They are sucking us dry please get rid of them.
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They are sucking us dry please get rid of them.
I knew it wouldn't take you long...Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerThey are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great countryQuote:
Originally Posted by milesNow is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.
No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.
Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals
If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.
Cut off the head and the monster will fall.
It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.
I know we as men all have our own set of prized crown jewels , but really the London souvenir market would just plummet.
New business idea,
I want one of those dogs that nods its head in the back of the car except with a prince charles head on it, ears and all.
You'd sell heaps, England would be back on its feet in a week.
The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanHow come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerThey are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great countryQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.
Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals
If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.
Cut off the head and the monster will fall.
It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.
If not abolish them, stop feeding them with peoples and tax money at least. As I stated, I am not necessarily for giving them the booth but it is about time nobody pay for them anymore as they could probably survive without that extra income coming out from peoples pockets who do not always have enough to feed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanHow come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.
Cut off the head and the monster will fall.
It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.
I was ranting towards the end because I was imbibing some of Winston Smith's 'Victory Gin'. Very toxic stuff, they call it Soju out here.
Kirkland has a point that there is room for the industrious working classes to get ahead if they try, but that still doesn't excuse having a Royal family as head of the state. They have so much land and wealth and this to me is unseemly. You know for a fact that the Duke of Edinburgh has never boiled a tin of soup in his life and has someone to vacuum each and every one of the rooms he lives in. And all this because of positions of inheritence?
It is wrong. I am of the position that we should all be born as equal to one another as possible, and a monarchy has no place in such a system. For anyone to defend what they represent is beyond me. The Queen should not be on coins either, I would much rather they have someone who has created something and become someone through their own hard work and dedication.
Most of their wealth has come from centuries of taking from society. It doesn't matter that today we only pay them a limited amount, their positions are set in stone and their wealth is so great that it accumulates through careful planning anyway. How many residences does the Royal family need? Who needs all the daft titles that they have?Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThe monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.
Any decent member of the Royal family would come out and say "This monarchy system is a joke and a big con and I don't deserve any of it! I am giving all my assets to help provide drinking water to those in Africa who don't have it and I am going to work in the electronics store down the road. Don't hassle me because I just want a normal life". But no, these greedy people living their lives of undeserved oppulence will continue to take and represent all that is fundamentally wrong in any supposedly democratic system. There is no justification for the Royal family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThe monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.
You seriously believe there would be no class barriers if the royals were to cease to exist?
What about america. They dont live under a monarchy. They still live in divides of rich to middle income to poor a similar situation to ourselves.
Your thinking far too out of the box on this one. Capitalism was thrust upon this country it wasnt manufactured by this hierarchy that people like labour and the lib dems would have you believe!!
Nope, thats not what i believe. But it might make a difference over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThe monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.
You seriously believe there would be no class barriers if the royals were to cease to exist?
What about america. They dont live under a monarchy. They still live in divides of rich to middle income to poor a similar situation to ourselves.
Your thinking far too out of the box on this one. Capitalism was thrust upon this country it wasnt manufactured by this hierarchy that people like labour and the lib dems would have you believe!!
But more importantly its the fact that they represent the class system. So even if there removal would only make a small difference its worth it, its a moral argument.
the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.
social mobility has DECREASED.
If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.
The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.
This is a different issue to that of the monachy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Thats complete b*llocks
50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none
But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.
If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Thats complete b*llocks
50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none
But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.
If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!
Britain's closed shop: damning report on social mobility failings | Society | The Guardian
and if you dont trust the lefty Guardian.
Disturbing finding from LSE study - social mobility in Britain lower than other advanced countries and declining - 2005 - News archive - News - Press and Information Office - External Relations Division - Home
Try the LSE
In a comparison of eight European and North American countries, Britain and the United States have the lowest social mobility
Social mobility in Britain has declined whereas in the US it is stable
Part of the reason for Britain's decline has been that the better off have benefited disproportionately from increased educational opportunity
And if it wasn't an issue we wouldnt need organisations like this.
Social Mobility Foundation
Although i accept the monarchy doesn't have a DIRECT impact on social mobility or equality the issues are not entirely separate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
The Royal family sit at the head of a system of inequality. That is just as it is. It is this system that limits social mobility. But i actually agree with a part of what hammer said, it is easier now for someone 'to get on' in life than it has ever been.
I accept that losing the royal family wouldn't on its own make much practical difference. Which is why it is essentially a MORAL argument.
How can it be morally right for there to be some people sleeping in their palaces tonight, served by 100s of people, stomachs filled with the finest food, none of it paid for, whilst there are others more able and hard working that will consider themselves fortunate if they don't go to bed hungry - and all based on so called 'birth right'. How can this be right? How can it be supported?