Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
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Originally Posted by
JT Rock
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
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Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Looks like he wasn't faking
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that
you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this,
the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.
Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.
Yea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
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Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
A dislocated shoulder look very clear on xray -see the one below! -
1.the green arrow shows where the socket has been forced
2. the red arrow shows the little 'cup' or socket where it should be resting to provide a fulcrum for the shoulder muscles to move it.
Clearly the arm cant be used when its not in its cup/socket, as theres nothing for its head to rest against, so real forces cannot be exerted to move it. And theres no way a useful doctor can misinterpret the change in position.
Even touching the surface of the skin should be enough to reveal that the socket's head isnt where it should be, if you cant feel the arm bone underneath the top of the shoulder, its certainly dislocated - you can do this on yourself, start weith the shoulder bone right at the top of your shoulder nearest your neck at the highest point possible, move your fingers out until you loose contact with bone, theres a tiny gap and then a return to bone - that new bone is part of that 'ball' the arm bone, and thats where it should be with a non dislocated shoulder.
Observe the Xray pic below - the ball of the arm bone, even to the layman's eyes, can be seen directly out of the shoulder's concave socket it should be sitting in. Its very clear cut.
(This is an anterior dislocation, the most common one and the likely on Bhop suffered).
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Well, I think that it was a very bad call but I think that it did happen a bit because of Hopkins injury;
- Wrong because it is boxing, not wrestling and that this happened in a grapple contest, for a moment I felt like Dawson was a kind of Randy Couture, minus the heart and charisma.
- Something Hopkins called for because he has a long history of faking all sort of things in order to save time. Would Hopkins never have done that, perhaps Russell would have make the good decision instead of this awful judgement.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Quote:
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.
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Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.
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In an x-ray, there is no gray area with regards to diagnosing a dislocation. They can ask for different views of the same shoulder and it will either be dislocated or it isn't.
I don't buy that, i'd bet if you got 5 radiologists looking at the x-rays you might get 5 different opinions, some might even say the shoulder was only bruised.
Hopkins had already pushed Dawson to the canvas once, when he tried to do it again, Dawson got pissed and pushed him off of him and Hopkins went down hard to the canvas. The way I see it Dawson just wasn't going to put up with any more of Hop's dirty bullshit and you can't really blame him for that.
The con man got what he deserved, end of story.
Prove your claim, are you a Dr or a radiologist? I imagine you are well schooled in medicine, perhaps even an expert seeing you can just throw out statements like they are a matter of fact;)
Of course i'm not a radiologist, but what I do know is Doctors and/or Radiologists fuck up diagnostics on a regular basis. And i'm not making a "claim", i'm giving an opinion, are you intelligent enough to understand the difference? It's a boxing forum, that's what we do here dimwit, talk about boxing.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Looks like he wasn't faking
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that
you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this,
the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.
Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.
Yea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
Such a stupid post. So you think this first ballot hall of famer, arguably the greatest middleweight of all time, quit because he had a hunch Dawson was going to do be able to put it on him later in the fight and he wouldn't be able to hang with him?
If this was the case, then why, pray tell did he stay in there with Jean Pascal, the conquerer of Dawson, after being floored twice and and being way down on the scorecards? Why didn't he look for a way to get a DQ in that fight, rather than turning it all around with a beautiful boxing lesson?
Did he sense that Pascal, despite flooring him twice was going to wilt in the later rounds, whereas as his spider senses alerted him to the fact that Dawson was going to come on strong?
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Looks like he wasn't faking
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that
you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this,
the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.
Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.
Yea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
Such a stupid post. So you think this first ballot hall of famer, arguably the greatest middleweight of all time, quit because he had a hunch Dawson was going to do be able to put it on him later in the fight and he wouldn't be able to hang with him?
If this was the case, then why, pray tell did he stay in there with Jean Pascal, the conquerer of Dawson, after being floored twice and and being way down on the scorecards? Why didn't he look for a way to get a DQ in that fight, rather than turning it all around with a beautiful boxing lesson?
Did he sense that Pascal, despite flooring him twice was going to wilt in the later rounds, whereas as his spider senses alerted him to the fact that Dawson was going to come on strong?
Both fighters landed 5 punches in the 1st round, and the 2nd round looked like another stalemate aswell. I don't see where all this Chad Dawson was winning idea has come from, i didn't see any fighter having an advantage.
It probably would of ended up alot like Taylor/Hopkins, a very close controversial decision IMO.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RohanKnight
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
A dislocated shoulder look very clear on xray -see the one below! -
1.the green arrow shows where the socket has been forced
2. the red arrow shows the little 'cup' or socket where it should be resting to provide a fulcrum for the shoulder muscles to move it.
Clearly the arm cant be used when its not in its cup/socket, as theres nothing for its head to rest against, so real forces cannot be exerted to move it. And theres no way a useful doctor can misinterpret the change in position.
Even touching the surface of the skin should be enough to reveal that the socket's head isnt where it should be, if you cant feel the arm bone underneath the top of the shoulder, its certainly dislocated - you can do this on yourself, start weith the shoulder bone right at the top of your shoulder nearest your neck at the highest point possible, move your fingers out until you loose contact with bone, theres a tiny gap and then a return to bone - that new bone is part of that 'ball' the arm bone, and thats where it should be with a non dislocated shoulder.
Observe the Xray pic below - the ball of the arm bone, even to the layman's eyes, can be seen directly out of the shoulder's concave socket it should be sitting in. Its very clear cut.
(This is an anterior dislocation, the most common one and the likely on Bhop suffered).
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RohanKnight
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
A dislocated shoulder look very clear on xray -see the one below! -
1.the green arrow shows where the socket has been forced
2. the red arrow shows the little 'cup' or socket where it should be resting to provide a fulcrum for the shoulder muscles to move it.
Clearly the arm cant be used when its not in its cup/socket, as theres nothing for its head to rest against, so real forces cannot be exerted to move it. And theres no way a useful doctor can misinterpret the change in position.
Even touching the surface of the skin should be enough to reveal that the socket's head isnt where it should be, if you cant feel the arm bone underneath the top of the shoulder, its certainly dislocated - you can do this on yourself, start weith the shoulder bone right at the top of your shoulder nearest your neck at the highest point possible, move your fingers out until you loose contact with bone, theres a tiny gap and then a return to bone - that new bone is part of that 'ball' the arm bone, and thats where it should be with a non dislocated shoulder.
Observe the Xray pic below - the ball of the arm bone, even to the layman's eyes, can be seen directly out of the shoulder's concave socket it should be sitting in. Its very clear cut.
(This is an anterior dislocation, the most common one and the likely on Bhop suffered).
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Personally I have no doubt it was a genuine injury, these shoulder injuries happen a lot of you stay in contact sport after 35. The body starts losing minute amounts of muscle all over the body after 30 and some of intricate muscles cant be rebuilt with weight training, and some of the shoulder muscles are very intricate and small. Once they start to go, its a slippery slope and you need to quit sport soon.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
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Such a stupid post.
Thank you Bilbo, I didn't bother reading the rest of it.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
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Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
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haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Just curious, isn't an injury like that really painful? If so, why was Hopkins walking around like nothing had happened after the fight? I'm not questioning whether Hopkins had some sort of minor injury, just the severity of it.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
I must be losing my mind. In life a mans reputation follows him and is duely noted. In the ring it is assumed by fans and people involved, a fighters traits etc etc.
But in the ring you are penalized, deducted points, reprimanded and in some cases disqualified for shady behavior or what is considered illegal....not guile...not cagey and not gritty happenings frankly you DO see in the vast majority of fights...headbutts...holding...whateva. We are painting with a huge brush and I think the generality with which some paint Hopkins as the reemergence of Galento-Agipito Sanchez-Golota combined is borderline loony tunes. Get a grip.
It IS NOT a officials place to hold those incidents as a red card to issue at the 1st sign of a fight going sideways. You take control and start knocking heads and acting like the MFIC wearing the blue, not cop out on the back of a shit move the other guy responds with. You cannot make it up as you go and pick and chose calling a fair fight and instead play double jeopardy. Its not in the hands of the other fighter to himself disregard being 'clean' and suddenly turn Sumo wrangler in frustration, then run around thumping his chest like he's actually proud to have won like that. The stuff WE tolerate.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
Quote:
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Just curious, isn't an injury like that really painful? If so, why was Hopkins walking around like nothing had happened after the fight? I'm not questioning whether Hopkins had some sort of minor injury, just the severity of it.
So first of all he was faking and acting as clearly it wasn't a painful fall, now he's not faked it enough as you think he should have been writhing about more. :-\
I think you need to read the rest of my previous post.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
Quote:
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Just curious, isn't an injury like that really painful? If so, why was Hopkins walking around like nothing had happened after the fight? I'm not questioning whether Hopkins had some sort of minor injury, just the severity of it.
to me it looked like he was in a lot of pain, he was bawling at everyone, allowing for fight adrenaline.
However if you arent moving it, the pain is minimised, and he wasnt moving it MUCH. If he'd had to try and lift it to keep fighting, phewf... you'd have seen a different Bernado.
Using a good fictional reference, in the MMA movie Warrior (SPOILER -LOOK AWAY NOW if you've not seen it).......
........... I think he gets his shoulder dislocated in the last fight. He was as good as dead then, and hurting with every step. That might have been a broken arm though? I wqas too busy facepalming the crap ending to the movie to take full note.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
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Both fighters landed 5 punches in the 1st round, and the 2nd round looked like another stalemate aswell. I don't see where all this Chad Dawson was winning idea has come from, i didn't see any fighter having an advantage.
It probably would of ended up alot like Taylor/Hopkins, a very close controversial decision IMO.
Ledderman had Dawson winning the 1st round and so did I, for being busier and the aggressor, the 2nd round is anybody's guess because of course it ended early.
No telling how the fight would have ended were it not for the stoppage. I liked what I was seeing from Dawson, but you're probably correct, it likely would have ended in a close controversial decision.
Re: Doctor's Report on Hopkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
Quote:
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Just curious, isn't an injury like that really painful? If so, why was Hopkins walking around like nothing had happened after the fight? I'm not questioning whether Hopkins had some sort of minor injury, just the severity of it.
So first of all he was faking and acting as clearly it wasn't a painful fall, now he's not faked it enough as you think he should have been writhing about more. :-\
I think you need to read the rest of my previous post.
Huh? I'm not sure what you're saying here, Hopkins has a history of being theatrical, so I question the severity of the "injury", and whether some of the "writhing about" on the canvas wasn't histrionics. Just sayin' this isn't the first time Hopkins has pulled some tricky bullshit, so it's not unreasonable to suspect, that at least some of his behavior was bogus.
