Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

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11-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Kev

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

the more I think about this I believe Haye can win a UD over there. I know how difficult it can be to get a decision over there but if he keeps his head and sticks to his gameplan he can give them no choice.

Recklessness and not being in 12 round condition is the only way he can lose this.

However despite how clumsy, and lacking in natural ability, Valuev is let's be honest if Haye can knock him out it will be sensational - and get people talking about the heavies again.

I agree and think Haye will win this and history tells us that Valuev finds the smaller faster fighters difficult ;)

Haye could even force a stoppage here :cool:

If you can find a way around his freakish size then for me Valuev really is two bob. Fact

History tells us that Valuev finds any fighter ranked in the top 50 difficult ;)
11-03-2009, 09:33 AM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Haye probably pulls this one off, but I think there will be some scary moments for him....like when Valuev first hits him in the back of the head and that WILL happen.
11-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Kev

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Valuev has beaten nobody of note. His best win is against John Ruiz, and that took him two tries and even the Germans thought Ruiz beat him first time around.

He's beaten only complete jobbers. His best win was against a woeful Segei lyakhovich who fought a dreadful dreadful fight that night.

Chagaev beat him easily and he should have lost to Evander Holyfield. I mean come on, would ANYBODY in the top 20 lose to Evander Holyfield now?

Valuev is worse than Primo Carnero, he's only better than Tye Fields because he has a chin.

He's a complete joke of a world champion and Haye, even at 100 lbs and 7 inches smaller should be able to smash him.

As Valuev is so much bigger I won't demand Haye blows him out in a few rounds, but if he doesn't win virtually round and win them with ease I don't see how he can be considered anything like a threat to the Klitschko's.

Wlad and Vitali would not lose a round to Valuev.
11-03-2009, 10:38 AM
ElTerribleMorales

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Valuev has beaten nobody of note. His best win is against John Ruiz, and that took him two tries and even the Germans thought Ruiz beat him first time around.

He's beaten only complete jobbers. His best win was against a woeful Segei lyakhovich who fought a dreadful dreadful fight that night.

Chagaev beat him easily and he should have lost to Evander Holyfield. I mean come on, would ANYBODY in the top 20 lose to Evander Holyfield now?

Valuev is worse than Primo Carnero, he's only better than Tye Fields because he has a chin.

He's a complete joke of a world champion and Haye, even at 100 lbs and 7 inches smaller should be able to smash him.

As Valuev is so much bigger I won't demand Haye blows him out in a few rounds, but if he doesn't win virtually round and win them with ease I don't see how he can be considered anything like a threat to the Klitschko's.

Wlad and Vitali would not lose a round to Valuev.

ummmm you really need to make up your mind, is the Ruiz win or the Lyakhovich his biggest win? lol
11-03-2009, 10:40 AM
TigerFan

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

I hope Haye wins, so we don't have to sit through Valuev-Ruiz III.

I wouldn't be surprised if Valuev stopped a tired Haye late in the fight but I reckon he'll avoid punching himself out and win on points.
11-03-2009, 10:43 AM
rjj tszyu

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Valuev has beaten nobody of note. His best win is against John Ruiz, and that took him two tries and even the Germans thought Ruiz beat him first time around.

He's beaten only complete jobbers. His best win was against a woeful Segei lyakhovich who fought a dreadful dreadful fight that night.

Chagaev beat him easily and he should have lost to Evander Holyfield. I mean come on, would ANYBODY in the top 20 lose to Evander Holyfield now?

Valuev is worse than Primo Carnero, he's only better than Tye Fields because he has a chin.

He's a complete joke of a world champion and Haye, even at 100 lbs and 7 inches smaller should be able to smash him.

As Valuev is so much bigger I won't demand Haye blows him out in a few rounds, but if he doesn't win virtually round and win them with ease I don't see how he can be considered anything like a threat to the Klitschko's.

Wlad and Vitali would not lose a round to Valuev.

No i agree, Haye needs to make easy work to prove he has got what it takes. By this I don't mean KO Valuev in the first 20 seconds but I do mean never really look in any trouble with him. I think he will look good though and I see a mid to late stoppage.
11-03-2009, 11:37 AM
Fenster

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Not really.

Even if Haye loses (without being done in 1 round or something humiliating) would you completely right him off against the likes of -

Adamek
Arreola
Povetkin

Haye vs these types of smaller guys would still be exciting unpredictable fights, no?

Hardly anyone gives him a chance against the Klits anyway. He'd have to KO Valuev in pretty spectacular fashion to make people think he is a serious threat to those two.
11-03-2009, 01:09 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

It's in Germany. Haye needs a knockout just to get a draw over there. FACT.

Hey KL, you read that book yet in your avatar? I read about it in the paper last week and was thinking about getting it for my old man for Xmas.

After I've read it first of course... ;D

I won't get to read it for a while probably. When I do I'll let you know. :)
11-03-2009, 01:25 PM
killersheep

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

the more I think about this I believe Haye can win a UD over there. I know how difficult it can be to get a decision over there but if he keeps his head and sticks to his gameplan he can give them no choice.

Recklessness and not being in 12 round condition is the only way he can lose this.

However despite how clumsy, and lacking in natural ability, Valuev is let's be honest if Haye can knock him out it will be sensational - and get people talking about the heavies again.

I agree and think Haye will win this and history tells us that Valuev finds the smaller faster fighters difficult ;)

Haye could even force a stoppage here :cool:

If you can find a way around his freakish size then for me Valuev really is two bob. Fact

History tells us that Valuev finds any fighter ranked in the top 50 difficult ;)

History tells us everyone is smaller and faster than Valuev.
11-03-2009, 06:42 PM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Not really.

Even if Haye loses (without being done in 1 round or something humiliating) would you completely right him off against the likes of -

Adamek
Arreola
Povetkin

Haye vs these types of smaller guys would still be exciting unpredictable fights, no?.

#1 I don't rate Adamek as a true heavyweight just yet...who's to say if Golota even trained for that fight. Let Adamek handle someone a little fresher and we'll see how he does.
#2 I would write Haye off vs Povetkin simply because although Alex seems pretty chinny to me, he is still a very solid boxer.
#3 We'll have to see how Arreola reacts to losing before we pass judgement on that fight.

I think Haye has talent, he's got decent handspeed (though he does loop his punches too much), he has good pop so far, and he is always in shape...but I think his style is horrible, his defense and chin are suspect, and he hasn't shown me he can do much boxing. David Haye WILL NOT win moving backwards vs any of the big boys...if you move backwards vs them you're moving into the red zone, you have to stay close and negate the height and reach advantage.

I think David Haye is far more concerned with how he looks winning as opposed to how he's going to win, and because of that I think he's in for a rough night.
11-03-2009, 08:05 PM
Mar

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

..didn't vote. Couldn't find the who cares button.
11-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle

Haye probably pulls this one off, but I think there will be some scary moments for him....like when Valuev first hits him in the back of the head and that WILL happen.

So basically what you're saying is that you think David Haye is a world-class heavyweight boxer.
11-03-2009, 10:55 PM
ElTerribleMorales

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle

Haye probably pulls this one off, but I think there will be some scary moments for him....like when Valuev first hits him in the back of the head and that WILL happen.

So basically what you're saying is that you think David Haye is a world-class heavyweight boxer.

pretty sure he's not, he's probably just saying it given how much of a shitty fighter Valuev is
11-04-2009, 06:35 AM
HattonTheHammer

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle

Haye probably pulls this one off, but I think there will be some scary moments for him....like when Valuev first hits him in the back of the head and that WILL happen.

So basically what you're saying is that you think David Haye is a world-class heavyweight boxer.

pretty sure he's not, he's probably just saying it given how much of a shitty fighter Valuev is

The fact is nobody will truly ever find out until the guy actually takes the sport seriously and gets in 2/3fights a year regularly rather than sunning it out in cyprus for 10months then coming back to the UK and telling us all how he is going to knock out someone he clearly has no intention of ever fighting.

Hayes got the talent, but he sure as hell aint got the hunger or desire it becomes to be a good/great champion!
11-04-2009, 06:41 AM
Kev

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Not really.

Even if Haye loses (without being done in 1 round or something humiliating) would you completely right him off against the likes of -

Adamek
Arreola
Povetkin

Haye vs these types of smaller guys would still be exciting unpredictable fights, no?

Hardly anyone gives him a chance against the Klits anyway. He'd have to KO Valuev in pretty spectacular fashion to make people think he is a serious threat to those two.

No I wouldn't be opposed to seeing those fights, but he would be effectively written off as a world title challenger.

I mean look at Arreola, Sam Peter, Tony Thompson etc. Who cares two shits about them now? They just don't have it, they have been exposed. The gap between the Klitschko's and everyone else is just too vast.

Unless Haye dominates Valuev he will just go straight into the list with Peter, Arreola etc and a fight with the Klits would have zero interest to me.

Does anyone get excited about a Klitschko fight? They are so far ahead of the opposition we know exactly what will happen, just a slow, steady, cautious beatdown of their opponent.......

If Haye wants to make it look like he can change all that he can't afford to lose much more than a round to Valuev imo, who is possibly the worst world champ in any weight class.
11-04-2009, 06:48 AM
HattonTheHammer

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Am I alone in thinking that if Haye doesn't make easy work of Valuev he's pretty much exposed?

Not really.

Even if Haye loses (without being done in 1 round or something humiliating) would you completely right him off against the likes of -

Adamek
Arreola
Povetkin

Haye vs these types of smaller guys would still be exciting unpredictable fights, no?

Hardly anyone gives him a chance against the Klits anyway. He'd have to KO Valuev in pretty spectacular fashion to make people think he is a serious threat to those two.

No I wouldn't be opposed to seeing those fights, but he would be effectively written off as a world title challenger.

I mean look at Arreola, Sam Peter, Tony Thompson etc. Who cares two shits about them now? They just don't have it, they have been exposed. The gap between the Klitschko's and everyone else is just too vast.

Unless Haye dominates Valuev he will just go straight into the list with Peter, Arreola etc and a fight with the Klits would have zero interest to me.

Does anyone get excited about a Klitschko fight? They are so far ahead of the opposition we know exactly what will happen, just a slow, steady, cautious beatdown of their opponent.......

If Haye wants to make it look like he can change all that he can't afford to lose much more than a round to Valuev imo, who is possibly the worst world champ in any weight class.

The lack of interest with the klitschkos is due to several factors not just the fact they are miles ahead of the pack.

They arent exactly great on the eye ala:tyson, dont have a list of talented fighters to see off ala:lewis and refuse to fight eachother despite the clear fact they are indeed the best 2 fighters in boxings premiere division.
11-04-2009, 07:09 AM
Youngblood

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

I refuse to vote. Because I don't/won't believe the fight is going to actually happen until after the final bell rings.

I've seen how these David Haye fight hype things work lately. Usually goes something like this...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/bawkbawk.gif
11-04-2009, 07:50 AM
Rick O'Shea

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Can Haye KO him?

If Haye can't beat him from pillar to post for twelve rounds he'll probably get robbed on the cards. Haye has done 7 rounds in two years. If he can't KO him will he get the trip? :-\

I'd love to see Haye cause a minor earthquake by dumping that big lump through the canvas - which will obviously be one of the greatest sights in the history of boxing.

What happens?

History does tend to repeat itself, and with all due respect to the giant Trogladite, I think it's due to happen again..
Much like Baer and Dempsey before him, I can see Haye chopping him down brutally, while Valuev staggers around like Taylos, the enormous Trojan warrior in Jason & the Argonaughts..

I wouldn't regard Haye's suspect chin as an issue in this fight, as I have never seen yet, one shred of evidence to suggest that Valuev is even remotely, a dangerous puncher..

I'll be very surprised, if this isn't, at long long last, 'The end of the Beast'
11-04-2009, 09:11 AM
ross

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

I refuse to vote. Because I don't/won't believe the fight is going to actually happen until after the final bell rings.

I've seen how these David Haye fight hype things work lately. Usually goes something like this...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/bawkbawk.gif

I second that;D

I dont believe the fight will happen till any bell rings, I think Haye is lucky to here the last to be honest;D
11-04-2009, 09:15 AM
HattonTheHammer

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

I refuse to vote. Because I don't/won't believe the fight is going to actually happen until after the final bell rings.

I've seen how these David Haye fight hype things work lately. Usually goes something like this...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/bawkbawk.gif

lol

for a moment there i thought i was watching froch-dirrell all over again;D
11-04-2009, 09:27 AM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So basically what you're saying is that you think David Haye is a world-class heavyweight boxer.

No, I just don't think Valuev is all that great, he certainly has avoided power punchers and if Haye's power carries up at all he SHOULD win, but his style sucks so bad he could lose vs even limited opposition.
11-04-2009, 09:32 AM
Jimanuel Boogustus

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

70 PERCENT VOTE FOR HAYE?! Youv'e all lost your bloody minds! :o

I reckon Haye comes out full pelt in rounds 1 through to 3, then in round 4, blows a Sphincter Valve :rolleyes:
11-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Fatsandman

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Holyfield beat Valuev (mainly because Nikolay was in awe of him) but still lost the fight. Evander is a God in Germany but they still robbed him. One thing for sure, Valuev isn't remotely in awe of David..

Now with that in mind how fairly do you think they will treat Haye (a man reviled in Germany for the comments he's made against the Klitschko brothers)?.

I have a feeling David will be on the losing end of a controversial decision caused maybe by his big old mouth...
11-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So basically what you're saying is that you think David Haye is a world-class heavyweight boxer.

No, I just don't think Valuev is all that great, he certainly has avoided power punchers and if Haye's power carries up at all he SHOULD win, but his style sucks so bad he could lose vs even limited opposition.

You've been telling us for months now that Haye isn't worth a shot at the heavyweight title and should work his way through the heavyweight rankings but now you're claiming htat no, that's actually not the case and Haye can win a world heavyweight title in his third heavyweight fight. How is is possible to have these two different opinions at the same time, or have you just completely changed your mind about David Haye?
11-04-2009, 02:24 PM
Mar

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

I refuse to vote. Because I don't/won't believe the fight is going to actually happen until after the final bell rings.

I've seen how these David Haye fight hype things work lately. Usually goes something like this...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/bawkbawk.gif

Ha ha...i'll quit being a baby and pick. Of course haye will win that big dooofus valuev really didn't even beat holyfield. Haye will knock his head off. But like i originally said....so what ?
11-04-2009, 06:34 PM
Wayne

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OumaFan

Valuev late TKO. Just have a bad feeling about it. Of course if Holyfield can do it Haye should be able to.

Even an old Holyfield doesn't run out of steam. Haye does. I want him to win, but I just see him gassing out around round 7 and Valuev pummeling him into submission. I think Haye is the type to want to croud please and that is the exact style that will play perfectly into Valuev's hands. Haye will make his knees buckle a couple times and that's it.
11-04-2009, 06:35 PM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

You've been telling us for months now that Haye isn't worth a shot at the heavyweight title and should work his way through the heavyweight rankings but now you're claiming htat no, that's actually not the case and Haye can win a world heavyweight title in his third heavyweight fight. How is is possible to have these two different opinions at the same time, or have you just completely changed your mind about David Haye?

#1 The WBA belt is hardly a recognized version heavyweight title anymore
#2 Valuev isn't a good fighter
#3 This is David Haye's 3rd heavyweight fight, he was very good vs Bonin, less than spectacular vs Barrett and hasn't fought in a full year ergo he hasn't EARNED his title shot
#4 When I say TITLE SHOT I mean Haye vs The Klitschko's, they have legitimate belts

I know you're still pissy for me owning you when we talked about how Bill Maher is a hypocrit...but dude, give it a rest :rolleyes:
11-04-2009, 08:39 PM
Kev

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

I refuse to vote. Because I don't/won't believe the fight is going to actually happen until after the final bell rings.

I've seen how these David Haye fight hype things work lately. Usually goes something like this...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/bawkbawk.gif

hahahaha that is the funniest clip I have ever seen, I just can't stop laughing, look at that chicken go!

The way that little scarpers in terror is fucking brilliant! :D
11-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Kev

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

haha look at this poor kid, he's pissed off a whole coup :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGce...eature=related
11-04-2009, 09:35 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

You've been telling us for months now that Haye isn't worth a shot at the heavyweight title and should work his way through the heavyweight rankings but now you're claiming htat no, that's actually not the case and Haye can win a world heavyweight title in his third heavyweight fight. How is is possible to have these two different opinions at the same time, or have you just completely changed your mind about David Haye?

#1 The WBA belt is hardly a recognized version heavyweight title anymore
#2 Valuev isn't a good fighter
#3 This is David Haye's 3rd heavyweight fight, he was very good vs Bonin, less than spectacular vs Barrett and hasn't fought in a full year ergo he hasn't EARNED his title shot
#4 When I say TITLE SHOT I mean Haye vs The Klitschko's, they have legitimate belts

I know you're still pissy for me owning you when we talked about how Bill Maher is a hypocrit...but dude, give it a rest :rolleyes:

Even if we accept that Valuev isn't a legitimate world champion he's got to be ranked in the top few heavyweights. So you're picking Haye to beat a guy you think is one of the top heavyweights. Ergo you must think Haye is a top heavyweight.

And while you're capable of arguing endlessly over something involving subjective opinions like boxing on anything else you'll continue to be relentlessly beaten like a gong every time we argue and never at any time, in any way, at any point in the future, will you ever manage to beat me in an argument over something objective. On the very few occasions that you're right about something in future you'll find that you agree with me.
11-04-2009, 09:39 PM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

....fine Kirkland have it your way, Haye will lose
11-04-2009, 09:52 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Yesterday you though he was going to win.
11-04-2009, 09:58 PM
El Kabong

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Yesterday you though he was going to win.

...and a while ago you thought the Civil War was about slavery and that Bill Maher wasn't a hypocrit. But I don't go around waving that in your face.

I merely chose Haye to win simply because I want him to suffer his career ending defeat vs Wladimir Klitschko and not Nicolay Valuev....I still think Haye is horribly overrated, he's lucky he's just fighting Valuev
11-05-2009, 12:48 AM
iwng100

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerFan

I hope Haye wins, so we don't have to sit through Valuev-Ruiz III.

I wouldn't be surprised if Valuev stopped a tired Haye late in the fight but I reckon he'll avoid punching himself out and win on points.

Yeah man, this is the biggest threat and that’s why I’ll desperately root for Haye in this one.
11-05-2009, 12:22 PM
smashup

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Theres a new Champ in the house
David Haye by KO;)
11-05-2009, 12:22 PM
smashup

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Theres a new Champ in the house
David Haye by KO;)
11-05-2009, 12:22 PM
smashup

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Theres a new Champ in the house
David Haye by KO;)
11-06-2009, 09:09 AM
HattonTheHammer

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashup

Theres a new Champ in the house
David Haye by KO;)

you been watching groundhog day again smash??
11-06-2009, 10:55 AM
Googoogachoob

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Haye had a big question mark over his stamina as a cruiserweight so fighting somebody so much heavier who can lean on him & wear him out makes this fight very difficult for Haye. I have noticed in recent fights that Haye carries his power into the later rounds but I just cant see him winning.

Valuev by late stoppage
11-06-2009, 10:57 AM
HattonTheHammer

Re: Haye-Valuev - Who wins? Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googoogachoob

Haye had a big question mark over his stamina as a cruiserweight so fighting somebody so much heavier who can lean on him & wear him out makes this fight very difficult for Haye. I have noticed in recent fights that Haye carries his power into the later rounds but I just cant see him winning.

Valuev by late stoppage

He`s fought once in the last 18months despite being only 29

one thing haye will not be able to moan about is his stamina for this fight

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