his eye almost shutting it. All that stemmed from one punch and I doubt his opponent was using plaster :rolleyes:
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Fuk all the BALCO talk.
Cotto is good but Mosley is better. Yeah I know Mosley lost but IMO he fought the wrong fight; He was suprised by Cotto's boxing ability.
Cotto was on the back foot by the end of the fight. Forget he's excuses for why. The real reasons became apparent in the Margarito and Clottey fights.
Cotto isn't quite the warrior he'd have us all believe.
Mosley would K.O cotto in a Re-match.
Also, for the sake of this argument, id LOVE to see how Cotto handled a PRIME Dela Hoya at 147 ;)
yea cause only a pussy would fight on for 9 rnds with a gash like this one
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ottoclott7.jpg
or this one
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...real/Owned.jpg
Re: Why is Mosley ranked higher than Cotto at welterweight?
How is Cotto not a warrior? Also he outboxed Mosley early on in their fight, and he landed some big punches off the back foot, I don't think anyone believes Cotto is the most durable guy on the planet, but he's one of the toughest.
