Wanna make an Ass of yourself and say Klıts can fıght lıke thıs?

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Originally Posted by imp

Wlad deserves respect for what he has achieved in this era but if he had Lennox lewis opponents there would be a huge difference in resume.

Just think what a past prime lennox would have done to prime wlads last opponent.

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Who is to say if Lennox could have KO'd him you can't assume he would just to support your views

An old, fat, washed up Lewis beat Vitali in his prime. Imagine what Lewis at his best would have done to Wlad and Vitali.

I have a feeling Lyle that if Lewis had not fought Vitali, you would have said something along the lines that the Klits would have knocked out Lewis easily. Just a hunch.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

An old, fat, washed up Lewis beat Vitali in his prime. Imagine what Lewis at his best would have done to Wlad and Vitali.

I have a feeling Lyle that if Lewis had not fought Vitali, you would have said something along the lines that the Klits would have knocked out Lewis easily. Just a hunch.

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I thought they would be competitive at the least. Let's be honest neither Vitali nor Lennox were 100% prepared for that fight. Lennox Lewis is an all-time great. In hindsight Wlad wasn't ready for that step up, now he could hold his own but back then Wlad's only hope would be to pour on the offense early and catch Lewis and follow up.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

An old, fat, washed up Lewis beat Vitali in his prime. Imagine what Lewis at his best would have done to Wlad and Vitali.

I have a feeling Lyle that if Lewis had not fought Vitali, you would have said something along the lines that the Klits would have knocked out Lewis easily. Just a hunch.

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I thought they would be competitive at the least. Let's be honest neither Vitali nor Lennox were 100% prepared for that fight. Lennox Lewis is an all-time great. In hindsight Wlad wasn't ready for that step up, now he could hold his own but back then Wlad's only hope would be to pour on the offense early and catch Lewis and follow up.

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At that time Wlad had very little chance, now it would have been a good fight but still feel Lennox would dig deep and bring the victory.

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No matter what anyone says every klit fan ends up in the same place when you mention lennox lewis.
The best, prime klit brother could not dethrone a past it, two loss lennox lewis.

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Dumbass. Try taking a fighters entire career into context rather than one fight on 11 days notice. Wlad is the best klit only a mong would suggest otherwise nowadays. Vitali is a H2H monster and one of only a few HW's to be a 3x champ. Lewis is no good he was brutally kayoed by mcall! Your logic. LOL

It's not m fault u are dumb enough to have fallen for the nostalgic hype that comes with the so-called 'golden era' of heavyweight boxing when the soviet union fighters weren't even allowed to fight for world titles. Get used to them because they are the first of man! GET USED TO THEM!

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none of these types of fighters exist today.

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Which is just as well because i.e Joe Frazier would be jabbed to death and finished within 7 rounds easily by either klitschko in there pomp and u would be on here calling Joe an overrated can!

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The klits RULE this WEAK era and the prime big brother vitali best and greatest fight was his LOSS to weak chin, hugging, canadian/english, fat lennox lewis.

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Roughy translated: 'I am actually quite dumb'. Vitali i think u will find was winning that fight on points and outlanded lewis in nearly single round. The cut stoppage on 11 days notice wasn't a convincing win. The much anticipated rematch happened when exactly? You're a typical biased jobsworth who overrates their own fighters and gets jealous when other countries dominate boxing hahaa. The only two that could hold up today would probabley be lewis and holyfield and even then it's far from certain as to who would reign supreme if they were all 100%.

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That version of lennox would have beat wlad today and you know its the truth.

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I doubt it. He couldn't even keep seljko mavrovic off him for 12 rounds. Wach is much more of a threat than CW Mavrovic and he was utterly schooled. Manny himself said 'wlad at this point is as near invincible as they come'....Try harder.

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Try not to go back to many years to compare fighters to the klit brothers in how well they would do as lennox lewis is all you need to measure their level.

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So we should measure Wlad against a fighter he never fought and Vk against a fighter he fought with 11 days notice and was stopped on cuts whilst ahead on the cards? Quality poster. I assume we should measure Lewis by Mcall and Wlad by Brewster then! LOL. Try measuring your IQ it should be similar to your shoe size.

What drivel,Lennox Lewis would destroy Klit.

I think the T.S is confusing exciting fights with ability! Smokin Bert cooper was in numerous fights like the one in the OP. What does that prove? LOL.

Gatti/Ward anyone! Ward was B level at best.

If u want exciting HW fights then go watch:

-Brewster v Liakovich\Krasniqi

-VK v Sanders\Lewis

-Golota v Sanders/Bowe

-Maskaev v Rahman 1 & 2

-Byrd v Golota/Mcline

-Tua v Ibeaubuchi

Etc Because all of those are just as watchable as Norton v Holmes. K2 do not allow there opponents to do what norton did to holmes. They are too good.

Oops silly me...I just dropped my IBF belt! Careless.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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No matter what anyone says every klit fan ends up in the same place when you mention lennox lewis.
The best, prime klit brother could not dethrone a past it, two loss lennox lewis.

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Dumbass. Try taking a fighters entire career into context rather than one fight on 11 days notice. Wlad is the best klit only a mong would suggest otherwise nowadays. Vitali is a H2H monster and one of only a few HW's to be a 3x champ. Lewis is no good he was brutally kayoed by mcall! Your logic. LOL

It's not m fault u are dumb enough to have fallen for the nostalgic hype that comes with the so-called 'golden era' of heavyweight boxing when the soviet union fighters weren't even allowed to fight for world titles. Get used to them because they are the first of man! GET USED TO THEM!

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none of these types of fighters exist today.

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Which is just as well because i.e Joe Frazier would be jabbed to death and finished within 7 rounds easily by either klitschko in there pomp and u would be on here calling Joe an overrated can!

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The klits RULE this WEAK era and the prime big brother vitali best and greatest fight was his LOSS to weak chin, hugging, canadian/english, fat lennox lewis.

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Roughy translated: 'I am actually quite dumb'. Vitali i think u will find was winning that fight on points and outlanded lewis in nearly single round. The cut stoppage on 11 days notice wasn't a convincing win. The much anticipated rematch happened when exactly? You're a typical biased jobsworth who overrates their own fighters and gets jealous when other countries dominate boxing hahaa. The only two that could hold up today would probabley be lewis and holyfield and even then it's far from certain as to who would reign supreme if they were all 100%.

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That version of lennox would have beat wlad today and you know its the truth.

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I doubt it. He couldn't even keep seljko mavrovic off him for 12 rounds. Wach is much more of a threat than CW Mavrovic and he was utterly schooled. Manny himself said 'wlad at this point is as near invincible as they come'....Try harder.

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Try not to go back to many years to compare fighters to the klit brothers in how well they would do as lennox lewis is all you need to measure their level.

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So we should measure Wlad against a fighter he never fought and Vk against a fighter he fought with 11 days notice and was stopped on cuts whilst ahead on the cards? Quality poster. I assume we should measure Lewis by Mcall and Wlad by Brewster then! LOL. Try measuring your IQ it should be similar to your shoe size.

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Ha ha. Great comedy. Mong?..how old are you?

What you never seem to grasp is the fact that in the 3rd round lennox threw a punch so vicious it opened up vitalis face!

Lennox did that!

No clash of heads!

Lennox fist!

This is a fight and no matter how great you think vitali fought (which he did do very well) his face could not stand up to lewis punches!

If the fight would have continued and vitali would have lost an eye would you still find some stupid excuse to justify all of this!

This is a younger, fitter, prime vitali.
And everything he threw could not floor lennox.

Give lennox his due and stop living in a fantasy world where everyone is from ukraine and your the brothers fluffer.

Vitali is a true warrior and we can all clearly see that lennox was his toughest opponent of all time that unfortunately he fell short by suffering his first and possibly last tko loss.

Ps:- Lennox avenged all his losses so i dont know how this is relevant to this fight??! Grow up!

imp....Lennox Lewis isn't walking through that door, neither is Ali or Frazier or Foreman. This heavyweight division right here right now is OWNED by Wladimir Klitschko and it's his until he decides it's time to retire so how about you come on to the 2010's and stop holding on your past glories huh? Wlad is the man right now and he's been the man since Lewis retired and that's a longer reign than Lennox Lewis ever had, longer than Mike Tyson, longer than Evander Holyfield, longer than Ali, longer than Frazier or Foreman, longer than Liston, longer than Johnson, longer than Dempsey, longer than Marciano, longer than Patterson, longer than everyone but Larry Holmes (who will soon be passed) and the GREATEST of all time Joe Louis (who IMO will ALWAYS be the greatest of All-Time).


Recognize greatness, that's all I'm saying.

Give Wlad his due and don't talk about all the other heavyweights, they had their time in the spotlight, now it's Wlad's time. And before you get all bent out of shape, Lennox Lewis was a great champion, nobody is doubting that but he's not fighting anymore so unless he wants to make a comeback it's pointless to bring him up in regards to Wladimir.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

imp....Lennox Lewis isn't walking through that door, neither is Ali or Frazier or Foreman. This heavyweight division right here right now is OWNED by Wladimir Klitschko and it's his until he decides it's time to retire so how about you come on to the 2010's and stop holding on your past glories huh? Wlad is the man right now and he's been the man since Lewis retired and that's a longer reign than Lennox Lewis ever had, longer than Mike Tyson, longer than Evander Holyfield, longer than Ali, longer than Frazier or Foreman, longer than Liston, longer than Johnson, longer than Dempsey, longer than Marciano, longer than Patterson, longer than everyone but Larry Holmes (who will soon be passed) and the GREATEST of all time Joe Louis (who IMO will ALWAYS be the greatest of All-Time).


Recognize greatness, that's all I'm saying.

Give Wlad his due and don't talk about all the other heavyweights, they had their time in the spotlight, now it's Wlad's time. And before you get all bent out of shape, Lennox Lewis was a great champion, nobody is doubting that but he's not fighting anymore so unless he wants to make a comeback it's pointless to bring him up in regards to Wladimir.

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Kabong...I completely respect that this era is dominated by Wlad.
I mentioned that on many occasions.
I am just defending lennox lewis as certain people keep bringing up the fact that IF the vitali fight wasnt stopped or IF there was rematch.
(IF my auntie had balls she"ll be my uncle!)

So Wlad is the longest current heavyweight champion in the world..ok..he deserves kudos for that.

But let me ask another question, would you agree that this era is somewhat weaker than perhaps the past eras of previous great fighters?

And if so, (now we all have hindsight) is it fair to jump great fighters from the past and discredit them (holmes, etc) against current ones who have greater physical advantages but have had it alot easier?

I was the fastest runner in my primary school until i went secondary.
The competition changed.

I still cant understand your fascination with Wlad when you clearly understand other legendary fighters like jones etc and put valid points across as to how they have achieved greatness.

It seems very lazy to just say that its because there non american that everyone dismisses them.

I have no affliation with no country, race or breed its the skill of the fighter i respect.

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

In hindsight maybe Wlad's era looks weaker, maybe it looks better we can't judge it for what it MIGHT look like because we don't know (and this is scary) if there will be better heavyweights in the years to come.


The deal with Lewis is, he got out when he knew it was his time to go. He wasn't going to wait around for Vitali to heal up. The FANS 100% of them wanted to see a rematch because let's be honest that was one hell of a show they put on, both of them!

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Originally Posted by imp

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

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Of course, I totally agree with the first part and at a certain point in his career you are right about the killer instinct but that goes back to Purrity and Brewster where he gassed out. If you look at the Wach fight Wlad threw the kitchen sink at the guy and he didn't budge....can't knock them all out. I wish he would fight guys the way he fought Ray Mercer or Ray Austin and vs Wach he did open up earlier, maybe he's finding that comfort zone. All fighters are different that way.

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Originally Posted by imp

I still cant understand your fascination with Wlad when you clearly understand other legendary fighters like jones etc and put valid points across as to how they have achieved greatness.

It seems very lazy to just say that its because there non american that everyone dismisses them.

I have no affliation with no country, race or breed its the skill of the fighter i respect.

In a way i wish there was better competition for Wlad so we can see how good he really is (but then again, with respect he lacks the killer instinct to finish off some of this batch)

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What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

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Wlad has been knocked down and gotten up to win a fight. Wlad has also been cut and needed to end a fight and done so. What the fuck kind of "test" do you want the guy to pass? Give me SPECIFICS because if you're going to judge Wlad by it then I'm going to be certain you're going to judge everyone else by it too.

I like Wlad and think he has greatly improved.

What I do not like is this recent trend of having Wlad fight people who have NO business in the ring with him. For example, Wach. Sure Wach was undefeated but look at who he fought. Almost no one worth mention. Very likely Wach could never beat Wlad no matter what BUT what they did with him is like throwing him in the deep end of the pool. Its madness.

Someone needs to endure fighters are properly groomed. Newcomers need badly to mix it up with the more expierenced fighters before even thinking about a Klitschko. Even Haye was guilty of this and of course he sank in the deep end of the pool.

This whole deal with top contenders avoiding each other in hopes of jumping to fight a Klitschko must stop because all these fighters are getting is a paycheck but slim to none chance of winning.

That's the managers and promoters issue right there. I could plan out a track for any heavyweight out there to get them a shot at Wlad or Vitali (as could most of you I imagine) but the thing is the fights aren't getting made. I told people David Haye wasn't ready and nobody believed me, they said "He's going to retire at 30" they said he "was already world class" and look at where that got him.

You've got to prepare a fighter for the size, style, power, speed, and skill of a champion like Wlad or Vitali. It's difficult but not impossible, guys like Povetkin should have had this done already but they were too busy pussyfooting around with tomato cans to mess with them.


I don't blame the Klitschko's for who they fight, who really wants to fight them? They give opportunities to damn near anyone, very few jump at the chance to fight them.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

What I've always said. You can say Wlad is the best and totally dominates this era and you'd be correct. You can also state that the division is weaker than at other times, and you'd also be correct. Finally, you can state that Wlad has never been truly tested... and you'd have a pretty good point. I don't believe in this "all-or-nothing" mentality when it comes to Wlad. You can give him his props... and you can point out some criticisms. It's the logical, non-fan way to look at Wlad.

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Wlad has been knocked down and gotten up to win a fight. Wlad has also been cut and needed to end a fight and done so. What the fuck kind of "test" do you want the guy to pass? Give me SPECIFICS because if you're going to judge Wlad by it then I'm going to be certain you're going to judge everyone else by it too.

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When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

That's the managers and promoters issue right there. I could plan out a track for any heavyweight out there to get them a shot at Wlad or Vitali (as could most of you I imagine) but the thing is the fights aren't getting made. I told people David Haye wasn't ready and nobody believed me, they said "He's going to retire at 30" they said he "was already world class" and look at where that got him.

You've got to prepare a fighter for the size, style, power, speed, and skill of a champion like Wlad or Vitali. It's difficult but not impossible, guys like Povetkin should have had this done already but they were too busy pussyfooting around with tomato cans to mess with them.


I don't blame the Klitschko's for who they fight, who really wants to fight them? They give opportunities to damn near anyone, very few jump at the chance to fight them.

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Yep, I pretty much agree with all you said. Indeed its the managers but also seems to be the culture of the heavyweight scene lately.

In theory, someone with all the right tools could jump into the ring with a Klitschko and have a chance but that is very rare and takes a very special fighter. But none of these guys is on that level and they need to get their heads out of the clouds. They must put in the work and climb the ladder. But the managers of the top 10 heavyweights need to stop being so selfish and let their fighters mix it up with these young contenders.

Experience is a valuable asset and the Klitschko brothers have racked up loads of experience.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

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#1 Sam Peter being "overrated" is erroneous. Did Wlad or didn't Wlad get up from the knockdowns to win that fight? Don't play revisionist historian don't say that you knew all along Sam Peter was a tad overhyped because it doesn't fucking matter. Wlad got knocked down, he got back up and he won.....test passed

#2 You've not defined what the "test" is. Is it going the distance vs a durable fighter? Is it winning after a cut? Is it dealing with adversity like multiple knockdowns? If the question is has a fighter ever still been dangerous in the 12 round after fighting Wlad tooth and nail it hasn't happened because they've either been beaten into a shell or ran the entire fight trying to land 1 good punch. But as soon as you define this "test" you want Wlad to pass I'll let you know if he's done it, but don't be so purposely ambiguous and vague about it. Do I want to see Wlad have a foil to his style, someone that will truly challenge him for his title? Fuck yes I do, but if that fighter is out there Wlad hasn't come across him yet. It would be great for boxing if someone would stand and fight and not either lie down or just be a heavybag, but I can't see anyone out there like that. I heard Liakhovich gave Wlad great fights in sparring but that fight never happened and now it's too late as Sergei is washed up. A rematch vs Sanders would have been nice, never happened. Wlad has done everything he can personally do to be a great fighter, he's avenged a defeat, he's gotten up from the canvas to win, he won after being cut, the argument your pressing all has to do with the opponent and not Wlad and that's the point where I get a bit frustrated. What is Wlad supposed to do? Train half assed? Fight southpaw or with a hand behind his back?

#3 It's not "all or nothing" you @TitoFan are refusing to define your own terms and THAT irritates me you may as well say "I don't like him because....just because" you make arguments like a 4 year old.

Don't get so heated

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

When Lyle? Once before the KTFO-loss triad, and then against Sam Peter??
The Sam Peter we all agree was grossly overrated and has since quietly slinked into anonymity?

How about YOU tell ME when Wlad has been fully tested by a worthy fighter?
YOU tell ME about his "Fraziers", his "Nortons" (as in Holmes-Norton).

Frankly, I'm tired of giving Wlad props that fall just a bit short of knighthood, only to have you crap all over the arguments.
I'm hardly the only one here that doesn't burn incense at the foot of Wlad's golden statue.
But I'm the only one you take issue with.
So you know what? FUCK OFF!

If it's either all or nothing with you... I'll pick nothing.
Wlad is a fukking bum.
He hasn't had an opponent yet that hasn't soiled his pants while walking to the ring.
Most of his opponents have more body fat than Shamu the killer whale.
His fights are about as exciting as an IRS audit.
He has the chin of a drugged, teenage girl.

Happy now?

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#1 Sam Peter being "overrated" is erroneous. Did Wlad or didn't Wlad get up from the knockdowns to win that fight? Don't play revisionist historian don't say that you knew all along Sam Peter was a tad overhyped because it doesn't fucking matter. Wlad got knocked down, he got back up and he won.....test passed

#2 You've not defined what the "test" is. Is it going the distance vs a durable fighter? Is it winning after a cut? Is it dealing with adversity like multiple knockdowns? If the question is has a fighter ever still been dangerous in the 12 round after fighting Wlad tooth and nail it hasn't happened because they've either been beaten into a shell or ran the entire fight trying to land 1 good punch. But as soon as you define this "test" you want Wlad to pass I'll let you know if he's done it, but don't be so purposely ambiguous and vague about it. Do I want to see Wlad have a foil to his style, someone that will truly challenge him for his title? Fuck yes I do, but if that fighter is out there Wlad hasn't come across him yet. It would be great for boxing if someone would stand and fight and not either lie down or just be a heavybag, but I can't see anyone out there like that. I heard Liakhovich gave Wlad great fights in sparring but that fight never happened and now it's too late as Sergei is washed up. A rematch vs Sanders would have been nice, never happened. Wlad has done everything he can personally do to be a great fighter, he's avenged a defeat, he's gotten up from the canvas to win, he won after being cut, the argument your pressing all has to do with the opponent and not Wlad and that's the point where I get a bit frustrated. What is Wlad supposed to do? Train half assed? Fight southpaw or with a hand behind his back?

#3 It's not "all or nothing" you @TitoFan are refusing to define your own terms and THAT irritates me you may as well say "I don't like him because....just because" you make arguments like a 4 year old.

Don't get so heated

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test 1 (thttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifst)
n.

1. A fight where the opponent actually shows up to attempt to win the fight, not survive 12 rounds without being separated from his senses.

2. A fight where said opponent is of credible quality, including punching power, boxing skills, reasonable chin, and a will to win at all costs.

3. A fight where that same opponent will throw caution to the wind when the situation warrants it, and puts winning the fight ahead of not getting punched in return.

4. A fight which, after it's over, a majority of boxing fans are saying something to the effect of: "Damn, wasn't that a good fight?!?"


That defined enough for you??
As I said, there's blind Wlad fans, such as yourself.
There's Wlad haters, who hate Wlad just "because".
And there's those of us who can see Wlad through clear glasses, not rose-colored ones.

Four-year olds lack objectivity. They cannot list the pros and cons of anything.
Feel free to continue fucking off.

:cool:

Then since you're not 4 you can tell that those things you listed are more about Wlad's opponents and not about what he has done. Wlad can't beat the guy up and then allow the guy to come back on him....see how this is more of a critique of the division than of Wlad himself?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Then since you're not 4 you can tell that those things you listed are more about Wlad's opponents and not about what he has done. Wlad can't beat the guy up and then allow the guy to come back on him....see how this is more of a critique of the division than of Wlad himself?

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Yes Lyle... but whether they're critiques of Wlad or the division itself... the end result is the same. Wlad has never truly been tested. Not to the extent that other HW greats of other eras. (See how this works?) Now... this could happen for one of two different reasons. One: Wlad is so vastly superior to any HW past or present, that the lack of competition is reflected in boring, one-sided fights. Or Two: The division is so trashy, that Wlad has no competition whatsoever. And without taking anything away from Wlad, I think it's more a function of the latter than the former. Not WLAD'S FAULT, mind you. But still a reality.

Wlad is a fair fighter in an appalling division. He has only improved as his opposition has tailed off even more. His choices of opponent are now frankly getting quite tiresome. It makes Calzaghe's run after Eubank look aweinspiring. It's easy enough to make a dozen defences if the majority are really more than a little bit shit. In other divisions people go after everyone come what may and don't have draconian contracts saying 'fight my brother, rematch with me, 2 more options on your future fights'. That is fucking cowardly and insulting. It's a surprise anyone gets in the ring with Wlad on that basis. He presents himself as a good guy, but offers slave contracts. He's a con man. He also never fought James Toney who beat Peter first time out far more convincingly than Wlad could. Wlad fighting Rahman immediately after Rahman was fucked up by Toney? Get out of here with that cherry picking. Toney was better than sodding Peter and Rahman. Ridiculous.

Wlad is fair fighter, but he is also a con artist and manipulator and will thus never go down as anything special. Watch him find some unknown who is 17-0 next. Yawn.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Wlad is a fair fighter in an appalling division. He has only improved as his opposition has tailed off even more. His choices of opponent are now frankly getting quite tiresome. It makes Calzaghe's run after Eubank look aweinspiring. It's easy enough to make a dozen defences if the majority are really more than a little bit shit. In other divisions people go after everyone come what may and don't have draconian contracts saying 'fight my brother, rematch with me, 2 more options on your future fights'. That is fucking cowardly and insulting. It's a surprise anyone gets in the ring with Wlad on that basis. He presents himself as a good guy, but offers slave contracts. He's a con man. He also never fought James Toney who beat Peter first time out far more convincingly than Wlad could. Wlad fighting Rahman immediately after Rahman was fucked up by Toney? Get out of here with that cherry picking. Toney was better than sodding Peter and Rahman. Ridiculous.

Wlad is fair fighter, but he is also a con artist and manipulator and will thus never go down as anything special. Watch him find some unknown who is 17-0 next. Yawn.

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Miles you will NOT let this go and I applaud you for it ! JFAT 4 Life.

Also have to agree that I have heard the contract negotiations with either Klitschko brother is said to be quite unfair and brutal.

But, when you are the top dog or top giraffe in this case, you call the shots.

But when you are top dog you command a majority of the purse, potentially a rematch option and that is it. Otherwise you are just destroying a division with your cuntishness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Wlad is a fair fighter in an appalling division. He has only improved as his opposition has tailed off even more. His choices of opponent are now frankly getting quite tiresome. It makes Calzaghe's run after Eubank look aweinspiring. It's easy enough to make a dozen defences if the majority are really more than a little bit shit. In other divisions people go after everyone come what may and don't have draconian contracts saying 'fight my brother, rematch with me, 2 more options on your future fights'. That is fucking cowardly and insulting. It's a surprise anyone gets in the ring with Wlad on that basis. He presents himself as a good guy, but offers slave contracts. He's a con man. He also never fought James Toney who beat Peter first time out far more convincingly than Wlad could. Wlad fighting Rahman immediately after Rahman was fucked up by Toney? Get out of here with that cherry picking. Toney was better than sodding Peter and Rahman. Ridiculous.

Wlad is fair fighter, but he is also a con artist and manipulator and will thus never go down as anything special. Watch him find some unknown who is 17-0 next. Yawn.

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The first nine words of this statement pretty much sums it up^^^^

I wasnt going to bring up james toney but im glad someone did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Wlad is a fair fighter in an appalling division. He has only improved as his opposition has tailed off even more. His choices of opponent are now frankly getting quite tiresome. It makes Calzaghe's run after Eubank look aweinspiring. It's easy enough to make a dozen defences if the majority are really more than a little bit shit. In other divisions people go after everyone come what may and don't have draconian contracts saying 'fight my brother, rematch with me, 2 more options on your future fights'. That is fucking cowardly and insulting. It's a surprise anyone gets in the ring with Wlad on that basis. He presents himself as a good guy, but offers slave contracts. He's a con man. He also never fought James Toney who beat Peter first time out far more convincingly than Wlad could. Wlad fighting Rahman immediately after Rahman was fucked up by Toney? Get out of here with that cherry picking. Toney was better than sodding Peter and Rahman. Ridiculous.

Wlad is fair fighter, but he is also a con artist and manipulator and will thus never go down as anything special. Watch him find some unknown who is 17-0 next. Yawn.

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You gonna let this one go, @El Kabong?

The fight vs Rahman was made because Vitali got injured a few times and he was supposed to fight Hasim but for being a "good sport" Wlad decided to give him a shot. James 'Two Ton' Toney got popped for steroids and Sam Peter beat him.

Like I'm going to listen to miles, he's not rational about anything. You think he just picked 17-0 out of thin air??? Kubrat Pulev : Boxer ....oh but he never fought James Toney, well I guess we'll just never know how Wlad would have hammered that fat little toad into submission.

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/by...t/RTR2R68Y.jpg

:)

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Originally Posted by imp

What you never seem to grasp is the fact that in the 3rd round lennox threw a punch so vicious it opened up vitalis face!

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VK outboxed lewis 2/1 on 11 days notice. Fight stopped on cuts. He then lingered on for eight months promising the boxing world a rematch before bowing out when the WBC were about to strip him just like the IBF did when he refused southpaw byrd. LOL. All very questionable.

Now i ask u again should we base a fighter's career on one fight? Your logic dictates that we should measure lewis by mcall! If we are to do things with such questionable elements then we should measure Ali by his lucky escape to Henry Cooper.

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This is a younger, fitter, prime vitali.
And everything he threw could not floor lennox.

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Correction VK was not even ranked and was scheduled to fight Cedric Boswell LOL. His Ring IQ increased with age just like lewis' did. Flooring an opponent is irrelevant, outboxing one or kayoing one is more pertinant.

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Vitali is a true warrior and we can all clearly see that lennox was his toughest opponent of all time that unfortunately he fell short by suffering his first and possibly last tko loss.

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Vitali Klitschko: "Sanders was the most difficult
opponent I ever fought"

Wrong again.

The facts are thus: Lewis DID say he'd give Klitschko a rematch, Vitali DID destroy Johnson (the guy Lewis was supposed to face) to 'earn' that rematch, Lewis DID retire after seeing Vitali put Johnson away. Perception and timing is everything, and when you look at the way things played out linearly, it does indeed seem clear that Lewis retired so he wouldn't have to face Vitali. If he was 100% condifent of victory, he could have whipped himself into shape one last time and came in there, put this guy away, made a cool $40M or so, and retired with no questions left unanswered. It is entirely reasonable to believe that Vitali did indeed send Lennox into retirement. It was NOT a decisive victory. It was a win, but not as decisive as some make it out to be.

If lewis did not retire he was about to be stripped of belt #2 because he did not want a fight with a prepared VK. All that is factual. Correct?

I will leave u with the late great emmanuel steward (rip):

“I told Lennox after the fight: I feel like we owe Vitali a rematch. Lennox agreed with me. Even after a year since Lennox left boxing, we talked about that fight. If Vitali and him were able to secure a rematch, it would be very intriguing.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...never-happened

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

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Lennox Lewis was the champion. Champions are supposed to be prepared to fight so don't give us the "Lewis was old and fat and out of shape" bullcrap. Also Lennox lost faaaar more money by NOT giving Vitali a rematch & Vitali deserved a rematch, but it never happened, I've moved on.


It was a great great fight, I loved every second of it just as a boxing fan. Can we not agree on that?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

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Lennox Lewis was the champion. Champions are supposed to be prepared to fight so don't give us the "Lewis was old and fat and out of shape" bullcrap. Also Lennox lost faaaar more money by NOT giving Vitali a rematch & Vitali deserved a rematch, but it never happened, I've moved on.


It was a great great fight, I loved every second of it just as a boxing fan. Can we not agree on that?

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Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

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So lewis was concerned with money then? He was offered record amounts for the rematch and wanted none of it. He couldn't face anyone other than a Vitali rematch if he continued fighting because the criticism would be too great. Nobody wants to admit it.He was about to lose belt #2. Lewis was very smart.

If he fought Kirk Johnson on that night, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have retired after. Yes or no?

VK was an unknown back then. Eleven days notice is not good enough prep to fight the linear champ? Do u disagree fenster yes or no?

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

I am such a good poster it's unreal!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

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Every Lewis fan says it. So why no rematch? It would have been PPV, both figthers could prepare 100%, no excuses, loads of money to be made. It would have been the first heavyweight fight that fans were looking forwrd to since Lewis' fight vs Tyson which was really no match at all.


sad the rematch never happened but both guys gunned for the KO, just right out of the gates big punches from both sides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

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So lewis was concerned with money then? He was offered record amounts for the rematch and wanted none of it. He couldn't face anyone other than a Vitali rematch if he continued fighting because the criticism would be too great. Nobody wants to admit it.He was about to lose belt #2. Lewis was very smart.

If he fought Kirk Johnson on that night, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have retired after. Yes or no?

VK was an unknown back then. Eleven days notice is not good enough prep to fight the linear champ? Do u disagree fenster yes or no?

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

I am such a good poster it's unreal!

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Well you're not such a good poster if you think quotes like that prove anything. Watch and weep.

Here's a quote from Manny Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"

Here's a quote from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring. "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

Where is Lewis calling out Jones or anyone else?

What a trainer wants and fighter wants are two seperate things. Just because Manny thought HIS fighter could still beat anyone out there doesn't mean Lewis wanted to carry on.

Cop that. Fact.

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Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

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He wasn't old he was a year older than Wk is now! How old were Holyfield and Tyson when they fought LL? What did Tyson weigh? LOL. Point me to this out of shape lennox because he looks in tip top condition to me:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1315592473

He wasn't going to be the weight he was at 21 was he? Besides...ppl act like an 'in shape lewis' was invincible. Did u see the mcall fight! Or the fight were an out of shape Mercer tore him up?

Quote:

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Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

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Want the Jones quote again?

Quote:

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That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

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"Will you give him a rematch?"
"If he calls for it and the money is right"

-Lennox Lewis.

He did call for it and the money was $20 million dollars six months later to fight a rematch.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.[/QUOTE]

His greatest ever moment was taking the WBC & The Ring Heavyweight title off of Lewis promoted Southpaw Corrie Sanders. Coming out of retirement and taking the WBC belt again by brutalising Peter. Destroying Hide at 24–0 to Win the WBO version. Taking apart undefeated fighter after undefeated fighter into his 40's....

George Foreman: "Vitali was winning the fight. Lewis got lucky. There has to be a rematch!"

Jim Lampley: "A lucky escape for Lewis who was clearly losing the fight"

LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Quote:

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Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

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He wasn't old he was a year older than Wk is now! How old were Holyfield and Tyson when they fought LL? What did Tyson weigh? LOL. Point me to this out of shape lennox because he looks in tip top condition to me:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1315592473

He wasn't going to be the weight he was at 21 was he? Besides...ppl act like an 'in shape lewis' was invincible. Did u see the mcall fight! Or the fight were an out of shape Mercer tore him up?

Quote:

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Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

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Want the Jones quote again?

Quote:

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That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

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"Will you give him a rematch?"
"If he calls for it and the money is right"

-Lennox Lewis.

He did call for it and the money was $20 million dollars six months later to fight a rematch.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

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His greatest ever moment was taking the WBC & The Ring Heavyweight title off of Lewis promoted Southpaw Corrie Sanders. Coming out of retirement and taking the WBC belt again by brutalising Peter. Destroying Hide at 24–0 to Win the WBO version. Taking apart undefeated fighter after undefeated fighter into his 40's....

George Foreman: "Vitali was winning the fight. Lewis got lucky. There has to be a rematch!"

Jim Lampley: "A lucky escape for Lewis who was clearly losing the fight"

LOL.[/QUOTE]

Those last few quotes about Lewis "losing" the fight are to be looked at objectively. Lewis may have been down on the cards but he sure looked like he was on his way to winning that fight.

Lewis had moments in the fight where it looked rough but he weathered the storm and regained composure.