Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Macklin was a hype job... I wouldn't put any stock in that. If Golovkin had stopped Froch or even Bute (which he probably could have stopped Bute at middle or super middle, at least) then you would have impressed me.
The only thing with this Macklin fight for Golovkin was to compare it to the Martinez fight. If Martinez takes this Golovkin challenge that's brewing, he WILL lose and he will retire shortly afterwards.
A lot of people were shocked that Martinez took the Chavez fight, and did WELL in it too. Well, did well up until the last round- but he surprised me.
But then again, perhaps we had Chavez up too high- higher than he was supposed to have been?
:cool:
Lucky for Golovkin hes not tryinmg to impress you. Martinez was favorite to beat Chavez and most people, including me, thought he would do so comfortably. If Golovkin fights Martinez he will be a good fav with the bookies too and will most likely stop Martinez but given Martinez' latest performances I dont see how that would be any more impressive then stopping Macklin.
Your opinion of fighters is poor, your predictions of how fights will go are poor and your overall judgment of boxing is poor. You need to learn a lot more about the game before questioning fighters abilities.
GTMF out of here. I have not made a prediction on a fight in God knows when... Macklin is what he is- a hyped of scrub. He was going to be blasted by Golovkin, and we all know it. STFU!!!
I have also said Golovkin is the real deal- made a post about it to. So I don't know WTMF you're on.
:mad:
Your post is retarded. If he knocked out Froch or Bute that would have impressed you. Moron. He knocked out Bute in amateurs. He is not in the same weight division. So to impress you you have to jump up in weight and KO the top guys in the division.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
I don't think GGG needs to step up to 168, until he can't make 160 safely. Allegedly, he comes to camp weighing 167, which means getting to 160 should be no problem for him. If the other middleweight continue to duck him, he'll have to look elsewhere, but let's wait to see if that happens. I am of the opinion that HBO made the Geale-Barker August fight for the purpose of supplying a challenger to the Golovkin/Macklin winner, especially considering that Martinez is out until Spring 2014. Also, Junior is facing Vera in September. Once he beats Vera, he's a viable opponent for GGG.
If I'm Golovkin, I wait to see if I can fight the winner of Geale/Barker or Junior/Vera, before I considering moving up in weight to face the top super middleweights. There's nothing wrong with dominating a division.
The odd man left out in the division is Kid Chocolate. Quillin hasn't had any significant wins at 160, other than against N'Jikam, who thoroughly outboxed him for much of the fight. I suspect Kid Chocolate will face Rosado next.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Who else is out there though? Quillin?
I dunno, Martinez just seemedto be falling apart in his last fight, and I've always thought he was overrated to begin with. To me, Golovkin looks a lot better than Sergio ever did.
Again, I think GGG should stay at 160 for a while, but he's a far cry from just a puncher. He doesn't rely on his physicality or fight in spurts, very patient and calculated approach. No reason to start lumping him in with an Arthur Abraham just yet.
I cant agree with Martinez overrated to begin with. He beat very good fighters in Williams
and Pavlik at middle where he was the smaller man. He made a show of Chavez who we all know was overrated but is still a good scalp. He also has a very fun style to watch and imo deserves the credit he is getting now as I dont think he got enough credit earlier in his career. His last few fights tho (particularly the Murray fight) he is clearly showing signs of decline and the fact that he is constantly getting injured really shows his age is having an affect. I personally dont want to see him fight GGG because I think it would end badly for
Martinez and would much prefer to see him go out on a high rather then a low. If i was him Id fight the winner of Geale v Barker (probably Geale) and if he wins that retire at the top.
With that. He's a compliment to the sport in a time of loud mouth puffed up divas collecting trinkets. His style isn't for everyone but I'd rather a guy come professional, work his ass off and save his cockiness for the ring and back it up. He and Golovkin are at that point this sport has been paved with and a crossroads meet can only be expected, personally I'd like to see it come off. Physically Golovkin might make him feel every month of his age in his legs but I guarantee damn tee you Martinez won't just lay down and hand over what he's labored to earn and style wise show Golovkin some serious new suprises. If not Martinez, give me Quillin. I like that one!
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Who else is out there though? Quillin?
I dunno, Martinez just seemedto be falling apart in his last fight, and I've always thought he was overrated to begin with. To me, Golovkin looks a lot better than Sergio ever did.
Again, I think GGG should stay at 160 for a while, but he's a far cry from just a puncher. He doesn't rely on his physicality or fight in spurts, very patient and calculated approach. No reason to start lumping him in with an Arthur Abraham just yet.
I cant agree with Martinez overrated to begin with. He beat very good fighters in Williams and Pavlik at middle where he was the smaller man. He made a show of Chavez who we all know was overrated but is still a good scalp. He also has a very fun style to watch and imo deserves the credit he is getting now as I dont think he got enough credit earlier in his career. His last few fights tho (particularly the Murray fight) he is clearly showing signs of decline and the fact that he is constantly getting injured really shows his age is having an affect. I personally dont want to see him fight GGG because I think it would end badly for Martinez and would much prefer to see him go out on a high rather then a low. If i was him Id fight the winner of Geale v Barker (probably Geale) and if he wins that retire at the top.
He drew with Williams the first time around, and Paul was still really a super welterweight himself and stupidly easy to hit. Pavlik was coming off the HOpkins drupping and still gave Martinez a competitive fight, and those two scalps are about all Martinez needed to be regarded as a dominant champion in the eyes of many, I just never saw it. He didn't really do anything early in his career. I liked watching Sergio, very good athlete no question, but without his legs I don't think he's even a threat to Golovkin myself.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
In my opinion, if anyone has been overrated its Kid Choc. Seems like a nice dude, but he hasn't done much at middleweight.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Who else is out there though? Quillin?
I dunno, Martinez just seemedto be falling apart in his last fight, and I've always thought he was overrated to begin with. To me, Golovkin looks a lot better than Sergio ever did.
Again, I think GGG should stay at 160 for a while, but he's a far cry from just a puncher. He doesn't rely on his physicality or fight in spurts, very patient and calculated approach. No reason to start lumping him in with an Arthur Abraham just yet.
I cant agree with Martinez overrated to begin with. He beat very good fighters in Williams and Pavlik at middle where he was the smaller man. He made a show of Chavez who we all know was overrated but is still a good scalp. He also has a very fun style to watch and imo deserves the credit he is getting now as I dont think he got enough credit earlier in his career. His last few fights tho (particularly the Murray fight) he is clearly showing signs of decline and the fact that he is constantly getting injured really shows his age is having an affect. I personally dont want to see him fight GGG because I think it would end badly for Martinez and would much prefer to see him go out on a high rather then a low. If i was him Id fight the winner of Geale v Barker (probably Geale) and if he wins that retire at the top.
He drew with Williams the first time around, and Paul was still really a super welterweight himself and stupidly easy to hit. Pavlik was coming off the HOpkins drupping and still gave Martinez a competitive fight, and those two scalps are about all Martinez needed to be regarded as a dominant champion in the eyes of many, I just never saw it. He didn't really do anything early in his career. I liked watching Sergio, very good athlete no question, but without his legs I don't think he's even a threat to Golovkin myself.
Frankly, it's all personal opinion, an argument can be made that he effectively cleaned out the division. Prior to the win over Macklin, as many have mentioned, Golovkin hadn't done much in the division. Before that, Martinez beat all of the British guys (Barker, Macklin, Murray) whom were all ranked in the top ten on most lists when he faced them. He also beat the biggest cash cow in the division in Junior, who was also top 5 in the division, and he beat the lineal champion at middleweight in Pavlik. After Hopkins beat Pavlik at 170 no less, Pavlik beat Rubio, who later beat Lemiuex. So, I would argue that Pavlik wasn't finished when he faced Martinez. When Martinez faced Paul Williams, no one wanted a piece of the Punisher. With 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say he was easy to hit, but at the time, no one wanted to face him, Mayweather included. Also, Martinez himself started his career at welterweight, and in my opinion, was a small middleweight in his prime, even if now he has grown into it.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Macklin was a hype job... I wouldn't put any stock in that. If Golovkin had stopped Froch or even Bute (which he probably could have stopped Bute at middle or super middle, at least) then you would have impressed me.
The only thing with this Macklin fight for Golovkin was to compare it to the Martinez fight. If Martinez takes this Golovkin challenge that's brewing, he WILL lose and he will retire shortly afterwards.
A lot of people were shocked that Martinez took the Chavez fight, and did WELL in it too. Well, did well up until the last round- but he surprised me.
But then again, perhaps we had Chavez up too high- higher than he was supposed to have been?
:cool:
Lucky for Golovkin hes not tryinmg to impress you. Martinez was favorite to beat Chavez and most people, including me, thought he would do so comfortably. If Golovkin fights Martinez he will be a good fav with the bookies too and will most likely stop Martinez but given Martinez' latest performances I dont see how that would be any more impressive then stopping Macklin.
Your opinion of fighters is poor, your predictions of how fights will go are poor and your overall judgment of boxing is poor. You need to learn a lot more about the game before questioning fighters abilities.
GTMF out of here. I have not made a prediction on a fight in God knows when... Macklin is what he is- a hyped of scrub. He was going to be blasted by Golovkin, and we all know it. STFU!!!
I have also said Golovkin is the real deal- made a post about it to. So I don't know WTMF you're on.
:mad:
Your post is retarded. If he knocked out Froch or Bute that would have impressed you. Moron. He knocked out Bute in amateurs. He is not in the same weight division. So to impress you you have to jump up in weight and KO the top guys in the division.
Dude... don't be a Sam dass... fighters move up in weight all the time. He will most likely move up in weight to do exactly what fighters do- make fights.
And, you are over-stating how I said Golovkin fighting those guys at that weight or a catch weight meant would "impress" me. It was not meant to infer that I would have been impressed to the point that I am not already impressed, which I am. You over-thought the word impressed... which is fine.
I have said, and will continue to say, Golovkin is the real deal and I think he is a great champion. Secondly, Macklin is a hype job. A tin can. Similar to how Gavin Reese went up against a somewhat top guy in Broner and the rest is history... I'm not that impressed with that win against Macklin because he was expected to tear him to pieces.
If you wish me to say this: if he fights, MOVES UP (which you make sound as if it has never happened before, ever) and take on stiffer competition at a higher weight if he can, particularly a top guy, then he would have impressed me MORE THAN how he demolished the tin can in Macklin last night.
It was an easy night of work, much like how Broner had easier nights of work with Reese and Malinaggi.
STFU...
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Who else is out there though? Quillin?
I dunno, Martinez just seemedto be falling apart in his last fight, and I've always thought he was overrated to begin with. To me, Golovkin looks a lot better than Sergio ever did.
Again, I think GGG should stay at 160 for a while, but he's a far cry from just a puncher. He doesn't rely on his physicality or fight in spurts, very patient and calculated approach. No reason to start lumping him in with an Arthur Abraham just yet.
I cant agree with Martinez overrated to begin with. He beat very good fighters in Williams and Pavlik at middle where he was the smaller man. He made a show of Chavez who we all know was overrated but is still a good scalp. He also has a very fun style to watch and imo deserves the credit he is getting now as I dont think he got enough credit earlier in his career. His last few fights tho (particularly the Murray fight) he is clearly showing signs of decline and the fact that he is constantly getting injured really shows his age is having an affect. I personally dont want to see him fight GGG because I think it would end badly for Martinez and would much prefer to see him go out on a high rather then a low. If i was him Id fight the winner of Geale v Barker (probably Geale) and if he wins that retire at the top.
He drew with Williams the first time around, and Paul was still really a super welterweight himself and stupidly easy to hit. Pavlik was coming off the HOpkins drupping and still gave Martinez a competitive fight, and those two scalps are about all Martinez needed to be regarded as a dominant champion in the eyes of many, I just never saw it. He didn't really do anything early in his career. I liked watching Sergio, very good athlete no question, but without his legs I don't think he's even a threat to Golovkin myself.
Frankly, it's all personal opinion, an argument can be made that he effectively cleaned out the division. Prior to the win over Macklin, as many have mentioned, Golovkin hadn't done much in the division. Before that, Martinez beat all of the British guys (Barker, Macklin, Murray) whom were all ranked in the top ten on most lists when he faced them. He also beat the biggest cash cow in the division in Junior, who was also top 5 in the division, and he beat the lineal champion at middleweight in Pavlik. After Hopkins beat Pavlik at 170 no less, Pavlik beat Rubio, who later beat Lemiuex. So, I would argue that Pavlik wasn't finished when he faced Martinez. When Martinez faced Paul Williams, no one wanted a piece of the Punisher. With 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say he was easy to hit, but at the time, no one wanted to face him, Mayweather included. Also, Martinez himself started his career at welterweight, and in my opinion, was a small middleweight in his prime, even if now he has grown into it.
Yup fair points, you can pick anyones record apart in the end. I just never thought Sergio actually had the boxing skills to warrant being rated the way he was for a while, I suppose. He's lucky he didn't run into a really talented middleweight if you ask me. Still maintain that the Junior fight actually counts against him as well, since he was so badly hurt at the end. Jr was, and isn't dick all as a fighter after all imo.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
He'll go where the money is, he is the best Middleweight right now but if the others refuse to meet him theres nothing to do but move on! This is prize fighting ($$$$$$) you fight the guys who will add to your bank account theres no reason to fight lesser talents but if the best availble are afraid to risk whatever theres nothing you can do!
The reason Sugar Ray fought Jake 5 times was because no one at that time was interested in fighting them! He's not that small for 168 he's just under 5'11" and has decent reach and walks around at 172lbs! He's probably in great shape at 162 so fight night he could be comfortable at 171-2
if Ward is at 180 fight night 10 pounds means little because Ward isn't hanging around inside all night!
You have to go where the money is, its a job to the fighter! Its a sport to the fans! Ray
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
He didn't really do anything early in his career
Oh I don't know. Back in the day he was as partial to smashing lumps off of British light middles who fancied themselves as 'Word class'. No one fancied fighting him back then.
These days stick those two facts together you've got yourself a bona fide bad ass mother fucker who'll destroy anything that's put in front of him.
I think Golovkin should just go straight at Andre Ward. Its quickly becoming apparent that there is nothing else at 160/168 to challenge him.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
In my opinion, if anyone has been overrated its Kid Choc. Seems like a nice dude, but he hasn't done much at middleweight.
I think thats unfair yeh. Its hard to be considered "overrated" when your the 3rd undercard fight up on Danny Garcia and Paulie Malignaggi cards. The guy is obviously improved from 1,2 years ago and has been a champion a total of 8 months, with a single defense vs a guy he was favored against, not terribly different from Golovkin going into his last 3. Like him or not, he's a player and I think hes far from a walking corpse vs Golovkin. Once again, I hope we get that chance to see
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Who else is out there though? Quillin?
I dunno, Martinez just seemedto be falling apart in his last fight, and I've always thought he was overrated to begin with. To me, Golovkin looks a lot better than Sergio ever did.
Again, I think GGG should stay at 160 for a while, but he's a far cry from just a puncher. He doesn't rely on his physicality or fight in spurts, very patient and calculated approach. No reason to start lumping him in with an Arthur Abraham just yet.
I cant agree with Martinez overrated to begin with. He beat very good fighters in Williams and Pavlik at middle where he was the smaller man. He made a show of Chavez who we all know was overrated but is still a good scalp. He also has a very fun style to watch and imo deserves the credit he is getting now as I dont think he got enough credit earlier in his career. His last few fights tho (particularly the Murray fight) he is clearly showing signs of decline and the fact that he is constantly getting injured really shows his age is having an affect. I personally dont want to see him fight GGG because I think it would end badly for Martinez and would much prefer to see him go out on a high rather then a low. If i was him Id fight the winner of Geale v Barker (probably Geale) and if he wins that retire at the top.
He drew with Williams the first time around, and Paul was still really a super welterweight himself and stupidly easy to hit. Pavlik was coming off the HOpkins drupping and still gave Martinez a competitive fight, and those two scalps are about all Martinez needed to be regarded as a dominant champion in the eyes of many, I just never saw it. He didn't really do anything early in his career. I liked watching Sergio, very good athlete no question, but without his legs I don't think he's even a threat to Golovkin myself.
Frankly, it's all personal opinion, an argument can be made that he effectively cleaned out the division. Prior to the win over Macklin, as many have mentioned, Golovkin hadn't done much in the division. Before that, Martinez beat all of the British guys (Barker, Macklin, Murray) whom were all ranked in the top ten on most lists when he faced them. He also beat the biggest cash cow in the division in Junior, who was also top 5 in the division, and he beat the lineal champion at middleweight in Pavlik. After Hopkins beat Pavlik at 170 no less, Pavlik beat Rubio, who later beat Lemiuex. So, I would argue that Pavlik wasn't finished when he faced Martinez. When Martinez faced Paul Williams, no one wanted a piece of the Punisher. With 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say he was easy to hit, but at the time, no one wanted to face him, Mayweather included. Also, Martinez himself started his career at welterweight, and in my opinion, was a small middleweight in his prime, even if now he has grown into it.
Yup fair points, you can pick anyones record apart in the end. I just never thought Sergio actually had the boxing skills to warrant being rated the way he was for a while, I suppose. He's lucky he didn't run into a really talented middleweight if you ask me. Still maintain that the Junior fight actually counts against him as well, since he was so badly hurt at the end. Jr was, and isn't dick all as a fighter after all imo.
My man, I just don't get that last part at all. Not thinking high of a win based on comp I get, but a win counts -against- him because a guy gets hurt, survives, and actually ends the round battling back??? Crack is whack! Chavez may be a spoiled kid who snuck out wearing his fathers suit that was three sizes too big...but he has arguably come in at lt hvy in last couple of fights, bigger, stronger and if anything can bang. Martinez took it all and banged him back and clowned him. I mean come on. I think its a stretch.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Can't refute that, obviously saying it counts against him was stupid when I read it back. I just don't think it lends any creedence to his being regarded as a top fighter, Junior really was appaling for most of that scrap. If you look for it Sergio actually loses his legs in a big way a round or two before he gets into trouble there, and that's after being able to pretty well coast and work at his own pace up to the point. If he can't hold up 12 rounds fighting a heavy bag, I can't see him dealing with a serious puncher who has better skills than he does.
Re: Golovkin at super middle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Can't refute that, obviously saying it counts against him was stupid when I read it back. I just don't think it lends any creedence to his being regarded as a top fighter, Junior really was appaling for most of that scrap. If you look for it Sergio actually loses his legs in a big way a round or two before he gets into trouble there, and that's after being able to pretty well coast and work at his own pace up to the point. If he can't hold up 12 rounds fighting a heavy bag, I can't see him dealing with a serious puncher who has better skills than he does.
Junior is a bloated tool and Martinez did what he was supposed to but he really did give him his only chance, he traded late and as he often does, got cocky and takes some hits. Martinez had alot to do with shutting fat boy down. I see the toll on his mobility and for his style he'll feel the age two fold from a guy who is determined to sit on your chest from the first round and knows body-head variation like Golo. His short shot jab to the chest can shut movement down but we haven't seen much. You fight with your legs and foot placement as much as you do with the hands no doubt and he'll need every bit plus some but on the flip side, Golovkin hasn't seen substance and angles like Martinez.
