Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Andre doesn't possess a style of fighting that sells tickets...but unfortunately for him...he also does not possess a personality (Floyd) to sell tickets either. And i can tell you from watching his career up close...the guy just doesn't want to promote himself outside of the bay area. He really makes no effort. Maybe he is ok with that. if he isn't...he has to shake things up for himself.
Most guys aren't comfortable playing a "character" like Floyd, Haye, ect do. And most guys can't pull it off without look transparent, even if they wanted to.
The fact is, being in the top 3 best should be enough. The fact that it isn't spells a lot of trouble for boxing. It means that boxing is no longer about sport, it's about spectacle, and boxing IS NOT going to out-spectacle the UFC in the long run. Boxing is not going to compete in the "blood" game with guys getting kicked and elbowed in the head.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
The goal of boxing is to hit and not get hit. It's not Andre Ward's responsibility to make sure he gets punched and knocked down a bunch of times so his fights are exciting and compelling. That responsibility lies with his opponent.
To ask a guy to fight stupidly just for the sake of entertainment is ridiculous. Don't hate on Ward, hate on his 168lb peers who haven't been good enough to make a compelling fight with him.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
The issue I take with the theory of the gatti like opponent for ward is why is it onus on the opponent to make ward exciting/entertaining? I'll also argue that Ward had already had an opportunity of this when he ko'd the weight drained and technically flawed dawson. Dawson was in enough of the public's eye and ward looked good enough dropping dawson that he could have fought another name after that and turned it up maximizing his start status.
I have to agree with Ross on this one. The unpalatable style of Ward as well as the fact that he's a primadonna (wants to fight in oakland, only in his weight, wont fight his friend, Direll) stifles any star power he could had. For those making the mayweather comparisons. Floyd offering to fight maidana the way he did, was was stupid but it made the fight more interesting for the casual fans, as does him acting like an a$$ outside the ring... but Floyds ability to stand in front of an opponents and use head movement and shoulder roles to frustrate them while they flail away still has one important thing over both Rigo and ward. It doesn't stop the action. The hug and slug style that ward uses where he lands a lead shot, ties you up and then hits you on the break not only stifles his own offense with the clinch, but it stifles the opponents too which creates lulls in the action. As does rigo's out running opponents by a country mile for the majority of a round and then sticking and landing sharp punches without following up (like a miniature direll). There are no punches being thrown, no offensive showcase and no defensive showcase when fighters are clinched and smothered or so far away from each other that they're out of range. Being aggressively offensive will win you fans and PPV dates but probably shorten your career. Being aggressively defensive tends to put you in the chris byrd or winky wright category. You'll beat some people by playing the spoiler, and extend your career, but noone wants to watch you. However he's going to complain about lack of opponents and money, step up or step out.
The problem lies in Ward's attitude. "If I beat Kovalev, then what?" In beating Kovalev, Ward would have moved up in weight and taken on a guy who is thrashing everyone he fights. Kovalev is arguably the most violent and imposing fighter in Ward's weight range. By beating him Ward would be showing that he's interested in furthering his career by challenging himself and striving to take on the best possible opposition. People may even respect him if he shows more talent than just hugging.
Also, Kovalev could in theory be Ward's Gatti. He's a very rough around the edges KO fighter that should be easily beat by a superior boxer like Ward.
Ward should take another champion hugger as an example. Wlad has no opposition. He's better than every other heavyweight, and has been for years. But he keeps fighting and he keeps destroying. He's beat so many shitty guys so convincingly for so many years that some people now believe he's possibly an ATG. Even tho most people hate Wlad's style just like they hate Ward's he's somehow got respect and history will be kind to him because his record is going to look like the record of a great fighter...and at least he bothered to fight and not just sit around saying things like "Yeah I could fight that guy...but then what?"
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Ward is my hometown fighter (Oakland). There is no question he is a great technician. BUT...it comes down to what boxing/sports are ultimately about......it's a business. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but it's a reality. Andre doesn't possess a style of fighting that sells tickets...but unfortunately for him...he also does not possess a personality (Floyd) to sell tickets either. And i can tell you from watching his career up close...the guy just doesn't want to promote himself outside of the bay area. He really makes no effort. Maybe he is ok with that. if he isn't...he has to shake things up for himself.
With all due respect I don't view it the way you do. I watch boxing for its built in diversity and the individualism it represents pugilisticly. I could give two shits about a bag of Doritos advertised on a banner or another slippery stupid decal on the ring apron. I watch it for what it is.
Its pretty freakin sad that in this enlightened day and age, pure boxers get kicked to the curb because they wont leave their tool box in the dressing room before they enter the ring. Boxing is actually devolving and its a group effort based on instant gratification from fans that don't know what a feint is to broadcasters who feed that weakness. Technically gifted pugilists expected to abandon the very skills that got them there because the fight has to be done before the pizza arrives. Its an enabler sandwich.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Andre doesn't possess a style of fighting that sells tickets...but unfortunately for him...he also does not possess a personality (Floyd) to sell tickets either. And i can tell you from watching his career up close...the guy just doesn't want to promote himself outside of the bay area. He really makes no effort. Maybe he is ok with that. if he isn't...he has to shake things up for himself.
Most guys aren't comfortable playing a "character" like Floyd, Haye, ect do. And most guys can't pull it off without look transparent, even if they wanted to.
The fact is, being in the top 3 best should be enough. The fact that it isn't spells a lot of trouble for boxing. It means that boxing is no longer about sport, it's about spectacle, and boxing IS NOT going to out-spectacle the UFC in the long run. Boxing is not going to compete in the "blood" game with guys getting kicked and elbowed in the head.
I am not disagreeing with you. The "casual" sports fan would rather see two guys pummel each other in a brawl. I am not a fan of it...but that is unfortunately the reality. Of course Andre can't transform himself into a Floyd like personality. But what he CAN do is make a better effort to promote himself nationally/internationally. You can't just sit around Oakland and expect people to come knocking on your door...regardless of how skilled he may be. At the end of the day....maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he is content being a god loving nice guy with a non crowd pleasing style. But if he isn't happy with his current situation...he is the only one that can try to change it.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
I just don't know what he can do himself personally. It takes a lot of money and backing to get a guy over. HBO invested HEAVILY in Floyd with all the 24/7 specials and promotion for the mega fights. In turn, Floyd expanded on that with appearances everywhere that made him a household name.
Floyd was in the exact same boat as Ward is now for years. He was under a promoter (Arum) who had no faith in his selling potential and was too busy devoting all his energy into DLH. Floyd was ducked because he was a super talent with no name value, so he couldn't get big fights because the big names wanted to fight other big names and didn't want to take a huge risk fighting Floyd for little reward.
It sucks. Andre is taking the right step now by trying to get away from Goossen, because they have proved to be absolutely USELESS in building Ward up.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Fuck me, I bet Mayorga could generate more viewers for a match with Golovkin than Ward could generate against Kovalev.
You have to sell yourself. As a pro boxer you are selling yourself to the fans. Tyson Fury is doing it now. You have to promote yourself. On top of being a good salesman you have to have a good product.
Now Mayorga may not have won all his fights but he certainly entertained in the build up and the fight itself, you always get value for money no matter who hes fighting.
Ward on the other hand cant sell fuck all and if he did, people would ask for their money back because he promised them a sublime display of fighting skill when all they ended up getting was a load of holding, mauling, elbowing and head butting.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Man. Maybe I'm off the cliff but I actually like Ward and just wished he would get his arse in the ring??? I think he has that gnarly grind and gritty style that you love in spots, but want to spray paint the screen black in others. I understand frustration and injury for him but you can't just go out and pop off about "if I were to fight Kovalev and win...then what" and expect someone to keep a straight face. Just start with fighting...someone. He took a bad rap on last fight as he embarrassed a decent challenger and had the tables turned. It was Rodriquez going dirty and ugly. He's letting it all pass him by as 175 is in a mix with Stevenson blowing out a top mutual victim, even Hopkins staying more active and unifying and at 168 Froch has banked two of his most impressive victories destroying Bute and Groves 2. Ward is a fookin craft master but if he wants to fall back on "then what" he can blame himself. That kinda tells me Kovalev has already sent him a welcome to the neighborhood basket..
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that he has no fights because no one wants to watch him anyways.
I hate his style, his boring fights and his attitude.
So yeah I don't give a shit, hope he retires.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
people are such idiots here. ward is the best in the world besides mayweather hands down. it doesnt matter if his style is boring or not. as boxing fans, we should want to see him fight. i understand casual fans not caring but those claiming to be boxing fans saying that they want ward to retire and not want to watch him fight because he is boring is ludicrous. seriously. wards talent doesnt come around very often. he is actually very underrated because people think that he is boring in and out of the ring. i question if some of you are actual fans of boxing.
i love watching ward fight just like i love watching mayweather fight. i love watching any tactician fight because i love boxing, not just brawling. i agree that ward should just fight kovalev if he has the opportunity, but i do understand that if ward beats him then kovalev will just be another bum. it would probably be better for him to take a few more fights at 168 then go up and wait until kovalev, stevenson, or bhop take each other out so that ward can fight the undisputed best LHW.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
The idea after all is to hit and not get hit
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
this is absolutely true
thing is tho, to attract the fans, get the fights and make the money, you have to have something that that is attractive to the fans
I personally think ward lacks that attraction in the ring and with his persona out of the ring, I think he deserves a break but I think there needs to be a rethink in his camp/promotion
he could be a superstar with a few tweaks
and like I say I think dropping the son of god name would be a massive start
But that's like asking Pep to fight like Saddler or Locche to fight like Jofre. Its not the boxers fault that some fight fans don't understand boxing and also make up the majority of the ppv buying public.Why should he dummy down his abilities to suit them? The two powder puncher defensive wizards I mentioned filled the house every time they fought.
I hear what you are saying, I don't actually think it is all to do with the way he fights, its also the way he is
change the name, say something interesting, fight outside America, go and interrupt a carl froch presser
he could fight someone hes got no chance of losing to and knock him out in a round, get a built up opponent or 2
he destroyed chad dawson at super middle, got little praise for it because people said chad was drained, so fight him again at light heavy, in chads home town
at the minute he just isn't interesting
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I don't feel bad for him at all but he does suffer from the same disease Rigo does. He's got to technically sound sickness. Odd that Floyd has been making 40 million a fight for more then 5 years suffering from the same illness.
Ward can blame himself for much of his downfall by waiting for everyone to knock on his door. What I don't get is why he has not moved up? Whats he waiting for or rather who. He could break the door down himself by whipping Stevenson or Kovalev. Those could be his Gatti's. Instead he sits and whines and goes on strike.
Floyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.
Dont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
Nah you guys are taking things to extremes.
The idea after all is to hit and not get hit
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
Ward is a safety first fighter and his style is a lot like Floyds especially in versatility. Rigo also shares that quality. Its like watching a surgeon. They almost make the opponent look silly and in so doing ruin the fight for that portion of the viewing public better suited to wearing togas. Him and Floyd share all kinds of qualities and subtle nuance. Wards also most likely the best switch hitter in boxing and can even do it on the fly and that's why there were so many bumps in the Kessler fight. Kessler was like a deer in the headlights.
Bullshit!
If Ward was made to fight by the rules he would look like he did against Bika in the last two rounds.
You don't like him. Fair enough. I don't either but I know a brilliant technician when I see one.
A technician? He has some technical ability but as others have pointed out, his whole style is based on mauling to break the action. If the refs stopped all the holding hed be fucked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
The goal of boxing is to hit and not get hit. It's not Andre Ward's responsibility to make sure he gets punched and knocked down a bunch of times so his fights are exciting and compelling. That responsibility lies with his opponent.
To ask a guy to fight stupidly just for the sake of entertainment is ridiculous. Don't hate on Ward, hate on his 168lb peers who haven't been good enough to make a compelling fight with him.
No ones asking him to fight stupidly. Just fight. Not maul and cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
people are such idiots here. ward is the best in the world besides mayweather hands down. it doesnt matter if his style is boring or not. as boxing fans, we should want to see him fight. i understand casual fans not caring but those claiming to be boxing fans saying that they want ward to retire and not want to watch him fight because he is boring is ludicrous. seriously. wards talent doesnt come around very often. he is actually very underrated because people think that he is boring in and out of the ring. i question if some of you are actual fans of boxing.
i love watching ward fight just like i love watching mayweather fight. i love watching any tactician fight because i love boxing, not just brawling. i agree that ward should just fight kovalev if he has the opportunity, but i do understand that if ward beats him then kovalev will just be another bum. it would probably be better for him to take a few more fights at 168 then go up and wait until kovalev, stevenson, or bhop take each other out so that ward can fight the undisputed best LHW.
People are not idiots here and its not just here its all over the world or Ward wouldnt be sat on the sidelines with no opponents.
Just like Wlad got criticised in his last fight, if the refs stopped Ward from grabbing then he wouldnt piss so many people off.
Look at the Kessler fight. Mikkel has such an attractive style of fighting, he never holds amd loves to let his hands go. Against Ward, Ward made such a horrendous fight and ripped Kesslers face to shreds with his cheating.
Kessler came back the next fight to give Froch his first loss. Kessler is a very good fighter, hence the extra cheatyness cutting up his face. Ward is good at cheating and good at getting away with it. Bikas style and attitude showed up Ward in the last couple of rou ds. He certainly didnt look "a great technician" running and stumbling around, trying to hug etc. this is what he would look like if made to fight by the rules.
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Andre doesn't possess a style of fighting that sells tickets...but unfortunately for him...he also does not possess a personality (Floyd) to sell tickets either. And i can tell you from watching his career up close...the guy just doesn't want to promote himself outside of the bay area. He really makes no effort. Maybe he is ok with that. if he isn't...he has to shake things up for himself.
Most guys aren't comfortable playing a "character" like Floyd, Haye, ect do. And most guys can't pull it off without look transparent, even if they wanted to.
The fact is, being in the top 3 best should be enough. The fact that it isn't spells a lot of trouble for boxing. It means that boxing is no longer about sport, it's about spectacle, and boxing IS NOT going to out-spectacle the UFC in the long run. Boxing is not going to compete in the "blood" game with guys getting kicked and elbowed in the head.
I am not disagreeing with you. The "casual" sports fan would rather see two guys pummel each other in a brawl. I am not a fan of it...but that is unfortunately the reality. Of course Andre can't transform himself into a Floyd like personality. But what he CAN do is make a better effort to promote himself nationally/internationally. You can't just sit around Oakland and expect people to come knocking on your door...regardless of how skilled he may be. At the end of the day....maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he is content being a god loving nice guy with a non crowd pleasing style. But if he isn't happy with his current situation...he is the only one that can try to change it.
I don't see myself as just a casual fight fan, i'm pretty dedicated to it, I watch a lot of boxing and I have been a fan of the sport for years
I prefer to watch an exciting barn burner than any other kind of fight
I do enjoy watching the technicians tho, I like watching mayweather fight, I like the way he can avoid the punches and pick his opponent off, I like the fighter who can stay out of trouble and land his own punches but I watch ward and its not about that so much, he has a style where he lands a punch and avoids getting hit back by spoiling
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
You have to sell yourself. As a pro boxer you are selling yourself to the fans. Tyson Fury is doing it now. You have to promote yourself. On top of being a good salesman you have to have a good product.
Yeah but what about people who don't want to or can't play a character? The fact that guys need to be actors as well to get paid is pretty sad.
And again, being a top 2 or 3 athlete would constitute having a "good product" in any other sport.
And people argue that boxing isn't a dying sport. Please
Re: Andre Ward speaks on his lack of fights!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
You have to sell yourself. As a pro boxer you are selling yourself to the fans. Tyson Fury is doing it now. You have to promote yourself. On top of being a good salesman you have to have a good product.
Yeah but what about people who don't want to or can't play a character? The fact that guys need to be actors as well to get paid is pretty sad.
And again, being a top 2 or 3 athlete would constitute having a "good product" in any other sport.
And people argue that boxing isn't a dying sport. Please
not really, in most other sports you don't have to sell yourself to get a game
in football spain are frustrating to watch sometimes, not the most exiting of teams anyway but other teams now have to do something about their own playing style to try and take spain off their peak
boxing is different, in this case ward looks unbeatable at the minute at his own weight, yet froch (for example) can make a lot more money fighting a number of other fighters, he doesn't need ward
I really think ward has very little to offer, the only thing being that he is very good at what he does
and what he does isn't very interesting, I watch him fight and think yeah great, he can land more punches over 12 rounds than the other geezer
