Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
It is because of his resume. There isn't another heavyweight with one even close to his. It's a who's who of heavyweight royalty.
Really? Holyfield fought everyone in his era and then some.
Evander has great quality of opposition, second only to Ali. Difference for me is that Evander wasn't as consistent in winning as long or often as Ali was vs top notch opposition.
Besides Frazier (Who was steamrolled by Big George Foreman and his 2 wins vs Liston the rest of the list can be questioned for quality. A lot of his opponents were past their primes or c level competition that were elevated when they fought Ali.
Big George Foreman should not be forgotten. If Ali was not around Foreman would have been a dominant champion for a long time.
Cassius Clay didn't win that fight. George Foreman lost it.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Paxtom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
It is because of his resume. There isn't another heavyweight with one even close to his. It's a who's who of heavyweight royalty.
Really? Holyfield fought everyone in his era and then some.
Evander has great quality of opposition, second only to Ali. Difference for me is that Evander wasn't as consistent in winning as long or often as Ali was vs top notch opposition.
Besides Frazier (Who was steamrolled by Big George Foreman and his 2 wins vs Liston the rest of the list can be questioned for quality. A lot of his opponents were past their primes or c level competition that were elevated when they fought Ali.
Big George Foreman should not be forgotten. If Ali was not around Foreman would have been a dominant champion for a long time.
Cassius Clay didn't win that fight. George Foreman lost it.
No! Muhammad Ali won it.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard Charles
I never put much credence into Cassius Clay being a great fighter. Oh, he's a wonderful boxer,
but he's not a great fighter.
So, he beat Sonny Liston. That's no big deal. I was boxing Sonny's his ears off when they brought
him to Pittsburg for training back in 1955. And I was a very worn down boxer at that time.
He was nothing but 'slow' St' Louis Hash.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Paxtom
Ezzard Charles
I never put much credence into Cassius Clay being a great fighter. Oh, he's a wonderful boxer,
but he's not a great fighter.
So, he beat Sonny Liston. That's no big deal. I was boxing Sonny's his ears off when they brought
him to Pittsburg for training back in 1955. And I was a very worn down boxer at that time.
He was nothing but 'slow' St' Louis Hash.
Ezzard Charles was probably the greatest light heavyweight ever but as a heavyweight Sonny would have tore him apart and Ali would have battered him like a rag doll.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard Charles
1955 ....... Age; 35
Yes, Tom Tannas had taken over managing this St. Louis Bruiser called Charles 'Sonny' Liston.
They shipped him to Pittsburg, because he was in all sorts of trouble in St. Louis. He was supposed
to be this awesome punching machine.
He frightened everyone just by his presence. Nobody wanted to get into the Ring with him. He was
6' 1" and weighed about 205 lbs. He was built like a 'Brick Shit House'. Just massive.
So they asked me to get in the Ring with him, to test him. We were supposed to go 6-Rounds, and
at a good pace.
I was really worn down at that time, but I could still handle myself defensively.
Well, we get into the Ring and start sparring. For the first 2-Rounds, he came charging at me like a
big Freight Train. Just clubbing away with power punches.
But he was slow as 'Shit'. I could see his punches coming at me from a Mile-a-Way. I would just
duck and side-step him, and then counter back with a short left-hook to his 'chops'.
By the 3rd Round, he was frustrated as 'All Hell'. He couldn't hit me at all.
He was now throwing slow clubbing punches. They were heavy, but they had no snap. By the 4th
Round he was 'gassed'. Then I just pot-shot him with lead right-hands to his nose. Not hard
punches, but accurate punches square on his beak.
His nose started to bleed in the 5th Round,.
The he just up and quit half-way thru the Round. The guy just turned around, and walked back to
his corner.
I said out loud ...... "Is that it."
He didn't say a word. He just went to the corner, and told Tom Tannas to 'cut-the-gloves' off.
I was shocked at his quitting like that.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Charles_2.jpg
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Paxtom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
It is because of his resume. There isn't another heavyweight with one even close to his. It's a who's who of heavyweight royalty.
Really? Holyfield fought everyone in his era and then some.
Evander has great quality of opposition, second only to Ali. Difference for me is that Evander wasn't as consistent in winning as long or often as Ali was vs top notch opposition.
Besides Frazier (Who was steamrolled by Big George Foreman and his 2 wins vs Liston the rest of the list can be questioned for quality. A lot of his opponents were past their primes or c level competition that were elevated when they fought Ali.
Big George Foreman should not be forgotten. If Ali was not around Foreman would have been a dominant champion for a long time.
Cassius Clay didn't win that fight. George Foreman lost it.
Poor old Bill his brain is addled LOL Ali is P4P # Numero Uno
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Last time I did a list I had him #6. Although the Heavyweights as a division are pound for pound weak; they do tend to have icon leaders, who should be rated highly. Ali and Louis being the top class of them leaders.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Paxtom
Ezzard Charles
I never put much credence into Cassius Clay being a great fighter. Oh, he's a wonderful boxer,
but he's not a great fighter.
So, he beat Sonny Liston. That's no big deal. I was boxing Sonny's his ears off when they brought
him to Pittsburg for training back in 1955. And I was a very worn down boxer at that time.
He was nothing but 'slow' St' Louis Hash.
Ezzard Charles was probably the greatest light heavyweight ever but as a heavyweight Sonny would have tore him apart and Ali would have battered him like a rag doll.
Agree with everything you wrote in this one. Don't know where the hate for Liston is coming from, but if you look at the mans physical stats he would appear to have been developed in a lab for the sole purpose of fighting. The man was a beast and one of the most intimidating fighters ever, who was unfortunately kept from a title shot for years. He pretty much cleaned the division out to for Patterson's hand and fight him, but was unlucky to have to face the greatest heavyweight ever for his second defense.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard Charles
~ 1968 ~
I would never put Cassius Clay as one of the Top Heavyweights.
He is not on par with >
James J. Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Max Baer
Max Schmeling
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
I would say that he in the group with Jim Corbett and Robert Fitzsimmons.
Oh, he is a notch above - Jack Sharkey and Jersey Joe Walcott. He's a little better than
those guys, but not by much.
I will no doubt put him ahead of >
John L. Sullivan
Marvin Hart
Tommy Burns
Jess Willard
Primo Carnera
James J. Braddock
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johansson
Ernie Terrell
It's too early to tell where he compares with Jimmy Ellis and Joe Frazier, as these Champions
have just gotten started.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
If that quote is true then Ali had a career which got even better. Ezzard would have said it was better than all of them.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
If that quote is true then Ali had a career which got even better. Ezzard would have said it was better than all of them.
Ezzard Charles
"Clay is good. He is very fast, and very difficult to hit. But he will be beaten by a guy
who can keep up the pressure on him {Joe Frazier}."
"I throw out his bouts with Sonny Liston. They weren't real fights. They were more like
staged dance routines."
"I mean, if a guy like Henry Copper can drop him, then that tells me he isn't all that he
is cracked up to be. He was out, and his Ass was lucky it was at the end of the Round."
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard Charles
Nah, I could never see Cassius Clay as a Top 5 Heavyweight. Just because he beat up Sonny Liston,
who was old, and out of shape. Nah, that don't tell me much.
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Paxtom
Ezzard Charles
Nah, I could never see Cassius Clay as a Top 5 Heavyweight. Just because he beat up Sonny Liston,
who was old, and out of shape. Nah, that don't tell me much.
Ali beat Frazier and then took the punches of Foreman.
Ezzard was wrong I asked him yesterday and he said "I was wrong, Ali is the greatest".
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard Charles
"Yea, we all sat around and watched Cassius defend his title against some pudgy Spaniard
from Uruguay, named Alfredo."
"Now, that was Fucking Funny."
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...DcE0zQNMRIwqjg
Re: Where does Ali rank P4P?
Ezzard also told me you were an ass Bill and that he hated you.
