Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
erics44
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Originally Posted by
KananKrus
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he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
Is this in jest? I do really hope so.... otherwise the consequence is unthinkable for quite a few...maybe in hundreds of millions boxing aficionados worldwide stands accused for their consensus of massively over-rating an "entertainer", masquerading as one of the greatest boxers of all time, in Muhammad Ali!
yep i agree he was one of the greatest boxers of all time, and posibly up until his time in history was the best HW of all time
things move on tho, athletes get bigger and stronger and better
ali at his best wouldnt have beaten lewis at his best
the brazil football team of 1970 (considered the best of all time) wouldnt have beaten the brazil football team of 2010
I hate to admit it but I agree with this wholeheartedly... I'm sure ICB made a good point of this not so long ago...
Times change man.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
About Foreman being too small for Lewis.
Prime Briggs around 6'4" 225-230 in the 90s managed to seriously rock Lewis in their fight and Oliver McCall who was around 6'2" and around 225-230 ko Lewis, not to mentioned Rahman who was also 6'2" and around 230 managed to ko Lewis also.
I guess they weren't too small eh? But Prime George at 6'3 and around 220-230 is considered to be too small without a chance. Laughable.
Briggs had serious hand speed you muppet :vd:
And regarding the KO's, well you saw what happend when Lewis brought his A game.
Thats what it pretty much all boils down to. What version of each guy we are talking about.
Both guys on their best nights? Lewis most of the time IMO.
Didn't in 1 of your 1st posts you said George Foreman was too small for Lewis? And your other countrymen also believed Lewis is too big for George physically. And that's what I'm addressing, that Foreman was not too small and that he can ko Lewis. People here in this thread are making out that prime Foreman was a small hw that couldn't compete physically with him.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
We already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
We already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)
Lewis was ahead 39-37 on all 3 cards
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
erics44
i reckon lewis would have won 9 times out of 10 against foreman at any stage of his carear
the klits and lewis are the best three fighters in the history of the heavyweights
Are you fucking stoned? Yeah Ali would have folded like Lewis did against a drug addled McCall, and quit like Vitali against a pillow puncher like Chris Byrd with a few rounds to go. Sore arm my ass...Ali fought with a broken jaw against Ken Norton for ten rounds. Oh yeah sure and Ali would have laid down against a guy of Corrie Sanders level like Wlad. Give me a break.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
Oh and you don't think Joe Louis didn't chop guys the Klits size down in his day? How about Abe Simon and Buddy Baer? Or Dempsey? Who'd he win the title from? 6'5" Jess Willard.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I would seriously give even a young George a good to decent shot at beating any version of Lewis. Why you ask? Foreman is one of the hardest hitting HWs ever, hell it could be argued that he may be the hardest hitting HW of all time. When you lift a 215 pound Frazier off the canvas with 1 of your uppercuts, that's a hell a lot of power and strength. Lewis too iffy of a chin. Sure young George was reckless, but if he connected it would be lights out on Lewis, best believe that.
Here's another what if concerning Foreman. What if the prime Foreman had the boxing smarts and maturity of the old Foreman? That would be 1 hell of a fighter. :o
Lewis took hits from Tua fine, and Foreman was also a relatively plodding fighter, how would he have teld with Lennox's jab? Also Lewis was able to land a shot as hard as anyone, and he could have knocked young FOreman out cold.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
erics44
i reckon lewis would have won 9 times out of 10 against foreman at any stage of his carear
the klits and lewis are the best three fighters in the history of the heavyweights
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you fucking crack me up!
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, and hell even Holyfield have all accomplished more than Lewis and the Klitschko's, better opposition and more career defining fights, and definitely more skilled
ps: by your own admission then Haye isn't shit compared to Wlad or Vitali then
Who did Holmes and Frazier beat that made their resume better than Lewis or Holyfield's?
Besides a Ali, who did Joe beat of any great consequence? Even the Klitschko brother's beat more impressive opposition than most of the guys Joe beat.
Are you going to say Ellis and Quary are amazing fighters? Or Chuvalo?
Same with Holmes. He fought in a weaker division than it is right now.
Lewis would have likely beaten any heavyweight in the history of the sport if he was properly trained. Nobody had his combination of intelligence, athleticism, size, skill, and heart.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
We already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)
Lewis was ahead 39-37 on all 3 cards
Was he?! :-\
Okay shame on me but I'm sure it was evident that he was boxing very poorly.
Didn't he have bad preparations or something ???
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
We already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)
Lewis was ahead 39-37 on all 3 cards
Was he?! :-\
Okay shame on me but I'm sure it was evident that he was boxing very poorly.
Didn't he have bad preparations or something ???
Yes Lewis was not fully prepared, he was blowing and was stupid to let his hands down. The two KO's at the prime of his career let him down as an ATG.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
Lewis was to busy filming that Nicolas Cage film to be training
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
If I'm not mistaken the movie that Lewis was busy shooting was Ocean's Eleven and it also had Wlad in it too.
Re: I'm addicted to what-ifs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Boogie Man
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)
When Lewis didn't train, cardio has a lot to do with your chin. Look how Lewis did against Tua's punches when they landed, Vitali Klitschko's, Mike Tyson's early on. His chin was more htan good enough, but stylistically he would have never fought FOreman with such reckless abandon as he did against Rahman and the first McCall fight(which shouldn't have been stopped).
Foreman was almost ko'ed by Ron Lyle, and Ali knocked him out, neither of them could hit as hard as Lewis.
My point is that Foreman's advantages were in his size and power when he was younger. He developped more boxing skills later in his career, but in his youth he was a pretty rudimentary fighter.
