Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
plus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.
Thats quite an oxymoron Rains.. The whole premise of this conversation was to draw an illustration of how Floyd is all of a sudden fighting nothing but smaller fighters. So what your implying is Floyd is doing nothing wrong as long as he keeps fighting smaller guys coming up in weight like Hopkins :headscratch:
Again its foolish to try and compare a severly lacking Middleweight division that BHop ruled than the golden Era of the 140's today.
Point being you cant rake on Floyd for fighting 2 guys back to back that were not Welters and than laud Hop for doing it. Sorry dosent add up, any way you spin it, undeniably Hops biggest wins were against guys that were naturally smaller than him.
I am not tainting Hop's career he deserves all of his due and accolades, I'm just making a comparison on how its a blatant double standard
so your going with the excuse that the welter is at a golden era so that gives floyd the reason not to try clear up the division? What I was saying is it wouldnt be a bad thing if floyd had cleared up 147, like what bhop did with the middleweight division. Fighting smaller fighters who come to him at 147 after clearing up his division or atleast have 1 or 2 fights in the direction of clearing it up would be all good. Not how his doing it now, showing no effort to clear up what you say is a golden era of the welters but declaring himself atg by picking on smaller fighters.
Would be interesting to see who floyd fights next.
Lesser fighter but bigger guys then JMM did better then JMM against floyd, but weight had nothing to do with the results still right?
I went on record as saying if 1-2 fights from now if Floyd is fighting Michael Katsidis and Humberto Soto, than yea he is an idiot and will lose my respect.Given the circumstances of his 2 megafights against DLH and Hatton, coupled with a comeback fight against JMM, give the guy a break already. Its clearly obvious that he is going to fight Mosely and if victorious then the winner of Pac vs Cotto. What more could you ask for?
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.
seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys:rolleyes:
So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore
Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.
etc.
I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other
Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it
You clearly ignored my post.
And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.
Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.
Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.
I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.
It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.
seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys:rolleyes:
So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore
Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.
etc.
I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other
Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it
You clearly ignored my post.
And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.
Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.
Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.
I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.
It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.
I dont believe I was directing anything toward you, as far as Calzaghe goes Hop could have gone to Lightheavy 7-8 years ago under his own admission
I hear what your saying about who what where and how, but they were still all smaller. Right? My post was directed more toward the guys who now claim Floyd is a bully who only fights smaller guys now.. I was simply making a comparison, not denigrating hops career
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys:rolleyes: So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore
Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.
etc.
I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other
Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it
You clearly ignored my post.
And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.
Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.
Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.
I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.
It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.
I dont believe I was directing anything toward you, as far as Calzaghe goes Hop could have gone to Lightheavy 7-8 years ago under his own admission
I hear what your saying about who what where and how, but they were still all smaller. Right? My post was directed more toward the guys who now claim Floyd is a bully who only fights smaller guys now.. I was simply making a comparison, not denigrating hops career
Hopkins was bigger than Wright, Trinidad, etc just like Wright was bigger than Mosley, like Hagler was bigger than Duran. We can constantly use size to discredit fighters on someone's resume.
I don't agree with people saying Mayweather is a bully because although i didn't want him to fight Marquez because Marquez is my boy, i accept the fact that Mayweather had been out of the ring almost two years and needed to test his skills against a big name but someone who didn't provide alot of risk.
I severely disagree with you saying Mayweather is number 1 again though.
The version he fought of Marquez doesn't do it for me imo.
If he was to beat Mosley or Pacquiao, he would certainly reclaim his throne at the top but until then, he is number 2.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
I'm with you JT!
I see what you were trying to say. It is a double standard because B-Hop is viewed as a phenom because he's so old yet still fighting at such a high level. Floyd on the other hand is looked at as a "brat" and a widely disliked figure so people will look at him with "tunnel vision."
Btw, I think Floyd needs to beat Pac or Pac lose to Cotto for Floyd to get #1 back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT ;D
I don't know wtf I was thinking when I thought Hatton had a shot there. Damn 24/7 and their cinematic techinques. The made me think Roy Jones was going to beat Calzaghe!
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.
seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys:rolleyes: So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore
Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.
etc.
I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other
Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it
Respectfully bud
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...cats/Decaf.jpg
You have me confused with someone who paints with as broad a brush as you are using here my friend.Simply making a point about the two fighters and circumstances of fights I mentioned.And at know time have I thrown Mayweathers entire resume out on the curb as a whole.Yeah,I dismissed the credibility of Hatton sooo much that I actually thought he stood a huge chance :bucktooth:,gave nothing but credit to Mayweather for that big drubbing.Yes,do believe he should have been in the welter sweepstakes and faced Clottey,Margarito,Cotto,Williams,shite even a not much in demand Oscar rematch off s dec.But,he did not...he 'retired'.In case you missed it Ive taken Hopkins to task on some of his less than stellar foes...that Oscar fight.It was a farce,again a strictly name event and Oscar did not belong anywhere neeeeaaaar Middleweight off "W" against Sturm.Put that huge brush away dude & lets keep it straight.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
Ahhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.
We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that. ;D
As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls. :mwink:
I dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from
" The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
Great post!
Pacquiao keeps fighting bigger guys like Oscar, Hatton, and now Cotto.
Fraud is Fraud. He keeps fighting jr. lightweights, lightweights, and jr WW.
How can you be P4P king when you're not even the champ at your own division and REFUSE NOW to take on the WW Champ, Mosley.
Everyone knows boxing is about style. Marquez is tailor made for Fraud, he stands in front of his opponent. He does not know how to attack, his forte is to lay back and wait for the attack.
Pacquiao would attack Fraud and punish him. There won't be any room for Fraud to move, he'll back him up against the ropes and hit his shoulders, arms, and skull. We all saw the power of Pacquiao in the Hatton fight. Marquez is a jr. lightweight, don't confuse him with Pacquiao at 140.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KalihiBoyHawaii
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
Great post!
Pacquiao keeps fighting bigger guys like Oscar, Hatton, and now Cotto.
Fraud is Fraud. He keeps fighting jr. lightweights, lightweights, and jr WW.
How can you be P4P king when you're not even the champ at your own division and REFUSE NOW to take on the WW Champ, Mosley.
Everyone knows boxing is about style. Marquez is tailor made for Fraud, he stands in front of his opponent. He does not know how to attack, his forte is to lay back and wait for the attack.
Pacquiao would attack Fraud and punish him. There won't be any room for Fraud to move, he'll back him up against the ropes and hit his shoulders, arms, and skull. We all saw the power of Pacquiao in the Hatton fight. Marquez is a jr. lightweight, don't confuse him with Pacquiao at 140.
Spoken like a true fanatic...Hard to see any of this considering pac is too small to pull this off against a bigger, better boxer. Floyd will stop manny. Although its a lose/lose for floyd and win/win for manny, but i dont think this will happen after cotto bashes manny in.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I agree it had nothing to do with Mayweather's weight, but it had all to do with Marquez's weight (or size to be more accurate). Floyd could have weighed any weight in the welterweight range and he would have beat Marquez
Money will play the same trick with Pac though! Dictate the weight to his own favour so he has the advantage months before they even step into the ring!
Replace the word Marquez for Pac in the quote above and I can see it will be what we are saying post PBFvPac...
PBF has form for engineering fights to suit him! He is a fantastic specimen of a boxer, but he shouldn't be allowed to ride rough-shod over the weight limits as he has done previously!
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
[quote=JT Rock;789135]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
I think Nard had a great career and I appreciate all he has done, but I am barking up his tree to illustrate how Floyd is getting ripped on for fighting Hatton and JMM and then all of a sudden given the circumstances involved he is labeled as a big mean school yard bully who only picks on smaller fighters?
Yet Hopkins did it at just about every big fight in his career. Just dosent add up and thats all I was pointing out.
There are some of us who think that Hopkins was a 'bully' too you know!
2 wrongs don't make a right!
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Yep, I still think Pac is #1.... It's easily arguable that he could beat anyone down from his current weight of 140... And is now going for a fighter who is very formidable at 147... yes it's a catch weight forget that.. The principle Pac is ruling his weight division down, and is chasing the biggest fights possible upwards...
Floyd came back to take on someone who's previous win was at 135.. Not 140, not 147, and not even chasing a fighter from 154, EVEN at a catch weight...
Regardless of how he showed his skills again, how the f'ck can someone who's been out of boxing for 3 years, come back and fight someone who's naturally 12 pounds less and go straight to number 1 P4P... Espeically when P4P Pac is going for much much much more challenging fights for his weight, and winning them so far...
Usually agree with JT but sorry, Floyd gotta take on the highest ranked opponent at 147 AT LEASTTTTTT to be considered for P4P #1 again...
He's got skills and arguably the best boxer on the planet right now, probably not arguably in many people's eyes, but his opposition needs to reflect that IMO considering his biggest challenger for P4P, Pac, is doing that with success..
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
It's like how someone said, How can Vasquez still be in the top 10 P4P when he's been so inactive...
Do P4P rankings go by who you WOULD beat because of your superior skills, or who you ARE beating because of your superior skills...
For me it is the latter in most cases... And Pac has earnt that more than Floyd...
(((The other perspective of if Floyd and Pac met around 145 and you predict Floyd would win so he should naturally be P4P right way... I think that's too thin of a reason for Floyd to be straight up p4p right now with only the marquez fight under his belt since returning...)))
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Well Diz, JT is the same guy who said Joe Calzagne should be p4p #1 :vd: after floyd retired. Disregarding Pac who was at the time #2 the only man behind floyd.
Re: Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Well Diz, JT is the same guy who said Joe Calzagne should be p4p #1 :vd: after floyd retired. Disregarding Pac who was at the time #2 the only man behind floyd.
at the time Joe C held the ring titles at 168 and 175 at the same time. that was iimpressive to me.
