Wow Fens nice of you to volunteer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Printable View
Wow Fens nice of you to volunteer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Yea, cuz that won't be biased at all...
Mighty Mike P4P#1
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepWow Fens nice of you to volunteer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Exactly cnote111 - Mighty Mike P4P#1 :cool:
Bilbo pretty much summed it all up on why MP should remain as #1 p4p.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I completely agree that JMM is the real McCoy he is an awesome fighter no doubt, but you can't put him at number 1 in the p4p rankings off the back of that win in place of the guy who holds a win over him just a couple fights ago.
And everything you said about Diaz applies pretty much to De La Hoya. Oscar had never been beaten up, only stopped once bymiddleweight king B Hop and had just lost a split decision to the p4p's best.
Marquez knocked Diaz out but he wasn't the first to beat him, Nate Campbell dominated Juan Diaz from the first bell and beat him far easier than Marquez did.
Unless you believe Nate is a top 10 p4p fighter your argument holds no logic to me.
Yes Marquez is great, yes he's unquestionably number 2 in the world but he can't leapfrog a man who beat him a year ago and then leapt not one, not two, but three weight classes and dominated and destroyed a living legend in De La Hoya.
Imo you are only detracting from Marquez's brilliant acomplishments by trying to make claims that cannot be backed up.
Marquez lost to Pacquaio in an extremely close fight hence he cannot be p4p number 1 in the world until he either avenges that defeat or Manny loses.
That's just the way boxing works. Manny defeated a fighter in Oscar that no boxing expert in the world expected him to do, whilst Marquez won a fight with Juan Diaz in which he was the slight favourite going in anyway seeing as Diaz had already been completely manhandled by a 36 veteran only two fights before.
If Manny loses to Hatton I'd have no problem putting Marquez as number 1 in the world but until then Manny is still the man.
But JT Rock,
Are saying Hatton is just a mediocre B-level fighter and Pacquiao won't gain anything by beating him?
Not to speak for you JT, so correct me if I'm wrong, but............Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftBilbo pretty much summed it all up on why MP should remain as #1 p4p.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I completely agree that JMM is the real McCoy he is an awesome fighter no doubt, but you can't put him at number 1 in the p4p rankings off the back of that win in place of the guy who holds a win over him just a couple fights ago.
And everything you said about Diaz applies pretty much to De La Hoya. Oscar had never been beaten up, only stopped once bymiddleweight king B Hop and had just lost a split decision to the p4p's best.
Marquez knocked Diaz out but he wasn't the first to beat him, Nate Campbell dominated Juan Diaz from the first bell and beat him far easier than Marquez did.
Unless you believe Nate is a top 10 p4p fighter your argument holds no logic to me.
Yes Marquez is great, yes he's unquestionably number 2 in the world but he can't leapfrog a man who beat him a year ago and then leapt not one, not two, but three weight classes and dominated and destroyed a living legend in De La Hoya.
Imo you are only detracting from Marquez's brilliant acomplishments by trying to make claims that cannot be backed up.
Marquez lost to Pacquaio in an extremely close fight hence he cannot be p4p number 1 in the world until he either avenges that defeat or Manny loses.
That's just the way boxing works. Manny defeated a fighter in Oscar that no boxing expert in the world expected him to do, whilst Marquez won a fight with Juan Diaz in which he was the slight favourite going in anyway seeing as Diaz had already been completely manhandled by a 36 veteran only two fights before.
If Manny loses to Hatton I'd have no problem putting Marquez as number 1 in the world but until then Manny is still the man.
But JT Rock,
Are saying Hatton is just a mediocre B-level fighter and Pacquiao won't gain anything by beating him?
Jt is saying JMM is #1, and if PAC beats Hatton, PAC becomes #1 again.
Jesus just rewatched Marquez/Diaz absolutely amazing fight
Compubox says
Marquez - total punches 288/732 39% - power punches 190/401 47%
Diaz - total punches 252/781 32% - power punches 161/500 32%
FOTY no doubt
Greg is right.... I think Pac would be #1 again if he beats Hatton, hence the title... As it sits right here today JMM is #1 Boxer in the world. If Pac beats Hatton then Pac deserves to be #1 again.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepNot to speak for you JT, so correct me if I'm wrong, but............Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftBilbo pretty much summed it all up on why MP should remain as #1 p4p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
But JT Rock,
Are saying Hatton is just a mediocre B-level fighter and Pacquiao won't gain anything by beating him?
Jt is saying JMM is #1, and if PAC beats Hatton, PAC becomes #1 again.
I wouldnt be suprised if Mayweather toys with the Idea of Fighting JMM, especially if Hatton beats Pac, since Floyd had already been there and done that with Hatton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockGreg is right.... I think Pac would be #1 again if he beats Hatton, hence the title... As it sits right here today JMM is #1 Boxer in the world. If Pac beats Hatton then Pac deserves to be #1 again.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepNot to speak for you JT, so correct me if I'm wrong, but............Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Jt is saying JMM is #1, and if PAC beats Hatton, PAC becomes #1 again.
I wouldnt be suprised if Mayweather toys with the Idea of Fighting JMM, especially if Hatton beats Pac, since Floyd had already been there and done that with Hatton.
So if we assume by your logic that Pacquiao was number 1 prior to the Juan Diaz fight how can a win over a fighter who was not even in the top 10 p4p and who was dominated by a 36 year old veteran who was considered a journeyman at the time jump Marquez to number 1 now?
Because he came from behind? Because it was a knockout? Because it was exciting?
If he'd have won easily and dominated from the first bell would you just be saying it was clear that Diaz was broken by Campbell and now shot?
Juan Diaz was and is the #1 Ring rated contender in the weight class that JMM now occupies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockGreg is right.... I think Pac would be #1 again if he beats Hatton, hence the title... As it sits right here today JMM is #1 Boxer in the world. If Pac beats Hatton then Pac deserves to be #1 again.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I wouldnt be suprised if Mayweather toys with the Idea of Fighting JMM, especially if Hatton beats Pac, since Floyd had already been there and done that with Hatton.
So if we assume by your logic that Pacquiao was number 1 prior to the Juan Diaz fight how can a win over a fighter who was not even in the top 10 p4p and who was dominated by a 36 year old veteran who was considered a journeyman at the time jump Marquez to number 1 now?
Because he came from behind? Because it was a knockout? Because it was exciting?
If he'd have won easily and dominated from the first bell would you just be saying it was clear that Diaz was broken by Campbell and now shot?
JMM fought the Lineal ring champ Casamayor in the fight before that.
There can be no question he fought the best in the division according to the ring, AKA the best opposition available to him.
I don't dispute that and would unhesitatingly put Marquez as THE man in the lightweight division but how does he leapfrog the man who just beat him three fights ago and who has since won another world title at a different weight class and then jumped 3 weight classes to fight a 6 weight world champ and legend in the next fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepJuan Diaz was and is the #1 Ring rated contender in the weight class that JMM now occupies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
So if we assume by your logic that Pacquiao was number 1 prior to the Juan Diaz fight how can a win over a fighter who was not even in the top 10 p4p and who was dominated by a 36 year old veteran who was considered a journeyman at the time jump Marquez to number 1 now?
Because he came from behind? Because it was a knockout? Because it was exciting?
If he'd have won easily and dominated from the first bell would you just be saying it was clear that Diaz was broken by Campbell and now shot?
JMM fought the Lineal ring champ Casamayor in the fight before that.
There can be no question he fought the best in the division according to the ring, AKA the best opposition available to him.
Yes Marquez did fantastically well and has destroyed the two best fighters at lightweight (well Nate Campbell was the best but he's moved up now) but he can't leapfrog Pacquiao who he lost to off the back of that.
And if were going to get all subjective I think there are as many questionmarks over Casamayor and Juan Diaz as there are over David Diaz and Oscar.
Certainly Oscar had looked much better in recent outings than both Casa (who had looked awful against Santa Cruz and Katsidis) and Juan Diaz, who was totally beaten up by Nate Campbell.
There's simply no way a justification can be made for dropping Manny down a place on the back of three outstanding wins against JMM, David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya each one progressively more dominant than the last.
And if Marquez had got the decision against Manny, I'd be arguing the same for him, that Marquez won the fight and hence was p4p number 1 regardless whether people though Manny won or not.
The p4p title is not like a belt that is won in the ring though would you agree with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't dispute that and would unhesitatingly put Marquez as THE man in the lightweight division but how does he leapfrog the man who just beat him three fights ago and who has since won another world title at a different weight class and then jumped 3 weight classes to fight a 6 weight world champ and legend in the next fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepJuan Diaz was and is the #1 Ring rated contender in the weight class that JMM now occupies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
JMM fought the Lineal ring champ Casamayor in the fight before that.
There can be no question he fought the best in the division according to the ring, AKA the best opposition available to him.
Yes Marquez did fantastically well and has destroyed the two best fighters at lightweight (well Nate Campbell was the best but he's moved up now) but he can't leapfrog Pacquiao who he lost to off the back of that.
And if were going to get all subjective I think there are as many questionmarks over Casamayor and Juan Diaz as there are over David Diaz and Oscar.
Certainly Oscar had looked much better in recent outings than both Casa (who had looked awful against Santa Cruz and Katsidis) and Juan Diaz, who was totally beaten up by Nate Campbell.
There's simply no way a justification can be made for dropping Manny down a place on the back of three outstanding wins against JMM, David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya each one progressively more dominant than the last.
And if Marquez had got the decision against Manny, I'd be arguing the same for him, that Marquez won the fight and hence was p4p number 1 regardless whether people though Manny won or not.
Yes kind of but when I talk of p4p I'm talking specifically about the Ring Magazine and as they work within boxing and are essentially part of boxing they HAVE to abide by actual fight results and not their subjective opinion of whether a fighter should have got the decision or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepThe p4p title is not like a belt that is won in the ring though would you agree with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't dispute that and would unhesitatingly put Marquez as THE man in the lightweight division but how does he leapfrog the man who just beat him three fights ago and who has since won another world title at a different weight class and then jumped 3 weight classes to fight a 6 weight world champ and legend in the next fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Yes Marquez did fantastically well and has destroyed the two best fighters at lightweight (well Nate Campbell was the best but he's moved up now) but he can't leapfrog Pacquiao who he lost to off the back of that.
And if were going to get all subjective I think there are as many questionmarks over Casamayor and Juan Diaz as there are over David Diaz and Oscar.
Certainly Oscar had looked much better in recent outings than both Casa (who had looked awful against Santa Cruz and Katsidis) and Juan Diaz, who was totally beaten up by Nate Campbell.
There's simply no way a justification can be made for dropping Manny down a place on the back of three outstanding wins against JMM, David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya each one progressively more dominant than the last.
And if Marquez had got the decision against Manny, I'd be arguing the same for him, that Marquez won the fight and hence was p4p number 1 regardless whether people though Manny won or not.
If you want to say that in your opinion JM Marquez is p4p number 1 in the world according to your rankings, or Saddo's conduct a poll to find a top 10 and they put him at number 1 then that is all fine and dandy.
But the Ring magazine is the official p4p list and they cannot (and clearly would not) elevate a fighter above another he just lost to becuase in their subjective opinion they preferred his wins.
If the Ring was to do that it would lose all credibility and become just another opinion poll like everybody else's.
So in summation, Marquez number 1 in your poll or the official Saddo p4p rankings, fine, Marquez number 1 in the p4p Ring Rankings, forget it.
So your entire argument is moot since JT claimed it as his p4p list.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYes kind of but when I talk of p4p I'm talking specifically about the Ring Magazine and as they work within boxing and are essentially part of boxing they HAVE to abide by actual fight results and not their subjective opinion of whether a fighter should have got the decision or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepThe p4p title is not like a belt that is won in the ring though would you agree with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
If you want to say that in your opinion JM Marquez is p4p number 1 in the world according to your rankings, or Saddo's conduct a poll to find a top 10 and they put him at number 1 then that is all fine and dandy.
But the Ring magazine is the official p4p list and they cannot (and clearly would not) elevate a fighter above another he just lost to becuase in their subjective opinion they preferred his wins.
If the Ring was to do that it would lose all credibility and become just another opinion poll like everybody else's.
So in summation, Marquez number 1 in your poll or the official Saddo p4p rankings, fine, Marquez number 1 in the p4p Ring Rankings, forget it.
Anywho I'm off to school, see ya later.
If its just his list then fine, he can have whoever he wants as number 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo your entire argument is moot since JT claimed it as his p4p list.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYes kind of but when I talk of p4p I'm talking specifically about the Ring Magazine and as they work within boxing and are essentially part of boxing they HAVE to abide by actual fight results and not their subjective opinion of whether a fighter should have got the decision or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
If you want to say that in your opinion JM Marquez is p4p number 1 in the world according to your rankings, or Saddo's conduct a poll to find a top 10 and they put him at number 1 then that is all fine and dandy.
But the Ring magazine is the official p4p list and they cannot (and clearly would not) elevate a fighter above another he just lost to becuase in their subjective opinion they preferred his wins.
If the Ring was to do that it would lose all credibility and become just another opinion poll like everybody else's.
So in summation, Marquez number 1 in your poll or the official Saddo p4p rankings, fine, Marquez number 1 in the p4p Ring Rankings, forget it.
I also regard Evander Holyfield as the WBA heavyweight world champ.
My opinon doesn't mean much to the WBA though unfortunately.
Again, that doesn't have anything to do with the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf its just his list then fine, he can have whoever he wants as number 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo your entire argument is moot since JT claimed it as his p4p list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I also regard Evander Holyfield as the WBA heavyweight world champ.
My opinon doesn't mean much to the WBA though unfortunately.
I officially re-hate p4p lists.Pure subjectivity,opinion & interpretation.Pick who you think is the better fighter,better resume/accomplishments,skillset & ring generalship...thats your p4p.Marquez is mine.Gets away from focus on divisions and who is best?I'm surprised no one is making a case for Floyd.I mean,I wouldn't but with so much hype undoubtedly coming our way should Pacquiao emerge victorious vs. Hatton,where would he rank with an announced return,taking into account the inactivity?And why would Marquez call him out,knowing hes 'retired' ,does he know something we don't?I'm all over the place,just remembered I dislike the p4p lists :-X.
Yes it does seeing as the Ring techinically 'owns' the p4p rankings at least as far as legitimacy is concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAgain, that doesn't have anything to do with the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf its just his list then fine, he can have whoever he wants as number 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I also regard Evander Holyfield as the WBA heavyweight world champ.
My opinon doesn't mean much to the WBA though unfortunately.
If the Ring recognises Pacquiao as p4p number 1 in the world then Michael Buffer, the HBO crew, the Showtime announcers, all the promoters and everyone within boxing will all refer to him as 'P4P the greatest fighter in the world today'.
Nobody will claim that with Marquez because according to the Ring he's not.
So it's essentially the same, I think Holyfield beat Valuev and is the WBA champ, but the WBA are the guys whose opinion matters and they say Valuev.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
The non Ring rankings are, and that's why they have no credibility, the Ring Rankings are about as fair and accurate as you can realistically get however.
Plus you say you hate them for being pure subjecitivty and then argue for picking your own based on that very same subjectivity?
That's makes no sense?
I don't have an opinion on Manny being a better fighter than Marquez whatsoever, all I know is he holds a win over him and therefore is p4p above him, no subjectivity or personal opinion there.
Its called the Bible of Boxing,ok.But I'm not about to fall at the altar and sing hymes to Oscar & Nat Fleisher.I have the utmost respect for Its history and its endeavorers to better the sport and give the fans a unified front,but Ive always had issues with p4p.Prior to Shane Smashing Margarito to bits,Tony was #6...ahead of Rafa Marquez.Wrap-gate aside...I still like Tony but I honestly and respectfully dont think he should have been that high p4p.It all comes down to skills for me.Damn Bilbo...now ya have me talking p4p :furious2:;D.Good read those last couple of pages guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
The non Ring rankings are, and that's why they have no credibility, the Ring Rankings are about as fair and accurate as you can realistically get however.
Damn...now you went and edited.Its not subjectivity at all Bilbs.Regardless of Pacs narrow win...I do in fact see & believe Marquez to be the better all around skilled fighter...forward and back.It makes perfect sense to me.
Only a fool would consider Pacquiao a former Lightweight champion. David Diaz won a vacant title by beating a non-champion. He's was a 3rd tier, paper champion. The fact that Pac decided to face him instead of Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz or even a Julio Diaz is not something that should be bragged aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't dispute that and would unhesitatingly put Marquez as THE man in the lightweight division but how does he leapfrog the man who just beat him three fights ago and who has since won another world title at a different weight class and then jumped 3 weight classes to fight a 6 weight world champ and legend in the next fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepJuan Diaz was and is the #1 Ring rated contender in the weight class that JMM now occupies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
JMM fought the Lineal ring champ Casamayor in the fight before that.
There can be no question he fought the best in the division according to the ring, AKA the best opposition available to him.
Yes Marquez did fantastically well and has destroyed the two best fighters at lightweight (well Nate Campbell was the best but he's moved up now) but he can't leapfrog Pacquiao who he lost to off the back of that.
And if were going to get all subjective I think there are as many questionmarks over Casamayor and Juan Diaz as there are over David Diaz and Oscar.
Certainly Oscar had looked much better in recent outings than both Casa (who had looked awful against Santa Cruz and Katsidis) and Juan Diaz, who was totally beaten up by Nate Campbell.
There's simply no way a justification can be made for dropping Manny down a place on the back of three outstanding wins against JMM, David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya each one progressively more dominant than the last.
And if Marquez had got the decision against Manny, I'd be arguing the same for him, that Marquez won the fight and hence was p4p number 1 regardless whether people though Manny won or not.
Maybe not but the way he totally whupped him from the opening bell was!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly a fool would consider Pacquiao a former Lightweight champion. David Diaz won a vacant title by beating a non-champion. He's was a 3rd tier, paper champion. The fact that Pac decided to face him instead of Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz or even a Julio Diaz is not something that should be bragged aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't dispute that and would unhesitatingly put Marquez as THE man in the lightweight division but how does he leapfrog the man who just beat him three fights ago and who has since won another world title at a different weight class and then jumped 3 weight classes to fight a 6 weight world champ and legend in the next fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Yes Marquez did fantastically well and has destroyed the two best fighters at lightweight (well Nate Campbell was the best but he's moved up now) but he can't leapfrog Pacquiao who he lost to off the back of that.
And if were going to get all subjective I think there are as many questionmarks over Casamayor and Juan Diaz as there are over David Diaz and Oscar.
Certainly Oscar had looked much better in recent outings than both Casa (who had looked awful against Santa Cruz and Katsidis) and Juan Diaz, who was totally beaten up by Nate Campbell.
There's simply no way a justification can be made for dropping Manny down a place on the back of three outstanding wins against JMM, David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya each one progressively more dominant than the last.
And if Marquez had got the decision against Manny, I'd be arguing the same for him, that Marquez won the fight and hence was p4p number 1 regardless whether people though Manny won or not.
He whupped a D level fighter. There's only so much credit you can give himQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuMaybe not but the way he totally whupped him from the opening bell was!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly a fool would consider Pacquiao a former Lightweight champion. David Diaz won a vacant title by beating a non-champion. He's was a 3rd tier, paper champion. The fact that Pac decided to face him instead of Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz or even a Julio Diaz is not something that should be bragged aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
David Diaz a D level fighter who whupped Armando Santa Cruz an E level boxer who in turn whupped Casamayor a F level boxer... Is this the logic of your statement above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe whupped a D level fighter. There's only so much credit you can give himQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuMaybe not but the way he totally whupped him from the opening bell was!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
.
Something tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Diaz fight ;D. The only thing Diaz was missing in with Pacquiao was a big bow tied around his head ....and a realistic chance of emerging victoriousQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDavid Diaz a D level fighter who whupped Armando Santa Cruz an E level boxer who in turn whupped Casamayor a F level boxer... Is this the logic of your statement above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe whupped a D level fighter. There's only so much credit you can give himQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
.
You are bringing in layers of complication for no reason here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYes it does seeing as the Ring techinically 'owns' the p4p rankings at least as far as legitimacy is concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAgain, that doesn't have anything to do with the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
If the Ring recognises Pacquiao as p4p number 1 in the world then Michael Buffer, the HBO crew, the Showtime announcers, all the promoters and everyone within boxing will all refer to him as 'P4P the greatest fighter in the world today'.
Nobody will claim that with Marquez because according to the Ring he's not.
So it's essentially the same, I think Holyfield beat Valuev and is the WBA champ, but the WBA are the guys whose opinion matters and they say Valuev.........
JT made a thread stating "JMM is p4p #1" and since JT is not a spokesperson for The Ring we can safely assume this means his own list.
And since we can safely assume it is his own list, in your words "he can have whoever he wants at number 1".
I've seen that fight... Cruz was KO'ed, stopped by DDiaz in the 10th... There's no controversy there... DDiaz was the clear winner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsSomething tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Diaz fight ;D. The only thing Diaz was missing in with Pacquiao was a big bow tied around his head ....and a realistic chance of emerging victoriousQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDavid Diaz a D level fighter who whupped Armando Santa Cruz an E level boxer who in turn whupped Casamayor a F level boxer... Is this the logic of your statement above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
.
Something tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Casa fight. But if you've seen it, who do you think won that fight? ;D
.
Diaz did catch Santa Cruz, but I didn't have him winning one round up until that point. Watching Diaz in that fight it was clear he may have heart, but not the skill to go with it. Santa Cruz is not an E level fighter, he just got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI've seen that fight... Cruz was KO'ed, stopped by DDiaz in the 10th... There's no controversy there... DDiaz was the clear winner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsSomething tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Diaz fight ;D. The only thing Diaz was missing in with Pacquiao was a big bow tied around his head ....and a realistic chance of emerging victoriousQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Something tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Casa fight. But if you've seen it, who do you think won that fight? ;D
.
Both Pacquiao & Marquez are great fighters!
Although I thought JMM won the rematch (as well as the 1st) both were extremely close fights that could have gone either way, I have to accept the official verdicts & for that fact alone Pacquiao is still the #1 P4P imo!
Hopefully Pacquiao will get past Hatton & the path will be clear for a rubber match with Marquez... as this is the only real way that the superior fighter can be established!
But given the great/ close fights these two put on when they're in the ring together it may take more than 3 fights to prove who is better!
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepDiaz did catch Santa Cruz, but I didn't have him winning one round up until that point. Watching Diaz in that fight it was clear he may have heart, but not the skill to go with it. Santa Cruz is not an E level fighter, he just got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI've seen that fight... Cruz was KO'ed, stopped by DDiaz in the 10th... There's no controversy there... DDiaz was the clear winner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Something tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Casa fight. But if you've seen it, who do you think won that fight? ;D
.
Labeling DDiaz a D level makes Cruz an E and Casa a F level fighter...
DDiaz >> Cruz >> Casa ... ok?
.
No not ok. Medgoen 3k Battery is a D level fighter, does that make PAC an E level fighter? Because you can't have one argument without the other here, just following your logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepDiaz did catch Santa Cruz, but I didn't have him winning one round up until that point. Watching Diaz in that fight it was clear he may have heart, but not the skill to go with it. Santa Cruz is not an E level fighter, he just got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Labeling DDiaz a D level makes Cruz an E and Casa a F level fighter...
DDiaz >> Cruz >> Casa ... ok?
.
Ever watch a dog chase his tail?Even on the other side of it,Casamayor is leaps & bounds ahead of Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI've seen that fight... Cruz was KO'ed, stopped by DDiaz in the 10th... There's no controversy there... DDiaz was the clear winner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsSomething tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Diaz fight ;D. The only thing Diaz was missing in with Pacquiao was a big bow tied around his head ....and a realistic chance of emerging victoriousQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Something tells me you have never seen that Cruz-Casa fight. But if you've seen it, who do you think won that fight? ;D
.
ran across this one and having the same effect :cwm13:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEJy-xtHfHY
Bilbo has done good work here.
Saddoboxer, :vd:
first time for that one
IMO Pac is still p4p#1 on my list
Since those fights were made a couple of years ago, I'd say you difinitely have a valid point!Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepDiaz did catch Santa Cruz, but I didn't have him winning one round up until that point. Watching Diaz in that fight it was clear he may have heart, but not the skill to go with it. Santa Cruz is not an E level fighter, he just got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Labeling DDiaz a D level makes Cruz an E and Casa a F level fighter...
DDiaz >> Cruz >> Casa ... ok?
.
true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pravus