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I had PAC winning the first losing fight two and three . Robbery seems to be word that offends so I believe they misjudged fights Is more apt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Addicted to Boxing
At first I did not favor a PBF vs PAC fight as pbf will destroy him. Confused on if a PAC destruction would be more pleasurable or a Jmm like result happeneng to PAC . I would say option two but that would be impossible as any close fight is going to be gift wrapped for PAC and his charming Geico caveman smile..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Addicted to Boxing
Based on your premise JMM won the 1st and 2nd fight .....
No, based on his premise, the first and second fights also were not "robberies" -- they were close fights. Hardly seems controversial to me.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
and Fenster
miron_lang that is a truly BRILLIANT post.
Impossible to argue against.
How can it possibly be a robbery if everyone is scoring rounds differently?
Great stuff.
miron's was not a truly BRILLIANT post. It is impossibly easy to argue against because the fact that people score rounds differently does nothing but confirm the unbiased objective way in which 5 people struggled to award Pacquiao any more than 5 rounds and 3 people gave him only 4 rounds and one person 3. Witnesses to a crime rarely describe the scene in exactly the same way but will often all describe the same offence and in this case it was a robbery.
For the millionth time - Judges score round by round. They have to hand in a score at the end of each and every round.
If the fans, that all scored it for Marquez, can't agree on precisely what rounds he won then how can it be a robbery? What have the judges done wrong? The rounds were clearly ambiguous!!! Unclear!!! Not obvious or definite!!!
For it to be a robbery everyone needs to agree on the majority of rounds. If you have people giving Pac all sorts of rounds then it's possible some people will have him winning the fight. And that includes the judges. Simple as. Marquez was just unlucky not to get the decision. That's it.
(brilliant post by miron_lang. Fact.)
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight. Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight. Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
;D
OK miles... anyone that agrees with you is right anyone that doesn't is wrong. Just as I said.
I might as well just write blah, blah, blah...;D
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight.
Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
Attachment 2233
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KKisser
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight.
Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
Attachment 2233
It says Pacland
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight. Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
;D
OK miles... anyone that agrees with you is right anyone that doesn't is wrong. Just as I said.
I might as well just write blah, blah, blah...;D
No, I have no issues with accepting when my views might out of synch which at times they have been. I was definitely slanted on JMM against Barrera, but mainly because I think that KD should have been scored. But in this instance I didn't see neck and neck rounds like I saw with Barrera/Marquez where rounds were being determined by a couple of jabs here and there. Marquez certainly through rounds 2 and onwards here was sweeping the fight with his lead right and flashy combinations. It was only Pac's urgency as the rounds were running out that brought him even some way back.
I can argue my point of view all night long, but like I said before we can just subtract my own views and still Marquez is the popular winner of the fight and many amongst them would likely argue the case for a robbery.
A close fight is one where views are evenly split, views are not evenly split on this fight. And a cross reference of 5 random posters is not a valid means of statistical evaluation. You need to input the data of far more scorecards than that and actually breakdown as a percentage how many people are giving which fighter each rounds. However, just saying that 'some of these guys 5 guys disagree on which rounds to give him means it wasn't a robbery' is an extremely inconclusive way to evaluate things and especially so when the OP hadn't even seen the fight.
It was a bizarre OP and really makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
It's kind of funny how people get so worked up. I will say I had a similar experience to the Lewis V Holyfield fight. Watched them both at the same pub and had to leave before the results were announced but confident of who I was sure was the winner. In both instances I was proven wrong. All I can say is that the fight must look very different from where the judges sit. Always has been always will be and seems to be in boxing, MMA, Thai Fighting etc etc.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight. Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
;D
OK miles... anyone that agrees with you is right anyone that doesn't is wrong. Just as I said.
I might as well just write blah, blah, blah...;D
No, I have no issues with accepting when my views might out of synch which at times they have been. I was definitely slanted on JMM against Barrera, but mainly because I think that KD should have been scored. But in this instance I didn't see neck and neck rounds like I saw with Barrera/Marquez where rounds were being determined by a couple of jabs here and there. Marquez certainly through rounds 2 and onwards here was sweeping the fight with his lead right and flashy combinations. It was only Pac's urgency as the rounds were running out that brought him even some way back.
I can argue my point of view all night long, but like I said before we can just subtract my own views and still Marquez is the popular winner of the fight and many amongst them would likely argue the case for a robbery.
A close fight is one where views are evenly split, views are not evenly split on this fight. And a cross reference of 5 random posters is not a valid means of statistical evaluation. You need to input the data of far more scorecards than that and actually breakdown as a percentage how many people are giving which fighter each rounds. However, just saying that 'some of these guys 5 guys disagree on which rounds to give him means it wasn't a robbery' is an extremely inconclusive way to evaluate things and especially so when the OP hadn't even seen the fight.
It was a bizarre OP and really makes no sense whatsoever.
Makes perfect sense to me. Don't know why you're hung-up on the five scorecards he chose. Pick another five different scorecards. I'm pretty certain they'll highlight the exact same point - that MOST rounds could have been scored either way, which quite simply means it was a close fight. Which quite simply means it's not absurd to find Pacquiao the winner.
Simple as. ;)
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Finally got the fight. Ive seen the first 3 rounds and definately PAC won 1 and 3. and good claim at round 2 as well.
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
since no one among the 5 of you gave round 3 to PAC are you willing to debate with me that Pacquiao won round 3? lets make a thread about it.
I am watching ROUND 3 right now for the 2nd time and IMO it is a CLEAR ROUND for Pacquiao.
Surely you are jesting. You had the temerity to post a thread flying in the face of majority opinion,common sense,and public indignation from a position of extreme ignorance having not even watched the fight? !!! like Bilbo who watched it on a mobile and then cherry picked so called boxing experts based on them supporting his very weak argument.You have no right to air any opinion if all you are basing it on is other peoples posts. Really you are clutching at straws. It seems you, Fenster and Bilbo think that agreeing with the majority will undermine some mythical kudos and so to underline your specialness you have to disagree with reality.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon1.gif Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D you are correct JMM clearly won. Nobody gave Pacquiao 9 rounds. NOBODY. ZILCH. ZERO. tHe most given to him by the super 5 was 5 three gave him 4 rounds and one only 2.
So i may be a little rusty on maths but to get an average using your logic 5 posts over 12 rounds equals 60 rounds. the 5 posts gave Pacquiao a total of 20 rounds. thats 20 out of 60 one third. one third of 12 rounds is 4. 4 rounds not 9.There is never in any scenario 9 potential rounds for Pacquiao only 4 at most. The problem is your logic is not simple it requires the universe to be turned on it's head. Being given a win in such a manner is not only bad for boxing it is bad for Manny. It tarnishes his career it puts into question other results so even Pac fanboys should be and are disappointed. I was not rooting for any particular fighter like many i called it as i saw it. So before you start accusing people of bias maybe you should look in the mirror. Robbery.FACT, FACT nailed on, indisputable,Mutha**ckin FACT
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
A judge is someone that is paid to evaluate the fight arbitrarily and to a degree I think people watching the fight do the same. You are supporting a fighter, but you know who won a round or not. A judge shouldn't be clouded by any of that, but it seems almost as though they have attempted to give Manny absolutely everything and did so. That is not how you evaluate a fight. And I am sick of hearing this 'but you have to take it from the champ' nonsense. Again, a fight is scored round by round. You don't give a close round to someone because you think he is champ. You sit back for 30 seconds and run it all back through your mind. Who was the better fighter for those 3 minutes? And then you check your box.
Even though boxing scoring is not an exact science, you expect the quality to shine through in the score cards to some degree but the cards really made little sense. I knew on hearing the first card it would be stolen and I was right. The last card was just a kick at anyone who sees sense. And on seeing the cards later you just think 'WTF?'
A total nonsense.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Greenbeanz, I haven't even said who I thought won. So for the record - I think Marquez won. That makes him 3-0 over Pac in my book.
However, not ONE single fight was a ROBBERY and I scored the 2nd fight widest of all. Fact.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
miles
Well, how come the vast majority of all fans had Marquez winning then. You cannot evaluate a fight not being a robbery on the basis of 5 forum posters alone. I'm sure if you did a statistical analysis of all the cards posted online of this fight that you would have Marquez winning the vast majority of them. Marquez in the eyes of most was the undeniable winner. Anyone giving Manny 8 rounds is INSANE. Anyone giving Manny the majority of rounds is mildly demented and anyone having it a draw is a serious Manny fanboy at best.
It most definitely was a robbery and the polls showing Marquez as victor suggest as much. If the poll is neck and neck you have a case for it being a close fight, but when someone is polling so much more then it has to be a robbery. The tiny minority are suggesting a draw or Pac win.
Nah.. all the best boxing writers/journos had it close either way. No robbery.
The point about the judges cards compared to your own is this - when they score the round the same as you they are correct, right? Yet when their score doesn't match yours they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong?
You and all three judges agreed on the 1st round. Obviously they were doing a good job in the 1st. But then two disagree with you about the 2nd round, they are clearly inept/corrupt/wrong, right? But the other judge must be right because he saw it like you. Now in the 3rd round, the judge that scored the first two like you, has scored it oppposite to you. He must now be inept/corrupt/wrong, right?
And so it goes...
No I gave Pac the rounds he deserved and Marquez the rounds he deserved. It isn't only me on the planet who is seeing a Marquez win, it is most of the people who make their voices heard on the internet. See we can erase my viewpoints entirely and still the vast majority of folks saw a Marquez win. It doesn't need my viewpoint to validate it in any way. But the numbers of people all seemingly seeing the same man win most definitely counts for something.
Pac himself showed that he lost by his immediate reaction, that was a man that knew he had throw it away.
I understand the majority on internet forums have Marquez the winner. That still doesn't mean robbery though.
You gave Pac and Marquez the rounds they "deserved?" Therein lies the problem. All the other people that scored it did the same, no? They gave each man the rounds they "deserved?" Unfortunately there was mass disagreement on the exact rounds they "deserved"
Which means, it's highly probable that Pac won just by the nature of the fight. Which means NO robbery, irrelevant of whom we personally think won.
I have said this before but boxing is not an exact science. It is very rare that 3 judges ever agree on each of the rounds in a fight and that is the disparity between 3 so called 'experts' and suddenly we are to say that because 5 posters here are not perfectly correlated that this somehow signifies that the fight is not a robbery? It is a flawed statistical logic. You are bound to get an even great disparity between 5 posters rather than 3 judges, but unlike those judges each of those posters had something in common. Marquez was the winner! So something seriously went wrong with the judges if not only are they massively disagreeing on who won the rounds, but also ALL fail to have Marquez as the winner. The judges were an abortion which totally fail to correlate in ANY way with popular opinion.
What it suggests is that the posters were true to what they saw and that the judges were completely corrupt. There is no way to see it otherwise. We all saw Marquez winning the fight fairly convincingly and yet one judge gave Pac 8 rounds and no judge gave Marquez the fight. Now show me any poll that shows Marquez receiving less than even a third of the votes which is what the overall cards even refused to give us. I bet even the Pac sites would be more honest that the judges were.
It was a shocking display of officiating and it is difficult to see it any other way. I struggle to see how Marquez wasn't robbed.
;D
OK miles... anyone that agrees with you is right anyone that doesn't is wrong. Just as I said.
I might as well just write blah, blah, blah...;D
No, I have no issues with accepting when my views might out of synch which at times they have been. I was definitely slanted on JMM against Barrera, but mainly because I think that KD should have been scored. But in this instance I didn't see neck and neck rounds like I saw with Barrera/Marquez where rounds were being determined by a couple of jabs here and there. Marquez certainly through rounds 2 and onwards here was sweeping the fight with his lead right and flashy combinations. It was only Pac's urgency as the rounds were running out that brought him even some way back.
I can argue my point of view all night long, but like I said before we can just subtract my own views and still Marquez is the popular winner of the fight and many amongst them would likely argue the case for a robbery.
A close fight is one where views are evenly split, views are not evenly split on this fight. And a cross reference of 5 random posters is not a valid means of statistical evaluation. You need to input the data of far more scorecards than that and actually breakdown as a percentage how many people are giving which fighter each rounds. However, just saying that 'some of these guys 5 guys disagree on which rounds to give him means it wasn't a robbery' is an extremely inconclusive way to evaluate things and especially so when the OP hadn't even seen the fight.
It was a bizarre OP and really makes no sense whatsoever.
Makes perfect sense to me. Don't know why you're hung-up on the five scorecards he chose. Pick another five different scorecards. I'm pretty certain they'll highlight the exact same point - that MOST rounds could have been scored either way, which quite simply means it was a close fight. Which quite simply means it's not absurd to find Pacquiao the winner.
Simple as. ;)
Boxing scoring is not an exact science. It is inevitable that people scoring a fight will see things differently. But for people (judges) to see an entirely different 'result' than the entire boxing public means that something is amiss. The majority of us had the same winner. Now do the stats on a round by round basis for a higher number of random cards and you can be assured that you will begin to see a level of distinct correlation....a certain Marquez as winner and a pattern of rounds which Marquez is also deemed to have been the favoured victor. Maybe not everyone will agree, but the winner of most of the rounds will likely be Marquez even with some level of disparity over which particular rounds they are. I would also predict there to be distinct pattern in the rounds that Pac is deemed to have won as he no doubt won rounds of his own. It is unlikely that it would have made it a particularly close fight though considering how the overwhelming viewpoint is that Marquez won.
Statistically the five have Marquez the overwhelming winner and statistically you would assume the general public to have Marquez the winner too. So I don't how any of these arguments suggest that Marquez wasn't robbed. It has little to support it. The rounds that Marquez won looked convincing and I am sure statistical analysis of how others score it would back me up.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Greenbeanz, I haven't even said who I thought won. So for the record - I think Marquez won. That makes him 3-0 over Pac in my book.
However, not ONE single fight was a ROBBERY and I scored the 2nd fight widest of all. Fact.
Fenster, I would like to see how you scored the fight.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
A judge is someone that is paid to evaluate the fight arbitrarily and to a degree I think people watching the fight do the same. You are supporting a fighter, but you know who won a round or not. A judge shouldn't be clouded by any of that, but it seems almost as though they have attempted to give Manny absolutely everything and did so. That is not how you evaluate a fight. And I am sick of hearing this 'but you have to take it from the champ' nonsense. Again, a fight is scored round by round. You don't give a close round to someone because you think he is champ. You sit back for 30 seconds and run it all back through your mind. Who was the better fighter for those 3 minutes? And then you check your box.
Even though boxing scoring is not an exact science, you expect the quality to shine through in the score cards to some degree but the cards really made little sense. I knew on hearing the first card it would be stolen and I was right. The last card was just a kick at anyone who sees sense. And on seeing the cards later you just think 'WTF?'
A total nonsense.
The exact same can be levelled at you, or anyone that supports any fighter for that matter.
You wanted Marquez to win. You scored a lot of close rounds for Marquez. How can we trust your judgement wasn't influenced by your support for Marquez? Your scorecard is clealry unreliable.
The cards made little sense because of the closeness of the rounds. ;)
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Greenbeanz, I haven't even said who I thought won. So for the record - I think Marquez won. That makes him 3-0 over Pac in my book.
However, not ONE single fight was a ROBBERY and I scored the 2nd fight widest of all. Fact.
Fenster, I would like to see how you scored the fight.
I don't ever write down rd-by-rds (unless I specifically rewatch a fight for something). I just ENJOY the contest.
I thought it could have gone either way with Marquez edging it. Numbers are utterly irrelevant for someone coming from my rational position. Who won means nothing to me. Reverse the decision and I will argue the EXACT same thing. NO robbery.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
A judge is someone that is paid to evaluate the fight arbitrarily and to a degree I think people watching the fight do the same. You are supporting a fighter, but you know who won a round or not. A judge shouldn't be clouded by any of that, but it seems almost as though they have attempted to give Manny absolutely everything and did so. That is not how you evaluate a fight. And I am sick of hearing this 'but you have to take it from the champ' nonsense. Again, a fight is scored round by round. You don't give a close round to someone because you think he is champ. You sit back for 30 seconds and run it all back through your mind. Who was the better fighter for those 3 minutes? And then you check your box.
Even though boxing scoring is not an exact science, you expect the quality to shine through in the score cards to some degree but the cards really made little sense. I knew on hearing the first card it would be stolen and I was right. The last card was just a kick at anyone who sees sense. And on seeing the cards later you just think 'WTF?'
A total nonsense.
The exact same can be levelled at you, or anyone that supports any fighter for that matter.
You wanted Marquez to win. You scored a lot of close rounds for Marquez. How can we trust your judgement wasn't influenced by your support for Marquez? Your scorecard is clealry unreliable.
The cards made little sense because of the closeness of the rounds. ;)
I gave the rounds that I believed were closest to Manny because I felt that I had to be as impartial as best I could. If I was being mean I would have had it 10-2, 8-4 was a display of impartiality on my part.
Some of the rounds were close for sure, but the clear Marquez ones seemed to outweigh them and that seems to be what others were seeing too. I keep on arguing the point that we can just discount my own views and the consensus still exists. My own possibly 'unreliable' card is only one in a great ocean of the buggers.
And in response to your last post Fenster, I watched the fight first time out for the event too. And I loved it and had no doubt that Marquez won. I only scored it properly on watching it again.
I don't see how Manny won. He was fighting at the pace of Marquez and practically gifted him numerous rounds. None of the so called improvements were there and Marquez fought like he knew that.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Less flippantly though, I know when a fighter wins a fight. I will give Khan the Maidana fight which was a close fight in the end, but Khan did do enough AND had a KD. This fight had none of that, nobody was hurt and I was able to just sit back and enjoy it. There was no fighter eating up rounds with activity and hitting gloves. Manny seemed half asleep and that makes it so much easier to give rounds to Marquez who really was so much sharper.
Totally different fights really.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
Actually no. This proves my statement. Miles, you screamed robbery at the fighter you disliked that wins a close decision. Well to be fair, a lot of boxing fans do that also. But come on, to present yourself as some fair and impartial guy.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
Actually no. This proves my statement. Miles, you screamed robbery at the fighter you disliked that wins a close decision. Well to be fair, a lot of boxing fans do that also. But come on, to present yourself as some fair and impartial guy.
No, once again you are being silly.
I have said all along that we can readily erase my own viewpoint if need be and evaluate only the viewpoints of others.
I am not the judge and jury, I am more than happy to allow my scorecard to fall by the wayside. However, it seems that others will only take its place.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
Actually no. This proves my statement. Miles, you screamed robbery at the fighter you disliked that wins a close decision. Well to be fair, a lot of boxing fans do that also. But come on, to present yourself as some fair and impartial guy.
No, once again you are being silly.
I have said all along that we can readily erase my own viewpoint if need be and evaluate only the viewpoints of others.
I am not the judge and jury, I am more than happy to allow my scorecard to fall by the wayside. However, it seems that others will only take its place.
And pray tell, how many were really unbiased? I know someone like Andre really has no vested interest or hate for both fighters and think JMM truly won. I know Youngblood felt JMM also won. That I can respect. But then there are also a lot of people that already didn't like Pac to begin with such as yourself and your fellow Korean countryman like finitodynamita or whatever you spell it. Or people that blasted Pac in the 1st place as a fraud and cherry picker before the fight, all of a sudden are people that are impartial and unbiased when it comes to a close fight between Pac-JMM? Laughable.
BTW, I also have to add there are people that are slanted in both ways, obviously people like PSL and Miron_Lang are going to be biased in favor of Pac but then so is the other side. To really cast the majority of one side as some impartial and fair evaluator is funny. That is all.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
Actually no. This proves my statement. Miles, you screamed robbery at the fighter you disliked that wins a close decision. Well to be fair, a lot of boxing fans do that also. But come on, to present yourself as some fair and impartial guy.
No, once again you are being silly.
I have said all along that we can readily erase my own viewpoint if need be and evaluate only the viewpoints of others.
I am not the judge and jury, I am more than happy to allow my scorecard to fall by the wayside. However, it seems that others will only take its place.
And pray tell, how many were really unbiased? I know someone like Andre really has no vested interest or hate for both fighters and think JMM truly won. I know Youngblood felt JMM also won. That I can respect. But then there are also a lot of people that already didn't like Pac to begin with such as yourself and your fellow Korean countryman like finitodynamita or whatever you spell it. Or people that blasted Pac in the 1st place as a fraud and cherry picker before the fight, all of a sudden are people that are impartial and unbiased when it comes to a close fight between Pac-JMM? Laughable.
BTW, I also have to add there are people that are slanted in both ways, obviously people like PSL and Miron_Lang are going to be biased in favor of Pac but then so is the other side. To really cast the majority of one side as some impartial and fair evaluator is funny. That is all.
So, anyone who has criticized Pac in the past has no right to score the fight? Fair enough, erase my scorecard. But nobody who has scored Marquez winning has done so by NOT WATCHING THE FIGHT TO BEGIN WITH, that is insane. Most of us watched and in its entirety. Not any evaluation on the basic framework of the people who scored it for Marquez.
That is even more outrageous and where this thread started. People can criticise my card, but if YOU take issue with it then call me out on where you take issue. But don't just be a dick and try and provoke without actually giving any verdict of your own.
That is just trolling.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
you chose 5 of us who scored a win for JMM - There's a huge clue there!!
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
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Originally Posted by
armyash
you chose 5 of us who scored a win for JMM - There's a huge clue there!!
It's like The DaVinci Code isn't it?
Exclude all the haters to get the right score and thus get the key to move onto the next level.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
There are sort of 2 different discussions going on...what constitutes a robbery, and whether this fight was one. I think by the standard of the original post, there may never have been a robbery. For just about any decision that anyone ever lost, I could probably find a few people who scored many particular rounds the other way. If a million people gave Marquez a round, and ten people didn't - even 10 unbiased people - does that mean it's not a robbery? Does a robbery have to mean a one-sided fight? What if it's 105-105 on all cards after 11, and 99.999% of viewers and experts think the same guy won the 12th, and he loses the decision? Did he not get robbed, because it was a close fight? Or because that .001% agreed with their cards? It sounds to me like yeah, there's a disagreement about whether JMM was robbed, but there's also a disagreement about what constitute a robbery in the first place.
But if the standard is literally that nobody at all disputes that he clearly won a majority of the rounds, then I submit that nobody has ever been robbed in boxing history.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Miles you are anything but impartial when evaluating fighters you don't like. I remember the Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana fight where you screamed bloody robbery that Khan got the win. And we all know how much you like Khan?:)
The same applies here with Pacquiao.;)
I screamed bloody robbery that Khan had got the win? Only on re watching surely. I think I have deflated your argument.
Actually no. This proves my statement. Miles, you screamed robbery at the fighter you disliked that wins a close decision. Well to be fair, a lot of boxing fans do that also. But come on, to present yourself as some fair and impartial guy.
No, once again you are being silly.
I have said all along that we can readily erase my own viewpoint if need be and evaluate only the viewpoints of others.
I am not the judge and jury, I am more than happy to allow my scorecard to fall by the wayside. However, it seems that others will only take its place.
And pray tell, how many were really unbiased? I know someone like Andre really has no vested interest or hate for both fighters and think JMM truly won. I know Youngblood felt JMM also won. That I can respect. But then there are also a lot of people that already didn't like Pac to begin with such as yourself and your fellow Korean countryman like finitodynamita or whatever you spell it. Or people that blasted Pac in the 1st place as a fraud and cherry picker before the fight, all of a sudden are people that are impartial and unbiased when it comes to a close fight between Pac-JMM? Laughable.
BTW, I also have to add there are people that are slanted in both ways, obviously people like PSL and Miron_Lang are going to be biased in favor of Pac but then so is the other side. To really cast the majority of one side as some impartial and fair evaluator is funny. That is all.
So, anyone who has criticized Pac in the past has no right to score the fight? Fair enough, erase my scorecard. But nobody who has scored Marquez winning has done so by NOT WATCHING THE FIGHT TO BEGIN WITH, that is insane. Most of us watched and in its entirety. Not any evaluation on the basic framework of the people who scored it for Marquez.
That is even more outrageous and where this thread started. People can criticise my card, but if YOU take issue with it then call me out on where you take issue. But don't just be a dick and try and provoke without actually giving any verdict of your own.
That is just trolling.
Trolling nah. I just call it what it is. I'm a dick? Whatever man. To me it's just sports nothing personal. I'm not that emotionally vested in who wins tbh. Nor do I need to call people names like "dick" because they gave different opinions. And yes I had JMM winning by a round.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
There are sort of 2 different discussions going on...what constitutes a robbery, and whether this fight was one. I think by the standard of the original post, there may never have been a robbery. For just about any decision that anyone ever lost, I could probably find a few people who scored many particular rounds the other way. If a million people gave Marquez a round, and ten people didn't - even 10 unbiased people - does that mean it's not a robbery? Does a robbery have to mean a one-sided fight? What if it's 105-105 on all cards after 11, and 99.999% of viewers and experts think the same guy won the 12th, and he loses the decision? Did he not get robbed, because it was a close fight? Or because that .001% agreed with their cards? It sounds to me like yeah, there's a disagreement about whether JMM was robbed, but there's also a disagreement about what constitute a robbery in the first place.
But if the standard is literally that nobody at all disputes that he clearly won a majority of the rounds, then I submit that nobody has ever been robbed in boxing history.
Spot on.
If only the word 'robbery' could be erased from the dictionary, then people could let go of this irrelevant argument and simply debate whether Marquez deserved the victory and whether the judges (particularly Glenn Trowbridge) displayed obvious bias towards Arum's cash cow.
Interesting quote from Nazim Richardson: "when they were starting to read the scores it didn't surprise me, because Mayweather is the only person in there allowed to beat Pacquiao by decision right about now"
It's as clear as day. That's why many people (including Pacquiao fans like myself) are up in arms over the fiasco. It's yet another example of money dictating the sport. And it's a great shame that a legend and a warrior like JMM, who has given so much to the sport, is the one who has been screwed out of his career defining moment.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prosinecki
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
There are sort of 2 different discussions going on...what constitutes a robbery, and whether this fight was one. I think by the standard of the original post, there may never have been a robbery. For just about any decision that anyone ever lost, I could probably find a few people who scored many particular rounds the other way. If a million people gave Marquez a round, and ten people didn't - even 10 unbiased people - does that mean it's not a robbery? Does a robbery have to mean a one-sided fight? What if it's 105-105 on all cards after 11, and 99.999% of viewers and experts think the same guy won the 12th, and he loses the decision? Did he not get robbed, because it was a close fight? Or because that .001% agreed with their cards? It sounds to me like yeah, there's a disagreement about whether JMM was robbed, but there's also a disagreement about what constitute a robbery in the first place.
But if the standard is literally that nobody at all disputes that he clearly won a majority of the rounds, then I submit that nobody has ever been robbed in boxing history.
Spot on.
If only the word 'robbery' could be erased from the dictionary, then people could let go of this irrelevant argument and simply debate whether Marquez deserved the victory and whether the judges (particularly Glenn Trowbridge) displayed obvious bias towards Arum's cash cow.
Interesting quote from Nazim Richardson: "when they were starting to read the scores it didn't surprise me, because Mayweather is the only person in there allowed to beat Pacquiao by decision right about now"
It's as clear as day. That's why many people (including Pacquiao fans like myself) are up in arms over the fiasco. It's yet another example of money dictating the sport. And it's a great shame that a legend and a warrior like JMM, who has given so much to the sport, is the one who has been screwed out of his career defining moment.
People cry "robbery" every single week. Almost EVERY time it's a close fight open to interpretaion. That's what this fight comes under.
Nazim Richardson's conspiracy theory is utterly irrelevant. When was the last time anyone had Pacquiao close on the scorecards? Pacquiao was expected to win, because he didn't do it clear-cut he deserved to lose. It's a sure sign of corruption. That's basically what we have here.
Too many good judges scored the fight close for it to ever be a robbery.
Money has ALWAYS dictated the sport business and always will.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
yes it was a close fight but it was clearly a victory for Marquez. That is possible, for it to be close but still be clear who the winner was. And in my eyes even if it was by 1 round, Marquez still clearly won it. So that makes it a robbery.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
yes it was a close fight but it was clearly a victory for Marquez. That is possible, for it to be close but still be clear who the winner was. And in my eyes even if it was by 1 round, Marquez still clearly won it. So that makes it a robbery.
I don't agree with that. If it's close it means it can go either way.
If someone sees ONE round different there is a different result.
You're basically claiming your scorecard is 100% bombproof correct. Indisputable.
Even if loads of people "only" gave Pacquiao a draw that means he didn't LOSE. So how can it possibly be a robbery? Madness.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I can only assume some of the more longer term residents here are trolling. You cannot argue with popular opinion and the facts are that Marquez was deemed to have won by about 2/3rd of the public. Only a few diehards and a couple of corrupt judges give it to Pac and some argue for a keep the peace draw. Those saying that Manny might have won are a tiny minority.
I had it 8-4 and GAVE two of my 'even' rounds to Pac. Unless you are giving Manny every benefit you can only have him losing by a closer margin. To have Marquez losing 8-4 is sick. To have Marquez down at the half way mark is sick. There was something terribly wrong with the scoring and the fix was in.
How people are defending that is disgusting and shame on anyone that does so.
I was absolutely convinced that MArquez would get steamrolled, didn't want to watch the fight but finally decided to see it as my 2 cousins joined after my godfather's b-day. I understand Fenster argument of the round by round but I disagree with it because everybody at some point is tempted to say "ok, I think Marquez won that one but for the sake of trying to be impartial, I'd give that one to Marquez", which is a part of why I believe the scoring cards on some rounds are a bit different. I've seen the match again and I still can't give less than 8 rounds to Marquez. I could make a compromise with those that say that it was not a robbery but something damn shady, I'd do that for the sake of good faith but inside, I feel like it's an utter robbery.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Haters (you know who you are). You might wanna huddle up next time, so you can avoid shooting yourselves in the foot.
:)
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
People cry "robbery" every single week. Almost EVERY time it's a close fight open to interpretaion. That's what this fight comes under.
Nazim Richardson's conspiracy theory is utterly irrelevant. When was the last time anyone had Pacquiao close on the scorecards? Pacquiao was expected to win, because he didn't do it clear-cut he deserved to lose. It's a sure sign of corruption. That's basically what we have here.
Too many good judges scored the fight close for it to ever be a robbery.
Money has ALWAYS dictated the sport business and always will.
I wouldn't necessarily call this fight close, as I had Marquez winning comfortably, but I'd certainly call it competitive. I just find it amazing how every competitive fight is awarded to the home/money fighter.
I agree with what you're saying, and although I believe (along with the VAST majority) that Marquez won this fight, perhaps it was too close/competitve to call a robbery. Perhaps it would be possible for a judge to score 116-112 in Pacquiao's favour without going into the fight with the predetermined intention of scoring him the winner. But somehow I doubt it. Just like I doubt two judges truly believed Sturm beat Macklin 116-112 back in the summer, coincidentally in Sturm's backyard. I won't bother citing the countless other examples.
And I'm not sure what Pacquiao's recent one-sided fights have to do with this one... I'm sure most of Nazim Richardson, Marvin Hagler, Steve Collins, Bernard Hopkins, Oscar de la Hoya, Andre Dirrell, Anthony Dirrell, Andre Ward, Matthew Macklin, Steve Cunningham, Zab Judah, Terry Norris, Andre Berto, Omar Henry, Chris Arreola, Rashad Holloway, Fernando Vargas, Juan Diaz, Erik Morales, Anthony Mundine and Jean Pascal, along with myself and countless other fans, are able to judge this one fight on its own merits. I expected a competitive fight in Pac's favour. I had money on a Pacquiao UD.
As for your last comment - it is indeed a sad truth. But that doesn't make it any less sickening. There's also a huge difference between money dictating what fights are made, and money dictating the actual winner. This isn't Nazim Richardson's conspiracy theory, at this point it's evident even to Stevie Wonder. Fans of boxing shouldn't just accept it. The day I quit moaning about it will be either the day boxing sorts itself out, or the day I quit watching completely.
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Re: Not a ROBBERY Please look :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
yes it was a close fight but it was clearly a victory for Marquez. That is possible, for it to be close but still be clear who the winner was. And in my eyes even if it was by 1 round, Marquez still clearly won it. So that makes it a robbery.
I don't agree with that. If it's close it means it can go either way.
If someone sees ONE round different there is a different result.
You're basically claiming your scorecard is 100% bombproof correct. Indisputable.
Even if loads of people "only" gave Pacquiao a draw that means he didn't LOSE. So how can it possibly be a robbery? Madness.
If it's close it does not mean it can go either way. Going in to the 12th round it could be 6-5 to Marquez, very very close. Marquez wins the 12th that makes it a clear win for JMM. Especially if the rounds he won he did so more convincingly than when Pac won his rounds.
I fail to see how it could be made a draw.
I'm not claiming my scorecard is bomb proof (close tho :p). I stand by my opinion that it was a close fight but JMM was better overall and his performance, tactics, counter punching and effective shots landed were better than what manny managed to over the 12 rounds.
Of course people will see the fight differently and i will respect the fact that others see the fight different to me but see no way i'll ever agree.
