Should we abolish the Royal family?

[HattonTheHammer]

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.

You seriously believe there would be no class barriers if the royals were to cease to exist?

What about america. They dont live under a monarchy. They still live in divides of rich to middle income to poor a similar situation to ourselves.

Your thinking far too out of the box on this one. Capitalism was thrust upon this country it wasnt manufactured by this hierarchy that people like labour and the lib dems would have you believe!!

[ryanman]

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.

You seriously believe there would be no class barriers if the royals were to cease to exist?

What about america. They dont live under a monarchy. They still live in divides of rich to middle income to poor a similar situation to ourselves.

Your thinking far too out of the box on this one. Capitalism was thrust upon this country it wasnt manufactured by this hierarchy that people like labour and the lib dems would have you believe!!

Nope, thats not what i believe. But it might make a difference over time.
But more importantly its the fact that they represent the class system. So even if there removal would only make a small difference its worth it, its a moral argument.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.

social mobility has DECREASED.

If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.


The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.

This is a different issue to that of the monachy.

[HattonTheHammer]

the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.

social mobility has DECREASED.

If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.


The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.

This is a different issue to that of the monachy.

Thats complete b*llocks

50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none

But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.

If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!

[Howlin Mad Missy]

the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.

social mobility has DECREASED.

If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.


The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.

This is a different issue to that of the monachy.

Thats complete b*llocks

50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none

But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.

If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!

No.

Britain's closed shop: damning report on social mobility failings | Society | The Guardian

and if you dont trust the lefty Guardian.

Disturbing finding from LSE study - social mobility in Britain lower than other advanced countries and declining - 2005 - News archive - News - Press and Information Office - External Relations Division - Home

Try the LSE
In a comparison of eight European and North American countries, Britain and the United States have the lowest social mobility
Social mobility in Britain has declined whereas in the US it is stable
Part of the reason for Britain's decline has been that the better off have benefited disproportionately from increased educational opportunity


And if it wasn't an issue we wouldnt need organisations like this.
Social Mobility Foundation

[Kirkland Laing]

the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.

social mobility has DECREASED.

If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.


The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.

This is a different issue to that of the monachy.

Thats complete b*llocks

50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none

But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.

If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!

No.

Britain's closed shop: damning report on social mobility failings | Society | The Guardian

and if you dont trust the lefty Guardian.

Disturbing finding from LSE study - social mobility in Britain lower than other advanced countries and declining - 2005 - News archive - News - Press and Information Office - External Relations Division - Home

Try the LSE
In a comparison of eight European and North American countries, Britain and the United States have the lowest social mobility
Social mobility in Britain has declined whereas in the US it is stable
Part of the reason for Britain's decline has been that the better off have benefited disproportionately from increased educational opportunity


And if it wasn't an issue we wouldnt need organisations like this.
Social Mobility Foundation

Yes, Britain and America are dead last in terms of social mobility in advanced economies. So it's not down to having a monarchy. And Denmark and Norway are top of the list for social mobility and they both have constitutional monarchies like we do. So having a monarchy has nothing to do with it. What creates social mobility is access to education. here's the lefty FT making the same point :

FT.com / Comment / Opinion - The mobile society stalls at the gates of academe

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Thats complete b*llocks

50 years ago if you were born poor yes indeed the chances of you making it were slim to none

But in this day and age stockbrokers, bank managers etc come from all spectrums of our great land.

If your 45 and living off welfare its not the f*cking royal familys fault or even the fact society hasnt given you a chance. The options out there are endless its just about being ruthless enough to take them when they come along!!

No.

Britain's closed shop: damning report on social mobility failings | Society | The Guardian

and if you dont trust the lefty Guardian.

Disturbing finding from LSE study - social mobility in Britain lower than other advanced countries and declining - 2005 - News archive - News - Press and Information Office - External Relations Division - Home

Try the LSE
In a comparison of eight European and North American countries, Britain and the United States have the lowest social mobility
Social mobility in Britain has declined whereas in the US it is stable
Part of the reason for Britain's decline has been that the better off have benefited disproportionately from increased educational opportunity


And if it wasn't an issue we wouldnt need organisations like this.
Social Mobility Foundation

Yes, Britain and America are dead last in terms of social mobility in advanced economies. So it's not down to having a monarchy. And Denmark and Norway are top of the list for social mobility and they both have constitutional monarchies like we do. So having a monarchy has nothing to do with it. What creates social mobility is access to education. here's the lefty FT making the same point :

FT.com / Comment / Opinion - The mobile society stalls at the gates of academe

I never made the direct correlation between the UK having a monarchy and social mobiltity. Social conformity and norms are more subtle than that.

AND access to education is not the 1 factor that allows S.M to take place.

[ryanman]

the divide between rich and poor HAS grown.

social mobility has DECREASED.

If you're born poor you are less likely to ever change that.


The monachy is not directly responsible for that. Government and our own attitudes are.

This is a different issue to that of the monachy.

Although i accept the monarchy doesn't have a DIRECT impact on social mobility or equality the issues are not entirely separate.
The Royal family sit at the head of a system of inequality. That is just as it is. It is this system that limits social mobility. But i actually agree with a part of what hammer said, it is easier now for someone 'to get on' in life than it has ever been.

I accept that losing the royal family wouldn't on its own make much practical difference. Which is why it is essentially a MORAL argument.

How can it be morally right for there to be some people sleeping in their palaces tonight, served by 100s of people, stomachs filled with the finest food, none of it paid for, whilst there are others more able and hard working that will consider themselves fortunate if they don't go to bed hungry - and all based on so called 'birth right'. How can this be right? How can it be supported?

[HattonTheHammer]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

[Howlin Mad Missy]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

you silly tart

[El Kabong]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

I can't decide if you Brits think you live in some fantasy wonderland with castles and dragonsor if you're all just a bunch of Mo's


....it's even more funny when you try to figure out which group the Chav's fit in.

[ono]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

Fuck me, we're as intelligent as Bees

[ono]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

Actually, where does wanking fall into that?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

As an englishman everything you do day to day is all based around serving and protecting your queen and country

If you dont like living under a monarchy, dont live here, simple !!

Actually, where does wanking fall into that?

Standing proud thinking of the Queen